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The Pinball Show Ep 61: Streaming and Chipping and Rooting OH MY!

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 38m·analyzed·May 24, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Mandalorian pinball praised for fresh layout & flowy gameplay; code emphasizes video game mechanics

Summary

Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel review The Mandalorian pinball machine from Stern following its live gameplay reveal stream, discussing the layout's originality, shooting quality, code complexity with video game-inspired mechanics, and design decisions like the stationary Grogu toy. They also cover Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses topper announcement and Lior Rajwan's custom interactive topper project.

Key Claims

  • The Mandalorian layout is unlike anything Brian Eddy has designed recently and stands out as very original

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis both emphasize the uniqueness of the playfield design compared to Eddy's previous work

  • The game shoots faster and more fluidly than expected from static photos

    high confidence · Zach describes the ramps and ball returns as unexpectedly fast, 'like a rocket'

  • Dwight Sullivan's code incorporates video game-style currency and item shop mechanics for acquiring power-ups

    high confidence · Dennis and Zach describe accumulating Beskar currency to unlock items like ball saves and weapons in the Foundry

  • The Grogu toy is stationary, not motorized to pick up or move the ball

    high confidence · Extended discussion of community speculation about moving Grogu vs. the final static design

  • Mandalorian is selling 'a shit ton' of machines and doesn't need additional features to drive sales

    high confidence · Zach as distributor confirms strong sales performance, calling it 'selling like hotcakes'

  • Wire form crossovers were used instead of plastic for Premium/LE, improving aesthetics while maintaining speed

    high confidence · Zach praises the wire form look; both note ball-off issues during the reveal stream

  • The stream had multiple ball-off incidents from the wire form crossovers

    high confidence · Dennis and Zach note the game wasn't fully ready for streaming with repeated ball-off problems

  • Jerry Thompson provided sound design; music is included but vocal call-outs from Mando are minimal

    high confidence · Zach credits Jerry for consistently great sound; mentions community feedback about lack of voice work from the show

  • Jersey Jack announced a Guns N' Roses topper coming later this summer

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg's correspondent report on JJP Facebook announcement with silhouette preview

Notable Quotes

  • “It was about as much flow as I expected after I saw the still photos, which I liked... the biggest thing that surprised me was it did not seem that the mini play field was used as much or as long as I thought it would be”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~25:00 — Early technical assessment of the playfield's use of the mini upper play field in the rule set

  • “The big thing for the Premium LE, in my opinion, is you get that extra shot... My favorite thing was actually having the wire forms for the crossovers. I really like the look of that a lot better than the plastic.”

    Zach Minney @ ~42:00 — Identifies differentiation between Premium/LE tiers and preference for aesthetic improvements

  • “Why not have a game that's ready to stream? Question mark... Sometimes you just got to get out the spot welder during the stream and you just got to do some welding.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~44:00 — Critical commentary on the stream quality and wire form issues that occurred during reveal

  • “All reports are this game is doing very well. They're selling a shit ton of them... Numbers don't lie. The game's clearly successful enough on theme alone without Grogu doing really cool stuff.”

    Zach Minney @ ~56:00 — Market confirmation of strong Mandalorian sales performance justifying current design choices

  • “It's not something we've seen a lot of... you're accumulating a currency, and then you're able to use that essentially in item shop to acquire things to help your game out... Some phone games do that.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~32:00 — Analysis of the video game-inspired mechanical design philosophy in Dwight's code

  • “The lighting effects overall... it's already well, well-coated... Jerry always does a great job... If Jerry Thompson or David Thiel is on a game, it's going to sound good. They're consistent about it.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~62:00 — Recognition of audio/sound design quality expectations from established Stern audio team

  • “This is different, which I'm really glad it wasn't Shadow 2.0. I'm glad he didn't do that. I could have went with that as well. I'm tired of this go-back-to-the-well crap. We need new stuff, and Brian delivered.”

Entities

The MandaloriangameStern PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonBrian EddypersonDwight SullivanpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyLior Rajwanperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Community speculation about moving Grogu toy versus stationary design; debate about feature value vs. business justification

    high · Extended discussion: 'Everybody was wanting the child to move... it would dramatically slow down the game' and cost/BOM arguments against implementation

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Art of Pinball's custom interactive Guns N' Roses topper positioned as premium modifier, limited to 100-150 units, 'will not be cheap'

    high · Ken Rudberg: 'Lior says he'll only be making 100 or 150 of these, and that... it will not be cheap'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Mandalorian playfield allocates significant real estate to in-lanes (5 top lanes + CHILD targets) and mini playfield, potential efficiency concern

    medium · Dennis: 'I'm surprised Brian Eddy used as much real estate for the in-lanes... coupled with the child figurine, they do take up a lot of space'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Brian Eddy delivered original playfield design distinctly different from his prior work and industry trends, avoiding franchise recycling ('go-back-to-the-well' patterns)

    high · Zach: 'This is different, which I'm really glad it wasn't Shadow 2.0... We need new stuff, and Brian delivered.' Dennis confirms the uniqueness.

  • ?

    event_signal: The Mandalorian live gameplay reveal stream conducted and VOD made available on Jack Danger/Deadflip YouTube channel

    high · Zach: 'You can find this on the Video On Demand on Jack Danger or Deadflip's YouTube channel or probably still up on Twitch'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.295

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Coming up on episode 61 of The Pinball Show, Dennis and I reflect on our past week in pinball. The recent Mando live gameplay stream. Video gaming elements making their way into new pinball titles. A new Stern pinball accessory shipping. JJP teasing a topper. The closing of the mermaid hole. Dennis sticks it to the man to help the poor. A friend gets a job. Deep-rooted by Kerry Hardy. Pinball market trends. My favorite U.S. state this month. And much, much more. As a reminder, this program has been edited for your enjoyment.
1:00
Hello, darkness, my old friend. Pinball is a game of skill. I've come to talk with you again. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. Because a vision softly creeping. It's time for the pinball show. As it sees while I was sleeping. It's pinball with personality. And the vision that was planted in my brain still remains within the sound of silence.
1:34
In restless dreams I walked over. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to a thing we like to call The Pinball Show, episode 61 with your host, myself, Zach Minney, and my co-captain, Dennis Creasel. How's it going, Dennis? It's going well. I can bring you in warm or I can bring you in cold. Another quote? A very relevant quote. I know this quote. This one I know. Episode one.
2:00
Of Mandalorian. I was going to throw you for a little loop there. I was like, no. You thought you had me.

  • Lior Rajwan is creating an interactive Guns N' Roses topper requiring its own PC to run, limited to 100-150 units

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg reports Rajwan's claim of 'most interactive topper ever created' with custom lighting and effects

    • Zach Minney @ ~18:00 — Explicit praise for design innovation vs. franchise repetition pattern

  • “That left ramp, that's got a long distance to travel to the backboard... but it was super fast, like a rocket. Same with the right ramp... really quick. That center, razor-crest shot... very fast, flowed very well...”

    Zach Minney @ ~23:00 — Detailed technical breakdown of playfield flow and ball routing quality

    • Jerry Thompson
    person
    Ken Rudbergperson
    Jack Danger / Deadflipperson
    David Thielperson
    Game of Thronesgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Shadow (2.0)game
    Stranger Thingsgame
    The Pinball Showorganization
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    The Art of Pinballorganization
    Eclectic Gamersorganization
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Lack of vocal call-outs from Mando character attributed to licensing/rights limitations despite strong sound design overall

    medium · Zach: 'they were a little distressed at the lack of vocal call-outs from the show... do they have the rights to use any Ma[ndo]' (cut off)

  • $

    market_signal: The Mandalorian selling strongly without Grogu motorized toy feature, suggesting theme and core mechanics are primary sales drivers

    high · Zach: 'They're selling a shit ton of them... The game's clearly successful enough on theme alone without Grogu doing really cool stuff.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jerry Thompson confirmed as sound designer on The Mandalorian; recognized as part of consistent high-quality Stern audio team

    high · Zach: 'Jerry always does a great job' and Dennis: 'If Jerry Thompson or David Thiel is on a game, it's going to sound good. They're consistent about it.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Premium/LE tier differentiation includes wire form crossovers (aesthetic upgrade), extra shot, and mini playfield — Pro model lacks these features

    high · Zach: 'The big thing for the Premium LE, in my opinion, is you get that extra shot... My favorite thing was actually having the wire forms for the crossovers.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Wire form crossovers caused repeated ball-off issues during official reveal stream, indicating quality control gaps before public showcase

    high · Dennis: 'Why not have a game that's ready to stream?' and 'we've seen the ball numerous times ball off that wire form. Numerous times.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack Pinball announced Guns N' Roses official topper shipping later summer; third-party custom interactive topper also in development

    high · Ken Rudberg: 'Jersey Jack said that a Guns N' Roses topper is coming soon... coming out later on this summer'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Dwight Sullivan's code incorporates video game-inspired currency and item shop mechanics, evolving pinball rule design toward gaming conventions

    high · Dennis: 'you're accumulating a currency, and then you're able to use that essentially in item shop to acquire things... Some phone games do that.' Discussion of Foundry system with Beskar currency.

    • 2:08
    Yep, you thought you had me. What's your qualitative review of the show itself? Overall, I think it's pretty good. It's going with that sort of looser, more humorous, fun episode of the week approach. And I just think compared to how heavy and the direction they've taken some of the more modern films, that it feels more of a throwback style to the older way Star Wars used to be. And I think that's where its success is coming from, along with the adorableness of Baby Yoda. Man, I heard that rant last week on EGP about you calling it a baby Yoda versus Grogu versus the child. Oh, well, you know, some people like to gatekeep, and I'm not a big fan of gates. I know. I like to open them and let the cattle roam, roam free. I'm a free-grazing sort of rancher, really. Somebody asked me on stream last week, I was visiting Joel Engelberth on the audio track, and they wanted me to do a pig call, suey. oh yeah because you're from indiana i understand i suppose i didn't get the reference there so overall you like the mandalorian series that's great is there anything that's just going to knock your socks off because if that didn't really get you going what will i i don't know if i get excited to the level that maybe you're hoping the for as a response that's probably the issue what is the last thing that has been released whether it's film whether it's a game whether it's anything that just made you like a school girl you were just elated to the point of i can't wait i don't nothing hello darkness my old friend i really yeah it's kind of like i remember an interview with uh lyman sheets where he sort of explained he was like a minus five to plus five person not a zero to ten it's sort of like that would probably be the best way to summarize it so your plus five is really like whoop who well i mean i can there have been things where i've just like get like yes i'm really pleased with how something goes but not usually yes i'm really pleased with how something goes yeah but not like releases or oh good they're doing a new blank i'm like yes what about like roller coasters Is there anything that just really gets you so fired up and giddy?
    4:36
    I mean, I like puppies. Puppies are nice when they're not peeing. It's always the negative. Comedy? Nothing, huh? I like comics.
    4:51
    I like comics. Just wondering, speaking of comedy, I was thinking to myself last night as I was prepping for this show, really important question. Dennis Creasel, have you ever harmonized with a fart? Hello, darkness, my old friend.
    5:09
    Not to my knowledge. I did last night, and I was so proud of myself, listener. But it was like a thing that dreams are made of, where you have that gas, and you can control the output of said gas. And I was singing something, and I was like, oh, a little rumbly. I need a backup singer. Wah, wah. It's just perfect. It's perfect. The seas parted. The clouds parted. Man, my butt cheeks parted. It was a miracle. Given how you sing, I'm not too surprised that it synced well.
    5:46
    It synced well, too. Made the Mona Lisa smile. Why don't we jump into some pinball news? That's why these people are here, I think. Oh, are they? Mm-hmm. I hope we have some good correspondence.
    5:58
    Craig Bobby's up in the wilderness as well, coming back. Oh, is he back in the maple trees again? Yeah. He said he's heading up to the northern land. Well, it's just as well. It's not like Stern has a release coming out.
    6:10
    It's not like he gets ten times the news that every other correspondent gets. Yeah, but he did have like four months where he didn't have to really say anything. And now here we are in abandonment. There goes Bobby. It's time for TPN Industry News.
    6:28
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. On their most recent Facebook post, Jersey Jack said that a Guns N' Roses topper is coming soon, along with other accessories and add-ons. The post also includes a silhouette outline of the proposed topper. Not sure if that's the real deal or not, but if it is, it's going to have the Guns N' Roses logo front and center sticking out of the top. Jersey Jack said that that will be coming out later on this summer. Everyone's favorite mod maker, Lior Rajwan of The Art of Pinball, also posted something intriguing this last week. It appears that he will be creating his own very elaborate version of the Guns N' Roses topper. He makes a bold claim saying that this will be the most interactive topper ever created. It'll be fully interactive with the game, including lighting and special effects, and it is so complex it requires its own PC to run it. Lior says he'll only be making 100 or 150 of these, and that, quote, it will not be cheap. There's sure to be a huge demand for this topper because of the great work he's done in the past, so if you want one, I suggest you keep your eyes peeled for the release date. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    7:50
    Alright, Dennis Sturm, pinball is in the news. really big this week because we finally seen the reveal stream and gameplay of The Mandalorian. It was the premium edition, Pinball Machine by Stern Pinball. You can find this on the Video On Demand on Jack Danger or Deadflip's YouTube channel or probably still up on Twitch. That's where it was streamed live. Were you able to sit down and take a watch? I watched about 40 minutes of it. What was your excitement level, 0 to 5, about this game in general once because you and i haven't talked about first impressions on the videos and the the pictures was this a breath of fresh air for you from brian eddie were you happy to see dwight on code what were just quick initial thoughts yeah it was layout wise i liked that it doesn't look like anything from stern that i can think of it doesn't remind me of any other game so on a uniqueness front i was really pleased with it looking the way it does including how flowy it looks. I was indifferent in terms of who was going to be assigned on code. It's more about what will the rules ultimately be. I don't typecast the same way a lot of other people I feel do in this hobby about when you find out who's lead on code. I think a lot of them have shown a degree of flexibility, so I don't always just immediately know everything based off of who the coder will be. Understood. I wasn't surprised though that it was Dwight, given how big of a Star Wars fan he is. So overall, pretty uh yeah a good three or four wow wow is this a theme or a type of game after seeing the pictures or videos that you thought i could see myself potentially owning that someday like it's there's nothing that just turns me off totally no it looked like something that i i'd need to play it sure to know for sure but looking at how it played and the idea behind the rules i was like yeah it could be it could be one that would appeal to me creasles rule of play before you pay yes That's just how I do it. That's just my approach. Pay small amount. It's play and then maybe pay. Except I'll probably pay when I play because I pay on location. Did you watch the stream? I watched the first 40 minutes and then I had other things to do. Gotcha. So that means I saw Brian Eddy walk through the layout. I saw Dwight walk through the rules and I saw part of one game. Okay. All right. For those that weren't following along, that was sort of the speed of the pace. And I don't know how long the stream was. Was it 90 minutes? Yeah, I think something like that. Okay. Well, so I saw the first 40. I watched the first 10 minutes and then realized it wasn't going to have any gameplay for a while. So I turned it off, hung out with the kids, and went back and watched the entirety of the VOD. Ah. So I got it all up in the head. I've slept since then, so maybe not. What were your first impressions of the way this game shot, the layout, geometry? It was about as much flow as I expected after I saw the still photos, which I liked. I'd say the biggest thing that surprised me, and this has, I guess, more to do with the coding integration with it, was it did not seem that the mini play field was used as much or as long as I thought it would be, given what a highlight it is on the premium. That's a good point. We didn't see it stuck up there all the time.
    11:12
    But there seemed to be an emphasis on looping shots and returns, so people that like controlled play will probably enjoy the layout quite a bit. I was surprised to see. I knew it looked like it was going to shoot fun and flowy. This is a pretty quick game. Yeah, a lot of the shots are towards the middle of the play field, so bricks and stuff will be. I think, who was it? It might have been Ron Hallett over on Slam Tilt who said, or maybe it was Bruce who said it kind of reminded them of where all the shots start on Black Knight sort of rage. Okay. And so it's sort of in your face sort of thing. So it's like if you make the shots, no problem. If you brick the shots, that ball's coming back at you really quick because it's where all the entry points are. You know, it's not Brian Eddy doing the Attack from Mars Stranger thing, layout in the back, fan layout approach. This is different. There ain't no shadow either. This is just different, which I'm really glad it wasn't Shadow 2.0. I'm glad he didn't do that. I could have went with that as well. I'm tired of this go-back-to-the-well crap. We need new stuff, and Brian delivered. Yeah, you and I very much agreed. I listened to some of your first impressions on Eclectic Gamers podcast, your other podcast that you host, and couldn't have agreed with you more, Dennis, on the originality of this play field. It was unlike anything that I've seen from Brian Eddy, certainly, but from some of those designers in the last handful of years, It was very fresh, very new, and it looked like it was going to shoot well. After watching the stream, listener, I thought, this actually shoots even a little bit better than even I thought it was going to. I think the highlight of this game may end up being the way it shoots. I thought, like, for example, that left ramp, that's got a long distance to travel to the backboard, which then has another hole to get to the left flipper crossing the play field. I thought that was going to be a bit lengthy in time to get it there, but it was super fast, like a rocket. Same with the right ramp. The returns to the flipper, even when you do complete shots, were really quick. That center, razor-crest shot that goes to a back ramp, again, very fast, flowed very well right into the left exit of the orbit. So it looks like a blast. Even the scoop was working well. That drops down to create a fourth ramp for you. So my impressions were even better seeing this thing shoot than looking at the geometry. I was really worried, Dennis, about the exit of that mini horseshoe to the right. Do you know what I'm referring to there? Yeah. I was really worried about that just based on the geometry and being a simple metal guide for it to bounce off of. But I was pleasantly surprised. It didn't look like you lose total control out of that loop at all. It's not as controllable as a clean orbit. But I thought that was just going to be a clank mid-playfield, try to get control of a thing. Yeah, nothing stood out to me as clunky. I think a lot of people will enjoy the geometry of it. I'm surprised how well that Razor Crest pendulum target works and doesn't impede the speed of that ball going mid-playfield.
    14:29
    This is Dennis Creasel not having an opinion. No, I guess I didn't have a concern on it. so I never thought about that one way or another. Well, when you have so much weight, you can tell that thing's got some weight behind it and you're slowing down the ball, going to the back of the play field for a ramp that then has to come. I thought we might get a little rejections or we might get trickles up that ramp. I was kind of concerned about that, but no, it just looked like a low-weight target that you can hit and move right out of your way. Almost as good as a dead pull on a spring. Almost. If we're also talking about layout, some of the things that made me scratch my head were I'm still head scratching a bit around that child area in the in lanes, spelling child out. Oh, for spelling the child. Yeah. That was another aspect. I'm like, I just. I don't know what we're doing. After seeing this, and again, I haven't played or obviously seen the play on the pro, but I was just like, I don't even know if I care. I don't think I care that there's a magnet there. Yeah, because lighting child, all five letters, what is that? Light a mystery award? Yeah, I thought that's what he's associated with is mystery. Okay. That's a big blueprint area there for just a mystery award. Yeah, it takes a ton of space. And not every, like, does the last letter, the D in child, does that not got a rollover? A lot of people are asking about that. I think, yeah, it certainly doesn't have a rollover switch, but I think it's likely. I don't know this to be true, but either they have an opto path there, or you can use that swinging pendulum target as a register, I would think, for the D. So I didn't see this being an issue. Yeah, I mean, they're taking a lot of space up in that area. And I remember when I first saw the stills, I thought, five in lanes, that's a lot. I mean, I'm trying to think, like, what are the last games we saw that just had, like, a ton of in lane or ton of left? And you have to go like total huge top lane stuff like WWE and Mustang sort of things. How many did Deadpool have? Deadpool felt like it had a handful up there. Was it not four? Does it spell pool or dead? I don't remember. I don't have the game. I thought it was four. It may have been four, but that is more so than a lot of games with three. Two kind of annoys me. I'm just like, get rid of the damn thing if you're only going to have two. Walking Dead only has two. Exactly. That's the worst part of that game is the whole skill shot. Lyman, oh, hail Lyman. And that is the greatest code ever, but I cannot give him a perfect score because of that just wretched skill shot system. So mean. So stupid. It's so dumb. Even he would probably say it's dumb. Or when you hit it back in the shooter lane, it's like, choose the circle that you want to hit for another hundred. Come on. You're wasting my time, Lyman. And, yeah, Deadpool, I just loaded the picture up. It does have four. Okay. I can't see what it spells. It doesn't spell anything. I guess it spells BAM! Oh, okay. So, yeah, I'm surprised Brian Eddy used as much real estate for the in-lanes. What do you call those? Top in-lanes or top rollovers?
    17:44
    I don't remember how he described it. I would normally just call them top lanes, even though they're not in the traditional spot. But the top lengths coupled with the child figurine, they do take up a lot of space. That's a big chunk up there, especially with we know that Brian Eddy doesn't. The game still shoots really flowy, so I ain't going to complain. And maybe you're just bypassing that with that extra ramp because there are a lot of shots in this game. But the pop bumpers, you know, Brian Eddy's proven on the shadow. He didn't need them. So you got two pop bumpers and probably, I don't know if there's a sling bumper or not. I didn't see it on this one like he had with Stranger Things. But the two pops, again, yeah, he freed up some space because normally they, you know how stern is, they usually commit a set amount of real estate to having three pops. So he does free up a sizable mech area by getting rid of just one. Upper play field scared me a bit. I thought, oh, hopefully this isn't like Black Knight where I'm going to get stuck up there. No, it didn't. It didn't look that way. I was actually, because I thought, man, that's a gimmick. and I don't know if I like it. That looked kind of fun, especially since there is so much code and pathways that you have to get through on that and it gets progressively more difficult with that slope.
    19:00
    Yeah, I like how Dwight's programmed it so that the challenge will go higher and higher. Again, I just don't know if that's $1,600 for me. Sure.
    19:10
    Because Grogu Magnet is not. I don't care at all about the magnet. The big thing for the Premium LE, in my opinion, is you get that extra shot. Yeah. And it may not mean a lot, but I do like an additional shot in a game like that. My favorite thing was actually having the wire forms for the crossovers. Oh, good point. I really like the look of that a lot better than the plastic. And as we saw, the returns weren't slow, so it still went, because plastic's faster, but those seemed plenty fast to me. Well, we did have a problem, though, on that stream. we've seen the ball numerous times. Ball off that wire form. Numerous times. Yeah, and that's something that happens with wire form.
    19:53
    Or can. Yeah. Why not have a game that's ready to stream? Question mark. Right? Why not have a game ready to stream? Well. I don't get it. Maybe it got banged. Maybe it was an accident. Like you got engineered. Like I would have just been like, hold up. Let me bend this wire form so it doesn't, But Paul doesn't keep all in all. Sometimes you just got to get out the spot welder during the stream and you just got to do some welding. Eh, just take those country opinions. Wasn't that the moral of Flashdance?
    20:30
    Isn't that what we learned? You can keep that movie reference because I've not ever seen Flashdance. Okay. If you'd like to, I'll pull a Dirty Dancing and twirl your round up in the air.
    20:40
    Nobody puts Denny in a corner. See, I know that reference. Great. Flash dance. That was with the Leggings, right? 80s headband. It was the 80s, yes. What about the code? Rules?
    20:57
    Very video game. Yeah, I thought so too. It looked like Dwight was kind of moving in that direction of, let's add to the complexity of what people love in their home, millions of people, and that is some of the video gaming coding elements and tasks. Even the user interface, Dennis, was reminding me a lot, which it is not a bad thing, but it felt like more of an evolution to gaming here more so than other codes that I've seen recently. Hmm. I mean, it's not something we've seen a lot of. I've seen a little bit before where you might be able to trade something. I don't want to necessarily say it's an RPG style because it didn't seem like you were really doing leveling. But you're accumulating a currency, and then you're able to use that essentially in item shop to acquire things to help your game out. So some phone games do that. There's some like roguelikes will go with that approach. Well, we've seen that on Game of Thrones early on. And that's kind of, again, another Dwight game, kind of thinking he's toyed with this concept a bit before. I think it made more sense to me in how he explained it with this game. Absolutely. When he was walking through it, it was just – and maybe part of that is I never cared that much about the importance of those features in Game of Thrones. Whereas here it seemed really clear that turning in the Beskar and going to the Foundry and getting certain – like the stuff made really clear sense. Like getting outlaying saves, getting Adaball, being able to buy your way into starting a mission. That all makes a lot of sense to me, being like, oh, yeah, I definitely want to do that because it's going to make my gameplay experience better. I'm going to get further in the game. There was a high praise and notch on the code integration there, like that theme integration with code. And I didn't think it was too confusing. No. I never fully grasped the rules until I play, and I was having a little bit of that when Dwight was walking through all of the aspects of the game. However, I did understand the Foundry concept. Yeah, if I can understand it, listener, people can understand it. Two left targets, hit those enough, you get Beskar. That's it. And then there's a couple more moments in the game that you can gain Beskar. That's it. Yeah, they throw in a few other ways to earn it as you play. Once you get 200, you can open up the foundry, go into the foundry, and get things like Dennis said, outlaying ball saves as healing. I like that the game interface actually showed Mando, I think, visibly adding that gear to the avatar. I hadn't noticed that. That's cool. That's pretty neat. Because that's what it is in the show. He's strapping on more and more of that armor. Like the jet pack. If you get a jet pack, boom. If you get a flamethrower, boom. You're going to see it on your avatar. And that was a neat little thing. Again, I'm a broken record, but it's those little details in Dwight's code. Just like, for example, the flamethrower that you can use and the lighting.
    23:55
    Lighting doesn't have to just be for twinklies to get you to play the game. he's utilizing it as its own element. So when you hit that flamethrower button, if you have that weapon, it sprays across the playfield just as it does in the film series. And then each of those shots that are flaming are worth two times. Using lighting on purpose there that I can really, really appreciate. The lighting effects overall, I know that's not a big thing for you, Dennis, but it's already well, well-coated. There are a lot of lighting effects Now we doing a lot of that Deadpool all red during moments We going to make you pay attention thing so we have to make sure it is evenly lit for you to play because sometimes, like on Deadpool, it goes all red and it gets very dark. And we don't see the expression lighting system as an option for this title. It was too far in development. I think it was still in development when they were developing this game. They opted not to make that an option. I guess we'll just have to get out the spotlights. Mm-hmm. Or play with the lights in the room on. I know that's a shock to people, but some of us do that. Hello, darkness, my old friend. Ugh, gross. Everybody was wanting the child to move.
    25:15
    Who cares? Everyone wanted it to move before we saw it, where we thought that it was going to be. All right, let me tell you. Uh-oh. Let me tell you where I thought. Okay. There are two scenarios that could be envisioned. One was people either wanted a child toy where he had one of his hands was going to be thing from Adam's family and was going to pick up the ball and put it somewhere. Or option number two was that you were going to get a Grogu that eats the ball and it was going to be a re-sculpt of the Groot mech. That's how I saw it playing out. You weren't going to get both where Baby Yoda was going to pick up the ball and put it in his mouth like he's got a funhouse face. It was – and that would be creepy anyway. Just imagine what that would look like. Don't make the child creepy. It would be pretty creepy. So I get that. But once we saw – I mean once the stills came out, we knew this wasn't the case. So now I think it's totally fair to debate whether you would have rather have had that than a moving mini play field. But I mean, there's a BOM involved here. We can't. I've heard, you know, I heard other podcasts and read on forums and on Facebook about people talking about this. They're sort of like, oh, but how cool would it be? How cool would it be? And yes, it would be cool, but it also wouldn't earn a single more quarter on location. And you have to remember what these were designed to do. Adding in that sort of stuff doesn't make you more money. So there's no point to it. What about making 100 of them at $50,000 a pop that has no limit to a bomb? Sure. but that's so much work for so few sales. Why not just not even worry about it? And then people that want to obsess can go to Toys R Us and buy, well, I guess maybe not Toys R Us anymore, but go buy the little movie one. You know, the little one that you have that does the stupid sound effect. I hate it. I want to crush that little thing. And you just stick that in your game. Zip tie it next to your Hot Wheels.
    27:11
    See, listen to that. It's creepy. It's like E.T. Did you feel the force of your balls moving around? Yeah. So they wanted him to move. He did not move. Is that wasted space? Given how well it shoots, I can't say it's wasted space. I think it's a really good point. Look at how well. You're a distributor. I'm not going to ask you to say how many of these you've sold, but all reports are this game is doing very well. They don't need it to be better. That's just how it is. They don't need it to be better. Yeah, the statistics that I can give this listener and to you, Dennis, are a very professional term that we use in the industry. They're selling a shit ton of them. So that's my point. It's like you can talk about how much cooler it could have been. Well, Thunder Glass that you want. It doesn't matter. It's already selling like hotcakes. Yeah. Well, Thunder Glass. Why would Stern care? Why would they waste their time and cost more money to put in features that you don't need to sell the games for? Y'all are already buying them. Y'all are weak. Deal with it. It is nearly impossible to have an argument against that. It's just, as you like to say, it's math. It's just math. Numbers don't lie. Numbers don't lie, Zach. The sales are there. The game's clearly successful enough on theme alone without Grogu doing really cool stuff. And you may even question their business acumen if they decided after this sells so well, let's actually go back on our next title and add more to it and more BOM I also think another aspect especially after seeing it played as you and I have both pointed out this game has a lot of flow and speed to it all of these iterations of a Grogu toy that people have wanted are things that would dramatically slow down the game and we do have a lot of stopping with Dwight Code we have a lot of elements on this playfield listener that will stop that ball. I mean, remember Game of Thrones. He'll stop the ball. He'll make you decide. He'll make you watch something. Star Wars, same thing. We have a lot of that. I welcome that. I love that aspect. He likes to give you breaks. Yes, I really like that. And we also have a scoop here, too, that's going to force you to make some... Oh, Keith Owen hates scoops. Yeah, I know. That does look like a nicely placed scoop, though. So I'm okay with it. Keith hates it, anyway. Yeah. He hates that. He used post. It's the same thing. I wonder if in the Stern cafeteria, as he's walking, and Dwight's at the microwave wall bank, and Keith just walks by and just says, hate the scoop, and Dwight goes, talk to Brian about that. So Grogu doesn't move. I think part of me still thinks that Stern is very, very smart. They know what mod makers are capable of and what they are not. Of course they're going to come out and say, no, you can't mess with our code, no, that'll void your warranty.
    30:01
    They know what we're capable of. Hate to lose my two-month warranty. That's why it's important to have a good distributor, Dennis. Like Coin Giver.
    30:13
    Pretty good piece last week. I did like that in reference to the child top lanes, it did look like when selecting a mystery award, the ball would kind of lock up there. Mystery options would come out. Each with like a C would be this mystery award. H would be this mystery award. It throws the ball around and randomly, kind of like a bag of tail, whichever one it went into that is your mystery so it's like a physical mystery i kind of like that yeah it's an interesting use of the space at least they're using it more than just uh lighting the mystery award and i'm sure there's going to be more in the future sound effects and music really stood out to me as a highlight did you feel the same way uh i jerry always does a great job so he does it's so i it didn't stand out because i just expect It's an expectation, isn't it? It's like a zombie Yeti thing. Well, yeah. If Jerry Thompson or David Thiel is on a game, it's going to sound good. They're consistent about it. So, no, it didn't stand out to me. I just expected it to be good, and it was. I did have outreach from people noting, though, that while the sound effects were great and they loved that the music was in it, they were a little distressed at the lack of vocal call-outs from the show. I could see that. Like not ever hearing Mando. It's hard to hear Mando even when you're watching the show, but I can. That's true. This is a war. But I had someone ask, do they have the rights to use any Mando voice lines from the movies? Because we're supposed to be Mando, right? Wouldn't surprise me because the pinball community has found a way to fix that. But we did hear, I heard some female call-outs. I don't know if it was Bo-Katan or I don't know who it was. Did you just hear what I said? I said Boca Raton. Oh, no. I missed it. Oh, man. The retired Star Wars character.
    32:12
    You know, I had people asking about, you know, is Luke going to be on the screen? Ahsoka? I don't know. Get to the Wizard Mode and find out. I love these names of these people. Yeah, Luke is such a weird name. No, I'm talking about Ahsoka Choa or whatever. I don't know these people. I've looked them up on Google, though. Rule 34, whatever, Ryan had me look up. Yeah, don't do that. And shout out to a couple of you guys who, as if I didn't get enough that day, thought it would have been cute to send me more pictures of that. That was a mistake on my part. The ones from Carl Weathers were very good. Yeah, I liked his call-outs. We need to hear it more because there was a lot of talking and discussing code during the gameplay. He didn't hooper it. He didn't, okay. He didn't do that. I think jackpot, I think. Jackpot, whatever. Well, you like my game yet. Get the UV light kit and you'll like my game. Ambush tasks took a little bit more distraction than I thought they would. I talked about having distractions coded into this game. He likes that, and typically I like that as well. When I went back to the VOD and watched it, the ambush is a pretty big part of this game, and they just, points-wise, weren't worth a shit. Yeah, I'm not sure that as currently balanced that that's going to go over that well. Yeah, there's a lot of shots to get there, and the payoff was like a super jackpot on Ghostbusters.
    33:37
    So, don't know. But I am glad that co-op is back. Dwight Sullivan. People love co-op. The stern lead on co-op stuff. People do love co-op. Plus, he threw, again, very much like a video game element. Dwight threw in more game modes. So no longer are we just playing one, two, three, four-player games. You've got co-op, and he added a team play, two versus two, where it shows different colors of the teams. He added impossible play, which we touched on last week, and hero play, a little hidden feature that he showed off on the stream. Impossible play being, we can talk about that, that has a meter, a power meter for your flippers. you get too low and your flippers will kind of die. I do like the visual integration of the play field lighting up to the left all red if you're getting low on left flipper and on the right side as well. If right flipper is getting low, I think it takes twice as long to charge up the flipper. So you can't be holding up, can't be trapping up. Did you like the thought and implementation that you've seen thus far on impossible play? Yeah, I like the addition of just additional game modes in general. I think it really suits with the homeowner approach that a lot of these sales are going right now to give just different diversity ways to play. And from a party game atmosphere, I think they actually work better than traditional pinball in a lot of ways. Well, because the issue with traditional pinball, and I'm sure you've heard from others, or if you've not heard with direct conversation, if you listen to a few other podcasts, you'll definitely hear this. A common problem is if you, say, live in a family or have a bunch of friends who aren't into it as much as you are, it gets kind of annoying to wait for someone, play for 10 minutes, and then they're done in 30 seconds and you're playing in queue. Unless you've got a lot of games to keep everyone busy. That's very true. and so like when i have people over if we're doing team games what we normally do is turn on a bunch of the games like all of them and we'll start three or four player games and and everyone starts on a different game and we just start rotating but otherwise you're just standing there waiting for your turn i mean that's one of my least favorite things about playing competitive is the amount of time i'm just there waiting and then somebody gets an extra ball and you're like well we have rules for that on competitive sure sure but you know it just it can be depending on the game it can just be really tedious that's where like with co-op you know the big standout thing is even if you're bad at it it's different when you all feel like you're working together because you're everyone's contributing even if you're not doing that great you know you hit a couple of reactor shots on TNA you still helped so that sort of thing and likewise the you know when you have things like a three versus one sort of versus where the good player is going up against the three not as good players yeah and not only that so impossible play what we talked about listener where those flipper mechanisms are going to be different they're going to make it very difficult tasks within the game rules wise become more difficult as well and there's things like you don't collect extra extra balls none of that stuff so and then what we were talking you were talking about three versus one which is an option on team and T, there is an evolution to that in this game called Hero Play that Dwight has created where it is a 3v1 kind of thing, but that 1 is considered the hero, and this hero is an even bigger handicap because the hero then plays kind of the impossible play, but plays it against three people combining advancements without that flipper impossible play. Yeah, I wonder if Dwight had ever played, there's a video game called Evolve, actually, so sort of fitting with how you described it, and I wonder if he had played that, because that's a three versus one game style. Isn't that like a monster game? It is. One person's the monster, and then the three other people are the hunters that are trying to take it down, and the monster has certain capabilities because, I mean, it's different, of course, because it's not pinball. So the monster in a way has more capabilities than any individual hunter for balance purposes. But it's an interesting idea. I think all of those will go over well for those that – and anyone who doesn't care will just not play those modes. Boy, I just played a 3v1 with my family on – I think it was Mario Party on the Switch, and I was Bowser. I got to say, that was really fun. I had different tasks that I had to do compared to them, and I played them. And then you just stole all their stars anyway. It was like, whatever. Damn it, Mario. That's fun stuff. So, yeah, I like the implementation of new modes. And I got to say, I was one of the early poo-pooers on having these extra game modes. Yeah, you're one of those. I don't want to see anything. It all has to be pure. So I'm eating crow a bit, as you're going to hear in the future of this episode here. A little foreshadowing there, as you're going to hear more about that upcoming. But, yeah, eating a little crow, sucking a little crow toe on that one, because I do think, like I said, listener, last episode, I'm guessing that you're going to see Stern Internet connectivity really, really lean on some of these little mini-modes. And I can't think of a better way. When, Zach, when? I don't know. It's way behind. Well, because I think they know now that they're not the first one out of the gate. So when they do come out of the gate, they want to be the one that finishes the job. Well, okay. Well, it's starting to feel a little bit more like Duke Nukem Forever to me, but whatever. Think iPhone. Think Apple. Sure, Samsung, you can have your clunky mechanics all you want and have your extra game. Give us another year. We'll make sure people buy it. Oh, Android shade. The Android fans aren't going to like you for saying that. Does Samsung even make a phone anymore? Yeah, the Galaxy series. Okay, likely the one that you have, right? No, I have a Pixel.
    39:51
    I used to have a Samsung. I love that you own a Google phone. Before they caught on fire. So Dennis, my overall take on this game, I was very, very, very excited leading up to the stream. The stream added to my knowledge, did not increase my excitement, did not hinder my excitement. it simply held me over until i can play this game and i'm really really looking forward to owning and playing it i think this this is going to be a good one for me personally i will i know this is i'm gonna go way out on a limb this will be the best-selling game of 2021 wow that's an early call that's right with godzilla rumored to be lurking that's right and the toy story possibly in the Toy Chess next door? Oh. Doesn't matter. Wow.
    40:41
    This is the way? Quite possibly. And speaking of the stream itself, as a media provider, content creator, I always like looking at how companies decide to present their new product as a dealer, too. I wanted to see what your take was on the stream itself. I like when Stern comes out with videos. I typically like those. the podcast. It's hard. I don't think they get as much listens because it's behind that website wall, but they do that. The stream is a little bit different. It's the only content property that I think they don't do themselves. They give it to somebody else, Jack Danger of Deadflip to do it. What were your impressions of the stream or were you neutral so that I can go on a rant?
    41:27
    Well, I think I've commented on this before, but I don't agree with how Stern does this. I don't think it's the best way. I don't think it's a bad idea, but I think they definitely could make a lot of improvements. Overall, in terms of stream quality, I thought the stream quality was pretty good. It sounded like they had lapel mics, so the audio was good this time. Yeah, stream quality looked pretty, too. The video aspects looked good. There was a mobile camera that was used, and it Blair Witched me. I can't handle that. Blair Witched everybody. I get motion sick. If you don't have a gimbal. Oh, my God. Yeah, I got the idea. Like you didn't – I see the value in not having everything just be a fixed angle, but you have to have – and for people like me, you have to have stabilization or else all I feel compelled to look away because I can't handle it. The reason I do flybys is because I'm not in the way. I can do some stabilization editing afterwards, and it very much calculated what I'm doing. But, yeah, that was rough. Aside from that, overall production quality, I thought, was really good. My issue with what Stern does is, I guess I would do two things. One is the game layout walkthrough and rules explanation. I don't see any reason why that could not be done in an edited video and released before the live gameplay. 100%. So I would still do that. I like the idea of having Brian walk through those shots and Dwight spending a bunch of time and explaining all the rules. But you can encapsulate that in a video and use that to help generate hype before even the live stream. So I would do that as when they put that out on YouTube. And then the second thing is I completely do not understand why Stern is not streaming this on their own channel. 100%. They're using a third part. If you want to use someone like Jack Danger to emcee and run your event, totally understand. Hire him and have him do it. But it should be on a Stern stream, Stern property, do it on Stern YouTube or Stern set up their own Twitch if they don't have one and do it. It's like it should be routing you, in my view, to the company. And you can use third parties to do all the work for you and compensate them accordingly. But for a company as big as Stern is and as pinball having this resurgence. They're the biggest. Outsourcing the hosting seems really odd to me. It seems amateur to me. It doesn't, yeah. And I've said the same thing. Many of the other, it's the same thing when Jersey Jack has done it with Buffalo. I don't get it. Why is it not under their own channel?
    44:09
    Because it's not about the live stream. It's about people coming in later. Like the VOD being on their YouTubes and getting those clicks. I mean, look at the clicks that Straight Down the Middle has for its hosted video for GNR. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that had they not had a promo video that they did in-house, they would have probably said, hey, one of the caveats here is we're using you for the promo video. It needs to be our property. I mean, you can put that you produced it, you directed it, you filmed it, all that, but it needs to be our entity. And we would have said, yeah, that totally makes sense. Or I would have even – I mean if I was with the company, I would have been more than happy to say, hey, if you want to put this on your YouTube and we can put it on our YouTube, we're open to that too. Okay. But we should be able to have it as a resource for people who are coming to us. Because it is our product. Yeah. So it's not – again, this is all stuff I've brought up with multiple companies before that I just – and I'm not a marketing person. I'm a government hack. What do I know? So, but to me, it just seems like this is not how most organizations do their, you know, their marketing is still, everything should be funneling you to the company. Or in the case, since this is a distributor model to using the, you know, funneling people to the distributors, like what about, and I only watched for 40 minutes, but maybe, and maybe this will lead into what you wanted to talk about. Cause I know you look at it from a distributor angle, but like when I was watching those 40 minutes i never once recall seeing in the streaming of the chat or discussed on the stream how to buy one of these 100 man you're good well i'm i mean it's like i was just sitting there i'm like okay well i'm i'm learning a lot from all these explanations i'm like what if i wanted to buy one of these and i wasn't in pinball like i am i wouldn't know how to do it from this yeah do i go to stern no you can't they don't sell them on their site not that there was a link to stern showing up in the chat or on the overlays that I saw. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. So, yeah, there you go. I don't really have anything else to say about it, but those are just some general things I've wondered about this approach. Pretty objective takes there. Yeah, to piggyback off of that, you talked about why doesn't Stern have this on their own streaming channel, and I couldn't agree more. This is as a hobbyist. This is as a dealer doing business with Stern Pinball. they relinquish all control of their product and the way it's revealed and presented to the buying public. That third-party host doesn't have any skin in the game if these games sell.
    46:51
    I don't understand why Stern Pinball creates their own podcast. They do a damn good job with Nate Shivers. It's not on Coast to Coast. It's on the Stern Pinball website. We do the promo sizzle reels that you see with accessories and gameplay features and behind the scenes.
    47:10
    Stern Pinball creates that. It's all on the Stern YouTube. But then the first time that we're going to show this product actually work as it is a pinball machine, which everybody wants to see. That's the most important part. We are going to relinquish all control to an outside party. and then we have no quality standards that we can uphold during said process, that's typically a host, a director, a producer's job.
    47:42
    So whenever I hear things like, why did Dwight talk? Why did this? Well, that's a direction issue. There needs to be a lead. So we're going to relinquish all that control. the sad thing to me again from a business standpoint if i'm stern pimble i don't own any of my reveals in the past dennis that's messed up i don't own any of those yeah and that's the big i think that's the biggest thing that and and it's not and i again it's not just stern this is like calm and i think that's because everyone's taken their lead from how stern did it sure and like again to piggyback off of that you said why don't they have it all i said they relinquish control. Case in point, I am banned from that channel, from the streaming channel, the official, I call it the official Stern stream, whatever they utilize for Stern Pinball. I'm banned from that. As a dealer, a flipping out is banned. I can't interact. I can't answer questions. I can't try to drive customers to sales if they're interested. Nothing. I sit with my hands tied behind my back. They can't change that person banning me because they don't own that stream. That's just one example among many. And you said that, yeah, you didn't see any links to purchase Not only that I didn see a link on the overlay to click to find a dealer to click to play I didn even see a Stern Pinball logo on that overlay They are the manufacturers of this product that they are trying to sell Not even a logo.
    49:18
    Is Lucasfilms selling this? Is Disney selling this? To my knowledge, no. We have the Mandalorian up there.
    49:27
    Some of these things, people may say, well, Zach, it's just because there's other circumstances. That's fine, but you can't argue with this stuff. At the end of the day, I want to know, what's the goal of a live reveal stream for a product? The last time I checked, your large manufacturing companies, your large businesses, they don't showcase their product live demonstration-wise the first time you see it.
    49:58
    There's no benefit from that. The only thing that can happen is something going wrong turning people off from buying and having interest in it. So the only major goal that I can see, listener, from having a live stream showcasing a product for the first time and its functionality is viewer interaction. That's the benefit you get. You're there live answering questions. But when that doesn't happen on said live stream, what is the point? I mean, other downsides to a live game reveal? What if the game has issues? You can't pause life. The ball not staying on the habit trail? It should have been worked out before. Bulbs falling out? That's going to happen, but guess what? It is not needed for the consumer because it probably is a rare occasion. So you can edit that out. Dead or awkward air? Can't edit that out live. making off-the-cuff statements that they're not egregious, but they can be edited out.
    51:02
    I think it needs direction. It needs production. It needs organization. And we need a reminder to the consumers where they can purchase the one thing that they're presenting, which is a product. I mean, and I don't mean to beat on Stern too much, but last week I went to check on some, you know, what distributor setups were like with Stern, and I went to the Stern site and started going through the distributor list and multiple broken links.
    51:28
    I didn't know if these distributors still existed or if their websites just changed. It's like they don't even have that cleaned up. But given that, given the inability to keep their own website updated, makes me suspect that they might have a number of issues that they really should be working on here that would better help people. I mean, again, that's how you go and buy games. It's hard to argue because I know from a personal standpoint, a business standpoint, the individuals that do work on this. They're some of my favorite people in pinball. The marketing crew over there at Stern, the creators, the designers, the coders. It's hard to beat the awesome group at Stern Pinball. So when they make decisions like this continually over and over, I just don't understand it. I do understand it. I think because they're so busy that it's easier to not change from what has been done than it is to make it right.
    52:25
    Because everything we're talking about would take work versus, hey, can you come and get your contractor, do what you did last time? And it's not that you can't contract the work out. You don't have to do everything. You don't have to have a stern employee who's going to run the stream for you. You don't have to do that. You can bring in an outsider. But your case in point about who owns and controls the video, the VODs when they're done, is an excellent one. Every time I contract in my job, I make sure I get possession of the product. Sure. Dennis, I went to watch the VOD. I went to Stern's YouTube page.
    53:01
    It wasn't there. I thought, oh, that's right. One would think even after getting a live stream, you would then upload the VOD onto Stern's pinball. No. They don't even get to do that. Well, I don't know if they don't get to do that or they don't even think about asking to do it. Surely they do. I'm sure that they could put it into the terms of the agreement, though. I mean, it's their product. They have the power in the relationship. Sure. Yes. And one of the main reasons I get so prickly about this is because I have fun creating stuff like that. I pride myself. I know a lot of you listeners do, too, when you get to create something. I want anything I put my name on to be special. but if I put myself in a host position in something like that, how many times did that host refer people to purchase? Zero. How many times did a host remind viewers that they were going to take this game home for one-to-one time for the viewers? So if you guys don't like this, just wait. I'm going to take this game home for free and put it on my own channel.
    54:05
    What is the purpose? That's all. I think there are two better options here for Stern Pinball. You can keep the host. Jack does a terrific job on a lot of things. He does highly entertaining to a lot of people. I'm not saying change that. But number one, a highly produced program similar to the Stern Heads Up Invitational. What would be wrong with that? That's a gameplay, and that was beautifully done. Or you can do a live stream. If you're gung-ho about this live stream, which, again, to me, from a business standpoint, manufacturers should not do live streams. Let the consumers do that. Put your best face forward on your products. But if you want to do a live stream, have a director, producer, a host, all in one that is willing to have a vision. Do some pre-planning. Segment it with videos and then answering live questions. I'm going to visualize real quick, 30 seconds here, listener. you turn on to the twitch stream live stream of the new stern pinball game your entertaining host opens up the show with a plan hey everybody i'm so glad you came to the reveal of the brand new stern pinball product and game x we've got a lot in store for you today first i want to introduce to you the team that made this possible quick introductions hey this is dwight sullivan on code He's done such things as blah, blah, blah. Brian Eddy, legendary designer. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're going to turn you guys over now to a quick overview. Two minutes. Video to get you equipped for the next gameplay. Transitions to a video. You get to learn the quick points from Dwight. That's fine. Boom, boom, boom. Quick snazzy slick right back to a table. sitting with the host and some of the creators. Hey guys, man, I've seen in that video, you guys showcasing this, this, and this. What can you tell us further about this? I see a question in chat here from MandoFreak69 asking, let's go ahead and press start, play a game, pre-recorded, goes right back. You can even have the creators talking over that gameplay. What the player's doing now, they've started ambush. they're going to try to get three bump bump bump bump if the creators go long on their speech that's where that director and host steps in gives them a little signal an hour boom leave them wanting more go out play the game on location or go get one yourself it's more work to set that up is your product not worth that work i'm not saying that first impressions are everything i'm just saying if they're not keeping up with sales right now stern may they just i just i don't think they feel any pressure to change from what they're doing because they're selling games that's a good argument it's a good argument i i just i think they could position i think they could build their brand up faster if they would make modifications from what the status quo is not it's not professional enough it's like they're not they're not possessing enough of the items they could structure things in a way that would better lead into excitement than how they do it i just think they found that this satisfied like the hardcore and so they just keep doing it and so i expect that they'll keep doing it this way i agree broadly that like live streams aren't the best way at all anyway to probably present the game because too much can go wrong with this i think it would be i would be okay with them still doing a live stream after everything else like i would still do your your documentary style you could have a controlled video of showing some play which is edited to keep out the like, have a trail issues and such. And you do all that, and then you do a live stream where you are trying to mostly do Q&A or for the hardcore. But you know, like, for example, if I were doing a live stream, and if I ran Stern Media Marketing, and I was going to do a live stream, first thing I would do is say, well, where are most of my followers? For Stern, it's on Facebook. And that's where I'd stream it. That's an even better... I wouldn't set up a Twitch channel and have it as my launch area. If your goal is exposure, you need to go where you have most of your people at, and that is for them facebook i believe more than their youtube but also stern has employees with streaming experience so if they wanted to set up a twitch channel that's something i've kind of wished just like if you wanted to have that as a part of your just sort of brand awareness model i always thought wouldn't it be cool if stern like once a week like on tuesdays from from noon to one the lunch break yeah four of their four of their employees are going to just play it not not the not a reveal just play a game. One game. Yeah. Keith Elwin, Raymond Davidson, Zach Sharp, and Tim Sexton. Boom. That's a hell of a lunch break. And didn't JJP for a while used to do something like that? They do a little stream. They were doing like a weekly stream thing. I think this is back with Wampum. JJP Live. Yeah. Yeah, just do this. Yeah, okay, you stole it from JJP. So what? It was a good idea. Nothing original. Yeah, it's just company stream. It's just something so people like, you know, again, that's more to appeal for the hardcore and to tell, you know, just to keep them, It's just keep the awareness there. Yeah. And it goes back to what is the goal of a live reveal stream? They need to answer that. And I think that if I were to try and trace what the root of this is, I think it just gets back to mentally that's sort of how they feel like how shows were. It used to be a show reveal at an expo. And that's kind of where I think that's where the mentality comes from, even though from an online perspective, it is not the best way to do it. And you said yourself they're selling them so well that at the end of the day, does it matter? My argument would be it always matters. And look, they are selling them. Speaking of, as we transition to the next story, selling like hotcakes or Stern pinball accessories. And there is a new one that is now shipping. It's the Avengers Infinity Quest shooter rod. Oh.
    60:10
    It's been hard to play without the shooter rod so far. I know. It's a tough one. You guys will have to check out the Straight Down the Middle promo video. It's a parody. It's satire, people. But check that out as people are now receiving their Infinity Quest shooter rods. Pretty little thing. I like when they illuminate those shooter rods. Let's jump over to Jersey Jack Pinball. They've been teasing some accessories as well. shooter rods uh mate i don't know actually i know that they were teasing a topper for guns and roses those individuals you love toppers i know they said it's going to be much more affordable than any of the counterparts too oh burn oh i think it was just tempering everybody's expectations a little bit like guys don't freak out we just want to make sure that if you want something on top of your standard or an LA, well, we've got you set. I'm excited about that. I think they have some art blades they may be working on and maybe a shooter on. I don't know about that. A lot of discussion over the forum, social media right now, have been discussing the collector's edition Guns N' Roses. Some of the owners are showing some play-filled chipping again. Chipgate? Chipgate again, 3.0, around some of the posts, and it's making its rounds again on social media. We didn't know that it was happening to the CEs, I guess. I don't know what the news is here. Probably the same issues they were having with the early run Standard and Ellies or the Stern was having with theirs. I guess even 12,500 can't protect you from Chipgate. That's what people's arguments are. And not even 12,500 at this point. Did they think they were going to get better clear? I don't know. They thought, well, I think JJP, I don't think they ever formally said it is resolved. I don't recall hearing that it was fixed. But, you know, all of these companies have always been super cagey about what the issue is and when it's been fixed. And I don't know if this is a thing where it was happening less so, but now that it's been made more of an issue, that's why people are coming out. I don't know what it is. All I can do is report facts and evidence based on my experience. As a dealer, we sold a lot of CEs. I had one person message me last night that said they were concerned with some of the things that they were seeing on their game. I told them to send me pics. I'm awaiting those. But other than that, my CE looks perfectly fine. My LE had chipping. My Wonka LE had chipping. but my Wonka CE and my GNR CE, my personal games, there's not one issue to them. So I don't know how widespread this issue is. I can say as a hobbyist and a dealer, it sucks. It's a problem. I want them to fix the problem.
    63:08
    Is JJP still operating under the there are no more free play field exchanges? From pretty much all that I've heard, yes. They send out a washer kit to hide some of that damage. Now, that may be different if you pull it out of the box and it already has that. But otherwise, I think their warranty suggests that it is merely a product of gameplay. Okay. Well, they can do that. I worry that JJP is going to sabotage their future sales of high roller collectors if they treat them like that. I mean, rich people don't like being told that they just have to eat it. Yeah, it's tough when you're buying that top edition. I'm just saying, if I paid $12,500 in under 100 plays, I had shipping, and then you told me that you're going to give me some washers, but otherwise I'm going to have to buy another play field from you, and that this was somehow normal, I would be like, okay, well, I'm between a rock and a hard place, so I guess I have to take it, and I sure won't be buying Toy Story. Well, that's the beauty of if you were to call me with flipping out pinball, because it may, in fact, you know what, I guarantee you, that it would be different. Well, not to brag, Zach, but if I had an issue and I called JJP, it would be different also. Oh.
    64:27
    Do you know who I am? The second nicest. I'm kind of a big deal. That's right. I'm the second nicest person in the building. You're sweet crazy. I've wondered that, though. I've wondered if I would be treated differently. That wouldn't be fair. Some people suggest that, yeah, us big mouths sometimes are treated differently. I don't know. That's not right. But all I can do is control because people preaching. I heard a little bit of EGP discussion last week about direct model, direct sales from these manufacturers. And I'm going to kind of throw my hands up on stuff like this and say, hey, for all those arguing, why do we need dealers? Why do we need distributors? Okay, make your bed. because if somebody comes to me with an issue, me as flipping out pinball, Nicole and I do everything we can to go above and beyond. And I don't want to make this a plug, but remember that next time you hear people saying, we don't need distributors. All right. Okay. Let's talk about something not associated with flipping out pinball, and that's Haggis pinball. At the time of this recording, I believe the window has closed, Dennis, for the Fathom Revisited Mermaid editions to be purchased. They're under the water. that's down where it's hotter damn it now you just such a hard life you lead i had last back around when we're recording this i'd heard there were about 30 of the mermaids left oh nicely done there that's what my sources say see dr john that's how it's done the mermaid cave holes have closed gone forever uh they're going to start production in july They're in their new place, and they have a new employee.
    66:10
    Here at TPN on the Final Round Pinball Podcast with Martin Robbins, he officially announced that he is an official employee of Haggis Pinball. Congratulations, Martin. Congratulations. Huge congratulations. He's going to do very, very, very well by them. I was interested in his job title. He said his job title was game designer, Dennis. I thought maybe like a rules creator. Well, he's doing rules on Fathom Revisited, but maybe he's working on a layout.
    66:40
    They did say that they're going to do these retro remake kind of things, but they're certainly not going to be back to back to back to back to back to back. And, of course, their first game was an original.
    66:50
    Marty! Hello, darkness, my old friend. Marty's making something over there. That's awesome. What about Deep Root? Who's making games over there? Oh, man. Low-hanging fruit. Sorry. partner. Kerry Hardy recently posted a video regarding Deep Root on his YouTube channel, providing some behind the scenes information sourced by a former Deep Root employee. How serious do you take someone's report of a source that is not open? Well, it's, I mean, it's less than ideal. I don't dismiss out of hand the quote unquote anonymous source thing it's it's best you know normally and carrie is a youtube channel he's not running around as a journalist but you know normally you would try and have more than one source even if you knew who they were the biggest issue i have with it as a former employee is i have no context because that's all we were told like i don't know if they were out of the utah studio animator or if they were or did he or did he indicate were they an engineer i don't remember no i don't remember i don't think because there was a lot of talk about an engine about engineering so then i thought maybe this is an engineer but it would have been helpful to know what the employee's field was just so we could have a little bit better like it would have helped me with context on the discussion like if it's someone who's working just on the mechanical side of things they might not know what's going on on the software front or on the logistics of purchasing the supplies but if they were a logistics manager they would know about the supply chain issues that would also might not truly know if john papaduke was a problem or not well per this former employee based on carrie hardy's video robert mueller is 99 of the problem not john papaduke and you see that would completely depend on what position the employee absolutely i'm not i'm not saying that's inaccurate it could have been a janitor yeah well exactly if you're a janitor in a building then yeah the boss is probably your problem if you quit because of someone not some other employee that you don't answer to kept buying a scratchy toilet paper one ply that's my yeah half ply that's Mueller so yeah I did hear this video Kerry Hardy did report that employees were not being consistently paid whoops that is not a good sign that's a bad one I used to work at a bank and let me tell you something Zach we had a few businesses that banked with us for their payroll and they would not always have enough money to play their pay their employees those were hard fridays oh i guarantee you because you couldn't tell the employees why you couldn't cash their checks because of privacy and it got it got to the point this is how snarky i was because i got i got in trouble once because i did tell someone about a business account and then i had to go into the bank president he's like you're not allowed to do that where are you dumb no feisty i'm like i was like 16 or 17 but still it was a mistake so but being being Dennis, I adapted to this guidance. And when I had people that could not have their checks cashed, ideologically, I have a problem with people who have earned money being unable to get their hard-earned paycheck. I would tell them, I cannot cash your check. I'm not allowed to tell you why. All I will say is I want you to think of all the possible reasons why someone could not cash a check, and you'll probably understand the answer. I'm not pulling elbows here. And about half the time they'd go, like if there's not enough money in the account. And I said, that would be a good example. Yes. It would be a great example. You have a nice day now. Bye-bye. And they'd take it out on you. Have a nice day not being able to feed your kids. Well, then fine. Give me my goddamn sucker. Hello, darkness, my old friend. Yeah, I would. I'd let them have the dum-dums. We always had dum-dums. Give them the suckers to try and keep their kids alive. And, oh, gosh, you're going to make me go on a banking rant. because the other thing I had a problem with is people who owned businesses or were seen as of means we waived all their bank fees poor people we hit with fees all the time oh that's bad yeah people you bounce it back then it was only like 15 bucks but you bounce a check 15 every check bounce bounce somebody needing it and then oh well this person owns the diner so I'm like they they're bouncing business checks what a hoity-toity bank did you have different suckers for the pro with the premium le's i got it i got i got in trouble gosh i guess i got in trouble a lot in my younger day i got in trouble for way i started just i wouldn't charge i started waiving fees for poor people oh good for you i couldn't wave i couldn't like wave the bounce checks i went through bookkeeping but like if people came there were people that because they got in trouble for bouncing checks they needed money orders to pay their bills i wouldn't charge them for the money orders and then we got set aside and told no you need to start billing these people for the money orders but anytime a business owner came in and they wanted cashier's checks which carry even higher fees, waived. Waive, waive, waive. They go get a bank manager and they waive them. Waive all the fees. Did you quit that job or did you get fired? I did. No, please. Who would fire me?
    71:48
    No, I quit. I did that job through high school and college. But I was not a bank teller for that whole period. I moved down into the loan department and was a clerk. A banker for the people. They got me away from working directly with a lot of clients that did anything but owe us money. So I worked with the... Yeah, that probably shaped a lot of how I view things about how I thought people weren't treated right. I love it. I just love it. Anyway, to me, there was a lack of fairness to it. And life may not be fair, but that doesn't mean we can't run our organizations fairly. So anyway, back to this story and all of this and not knowing about the former employee. So yeah, that's okay. So the payment issue, that's what my story was about. Not consistently paid. That's a big one. That is a huge, it could be a huge red flag. What's the reason? Unless there wasn't money other than forgetting to give them paychecks, which we use software nowadays, so that's not an issue. Yeah. And you can't forget things like that or you also, yeah, that's like a one time. That's like a one time forget. You don't get a second. And I think if it happened once, it may not be an issue that is coming up now that people are talking about. Engineering was also another thing that this video brought up at length, such as Dennis Nordman, we know that he left. This video by Kerry Hardy indicated that he left because they couldn't get an engineer to help design his games with him. I thought he mentioned that on another interview Dennis did as well. Yeah, he said they couldn't get the games made or something. Barry Ausler, even per this video, said that Food Truck, their upcoming announced Deep Root title, is struggling to finish because of an engineering deficit. Now Kerry Hardy reports that many of the engineers that Deep Root had or do have were kind of green really new quote fresh out of college he described it And they been instructed to work on Raza Kerry Hardy indicated that one seasoned engineer that they needed desperately decided to leave because of the inconsistent pay schedule It's a bad cycle. I wondered if the seasoned engineer is the source. Ah, it could be. This undisclosed former employee also reportedly told Kerry Hardy that a lot of their delays and what was killing the company was, quote, the fucking pin bar.
    74:09
    He talked about they could crank out Raza's like the ones that we all seen at the Houston show, but the implementation of that damn pin bar is what was causing issues and delays immensely. I've wondered if, and I don't know at this point if it's really a design issue because I would assume the pin bar is fully designed, but the chip shortage. You're aware of the chip shortage? Absolutely. I know someone who's got a pickup truck on order. It's on order because they don't have the chips to finish them. A pin bar might as well be a Nintendo Switch. I mean, it is an electronic device. Right. But the thing is, Deep Root is a nothing company in the grand scheme of versus the Nintendos and the Fords of the world. If they're needing the same chips or the same company or the same factories, how far down on the list are you? There's a hierarchy there. Yeah. How far down on the list are you when you're not even planning to release 200 RASs? The chipmaker is like, should I send 10,000 to Ford for a month's worth or 15 to Deep Root in Texas? Especially if they have to change up their line or something to make these special pin bar chips. Yeah, yeah. Kerry Hardy believes one of the biggest issues that Deep Root is facing is the amount of pride that Robert has. Kerry Hardy quotes the sourced former employee saying, quote, he, referring to Mr. Mueller, himself could do what they're doing, but he doesn't have the time.
    75:29
    End quote. He's talking about that's how Robert Mueller would interact with the bunch, acting like, oh, he could do all of this. He don't know why it's taking so long, but he just didn't have the time to do it. there's a lot of whitewoods at Deep Root because the designers really are struggling to have something else to do, waiting on engineers to come on board. Further question marks when it comes to this company. Do they get something out? The whitewood confirmation is no shock. When they revealed how many titles they had in development, that was my thought was, you've got this many because you have this stable full of pinball designers, and you're not releasing anything, so all they can do is come up with new games. Many of which are used to designing older, more simpler games too. I don't know what to say about Deep Root. They sent an update out that said for those of you who have pre-ordered or paid for your Raza, if you want your money back, you can do so. Yeah, I saw that. I don't know what else to say about it. Pride gets in the way of a lot of people, but not me.
    76:26
    Yeah, never you. Come one, come all, come to the show that we like to call The Pinball Show Presents, sponsored by the Pinball Network presented by... Flippin' Out Pinball? This is the way? I don't know what this is anymore. I just like to call it PINBALL!
    76:48
    Market Trends! Had to take a breath there. Shit. Used all of my energy on the market. I wonder if your kids, when they hear that, they're like, oh, the recording's almost done. Daddy screamed it. Daddy's finally going to pay attention to us. Finally eat. Daddy's almost done. Kids, blink twice if you need me to send you dum-dums. turning up this week at Stern Pinball's Game of Thrones.
    77:10
    What? Wrong epic. No, it is Game of Thrones. Okay, well, the numbers don't lie. I only report the facts here. Maybe this is backed by Dwight Sullivan being in the news and people feeling some Beskar rules bleeding from this Game of Thrones game. But if you look at the secondary market, it has taken a bit more of an uptick. Game of Thrones is getting up there a little bit more than ever. I remember when premiums, hell, you could get those for low sixes. They were trying to give away LEs, high sixes, low sevens. Right now, those days are gone. Game of Thrones. And the show's not relevant anymore. I don't know where this is coming from. People like how that game shoots. Yeah. I mean, other than the art, most people seem to be pretty pleased with where it's at. But it's getting a little bit of resurgence here. And this isn't pinball ideology market trends. So I don't know. But if you're wanting a premium, you're now paying $7,000 to $7,300. If you're getting an LE, those are back up closer to $9,000 again. Pretty good, Stern. Nicely done with Game of Thrones. But man, that artwork. Also turning up this week is Stern Pinball Accessories. We know that the shooter rod is shipping for Avengers, and we know how hot the toppers are. I wonder, as we're getting into more release titles, Dennis, if we start seeing other Stern accessories take the same or similar trajectory. The example that I would showcase is the Mandalorian armor that is selling better than any armor that I've ever seen. For the most part, as a dealer, the armor, you grab a couple sets. Somebody's going to want it. It comes out late. It's kind of a side blades always sell better. Shooter knobs, believe it or not, always sell better. Shaker motors always. It's kind of the low item on the totem pole when it comes to accessories. But that Mando armor? It's because of difficulty on, like, some of these things are easier to install. That's a good, possibly. I know the Stern pinball armor is easy to install because they don't put an adhesive on the back, I don't believe, of their side rails. So it's probably just as easy, if not easier, than a shaker motor. certainly less intensive than side blades.
    79:31
    Our blades, I mean, you're getting out Windex. Some people are taking out the play field. One of the easier mods to add, but this Mandalorian armor, whew, it's on fire right now. And shooter rods. They're really making a push as well. Do we start seeing, we've seen that Jurassic Park stop selling for a little bit and go up in the $500 range for a shooter knob. I think we're going to start continuing to see these accessories evolve. Some scarcity, maybe to the point of purposeful scarcity to drive those prices up. I don't know. But the Mando armor is where it's at.
    80:07
    Also training up this week, I'm in a festive mood. So we're going to keep training up, and it's going to be Half Shell Challenge. Have you heard of this, Dennis? Yep, I've heard of it. I told you before, I poo-pooed all these little modes. I don't want to see the damn wizard mode. That's a side note. On Mandalorian, Dwight, I love you. You're my babe. But why are you showing me the wizard mode? And that cool of a wizard mode? Staging balls? No. Don't show me that. Buy me dinner before you expose yourself. Damn. I want to work my way up to that. But half shell challenge is not a wizard mode. I've heard Joel Engelberg from just another pinball podcast and stream drone on. Oh, I'm a half shell challenge. You got to play it. No, Joe. Nobody wants to play that shit. I just want to play the game. Well, guess what? Zach was wrong. I did finally. I listened to him. Usually I space out when people start talking about rules I don't give a shit about. I listened to him on his recent stream. I think it was something flipping out. And he gave a tutorial, nicely done tutorial, on the half shell challenge and how it differed from normal gameplay and how it differed from the final battle. I played this thing myself, and I'm addicted.
    81:26
    This, in and of itself, is enough to put online, connectivity-wise, it would be a hit. This is such a fun game that I'll probably play it more so in the next three months than I do the gameplay itself. It's damn near perfect. It's very simple. It's engaging. and it is so fun to try to get sub 100 second thresholds that I challenge you listener to try it yourself. I finally did it. So you guys are right. I was wrong on that. Don't you dare coders think this is okay to do wizard modes as a fast pass. I don't want that. Nobody wants that. No. Anytime a person wants to play a wizard mode, you know what they should have to do? They should have to feel like a pathetic fool opening up that glass and putting their little grubby ass fingers on those switches to get there. Don't fast pass that. But half shell challenge? Continue with stuff like this. Hero mode? Absolutely. Give us options. Give us choices. Thank you, Stern Pinball. Damn, that was three trending ups for Stern. Should we make it four? Trending up this week is Washington State. I've done this before and Dennis rolls his eyes and gets all pissy, but I'll do it again. Washington State, the state of Washington, for some reason, I can't get enough of you. And obviously, you guys cannot get enough of flipping out pinball. We have sold more pinball machines in the state of Washington over the last month than any neighboring state combined.
    82:58
    What the hell is that about, Dennis? I don't know. Washington State? I mean, per capita pinball popularity up there is really high. Maybe that's what I'm guessing. It was a good word of mouth. I don't know what is going on. I don't know. Maybe if we can mention flipping out pinball a couple more times, Delt can be right.
    83:17
    Does Delt live in Washington State? No, they wouldn't have him. That's mean. His kind resides in Pennsylvania.
    83:27
    Philly. Are you thinking Philly? I'm not going to throw out a city. You're thinking Philly, aren't you? I'm not going to throw out a city, but I guess the Pennsylvania. Where's all my Pennsylvania love? But Washington State, I could not thank you as a state enough. The utmost respect and love for you guys. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Right now, you're my number one state. Not going to lie. Where are you at, Texas? Come on. Oklahoma. Don't be slackers. Kansas. Well, I mean, it goes without saying. I had someone send me a message saying that they thought that you actually would give me the first pro. Oh, really? I was like, no, we've had that conversation. Zach does not prioritize me over his precious locations. If I gave you the first pro, it could not be public. I'll say that. There are reasons. It cannot happen. We have to keep Zach above board. Publicly, it cannot happen. I threw a little shade there. Kansas is another big flipping out state. I love you guys. I don't know why I promoted CoinTaker so heavily. CoinGiver over here. Look, I quit my job, so all of this is even more appreciated now. Everything really matters. You're all out on a limb. I know. Oh, the EGP distributor discussion must have really stung now. It did. It did, and we discussed, and it was a good discussion I thought we had. Maybe I'll show up sometime if I'm invited on EGP and we can discuss more of that. I don't know. We're so busy. Yeah, it's fine enough. Turning down this week, the Collected Get... Oh, no. Turning down this week is Jurassic Park Data East Edition. Aw. I don't know why. It's a lovely game. Elwin hates it. Well. That's probably why. He doesn't like it. That does tend to skew things a bit, but Lost World was great. All the Jurassic Park games are really fun. I like them all. But for some reason, the data east continues to kind of flood the marketplace recently. And we see it jump up in all these other prices, but this one not so much. Back down to the mid-threes. Three thousands. So if you're looking for a nice, clean Jurassic Park, you don't need to pay $4,000 anymore for it. Pay $3,500. Go pick it up. Cash. And if you've got a routed one, don't even try asking more than three for it. Stop. Upper twos. It's back down. Greg Bone, you tight ass. It's time to buy, buy, buy. Buy, buy, buy. Speaking of buy, buy, buy, I do not have a deal of the week this week. I'm sorry. You're not going to save a buck. You're not going to save two. But you're going to gain a laugh because, boy, oh, boy, this week's deals of the week.
    85:58
    I have so many deals of the WTF this week, listener. I don't even know what to pick from. I could have a whole show out of this. I'm not going to, Dennis. Last week was a doozy. I don't know if you heard that one, Dennis, but it was right up your alley. That was a joke. I think it's wedged somewhere in between you and Ryan making fun of me constantly. Oh, we just mentioned that. I think I heard some market trends in there somewhere. Well, like a wig on ET. Yeah, like that. Because it looked odd, just like you would look odd with a wig on, that's all. nothing not that i had to edit a couple parts out there because no i don't know what that was nothing but love i don't know who loves you more me or ryan c i don't know maybe you're overrated dill the wtf this week the highlight in the showcase fat train out of sacramento california looking all cool with your avatar with your shades on at least you're wearing your seatbelt and your blue blazer. He's trying to sell The Matrix. It's a lifetime opportunity to own several extremely rare pieces of pinball history. You get a combo deal here. The Matrix, Johnny Mnemonic serial number one, and the only known Johnny Mnemonic prototype, Whitewood. So you get three games in one. It's a very Keanu theme. All of them are the same game, but only one of 12 in the world of The Matrix. 100% custom rebuilt game. We all know about the Matrix. And if not, go look that up. A group did that. I've always wanted this pen because I like Johnny Mnemonic and I love the Matrix. You've got your chance. Not for this price.
    87:40
    $125,000 firm. He can suck an egg. Sell, sell, sell. $125,000. I know it's rare. I know the Matrix pen could probably go for some big bucks. I get that. But what is Johnny Mnemonic's serial number one going for? he didn't even talk about condition if it's in nice condition five grand maybe johnny mnemonic only prototype whitewood another five you're at 10 grand i'll push i'll give you 15 for the pair which is crazy i think is over overdone but 15 you're down to 110 000 there's no way in hell The matrix right now, even in this overinflated market, 50K tops.
    88:23
    That's it. When I could pay employees to build this thing and still come out less than $120,000, then it's overpriced. So when you pay your employees to do it, to prove that it can be done, are you going to walk by and tell them how you could have done it but you're too busy?
    88:42
    We're telling them it should have been live streamed when I reveal it. Maybe. I don't know. Another deal of WTF this week is on Pinside by Chief G. I think Chief G is a good person outside of Richmond, trying to sell Black Knight Sword of Rage Premium for $9,900. Come on, Chiefy. Chief and Crack over there. You think someone's going to pay? It's got the topper, though, Zach. Well, that's fine. $9,900 minus $1,500, Dennis. Last time I checked, it was $8,400. And numbers don't lie. We only report the facts here at the Pinball Show. And $8,400 for a Black Knight Sword of Rage premium, used or new, is crazy. Maybe the crazy train can meet the fat train. And they can both, uh... Do them a locomotion?
    89:25
    Damn it, Dennis! Everybody's doing a brand new dance now! What's so bad to sing that everybody's doing a locomotion? But you can't. We have rules on the Pinball Show here on the Pinball Network. Oh, come on. Come on. No. Locomotion. Nope. And that was Pinball Market Trends, non-live edition.
    89:57
    Closing time here at the Pinball Show. Dennis Creasel, where can people find you besides the pinballnetwork at gmail.com? Yeah, well, that might eventually get to me if they email there, but it's easier to email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast and just shoot a message that way, and I will see it. Very nice. And if you guys are like me and are outraged by some of the things that Tony has been saying lately, go ahead and email them and let them know that Zach's right and Tony's just being mean. Feedback has been surprisingly good on that episode, other than when he attacked Stadia.
    90:32
    Oh, good. I didn't make it that far because that was one of the only EGP shows I fucking turned off. And I emailed you guys, and I was like, here's my impression of me. Dennis and Tony. What the fuck?
    90:47
    Got my eye on you, Tony. Got my eye on you. He won't hear. He doesn't listen to this show. I know he doesn't because he doesn't have good taste. There, I said it. You can catch me at Straight Down the Middle, a YouTube video series, talking about all things rubber band. When are you doing the rubber band collector? We're working on it. Because I want to hear that one. Planning. See, we don't jump into something. That better be the first one you do. Oh, wow. That would be smart. you can email us at sdtmpinball at gmail.com and i have another email for the other branch of the show but i forgot it right now sorry if you're ready to buy a brand new pinball machine do so not direct from the manufacturer believe me don't do that buy it from somebody that's going to support you when your play field has a hiccup or a coil is on the fritz when in doubt you've seen the promo flipping out flipping out pinballs product showcase this week is a mandalorian pro and premium go ahead and pre-order yours now the line is long better be patient but i'm i've been pushing stern come on guys come on guys get rid of some of these runs of older games for a little bit run yeah i'm sure you've motivated them to change their entire manufacturing plan oh i know i'm like you're so influential here's my huge order and i'm willing to wait but please make them faster it'd be like that yeah that's true other games that are in stock ready to go include jurassic park pro by stern pinball stranger things pro getting low on that though and remember they're not running them at least this year so once they're gone they're gone turtles pro question mark i think i have one left turtles premium led zeppelin pro led zeppelin premium Hot Wheels. I can't say I have it in stock.
    92:31
    I think they have them in stock. I'd have to double check. We do have the Jurassic Park Arcade Shooter Home Edition in stock. A lot of banners, a lot of accessories. I think, I don't know if we have any more of the Avengers shooter knobs, but email us. If not, you can buy direct. Alien pre-orders, etc., etc., etc. Last week at TPN, Final Round Pinball Podcast at Episode 34, and it was inside of a hot tub with ron and bruce yeah wow do you think there was uh extra bubbles in there because of bruce i have to okay i feel bad i actually had to fast forward through that part of the podcast because the bubble sound effect was so loud in my ears like i was having trouble following the speech interesting it seemed probably well balanced for most people but for me I was just like, I couldn't stand hearing the bubbles. I forgot what I was playing it on. Skip, skip, skip. Because it matters sometimes what you're playing, but it was fine for mine. I get a lot of crap for that for balancing issues. Yeah. For someone who prides himself on being such a content creator, your audio balance issues have been legendary. I would love, here recently, have they been bad? No, no. I haven't noticed them as much really. It's so hard. We've seen a lot of people. All I have is that meter, the decibel meter. And I balance. You've got the meter. And I balance both channels. Look, I don't know what to tell you, Zach. I don't know either. My biggest issue is just when you put out the podcast and it's a quarter of a gig in size because you encoded it at such a high level.
    94:04
    Last final round was big, too. Yes, I noticed that. I downloaded it this morning. I was like, whoa, this thing. And did Zach edit it? That's actually what I thought. Oh, cute. Off the Record had a new podcast submission, and I think this one might go the distance. It was called On the Record. Oh, that's cute, guys. Nicely done. On the Record Pinball Podcast. You didn't like that? I thought it was cute. I liked it. It was a little too clever for its own good.
    94:33
    Hosted by a three-headed monster. Nobody you know. Just an actual three-headed monster. No, it was Travis Meary, competitive pinball player and content creator himself, Travis Meary, joining the dark side of TPN, potentially. Tom Graff, who is maybe the most lovable person at TV. He carried the show. He just really worked in that format. I didn't know he only would buy LEs. That was so neat. It's not true. I'm spreading it. He is the sweetest man, and he's already been thrown into the Zach Bing. It's all over the hobby. Tom is an LE-litist. Elitist.
    95:09
    Elitist. Yeah, elitist. Might edit that one out for a t-shirt possibility. uh so tom graff love you there and joel engelberth just another pinball podcast david dennis's favorite favorite cohort over at tpn tpn this week more new podcasts question mark maybe i'm getting ready to upload another off the record more puppets where in the hell are the puppet pals i don't know where the puppets are and before we close out the show i want to take some time and express our thoughts going out to Greg, a fellow pinball enthusiast and player. He's on Pinside, known as Pin Lawyer. I've had interactions and dealings with Greg. Nothing but wonderful and terrific. Good, good dude. He was recently diagnosed with a pretty aggressive endocrine illness, and there's no words really to express how to make that better because you can't. He's clearing out some of his collection. so if you're interested he he kept the nicest machines on pence side so can't vouch for him enough there and nothing that i i hate all the cliche stuff i don't know what to say in these situations this shit sucks and this is corny but i do feel this is true we are a big family in a lot of ways especially on like the forum social media and and content and stuff and we got your back if you need anything you've provided a lot for this community uh as a friend so please reach out let us know as a family and as a community if we can help in any way thank you great and for the pinball show and for dennis creasel i'll always be your zach many and i'll say to always remember when one chooses to walk the way of the mandalore you are both hunter and pray. And always practice safe pinball. And come on, baby, do the magic hand thing. Up. So long, everybody. Hello, darkness, my old friend.
    97:10
    Yeah, Reese's Pieces are a very underappreciated candy. I prefer them to the cup itself. I agree. And I like them more than... You know there's a peanut butter M&M now.
    97:24
    Yeah, it's a good try, but no. It is. It's an attempt. but I still just don't see the value in such a thing when you have the Recypiece available.
    97:33
    And you thought the T in E.T. stood for extra testicles. Extra testicles? It's an extra texticle, Mom. I have three of the testicles.
    97:43
    E.T. well hung. I always wondered where that little guy's dick was. It's in that stretchy neck. Oh, man.
    97:57
    When my eyes were strained by the flash of a neon light It's with the night It's the sound of silence