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Ep 121: Expo 2023 Post Show Recap

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 25m·analyzed·Oct 27, 2023
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TL;DR

Expo 2023 recap: Larry DeMar interview success, Stern factory tour intel, Jersey Jack Elton John preview.

Summary

Josh Roop and Matt Scott Larson recap their experience at Pinball Expo 2023, discussing their interview with legendary code designer Larry DeMar (which generated exceptional podcast engagement), their tour of the Stern Pinball factory where they saw unreleased games including Deadpool and Falcon (Foo Fighters), and their interactions with media and industry figures including Jersey Jack Pinball's preview of Elton John. The episode covers community growth milestones (1,000 followers), venue experiences, and behind-the-scenes factory intelligence.

Key Claims

  • Larry DeMar has never done an interview outside of Tilt Forums and the Bally/Pinball 2000 documentary before the LoserKid podcast interview

    high confidence · Josh mentions Ron Hallett from Slam Tilt reached out saying 'Larry has never done an interview outside of like Tilt Forums and the Bally documentary'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball saved/revitalized the pinball industry by raising the bar on game quality and pricing, prompting Stern to improve their offerings

    medium confidence · Josh and Matt discuss: 'Jersey Jack Pinball actually saved pinball again because they raised the bar and said we're going to make an expensive machine and we're going to sell it, and then Stern said okay so we're going to make some better games'

  • Larry DeMar was instrumental in developing standard code features now ubiquitous in pinball, including extra ball mechanics and replay value adjustments

    high confidence · Josh discusses Larry's role: 'that was a feature he came up with' regarding extra balls, and notes Josh Sharp called him 'the Godfather of modern pinball code'

  • The convention center was at full capacity with back-to-back conventions during Pinball Expo 2023, creating room availability crisis

    high confidence · Josh recounts trying to check in: 'The convention center had back-to-back-to-back conventions. And Pinball Expo just happened to be in the middle of the sandwich...We have nothing available'

  • Stern factory workers do not have visibility into unreleased game details or development pipeline

    medium confidence · Josh notes: 'Even the factory workers don't know what's going on behind the scenes' after speculating about game code names

  • Pre-buying tickets at Pinball Expo saved $30 per ticket compared to buying at the door

    high confidence · Josh states: 'If you pre-bought your tickets for Pinball Expo...for some odd reason, it wasn't adding up...it actually saved you $30 a ticket for the whole weekend versus if you pre-bought'

  • LoserKid Pinball Podcast has reached 1,000 followers and is one of the longest-tenured active pinball podcasts (5 years in January)

Notable Quotes

  • “Thanks, Josh. It was fun to talk to you about bits and pieces of my career. Can't believe anyone wanted to hear me rambling for two hours about my time in pinball...The magic of Harry Williams, Bally, Midway was the enormous number of smart, talented, fun, creative, innovative people that were all under one, then two, then three roofs.”

    Larry DeMar @ early in podcast — Reflects DeMar's humble perspective on his legendary contributions and emphasizes the collaborative nature of classic pinball design teams

  • “He's like the Godfather of modern code. No one's—no one's interviewed him that I am aware of.”

    Josh Sharp @ referenced early — Establishes Larry DeMar's historical significance and rarity of his media appearances

  • “Your top tier...We know there's a hierarchy, and we know who's the top.”

    Dan Ross @ Expo conversation — Recognition of LoserKid Podcast's status within the podcasting community despite perceived self-deprecation

  • “That is the last time I share the room with two podcast hosts, because you guys know how to talk.”

    Carter Roop @ hotel room conversation — Humorous observation about the talkative nature of podcast hosts

  • “You do not take pictures. If you get caught taking pictures, you're getting kicked out.”

    Brian Eddy (tour guide) @ Stern factory tour — Emphasizes Stern's strict NDA policies during factory tours to protect unreleased game information

  • “Jersey Jack Pinball actually saved pinball again because they raised the bar and said we're going to make an expensive machine and we're going to sell it. And then Stern said oh wait, you can do that?”

    Josh Roop @ discussion of industry dynamics — Articulates the competitive pressure and market response between major manufacturers

  • “This is amazing marketing strategy like this fantastic”

    Josh Roop @ discussing Jersey Jack's media preview approach — Acknowledges effective modern marketing tactics for game previews

Entities

Josh RooppersonMatt Scott LarsonpersonLarry DeMarpersonGary SternpersonSeth DaviespersonBrian EddypersonJoel EngelberthpersonKen Cromwellperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Comprehensive coverage of Pinball Expo 2023 activities including factory tours, media mixers, game previews, and community interactions

    high · Detailed recounting of Wednesday through Friday activities, interactions with industry figures, venue logistics

  • ?

    machine_intel: Confirmed observation of Deadpool and Foo Fighters (Falcon) in production at Stern factory; other games visible but unidentifiable due to NDA restrictions

    high · Josh witnessed on factory line: 'Deadpool was on the line' and 'they were doing wiring harnesses for Falcon' which he later confirms is Foo Fighters

  • ?

    content_signal: LoserKid Podcast experienced significant growth following Larry DeMar episode, reaching 1,000 followers with exceptional engagement metrics

    high · Matt reports 'We're at 1,000 followers now...I have never received so much mail about an episode' and notes exponential growth; gained 65 followers overnight after episode release

  • ?

    community_signal: Discussion of active pinball podcasts and their relative longevity; LoserKid positioned among longest-tenured with Slam Tilt, This Week in Pinball, and others

    medium · Josh catalogs active and defunct podcasts: 'Slam Tilt, This Week in Pinball...Pinball Show...Eclectic Gamers...Final Round Pinball, Pinball Podcast with Jeff Rivera'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Seth Davies confirmed as new president of Stern Pinball, appearing on factory tour alongside Gary Stern

    high · Josh describes Stern factory tour attendees: 'There was Gary Stern, Sam Stern, Seth Davies, the new president'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.256

0:00
thanks for tuning in to loser kid pinball podcast this is episode 121 i am josh roop with me my co-captain almost always scott larson almost always okay money was a different deal we'll get into that we'll get into that but before we get into the shenanigans scott i know you want that labyrinth i know you want that elton john who you calling if you're getting these games I'm going to call flipping out pinball. They hooked me up with my pinball alley sign and also my pinball pop cap bumper sign. Yes. And that's who I bought all my stuff through. Actually, so in addition to Elton John, in addition to Labyrinth, I was really tempted to pull the trigger on a home – like a home pin version of Star Wars. Oh, yeah? They had a great deal on one. So seriously, they have deals coming up all the time. So go ahead and check them out and reach out. If there's something you're looking for, they may be able to find it for you. Definitely.
1:04
And Zach's always got great inventory. If you ever want to know what his inventory is, hit up their Facebook page. They seem to keep it pretty updated. Scott, it's been like two weeks since we've recorded. Yeah, but you kind of surprised us. You were able to sneak in an extra recording. Let's talk about that. All right. So let's talk about the Larry DeMar episode, because this is what everyone's ranting and raving about. Right. I have not received so much mail about an episode that I have with Larry and the Larry episode's only been out, what, four days at this point? We're recording on Thursday night because because it's like a unicorn, because people most people don't even know about Larry DeMar outside of the industry. and and so this is uh he he really like you said sorry i'm stumbling a little bit you're good that you've been you've been working this angle because uh we got the reference from josh sharp because we were asking hey who should we have on like what what type of guests should we be looking for and josh recommended him and he said he's like the godfather of modern code no one's no one's interviewed him that I am aware of. And so we've been working on him and he, he legitimately sounds like he works all the time. Yes, he really does. And I thought he was kind of blowing me off, but I think he's, I think he's just legitimately that busy. Yeah. He's really that busy. That's, and I just had an epiphany that like, Hey, I'm going to be in Chicago. I know he lives in Chicago. Maybe I can convince him to come on. And that's why I was excited when he, he said, yeah let's do it at expo on that thursday and then then he he messaged me on that monday like my wife has had covid uh i haven't received i haven't gotten it yet so i was really nervous it still wasn't going to happen but the the cards played right and saturday night i was i was recording with larry and uh ron hallett a slam tilt reached out and said congratulations this is amazing you know larry has never done an interview outside of like tilt the battle which is the pinball 2000 documentary if you ever watch the super sad uh the end of pinball documentary well no i'm sorry that's uh that's special one that's special one but they're both kind of sad yeah they are but he was in that and i was nervous he if you watch that documentary larry is uh it's only been like five years since william had closed when they did that and so and he was a higher up ones are still fresh yeah the wounds are still fresh at that point And so, anywho, long story short, I mean, we've received so much mail. Larry, right before we started recording this episode, he sent a message. Thanks, Josh. It was fun to talk to you about bits and pieces of my career. Can't believe anyone wanted to hear me rambling for two hours about my time in pinball. Reviewing this episode, I'm a little sad to see I only mentioned a small number of amazing people I had the opportunity to work with on making many games over the years. The magic of Williams Ballet Midway was the enormous number of smart, talented, fun, creative, innovative people that were all under one, then two, then three roofs. For those of you that I miss, you know I'm thinking you're amazing. I think you're amazing. And you were all a big part of the success of this company. That this man, that's why I felt like looking at Larry DeMar, looking at the history of Williams. And I say it multiple times. he has too many hands in the biggest hits of williams right in bally for it to be a coincidence right i mean starting off starting off with a fluke yeah it's not it's not i mean black knight space shuttle uh fun house bonsai run world cup soccer which is my personal thing that's what got me into pinball you know adam's family twilight zone all these games are the some of the biggest selling numbers and to listen to him talk about like extra ball that was a feature he came up with and you know the replay values increasing because they were talking about like replays were kind of killing right you'd have an elite player who'd play all day on like one coin drop yeah and so that's why that's why the replay values go up and just some of the little stuff this is now why i understand that josh arp was calling him the godfather of modern pinball code because yeah A lot of the stuff that is just commonplace in code today since the 90s is because of him. Yeah, because of him. And so it was amazing. And like I said, we've had so much feedback. We've had people – I don't remember people ever being like, you need to listen to this episode. And people are making public posts of, you need to go listen to this. The Spirulina is a lit podcast. Thanks for giving us a shout out. Just people are – I have a feeling this is going to be one of our biggest listen to episodes. I think as it sits right now. It is because it's unique. It's information that you can't get elsewhere. I mean, there's a lot of stuff we talk about that other podcasts cover. Yeah. But this is something that is – it's historical. It gives perspective.

high confidence · Matt: 'We're at 1,000 followers now...we've been recording...over four years now? Five years in January'

  • Falcon is the code name for Foo Fighters pinball game, named after Taylor Hawkins

    high confidence · Josh clarifies confusion: 'No, it is Foo Fighters. Falcon. Named after Taylor. His last name was Hawkins, if I remember correctly'

    • Zach Sharpe
    person
    Dwight Sullivanperson
    Jack Dangerperson
    Ericaperson
    Jen Ruperperson
    Eric Meniereperson
    Ron Hallettperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Pinball Expoevent
    Elton Johngame
    Deadpoolgame
    Labyrinthgame
    Foo Fightersgame
    Elvira's House of Horrors Premium Editiongame
    LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Interiumvenue
  • $

    market_signal: Pinball Expo used dynamic pricing strategy with $30 discount for advance ticket purchases vs. door sales

    high · Josh calculates: 'it actually saved you $30 a ticket for the whole weekend versus if you pre-bought'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Jersey Jack Pinball's Elton John features linked ramp modes (Crocodile and Rocketman Multiball) that trigger enhanced multiball when both are started sequentially

    high · Josh explains: 'There's Crocodile ramp or mode, and there's Rocketman Multiball. And they're tied them together. If you start one and then start the other, it starts Crocketman Multiball, where Crocodile is riding around on rockets'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Larry DeMar's contributions to code design standardization (extra balls, replay value mechanics) established foundational patterns still in use in modern pinball

    high · Josh discusses DeMar's innovations: 'that was a feature he came up with' regarding extra ball mechanics and replay adjustments that became standard industry practices

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball's premium pricing strategy forced market competitor Stern to elevate game quality and production values

    medium · Josh and Matt discuss: 'Jersey Jack Pinball actually saved pinball again because they raised the bar...and then Stern said okay, so we're going to make some better games'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Interium arcade venue near Pinball Expo maintained high-quality machines and offered complimentary unlimited play cards during pre-Expo media events

    high · Josh praises: 'those are well-maintained machines' and notes Interium provided 'unlimited free play for two hours' with food service

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Stern Pinball enforces strict photography bans during factory tours and employs compartmentalized information control to prevent leaks of unreleased game details

    high · Tour guide Brian Eddy instructed: 'You do not take pictures. If you get caught taking pictures, you're getting kicked out' and Josh observes 'Even the factory workers don't know what's going on behind the scenes'

    • 6:07
    He reinforced what I have said, and I know you have felt this way too, that JJP actually saved pinball again because they raised the bar and said, hey we're going to make an expensive machine and we're going to sell it and stern said oh wait you can do that okay so we're we're going to make some some better games and then then they just you know the the jets came out and they just flew i'd love to that he was very he wasn't reserved in a lot of his comments talking about the perfectionism mixed or marred with the insecurities of sure designers okay but i think that's with a lot of really creative people yeah and the hardest thing in anything is to follow up hits with another big hit like it's the easiest job in the world is to go out there when you have nothing to lose yeah that's true but when you are a a high production talent you have a history of hits i mean it's hard it's it's hard because if every single game you're releasing out out does the last one what are you having on the next you know that's why i'm kind of excited about what's coming up in the fall because it's uh every game has gotten better it's very true yeah so there was a lot of information if you haven't checked out the episode heck pause this one and go listen to it and then come back yeah it's an amazing episode if heck pause this episode go listen to it again if you've already listened to it there was a lot of information there that was all great yeah and like i said i was very honored that larry was the one that picked our podcast because he said he's been approached by numerous podcasts and he just turns them all down well i just think he does i legitimately i just don't think he has the time like he's he's a workaholic and you just got him at the moment when he is when he was at a location that he wasn't committed something else um i think also we connected on a personal level on some other stuff that i'm not going to discuss because it's personal um but yeah i think i think once i think that's the problem like sometimes when people reach out they're just reaching out like in behalf of right it was a pinball podcast um when you start to get to know the person behind that then you're like oh i kind of want to do this because i know the person now right small tidbit to those that may be listening that are doing podcasts so uh yeah so it was it was great but um okay so uh with that episode and some other ones you have some news that you told me yes so are you talking about we're at 1 000 followers now 1 000 followers ladies and gentlemen crazy uh i have never invited anyone to like our podcast and for some reason like why have i never done that as soon as i invited all my friends yeah it's really funny to look through the list like they don't like they've never liked it they've never wait what yeah uh i'm not going to call anyone out but it it's pretty funny but yeah we gained about 65 followers overnight and it's just exponentially exponentially growing and facebook has given us some kind of like tier three something or other yeah i don't know so it's been fun and by the way we we appreciate that this is a ride that we've been on for what over four years now five years in january Yeah, five years in January. And this really was kind of an avenue for us to talk about pinball together. And it does mean a lot to me, and I know it means a lot to Josh, that it has connected with many people on that level where you're invited to be like the silent third chair, where you're either shaking your head at what we're saying or you're nodding along. But either way, you're included. the one thing I do appreciate because we had plenty of people come up and say hello at Expo and how much they love our show and the appreciation they have for it the people that I met this weekend that really like our show were people I seemed like we would hang out with so it's kind of nice we attract the people that we want to be around too yeah welcome to the low drama club yep and you all seem awesome people and low drama So you're welcome to hang out with us anytime. The other funny part. Okay. So I met Dan Ross and seeing in person. Yep. Now as a pinball podcaster, he, before, uh, last year he brought his daughter with like a side. I didn't meet him last year though. I met his daughter cause Amanda brought his daughter by and we signed her like yearbook thing, her expo book. Yep. And, uh, you know, it was just a fun way of getting to know, know her, but I never, I never met Dan last year. So I mean, Good for him on getting his homebrew thing going up.
    11:04
    So this ties into – it's really funny because we got pulled aside by Jersey Jack. And they said, we're doing a big media – so this is Wednesday night. We're doing a big media press on Thursday – sorry. Yes, Thursday morning. No, no, no. Sorry. I apologize. This was Thursday night. we're doing a big push on friday morning but we're inviting you and joel with flipping out and a couple others to preview the game before anyone else we want you to come record some stuff we want you to show it off and so i was like sweet you know so we got in this room it was just us a handful of other people that were more excited about the free drinks jersey jack was getting out the game so joel and i spent some a good amount of time on elma john that night yeah and so i got topper footage which i guess i was the one that really get topper footage that was cool like i i love seeing those yep and then uh we got some good footage of the game itself but it was funny because we were uh we went to dinner later that night with dan and we were talking about like we were going to this experience or whatever and dan's like just proves you guys are tier one podcasters and i'm like a tier three or not or lower i was like dad no and he's like we're all on the same tier we're all we're all top tier my friend that's what exactly what i said your top tier yeah that's why he's like your top tier he's like we we know there's a hierarchy and we know who's the top okay in fairness we we have been recording we're one of the longest tenured podcast right now yeah up there with slam tilt yeah and uh i'm trying to think who else is out there i don't think because when we started we were like okay well it's slightly crowded we'll just see what we do and then immediately like after we started like four of them said okay peace out pinball show that's another one tenured eclectic gamers yep um yeah there's a pinball show started after us well i'm including this week in pinball because they did okay all right still the same shenanigans just different name you know okay well it's like actually okay but then that tls and marty final round i mean heard they uh went curtains on their last episode that's terrible and i'm moving past that but uh pinball pinball podcast with jeff rivera and jessica dinardo they actually just released an episode last week so are they still going i mean does that still technically they seem to be like pop-ups for me like they uh i'm like oh they so i'll go go check them out but uh i i've always appreciated jeff because uh he uh i started listening to his podcast when i started getting into pinball yeah and i made the connection that he was just uh about you know 40 miles north to me it's it's really funny because i was i felt awkward getting into podcasting because we already had jeff in utah right and i was afraid we'd be stepping on his toes yeah jeff he's already listened to him and jeff didn't care like more people the merrier yeah uh i've got some great stories about him but those are for a different time but yeah so there was a lot of i hung out with joel i joel is freaking amazing if you don't know joel engelberth okay Don't tell him that because he already is like one of the nicest guys in the world and he'll just get a bigger head. So he's one of my three favorite people in the triple drain podcast. He is one of my three favorite people. So it was great to hang out with Travis and Tom. Travis was only there till like Thursday night because they had to buy a house. You know, adult things. And Tom was Tom's a beast at streaming. when they post on Fox cities, it was like a cumulative, like 468 hours in the last 28 days or something. Yeah. I have no idea how, like that. No one wants, first off, no one wants to watch me play pinball that long. And so that's always impressive that, that they've been able to do that because it is fun watching high quality players play pinball. Cause you can see what you can possibly do.
    15:22
    So I guess I'm kind of jumping around. Should I just start at the top? Yes, some of the top. Okay, got there Wednesday. Carter and I, my son Carter went with me.
    15:31
    We got there. How old's Carter? Carter is going to be 13 December. He is mildly decent at pinball. He enjoys it.
    15:40
    So I was like, this could be a fun bonding experience. Out of all the things I remembered to do when I shifted from going in on Thursday, because fall break for us started on Wednesday, so the kids had no school. So I figured I'd go an extra day and take him downtown for one of the days. I forgot to bump my hotel up one more day. Ah. So I got in. I tried to check in. I figured I'd do it nonchalantly. I'd be like, oh, I'll just take my room today. It's not a big deal. No, the convention center had back-to-back-to-back conventions. And Pinball Expo just happened to be in the middle of the sandwich. And so they're like, we have nothing available. And I was like, you don't have a room available? They're like, no, we have nothing available. and mind you this is 15 floors of like 100 rooms yeah this is a lot of rooms yeah it's ridiculous um and I can't remember who I ran into but they're like Don's got a room from Don's pinball podcast uh and I think it's just him I want to say it may have been Brian Cosner whoever it is I apologize Don and his pinball machine that he travels with you know and so Don's like yeah you and your son can come stay here so Don was very generous like total shout out to Don the funny part though is is my son Carter, he's like, that is the last time I share the room with two podcast hosts because you guys know how to talk. It was like two in the morning when we finally went to bed. Oh, see, yeah. The difference is if you and I were sharing a room and Carter was there, it'd be like, okay, I power down at 10 o'clock. My energy is just gone because I get up early. so uh we got up about eight o'clock on thursday morning because that's when we could check in at our hotel i went and checked in they were nice enough to take my bags and and hide them behind the counter and they said as soon as your room's ready we'll let you in but it didn't matter to me at that point because the stern tour was happening so hopped on the bus uh we zipped down to stern as soon as we got there joel julie craig bobby were all kind of in the front of the line don joined with us we kind of all we all kind of got bumped to the front of the line and i yeah i'm not going to apologize but the first thing you do is when you walk in it was like a four-year area there was gary stern seth davies the new president and our tour guide was brian eddie aka medieval madness attack oh nice stranger things so it was really cool to be hanging out with him and they were very much like you do not take pictures if you get caught taking pictures you're getting kicked out you can take some pictures at the beginning of the tour at the end of the tour but that is it I didn't take any pictures during the tour I swear I didn't so tell me what the next five releases are it was I'm not going to get into that because I'll get in trouble but it was awesome it was awesome to see them moving games it was very it was weird because the office space was dead there was no one in there was no one in their cubicles in the factory it was hopping there was people moving it was funny because what was on the line uh deadpool was on the line was one of them um they were doing wiring harnesses for falcon do you know what the the code name falcon is for because everyone's like That's the next game. No, it's not. It already came out. Okay.
    19:12
    Hmm. Rush? No, it is Foo Fighters. Falcon. Named after Taylor. His last name was Hawkins, if I remember correctly. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay. So that was Falcon. People saw Waffles and was like, well, that's got to be the next game. Do you know what Waffles is?
    19:37
    um let me think okay i'm just going back so there's you know there's godzilla rush venom um farther back it's farther back they just re-released it like a month ago oh stranger things yep so which makes sense because i've never watched the show i need to watch the show i've never watched the show um there was if they named it bloody nose then i would have known Jaws was also there Jurassic Park it was funny because you've got people just pointing out and speculating and there was nothing out there of course not they have the proprietary stuff locked down even the factory workers don't know what's going on behind the scenes they did have the new Elvira at the end of the tour Blood Red Kiss beautiful game in person this one i've i've seen the 40th i've seen the original edition i've seen i've now seen this one i would say the art if you want something cabinet wise that really stands out sure this one stands out the best out of all of them in my opinion well because this this also takes a little bit of a hint from centaur right yeah it's kind of like the black white and red look. Yeah, it's very, and then the playfield's black and white, but the inserts are still their respective colors for the game. So there's still a lot of color on the playfield, but it is black and white for the most part So really beautiful game They didn have it turned on i you couldn play it really uh well okay the problem with elvira though is every time i gone to play it at a show yeah there's always some junior up there who's trying to like gc it for an hour and a half and it's like no you're at a show dude just like set a mental time like 10 minutes okay i've got i'm walking away but it's uh so i i stood in line one time for like 25 minutes and i just i just moved on yeah oh i forgot to mention sorry rewind to the night before backwards if if you got a pre-order or sorry if you pre-bought your tickets for expo there was uh a get together at interium which was not too far from the hotel the cool part though is and i they never mentioned this in may they did and I just didn't notice it when you're buying your ticket.
    22:06
    I did the math, and for some odd reason, it wasn't adding up. If you bought tickets at Expo, it actually saved you $30 a ticket for the whole weekend versus if you pre-bought. I was like, that makes no sense.
    22:17
    Well, come to find out, the night before, we're hanging out with Stern employees. You've got Jack Danger. You've got Dwight. They're also doing the Stern Pro Circuit there, so extra less cost blowing it up. um but the arcade was available and the interesting part is they gave everyone a swipe card for interium which gave you unlimited free play for two hours wow okay that's very yeah and and those are well-maintained machines yes and they provided food for everyone that came yeah and so and it was like slider like cheeseburger sliders fried macaroni cheese balls uh deep fried raviolis I mean, the food was amazing. It was delicious. So that in itself was worth the extra $30.
    23:04
    So Carter loved it. I mean, give a kid an unlimited – the only game it didn't work on – so it didn't work on the ticket games, the ticket redemption games. So you can win a bunch of stuff off of those.
    23:17
    Sorry. One of my games must be updating. That's the beeping noise. And then it didn't work on – they had a King Kong down there, but it's $10 a game. okay king kong is like hercules though right uh no so king kong the virtual reality oh the vr one okay yeah you put it on you sit in the thing it's like a roller coaster it moves you while you're playing you the gloves react and stuff like that no i i we did play that at um texas last year no was it expo or texas no it was expo last year okay oh that's right you're right because i i I wasn't able to go to Texas this year. But totally awesome. The other interesting part, man, I shouldn't be saying this on air. If you didn't use your Interium card, it's still good for the two hours. So you didn't have to use it for Wednesday night. He went back Thursday night for the Media Mixer and some people hadn't used the card and they gave one to Carter again. So he got to play another two hours at the arcade. Okay, that's like a kid's dream. I never got that as a kid. You had like five bucks and the reason, And you spent like an hour and 55 minutes watching everyone else play because you were going to gently roll out those quarters because you didn't want to blow it all.
    24:34
    So, rewind, I guess going back to where we were. Stern Tour gets over. Went with Joel. Went with Julie. We went with Craig Bobby. We went to Portillo's. I convinced him. I know it was like 11 o'clock in the morning, 1030 in the morning.
    24:47
    I'm like, let's go get Italian beef because it's right there. and so we went and had that which was amazing uh that's one of the highlights is is the food right i think i need to eat like a bottle of tums before i go there next time and then we got back to expo we explored expo there was a lot going on uh if you're gonna play some of these games like labyrinth or elton john wasn't out at this point but like get them in on thursday if you can because the lines just get worse and worse yes so thursday we explored expo we had fun with it Joel and I went to our VIP, they were calling it a VIP meeting for Elton John. And I even made sure as I was walking in the people letting us in, I'm like, so you're letting us record this stuff and post it. I'm like, I'm not getting my butt kicked and kicked out of here because of this.
    25:40
    Well, and you want to be respectful, especially if it's an invite thing. It's like the Stern Tour. You want to be respectful. So if they show up and they say hey these is the areas you can't take pictures then that then you respect that sorry before the media mixer or before the vip event we went to the media mixer which was all calling with kinetesis like shout out to him and his wife and them bringing their baby like straight up wow baby uh they they're they're champs and they put together this giant media mixer for all the media people to get together to meet each other and talk and just talk pinball and talk and it was great there was people uh shout out to erica from erica's pinball journey if you haven't checked out our youtube go check it out she's a uh she's doing direct toil work and stuff like that she's posted some of it on youtube it's fantastic it looks great um she was really nice uh came up we talked for a while uh ran in jen ruper jen is awesome jen's always fun yeah um you know zach manny was there uh it's there were so many people i can't i need to stop naming names because like larry demar said you're gonna have a couple but you're gonna forget so i'm gonna forget so if i forgot you do know that you're loved and and i i yeah and so media mixer went great uh they gave away prizes so if you showed up to the media mixer you got to sign your name on a raffle ticket and they put it in the box right and i should not take my son because he was winning everything right he won a shirt from jersey jack which funny part eric meniere from jersey jack was at the media mixer and he won and guess what he won woohoo i know i know he won a hat from jersey jack did he take off the one he was wearing and put the new one on someone traded him a spooky one He wore the spooky instead of the Jersey Jack. Everyone was laughing. The prizes were unreal for the media mixer. The Jersey Jack was very generous in supplying stuff for that. It was amazing. We went to the VIP event, enjoyed the VIP event. Afterwards, we were up so late the night before that I think I just went and crashed. I think it was like 10.30. I was like, I'm going to bed.
    27:58
    No, I caught up with the Triple Game guys. So I went to go to bed and I got a message because I kept getting messages all day from people that had pre-ordered hats.
    28:09
    And I needed to get Travis his hat before he left on. Oh, that's right. They were leaving first thing on Friday. So like, we're down in the lobby right now. And I was like, okay, perfect. So Carter had already passed out and I went down there and gave him their hats and we hung out and talked and it was great. Like seriously, like the triple drain guys are, they've got to be like brothers from another mother for us. We just, these guys are amazing. If you haven't been listening to their podcast, really turn them out. They're also pretty good at pinball. Even Joel, even Joel is, but don't tell them that. But the thing I love about them is they're very genuine.
    28:44
    We were kind of talking about this before podcasts, like they are people obviously we would hang out with and you can tell that from their podcasts. They're just, they're great people. Yeah. and so yeah so and then Friday rolled around I'm trying to think what we did on Friday we did we kind of hit more of so Jersey Jack invited everyone from the media mixer the night before to do just kind of a media only play Elton John which shout out to Ken Cromwell this is amazing marketing strategy like this fantastic the night before Eric had told me about something in Elton John which I really wanted to get to. So there's Crocodile Rock Multiball, and there's Rocketman Multiball. And they've tied them together. If you start one and then start the other, it starts Crocketman Multiball, where Crocodile is riding around on rockets. And I was able to do it, the media thing, the next morning, and I thought I had it recorded. I don't know who was holding my camera. You got a great shot at the back of your head, though. Yeah, I've got a great shot at my back.
    29:51
    but it, it was great. I've got to say, let's, let's talk out in John really quick. Yeah. Uh, should we do elephants in the room first or we should talk about everything? It's great about it. I say let's do negatives and then we land on the, okay. Okay. So I'll, I'll take this one because we talked about this before. Um, I have always said that, uh, in everybody's marketing strategy is different. Okay. And I, I've tried to emphasize to everybody, not every machine is for every buyer. I'm solidly between like the premium LE, like kind of the stern premium LE prices. But for the most part, I'm kind of in the premium. That's the happy zone I've been in since the prices have escalated. They've gotten a little more uncomfortable for me to get the high end. So this is the challenge. This looks like an awesome game, but they are going to sell less than they would if the price were lower. And that's just a basic for me. They did come down a little bit on the price from what their last release was. But it still feels a little high to me.
    31:14
    But that's my only... Now, I can say that as a fan because who doesn't want to pay less for like a sports car, right? Like, you know, and so there's nothing new about that. And you are competing with Stern, who sells the most machines, and your price point for a comparable – it's no longer the limited edition. Now it's the platinum edition. and so what you would the models that compared to that would be like the premium so you're paying basically twenty five hundred dollars more for a jersey jack comparable so you need to decide for yourself if the machine is 25 to 30 percent better than what you can get with a stern premium that that's the only, that's how you do it. Yeah. That's how I do it. That's you. Yeah. If I had $13,000 in my pocket, would I buy Elton John or would I buy? And right now let's go with apples to apples. Their latest release is Venom. So then I'm premium. What I get a Venom premium or what to get an old John.
    32:30
    Uh, I think I like Elton John better, but is it that much more? Only you can decide that. So that's the elephant in the room, and I'm not sharing anything that all of you all haven't thought. So the other elephant that you haven't touched on is this is a Steve Ritchie reused layout. It's true. And everyone has talked about that. Like it is Steve Ritchie.
    32:58
    Led Zeppelin did this one. Star Trek did this one. This looks like Star Trek. Like Spider-Man 3.0. because yeah your trek is spider-man 2.0 so this it feels very similar now that's not saying it's the same but the flow pattern is similar now i love spider-man yeah and i love star trek so this has a very similar feel and so that would be great and elton john music is great music yep um all that aside yeah i still think this is a fantastic shooter sure like so now let's talk about the positives so yeah you know price price out the window let's talk about like how did you feel playing the game i love the game yeah it was fun to shoot i don't i i don't even know if there was modes like i was so into just jamming on this game um i know there were certain things you were trying to achieve but i i was so after eric told me about crocket man i needed to see crocket man and and that was no easy feat um i did like that he brought back you know in star trek next generation where you kind of choose what your award is on the plunge uh it's like that on this you can choose between like a ball lock for crocodile multi-ball rocket man fuel uh and then i can't remember the other three works i just didn't go for like big points was one which i always thought was a joke like big points uh anyway um the game shot really well the flippers these are by far the best flipper like filling flippers out of all of all the jersey jack games okay and and that's because the the analysis mostly on jersey jack games is the flippers don't feel quite as springy as stern ones yep and this feels amazing the other really interesting part about this layout is none of the shots are safe at least like in star trek like it comes back to your left flipper via the in lane right no like every shot you shoot it does come back at your flipper but it's not safely to the flipper via an in lane so you're gonna have to have a little bit of flipper skill it's still a long player uh if if you can get those flipper skills down if you trust your dead bounce um the game straight up the middle looks like a death shot though like the drop targets not not terribly because the drop target slows down the ball okay and gives you an opportunity to react so it's not as bad as i not like attack not like attack from mars because i know you have to be very careful shooting that one yep if you're comfortable with attack from mars okay or semi-comfortable you'll be comfortable it is slightly angled which means it ricochets a little bit to the left yep um i thought the piano mech was cool elton john's moving his head back and forth his hands are shaken looking like he's playing the piano the balls lock inside the piano once you get three in there it drops them out um i thought that was that was a cool idea um like i said i just overall i'm not okay i'm not an elton john fan like i just i know his songs it's just not it's not me the thing i'm impressed with this game really felt like it was rocking like our biggest concern we've talked about for months now it's like elton john songs aren't really like where's the ripping songs yeah yeah and it felt like this was ripping the whole time the light show was great for pinball wizard um there's every song i played i really enjoyed um but like like i said okay so let's talk about the songs too then so yeah and you did bring that up it feels rocking so uh rocket man yeah it's not it's not a jammer but it's good tiny dancer okay benny and the jets yeah i'm goodbye so the funny thing is none of these songs sound like high tempo which is what you expect from pinball you have the bitch is back it's a fast one crocodile rock actually my favorite elton john song um i'm still standing's good pinball wizard is a saturday night so those are the those five are ripping your song definitely not one uh i don't know take me to the pilot maybe i don't know that i don't remember hearing that one either okay philadelphia freedom that's kind of a that's more upbeat um leave on not fast honky cat yeah so i would say about half of them are ripping songs half of them are would probably be in the ballad category right yep but i don't know if it's the flow of steve i don't know if it was kind of the speed of it but they all worked and it was very good if i found an elton john on location i would pump a good amount of quarters into it oh i would i i'm i'm gonna seek this out i am not yeah um i am full i i do not have space and i don't want to sell one right now so i'm not going to buy a nilton john but i really really hope someone close buys one and puts it on location or has it in their house because i would love i would love to experience it in someone's house because i want to hear the full experience yeah uh like i said it it really is a great game i think if you're an elton john fan you're looking at pulling the trigger on this game do it you will be happy with this yeah do it uh if it's in your price range that's the problem too is like it's just it's not my price range yeah i guess i would be i i wish they would make specifically an operator edition like a pro edition you mean yeah like go back to the standard or something like that the the challenge they're going for a different they're going for more of a boutique pinball company where they're not gonna they're not gonna recoup their money on volume they're going to recoup it by having a premium product with a premium price i mean it's basically the lexus you know the the you know the lexus mercedes strategy well but that brings me to my next question though like is that why why did we change it from limited edition to platinum is it so we don't have to claim there's a limited edition number because well as it should it used to be 5,000 limited and 500 collectors now the platinums aren't numbered yeah and the collectors are to a thousand now well okay i actually think this is better though because stern's highest uh highest level was limited edition so it was a little confusing okay because when you're saying and to be fair what they're trying to do is compete and say hey our limited edition which is basically their premium edition is the same level of bling that stern's limited edition is which that is basically the same price range yep and if you want like the extra like you know the the eye candy of the presentation then go for the collector's edition so i do like that they have changed the terminology yeah because it makes it a little more um individual and i actually i okay i will say if i were to buy one i would get i would get the plat i i think the platinum edition is more my style um the collector's edition looks a little bit like liberace yeah like it's it's very flamboyant colored but it still looks fantastic i'm just talking like personal preference on the color pat the color package i wish i could have the platinum package with the christopher franchi art and that topper from the collector's topper looks really cool so so describe the top you said you got video of it but describe the topper so it's like a laser etched picture of elton john's face in the dodger hat is in the is in the top middle and right below that is like uh a dome that feeds kind of i want to say laser lights but they weren't they were saying it wasn't lasers i can't remember exactly i apologize they ran so much information through us at that point but it projects onto the ceiling a bunch of elton john stuff there was like you know elton john and The interesting part is they said they actually hadn't coded in the topper into the game. So it was just randomly kind of playing with the game.
    41:26
    So they said that they were going to fix that code. But on either side, on both sides of the sketch, Elton John, there was those iPad-sized screens that they put in Toy Story. They must have extra ones or something. They put that on either side of the topper, and it was doing footage. Oh, I see that now. I did not see that is cool. Yeah. And so this topper is top notch. That is cool. On the collector's edition. Ooh, only the collector's edition. Yeah. That would make me kind of want that. Um, that's why I'm like, I want that topper on the platinum. Yeah. That's just, that's what it is. Well, Hey, if you want to pay for the bling. So how much was the collector's edition? 15,000. Okay. So not really much different. Like it's 2000. Well, okay. 3000 more. So the Platinum Edition is 12,000, the Collector's Edition is 15,000. But the summary, what I'm taking from it is if you're a Nelton John fan and it's in your price range, then you are going to be happy with this machine. Yes I think you be very happy with this machine And I I am on board with that That is uh okay I paid I bought rushes Ellie because I a rush fan Okay. You're not a rush fan. Like, like the, the band. Yeah. So there's no reason for you to have paid for the Ellie. Like you would have just got the premium. So this is, this is that situation where you ask yourself, okay, how big of a Milton John fan am I? And it, It will be a fantastic shooting game, and I guarantee it will sound good. Yep. So the thing I like most about this is this is the first time that they have taken an artist that's not considered like a party rock artist. Yeah. Right? And I guess Rush isn't a party rock artist, but you know what I mean. Like that 70s, 80s. That 70s, like the jam and feel. Rock metal. Yeah. The jamming field. This has like half of the songs are jammers. Half of them are ballads. But I guarantee if – now, we know the demographic in pinball is heavily male-dominated, right? Based on our statistics, 80 to 20. Yeah. So, okay. That's – just an eyeball will probably tell you something like that. Yeah, that's pretty cool. This is the first game that's not geared exclusively toward dudes who grew up in the 80s. Yeah. And this is something that I guarantee if you have a Foo Fighters and you have a Elton John and you go in there with your significant other and your significant other – there's a good chance if they are not a pinball person, male or female. No, there's a good chance they're going to go to Elton John first. Yeah.
    44:28
    Everyone that played it loved it. It really is. It's a good game. Good for Steve, right? And then after the media push was done, Labyrinth was very close. So Carter and I went and got in line, and Don and Brian Cosner were very nice enough to let us get us cut in line to the front. I apologize again to those that have been standing in line So I got some video of that Which I can't remember If I've posted yet or not But this game for a first outing From a pinball company That no one knew about Pretty impressive Shot really good Flippers were strong They didn't feel mushy The game feels very straightforward It's you know So it's a typical pinball layout. You shoot the left. There's a left orbit. There's a left ramp. There's a bash target slash something up the middle with a little horseshoe that goes around that with a right ramp. And then obviously the left orbit comes out on the right orbit. And there was some stuff further down left. But what the play field did that you weren't expecting is there's diverters built into the play field. And it does just little nuanced things. like if you shoot the right orbit i can't remember exactly how it works but it will come back to left orbit but a diverter will pop up and push it behind the ramp the left ramp and then the left ramp will actually open and it'll shoot it at you or it'll hold on to it as a locked ball um one of the other cool features was i can't remember exactly where it was on the playfield but if you shot it it would bring up forks and capture the ball so all of a sudden that spot became an actual capture ball okay and then you could hit it and it would hit through a spinners it was just really good kinetic satisfaction um the interesting part so if you haven't listened to the aussie pinball podcast they go a lot more in depth in this kind of everything that they've built up to this point let them tell their story uh go check it out but the other cool part was is so if you remember on wizard of oz the monkey like there's a monkey mech in the back that captured the ball and takes it So it sounded like they wanted to do something similar with the Muppets zipping back and forth on that spot. When they got into it, they learned that those screens were a heck of a lot cheaper than making mechanical Muppets. Oh, yeah. And so it was like a third the price or less. This is all in that podcast. And so they just put the screen back there. And that screen is actually pretty awesome. It was easy to get quick info without feeling I'm losing the ball. I felt like I could keep track of where the ball was going. Gameplay, great. I think if you're a Labyrinth fan, which I don't know if you can – I know they're still selling these. My understanding is – I talked to one distributor on Friday, and they said that they have sold so many Labyrinths that it actually scares them because they're taking a lot of allotment on this because they've just sold that many. They did not expect for this game to be the way it was.
    47:38
    They love it because it's money in the bank, right? Right, but – But it's a new company. Yeah. It's a new company, and it's – now, okay, so who's David Van Ness? David? Yeah, he's the guy of the company, right? And so people are going to legitimately say, who is this guy? Yep. If you want to know more about David Van Ness, Jeff Tielis of Pinball Profile just released an episode. Perfect. Go listen to it. David Van Ness and the other guy. Sorry, other guy. but there's another guy that that is part of the company the cfo and the coo right and and they go over in depth this as well but david vaness was originally at spooky and brian savage yep yep um they've got people that were working on williams games that are working there i mean it just it's a good company built of people that are tried and true they took some time they so they're not new they're not the new kids on the block but they are the new company on the block.
    48:41
    We've talked with a lot of friends about this and someone had pointed out this is the best first pinball machine of a company.
    48:53
    I'm actually going to give it second place. But the first place is a really good showing and that would be Wizard of Oz.
    49:03
    And when I saw this, I thought, this gives me Wizard of Oz vibes with like a 90s Bally Williams feel. Yeah. Is that what you got, Josh?
    49:20
    Even the cabinet looks like a Bally Williams. Yeah. It looks great. And if you're a fan, how much was this? I think $10,200. Yeah. And then if you want to go all out. It's just around that $10,000 mark. Yeah. If you want to go all out, it's like $12,500. and that's the topper and the mirrored back glass and this thing is very it's the same as every high end right yeah every high end game is tickling that thirteen thousand dollar mark so my understanding is is there's only one tier but you can change you can do different add-ons yeah so it's it's very the spooky a la carte we're doing one model but you can you can customize your ride essentially Yeah, you can get the shooter rod, you can get the topper.
    50:07
    Yeah, limited to 1,100 units. So after we played Labyrinth, we started exploring the floor. Pulp Fiction, amazing game.
    50:21
    Really, if you're a Pulp Fiction fan, this game shoots great. It's absolutely amazing. I love the ambiance of this game. There's just something about that. What's that song? Jungle Boogie? I think is what it's called. There's just something about locking the ball into the briefcase area and having Jungle Boogie just for a second. Don't, don't, don't, don't. And you're like, oh, I want to hear the rest of that, you know, and just locking those other balls so you can start the Jungle Boogie multiball. And it's just the game's fantastic. Yeah, I can't own one at this point. But with my young kids, it's also not like it doesn't connect with me. It's the same thing as Big Lebowski. I'm not going to pay the money for a Big Lebowski. I've seen the movie once, and it didn't connect with me on theme, but it's a solid execution of the theme. And there are so many fans out there that this is – if you are a fan, it's a must-buy. It's the same as Big Lebowski. If you're a fan of that, that's a great buy. Yep. We went and played Ninja Eclipse from Turner Pinball. So, OK, talk about that, because I think that very few people know enough about it. And so, OK, we we know that this is Turner who bought the assets from Deep Root. And no one's going to be surprised. My feelings on Deep Root. So let's let's try to give him a fresh take and say, OK, he he is not Robert Mueller. So let's see what he's bringing to the table with whatever assets they made. So go ahead. So they got rid of the coin door because they want to look to the future and use your phone to pay instead of putting coins in the game. Which, by the way, okay, I actually agree with that. Yeah. I agree that the coin mech is antiquated. And really, if you look at most arcades, they have some sort of digital pay system. Yeah. the cabinet itself looks like the, because they decided to cut the, you know, there's eight inches of air inside the thing. So the, the cabinets don't hold what they used to back in the sixties. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't have relays and max and score reels and all that jazz. They don't need to be as deep unless you have a, a building in Godzilla that's raising up and going down. Yep. So they've cut, they've cut the cabinet pretty small. It almost like, I hate to say this, but it almost reminds me of a Zizzle. Yeah. That's the downside is because visually now we're not talking about quality. We're not talking about playing. I would say visually when you look at it, it's going to remind you of a Zizzle machine. Yep. So it's still a full size. Yep. It's still full size.
    53:15
    They've got some interesting different things that they're trying to implement into pinball. Okay. like almost like think of a hood on a car how you pop that open that's how the glass works on this so it pops open um some merit to it so the game itself it played all right the problem is is the flippers are mushy they are they're bad yeah it just woof um the game was all right like it shot fine it felt like a standard pinball machine there wasn't anything that was like game breaking there wasn't like the interesting part is it's got a scoop on each side yeah and the video I recorded I didn't know this until I went back and watched it like one of the scoops catches it and shoots it over to the other scoop and the scoop like shoots it back at your flipper so it was like why are we playing this back and forth I don't know it's cool visually it was cool but why do you catapult the ball into Jackie visually it looks cool on Aerosmith looks cool So, okay. So this is from someone who hasn't seen it since I didn't go to Expo. Yeah. I look at this and say, this is a great looking high-end homebrew.
    54:32
    Yeah. And that's not an insult, by the way, because it's a solid effort for a first game. now the now this is going to be a different question on the price point though because we talked about again we're only speaking for our buying but elton john's a little high for my buying habits right now yep is this worth what they are asking for i don't know what they're asking i really didn't develop it's around nine thousand dollars okay yeah probably not so is it Let's be honest. If you can get a Godzilla for $9, that would be used. Sure. You could get a Godzilla for $9 or this. Okay, but this is not going to be your only game, though. Yeah. Like, if you're buying one game, you're not buying Ninja Eclipse. Yeah. But – I think there's still – heck, Alien is cheaper than this with the new Ripley stuff. Yeah. I just – I don't think – $9,777. Yeah. It's quite the bill. to 100 it's limited to 100 editions for a limited to 100 first edition units that's interesting yeah so they're kind of going the book style like a first print yeah they're leaving the door open that they could remake it yeah um like i said i just i will tell you this it was not the worst game there okay so jury's still out okay all right it's uh i i would say Can we talk about the worst game there? Yeah, I know. I try to keep positive, but okay. Okay, so wrap up on Turner. If you want a unique one and you're willing to take a risk on a company with an interesting connection to a very flawed company, then sure.
    56:27
    It's something you could consider. um so the one that i okay is this the the least impressive of the show is that the best way of putting it yeah we'll put it that way elements by pinball adventures this this game okay what here's the thing that's why it makes it the least impressive i couldn't even play it and they just had the glass off so you could push switches at that point and move the ball where you needed to just so you could it was it was a high-end working whitewood i don't know why they brought it well that just okay they had to have known that elton john was being shown they had to know like i mean come on like the the pinball the the pinball industry is pretty small yeah like you're going to see this and so it it it makes me cringe a little bit to think that there was no awareness to say this is probably not our show yeah um that's all i can say about when you can't play a game it looked all right like it just right it looks like a homebrew a non-working homebrew it It was bad. Yeah, so it looks cool. Do you know what it looks like? It looks like 1970s fantasy art.
    57:53
    Is that – Yeah. Okay, if you're old enough to remember the video games, the early video games, then – where the graphics were not good. So how they sold the video games is they had some pretty awesome fantasy art on the box. you know and and like just think of think of 1982 dungeons and dragons art that's what this reminds me of um the the challenge is man if you can't play the game how how in the world are you gonna sell it yeah they should have not they that's the thing too punny factories just started shipping within the last six months why not just push punny factory and let this bake a little more That's what they should have done. It's really hard. Well, people will forgive timing because we have seen that with Chicago Game Company. I mean, like I own four Chicago Game Company games, and they are not fast, but they are quality. So don't rush because that's the first impression people are going to get. I agree. So, yeah, that's all I have to say about Lemons. There's not much more I can say about Lemons. Okay, I think it's fair to say this needs to be put back in the oven before we actually evaluate it. It was a poor showing at this show, and we can't make a final evaluation of it at this point. It got an incomplete grade. Yep. Next, I got invited to the At Games booth, so they are teaming up with Zen Pinball. Okay. If Zen Pinball has done like pinball arcade style – I can't remember what theirs is called. I know it's just Zen Pinball. It's the Williams Arcade.
    59:44
    So AtGames is making a virtual pinball machine for the home setting. And they're doing it in conjunction with Zen and using the games that Zen has already put on Xbox or your phone or wherever it may be. uh it's an adams family style game it's all 4k resolution the game itself retails for 1500 okay their point is we're trying to get you to go from like this is the next stepping stone between going from the video game version should be this then to your actual pinball machine um it for 1500 bucks okay the problem is is you've got one up arcade yep with the same tables from zen for half the price i don't know if it's half well in if i recall right they have um they have two of them don't they or three maybe three because i know they have marvel they've got Williams. And then they have Attack from Mars.
    60:50
    Yes. So that is the Williams one. But that one, that's the thing. So they have a Star Wars. They have their Star Wars ones. Star Wars. Yes, that's it. Star Wars, Marvels, and Williams. Williams, yeah. But the Williams ones have like Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness and Whitewater. Right. The weird part about this Addams Family, and I know that they're setting it up so you can add more games to it later. but at the show they only had ams family and then like some random ones that they have made themselves and then some that like not a lot of people are going to be aware of like i don't know many people that know about farfalla which was a yeah i do know about company yeah so that was in there um it just one of the cool parts is when you flip the flippers it feels like you're flipping the flippers sure uh i don't know if there's knockers in there or whatever so you're getting that feedback you're getting the clack of the flippers and you're getting and then the other part too is is they're going to put in like half-dip feedback features so when you they didn't have this at the show but they're saying when you shake the cabinet it should shake the ball inside so it's reacting like as if you were actually nudging a game well it's it's kind of like that you have on your on your smartphone i mean that was the reason why labyrinth was included with your first i you know iphone because you're like oh i can tilt the you know i can tilt it and move the ball so so i think here's my opinion i think this is a good idea for a pinball or like a virtual cabinet i think they've done a good job my my other problem with is there was delay you flip the flipper and it was not flipping when it should flip and the arcade has the same thing yeah so it's not that it's a a virtual pinball problem like it's not specific to this machine It's a virtual pinball problem.
    62:37
    Overall, it's a really cool concept. I think I have our time with them bringing this to Pinball Expo because I don't actually think that's your target demographic. Because I think a lot of people at Pinball Expo have bought their pinball machines. And this would feel like you're reverting. Maybe I could be wrong. I think you are a little wrong in this. in that there are people who will go to these expos and they look at okay this is okay i'll give you the example there are you go to like some sort of shipwreck find where they found all this crazy gold um like it's like the uh the there was one that i went to like 20 years ago it's called the achoa or something like that and you went and you saw all these crazy things and Because it was salvage rights, they actually were able to pick up these things and you could get like a bar. You could get a goblet or something like that. And they were crazy prices. They were like $15,000 for just something, like some piece. And when you walking out they like or you can get these toothpick things that are made of the metal that we got down there And we mold you know we have forged them out of this thing and it only
    63:59
    Yeah. And so many of those things went out. Like no one was buying the super high end stuff, but people were buying the small stuff. So I, there are going to be people who come to these shows who just want to have a good time and play around. And I would say that unless you are into pinball, you don't really appreciate how expensive a single machine is yeah so they see that those things they're like well what can i do it's like i don't want to just play it on my phone what's something i can do so um i actually got a message about a week ago from just one of the guys that i work with at the hospital and he sent a picture of the the arcade one-up star wars it was a costco and he said are these any fun and i and i told him i said well yes they're fun they are not the same thing as a full functioning game but they're also 600 bucks you know or 700 whatever he paid and i said it's kind of a low risk thing if you're going to see if you like it and you can buy it and play for a while and then if you feel like oh i would rather upgrade to the other one it's a low cost to enter. Yeah. And, and there are people who are willing to do it. And so he bought it and he, and he's been having a blast with it. So there is a market for this. Again, not every game is targeted toward all demographics. This game is not targeted to you. You're not going to buy it. I'm not going to buy it, but someone will. And if now, if it has more than one game, that would be the, because you're not going to sell these if they have one game. Yeah.
    65:48
    But it's still, and it looks kind of cool, and there are people who just want something like that in their game room that they're not going to play that much.
    65:56
    And I think, I don't know, it's a good alternative. Resale those different, though, because you can sell a game for roughly what you paid for it. Give or take, like up or down $1,000. you're going to capture 95% of the market of the, the value of the game with these, you need to understand you're buying it and you're probably not going to get anything out of it. I agree.
    66:27
    So, uh, that pretty much wraps up for what I played on the floor. I mean, I've played venom. I've played, I've talked about those games and other podcasts. I don't really feel like I need to rehash it here. Uh, or other podcast episodes. Um, Friday also took my son downtown. We, We went to 360 Chicago. I had him tilt over the whole city. We had Gino's East for lunch. Very delicious.
    66:52
    I like Gino's East. They were good. I had that before. It was good. That night, we went to dinner with George Fisher, Jay-Z, Michael Hamilton. That's his girlfriend, yeah. I'm kidding. I know he's not dating Beyonce's husband. uh michael and amanda hamilton dan rostenstein craig bobby george's sister um is that everyone and it was me and carter we went to luminati's it was kind of funny car was kind of can we not have pizza like on saturday he's like can i have something that isn't pizza i'm like you don't want to get more pizza we can get more pizza he's no please no no give me one of those those uh sausage burger things. Luminati's was great and I realized the thing that you need to get there, in my opinion, is the flat.
    67:42
    You can get the flat, but if you're going deep dish, the sausage is really good because it goes all the way to the edges, but get pepperoni with it too.
    67:50
    More meat, the merrier. That's just me. Saturday was great. We got up early. We went to Pinball Olympics, which was fantastic. If you haven't seen the videos, it's fun go to our facebook page go to our youtube channel scott denisi and and j brand you've got to sell this room thing that you guys built like so i'm gonna explain this it's a big room you go into it's it's it's soundproof or it's padded so it's not so loud uh it's not soundproof i apologize but um it's got led strips like every three inches up the wall may it's not me that's not every two inches all the way from floor to ceiling full-size like jbl speakers and this is all tied in with a p-rock that scott got and it's so loud and the room actually shakes and it reacts with the game and you think it's insanity and then you get to have to just like if you can actually get to the point where you need to destroy a reactor the whole game's going nuts which by the way there's fog machines built into it as well and so the fog machines start going off it's funny because like in the video like i have me and joel and his brother jared and carter walking into the room right and like you can see on joel's face like oh what what is this you know and we get playing and i we get to the point where i'm trying to destroy a reactor and joel's like hit the stand-up target it's right there josh like you can hear this in the video and i'm like joel i can't see crap blinded by dwight oh dude it was great anyhow they need i told him like you could sell these rooms i guarantee you could sell these rooms to someone and tie them in with tna you would tie it in with like an arcade one-up game holy crap it's just yeah amazing amazing uh the other cool part was there was a they found a dryer cut the back end out of it and they the way that they set it up into the pinball olympics you couldn't see there was like a black box behind the dryer but if you climbed into the dryer there's a dirty harry in there and you could play that i'm trying to think oh no good gophers everyone loves buzz and buck or buzz and uh bud um he paid two comedians to come and heckle you dressed up as chipmunks while you're playing no good gophers carter loved it yeah he he played he that's all he wanted to play was actually no good gophers because he he was heckling them back and they were like oh that's actually a good one that's probably the best one yeah yeah and so it was great it's pinball olympics yeah it's amazing go check out the video it's it's certainly fun if you've never been and it's fun if you've been so So about three hours into Pinball Olympics, I get a text, and it's Larry. I wasn't expecting this. And he's like, I'm at Expo if you want to come do that interview.
    70:56
    Okay, give me – I'm like, can you give me like – Give me 56 minutes because that's how long it takes to get back to Expo. Yeah. And so I went to Joel because Joel was our ride, and Joel's like, I'm actually kind of done too.
    71:07
    And so we – Carter didn't want to leave. He wanted to stay and play No Good Gophers. I'm like, dude, I can't just leave you here. Like I'm not going to leave you here. anyhow so i told larry i'm like well how much time do you have and he's like not a bunch and i'm like okay i'll i'll be there just give me an hour and he's like okay sounds good so we hopped in the car we hightailed it back i we found him we went and found a quiet corner i record the two-hour interview carter the nice part is we i had pre-ordered super mario wonder which came out on friday so carter was giddy just he'd been so spent on everything we had done he's right i'm go into the room and i am playing super mario and so i was like cool whatever but yeah and then larry and i talked for well over two hours because we had i think beforehand and then after we were done doing the interview um and then saturday evening was kind of a wrap-up like we'd kind of already done it all it ended with seminar wise with dwight dwight sullivan from stern decides he's got to do these game shows he loves game shows which is great you and i did he loves gaming by the way If you want to play games, Dwight is your guy. Yes. And he did, two years ago when you went with me, he did... It was the Feud Without the Family or something like that? Feud Without the Family. That's correct. And it went really well. And the interesting part is, we were talking about this beforehand, it was kind of like almost everyone in the audience won something small. Sure. Like I got a Frisbee and a Godzilla figurine. yeah and i got some stern glasses and like actual pint glasses and i can't remember what else i got me i may have cool cool stuff but yeah you know it's it's easily less than 30 bucks yeah so he did like let's make a deal if you've never watched that before it's very interactive with the audience and he was giving out these play bucks it wasn't real cash and if you got play bucks by the end of the show you could turn there was a stern storage you could go turn them in and buy stuff at the store but then there was actual like gameplay and people would come up they would compete against each other and then if you won so everyone that came up got to pick a prize essentially um you could either win something or you would get what's called a zonk which was you got nothing or you could get a ticket to the final round and he was giving away it wasn't just like a shirt he if someone won they got like a stern banner along with a shirt with along with like glasses it was like people were like big full of their arms walking away and it was it was nuts the craziest part so okay they go through this is about an hour long it took a little longer to set up than dwight was expecting to get it all set up they do it take about an hour they're wrapping it They're doing the final round, which came down to four people. That's how many big tickets were left. And they start going through like, okay, what did you get in your box? And it was a bunch of stuff. And then someone got a zonk and they got nothing. And the last person, they must have set it up that way.
    74:26
    The last person they opened the box was a Mandalorian topper. Yeah. That's a big deal. Holy crap. Like, we're giving away toppers now? Yeah. Well, okay, not just toppers. That's a $2,000 topper. Yeah, that's the most expensive topper. Like, MSRP is $2,000. Yeah. And so it was funny because, like, then people could tell it was, like, wrapping up. And those that had their bucks were kind of, like, done. And so they wrapped the front. I was like, Dwight wasn't even done yet because he was still doing, like, the final show. And all these people are trying to get their prizes and whatnot. um somehow i ended up with a shirt even though i didn't get any bucks or go up front uh which then was taken away by dwight and he's like now you can have it what is going on like it's just it was weird i'm not going to go into depth with that uh it was it was really fun though yeah dwight is one of the most sincere enthusiastic guys that you'll meet in pinball and now you've listened to what an hour and 20 minutes of us I don't think it's an hour and 20 hour and 15 that was pretty much expo from start to finish like I literally once let's make a deal was done I went and got in bed then we were up by 2 o'clock in the morning it's early to get out and we got home before 9 o'clock in the morning I'm going to take Larry DeMar off the table what was your most memorable experience at pinball expo it was either you know give me top three give me top okay in no specific order because i don't know if i can order these the vip event for elton john um i felt very honored to be trusted sure to be in that inner circle that that's something that i would never dreamed of so i would say high point definitely jersey jack very very high point jersey jack with elton john and uh their marketing team including including our good friend ken cromwell and the i'm calling it the box of awesome or you're the awesome box scott denisi and jay brands creation at pinball olympics you know pinball olympics it was great i felt like i'd done it all before but that itself was worth the price of mission between the tacos you know um but that box of awesome was amazing uh the third thing was probably honestly all those people that came up to me um there was a lot of people that wanted to talk just because they knew who i was and they've listened to the show for years very humbling to seeing people wear loser kid shoes has to be one of the coolest things oh dog doug puerta is that i can't remember if that's exactly i apologize if i saw what you're asking doug showed up thursday loser kid shoes loser kid shirt loser kid hat like he's all the other thing he could have done is if he went to swiverball swag.com slash loser kid and bought back we have no we had the joggers too so you could buy the joggers and the backpack you could have literally been loser kid from head to toe yeah i don't care the man looked amazing i loved it it was great it was doug thanks for the support yeah it actually it makes me smile knowing that that we can at least that you invite us into your home to listen to listen and and we take that friendship seriously so thank you there is one more person on my list i did some notes and i've been jumping around this there's one person i do want to give a shout out to davy from stumblers mods i got to meet him in person the dude is awesome like if you get an opportunity if he's at a show seriously we he i apologize he was one of the other people that went to dinner with us with luminatis and the dude is just awesome like he's very nice he's very down to earth and he just it was it was really cool to talk to him and if you got the opportunity sit down with Davey buy him a pint or whatever you want to do it just Davey I need to order before you stop making them the mods for Godzilla I have one of them I need the other two it was great to meet him meet Alec Gleason he is a part of the electric playground that is doing the Godzilla topper and the Twilight Zone topper and the godzilla topper i didn't realize it's pretty sweet so it's like a ufo then it has like each city or not the city sorry it has like battle you know like in the center of the playfield it's essentially that they've taken the spaceship from the center of the playfield to put it up on top but but if you i can't remember how you activate it but a ufo will actually pop out of the topper and it looks like it's like beaming down onto the topper and And it slides back in. Really cool. Alex, really cool guy. Like I said, I hate starting naming people because I know I'm going to forget someone. Jeff Gillis. It was great to see Jeff as usual.
    79:40
    Nice dude. Sweet, sweet hair. I wish – I don't dare grow out my locks like him. Well, okay. Jeff's just a sexy man. And that's how it is.
    79:51
    Then we should – you know what? That's one thing. Forget the Twippy. Forget the Pinball Industry Awards, which I love. I love those guys. we need to have a like sexiest person in pinball award you know what i don't have personality wise it's it's jeff within his flowing hair just makes it awesome oh my goodness but yeah it was it was amazing top to bottom yeah top top three there you go okay you have some shout outs too i want to make sure you get those in oh i've shouted them out during the episode uh donald garrison Dan Rostenstein, Davey Stumbler Erica from Erica's Pinball Journey Slam Tilt Ron, thanks for reaching out Oh, Glenn Wechter I have not shouted you out yet Glenn, okay, people I know you're to the end of the episode You're like, we're still going? I apologize Well, heck, you just listened to Larry DeMar For two hours, maybe you can listen to me for an hour And 30 minutes Maybe So we started doing the YouTube thing Right? and our outro music was actually getting us pinged for copyright stuff. And I didn't know this until about like a couple episodes in, and it was still letting us keep the episodes. Like it wasn't bleeping anything out. But if you don't know anything about YouTube, like if it's been copywritten, it actually like counts your views towards their stuff. Right. It's, it's this weird thing. Yeah. And so like, I was really frustrated with that and I got talking with Glenn and, And I asked him, like, would you make us an outro? Because he's done the Slam Tilt song, which was amazing. He's done his own personal stuff. He's done songs for our show before.
    81:34
    Just the dude's very good. And I just, Glenn, you're an awesome dude. And so to be a part of Loser Kid, that's part of the other reason I asked you. So I could be like, hey, Glenn's helped us out.
    81:48
    If you haven't checked Glenn out, check him out. Yeah. Glenn was awesome. He actually did your Check It Out rap. You remember that? Yeah, I do. That's why I said that.
    81:58
    Anyhow, so this new outro music is thanks to Glenn Wechter. Thank you again for making this. It's awesome. It's kind of almost creepy, but it's kind of a throwback to our old outro too. It's great. So anything else, Scott? I'm sorry. I talked a lot. Well, that's because I was interviewing you. I wanted to hear from Expo since I was living vicariously through you.
    82:23
    So there's that. And if you guys went to Expo and there were things that you liked or that we didn't cover or that you think were dead wrong, please send it back. We want to hear from you. We want to hear the things you're looking forward to, the current price points, what you're interested in, if there's something you're looking forward to. And that helps us out. And we love hearing from you guys. So we'll see you in about two weeks. Correct. If you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. I do respond to that one very well. So if you do send an email, I will get it. And I will either try to respond to it or you'll hear it on our next episode. It just is what it is.
    83:11
    Facebook, Twitter slash X, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube. seriously if you're at this point and you're listening to our content please go on YouTube and subscribe we're trying to get to 500 it does help they want us to get to like 500 subscribers to get to their level of whatever they need us to and watch our content like I say if you haven't seen the Elton John stuff if you haven't I'm slowly rolling out more video onto there I've got some Labyrinth stuff I'm going to try to put on there it's hard because I had my son and record the video and some of it ended up at my feet some of it ended up in my back hey that's great i love the kid that's great it's great so i'm going to try to edit what i can and kind of put it together so you can get some ideas if you haven't already man it i love that he was with me it was great to actually you'll you'll you'll remember that video the video of your feet more than you would if he nailed it yeah and the funny part is too by the end of all the shenanigans right I'm like have you had fun like I was nervous yeah because when you're in your own element you're afraid that you're neglecting someone that's with you or whatever it's like no I feel like you spoiled me all weekend I don't know what to do and I was like just say thank you you know so I mean the kid had pizza for like four days straight and then if he didn't have pizza he had he loved Portillo's I do not want to know what that did to his GI system yeah but yeah that's the episode sorry i if i keep talking i'll just keep talking so yeah see you in two weeks scott see ya bye
    85:11
    you