Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome to episode number 15. It's one five of Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. My name's Ken Cromwell. With me today is Greg Bone. Greg, what's happening with you, buddy? Just living life, ready for the holidays. Had a great Thanksgiving. Living la vida loca. yes yes yes yes yes uh you know i'm just in that holiday mode man like i am i'm so i'm just ready ready for christmas ready for all that stuff uh thanksgiving was nice zach was gracious enough to give us a four-day weekend which was fantastic it was nice so that kind of spoiled me i was talking to you earlier i had uh i took vacation when i was in between jobs so i've taken four days off this year so to get like four days off in a row in november was actually pretty pretty nice i was happy oh it felt so good especially as busy as what we've been it's been so crazy like it was a nice uh recharge man i think you need that reset every now and then yeah i was surprised how busy it gets in the holidays i thought i mean i figured to be a little bit of an uptick but it's been uh it's been consistent it really hasn't been slow here so that's yeah pretty remarkable it's crazy how many people you'll be surprised about how many people like buy pinball machines for people for christmas like yeah it's crazy man spouses like brother i've seen some like family members like brothers and stuff like buy pinball machines and stuff for people for christmas you know for each other it's like it's it's crazy man which is awesome like i love that yeah i mean a pinball machine is is a is an extravagant gift i think for most people but i mean that's the gift that'll keep on giving all all the year round for sure a A lot of people buy them. I think they use it as an excuse, too. It makes them feel good. It's like, I'm going to gift myself this for Christmas. You know, early Christmas present to myself. And I think it makes them feel better about spending the money. I can see that. I can see that. I should probably buy my wife a pinball machine for Christmas. I'm sure she would like that. She'd like that one. Chelsea, look. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Just what you always wanted was this game. I love it. All right. So this is what's happening today. Obviously, we're in December. We're going into the holidays. There's a lot going on on the flipping outside of things. We've got a little bit of an announcement we're going to make later on in the show. And that is in celebration of a couple things. One, of the holiday season, right? December. And then two, Greg, we hit the 1,000 follows on Facebook. So thank you, everybody, that jumped in there and helped grow the Facebook page so quickly. So in less than six months, 1,000 up. I will take that. So the next goal is going to be 10,000. Let's see where we're at. We're going to do it live. But we have a nice promotional giveaway contest that's running over 10 days. We'll explain more about that a little bit later. Before we get into our topic of conversation today, I want to go ahead and check in at Patreon. You can go to patreon.com slash flipping out pinball podcast and get involved a little bit behind the scenes with the show and support the show in a little bit different way. and i wanted to go ahead and uh we both want to welcome tim and jeff who are new members to the patreon club and and guess what greg tim what's that comes in here guess how tim got in here see if you can guess uh-oh uh-oh uh maybe from trace yeah trace gifts another one year sub trace sells games and he gives subs to uh flipping up him a podcast so i think it's awesome really appreciate it, Trace. Welcome, Tim. Welcome, Jeff. Also, another very special mention to Corey. Corey came in middle of November and Corey sent a little package to us that included a little bit of some things that we can sip and little things, little cigars actually, so that was pretty amazing, man. Really, really appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, and I got a big shout out, man. We had somebody else who came in with some gracious gifts. Doug and then his buddy Dave. Dave actually owns Creekside Cigar Lounge over in Cincinnati. So we got a really nice package in the mail from those gents as well. So thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Doug. And thank you to your buddy Dave, too, for running such an awesome establishment, man. If any of you guys are cigar connoisseurs, check that place out because it is actually awesome looking. He sent me some links to it. Yeah, I would say if you own a business or have a product and you're trying to get some additional exposure, feel free to send those in free to Flip N Out Pinball Podcast, where we will thank you live on the air and send all the listeners. I didn't mean to make that a shameless plug, but I guess it was. It's absolutely warranted. I have no problem with it at all. I think it's actually fun. So, guys, really appreciate it. Again, patreon.com slash Flip N Out Pinball Podcast, where you can get bonus content, live chat. Chat's been a little polarizing lately, so I don't know if you had a chance to go in there and look. But it's been fun. But check us out over there. And then, obviously, Christmas season is coming up. We'll talk more about some promotions that are going on at Flip N Out Pinball later in the episode. But you can go to FlippinOutPinball.com and get your new pinball machine today. So, Ken, I came across something on Facebook. And, man, I thought, you know, this is something probably worth discussing. Because I had a very different take than a lot of people. I did have people on my side with it, but there was a lot of people that I got a little heated about this situation. And a gentleman that I know, and I'm not good friends with him by any means, but, you know, I'd gotten a game from him. Zach had actually gotten it for me for Christmas last year. It was from a gentleman, Brian Kelly. And Brian is up north in Wisconsin, I believe. And Brian is a renowned pinball restorer. Uh, and I mean, you know, I mean, he is right there with the best of them. Uh, and he had an Adams family and he wanted right at, you know, $19,000 for this fully restored Adams family. So I, I saw a bunch of people in some of the, the, you know, on his post laughing at it. They were posting some laughing emojis and I was, uh, you know, I sat there and I thought for a minute and I was like, I, I, I, I guess I see where they're coming from and what they're laughing at. But, uh, you know, I, I don't think they're really grasping this. So I simply made a comment that was like, Hey, you know, those of you that are sending laughing emojis, you, I don't think you really understand the, the time, the amount of money and the amount of work that goes into doing what brian does something like this and man ken did i open a freaking shit storm you sparked some uh some controversy greg come on yeah yeah so i mean because here here's my thing man is i mean what we're i mean what we're hep games going for i feel like back in i mean even when I kind of got into pinball around 2015-16, I mean, I feel like if you had a HEP medieval madness or something, I thought you were easily $12,000, $15,000. Oh, yeah. Am I off? I mean, absolutely. No, you weren't. You weren't off at all. Yeah. And so you account for inflation parts and everything else you do. Like, I still just don't, because I've added some of this stuff up before. You know, I've shopped plenty of games. I've never done, you know, a full play field swap or obviously a full game restore. but I've done plenty of full topside teardowns, tumbling, just working on parts. And I know just the time consumption in that. And I had priced because I wanted to restore a Dracula, a Bram Stoker Dracula. And I do just the parts alone. By the time you take a new cabinet or you do that cabinet, you know, pen sound boards, you do all of this stuff, mirrored back glass, the decals, you know, new play field, all of that stuff. You re clear coat that play field. do that stuff adds up the time that it takes to do all that the labor alone is uh i mean that's skilled labor that's not you know you're not yes yes and so that was like all of that was my argument man and you're already starting off with a game that is a decent example eight to nine thousand already you know to start with so i i just didn't find that and why hey listen i i will a million percent agree that is a lot of money it really is but and you know i had some people i had i had a good friend that chimed in there to a local good friend too and you know he had chimed in there and he was like hey i've restored a game before and you know hey it takes a lot of time and everything else but it's no nineteen thousand dollars and you you know but you there there are different levels of restoration yeah there you know there are different um there's there's different, not only different levels of restoration, but people's work is very different from each other. I'm not taking anything away from my friend. Uh, you know, Ken is a really good dude and he did a really great job on the game that he restored. It was beautiful, but you know, I mean, you, you start getting into a little bit more complicated games and attention to detail because that's the thing about Brian. Brian has been doing this for a really long time and, and Brian, I think is absolutely one of the best. I mean, he, he is on, I, I was telling Zach one day, I was like, I don't know what separates him from hep, um, you know, from the quality, because I mean, every detail is, is, you know, the decals, everything are lined up meticulously. Like everything is perfect on those games. And you are essentially, cause I've got a terminator too, and that it was an expensive game, but it, I mean, can, when I tell people I've got this restored terminator and I talked to them about it, they're like, oh, that's cool, man. And then I'll have some pinheads and I'll have some people over and they'll see the game. And every single one of them go, oh, wow. Okay. Because I don't think that they understand the level. I mean, the game literally, the work that he does, those games literally look like they're brand new out of the box. They are better than brand new out of the box. I've owned a Brian Kelly restored pinball machine. It's the only fully restored game I've ever purchased, and it was a scared stiff. And I mean, it was perfect. It was better than new in box. And then when you have like the new kind of technology upgrades, like a color DMD and pin sound, that sort of thing, it brings it to the next level. When I was in the hobby and I first saw the prices on some of the restored pinball machines, I thought it was ridiculous, too. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. But at the time, I thought that paying somebody $350 for shipping would kill a deal for me, too you know what i mean it's just it's a different level of it is kind of disappointing it's like you got them all wrapped up you're like oh man this is good oh 350 shipping it's like ah yeah it's a bargain now it happens it happens yes it is but it's like the two people that were always uh highly recommended in the hobby where uh where brian kelly who's a super nice guy uh i've gotten a chance to kind of get him i get to know him a little bit in the past and and uh you know everybody out there in Minnesota is super, super good, super good dudes. Oh, yeah. What did I say? Chris Hutchins from HEP, right? Yeah. Yeah. Chris. Yeah. Wait, what was with Wisconsin? Oh, I think I said that Brian was out of Wisconsin, but I guess he's Minnesota guy. Yeah. They hang out in Wisconsin. I think I think they like to hang out over down at Spooky. They're all buddies. But Chris Hutchins is from HEP, which is high end pins. Yeah. Amazing work. Yeah. Crazy work. And I know I think Zach has a HEP pin. Mm hmm. Because when I was out there, I think he showed me, was it a Whitewater or something that was fully restored, beautiful? Dude, his collection is so nice and everything is so mint from that 90s Bally era. I have no idea what is what and what he has from where because they're all so damn nice. Yeah, it is crazy. I know you have your Terminator 2 that you wouldn't sell for $50,000. And then I had my Scared Stiff. At the time, I bought it for $10,000. Man, that was a lot of money. I sold a lot to get that game. I can talk more about that later. But yeah I mean restoration is different than shopping a pin versus refurbishing a pin versus cleaning a pin I mean there a lot of different ways And it some of it it kind of subjective a little bit too There not anything that I ever seen that categorizes these specifically It's kind of open to interpretation. It is. And that becomes kind of a problem because I'm seeing this more and more, too. I will see somebody that says that they have a fully restored pin that they'll list. and they did a shop job topside teardown and they re-decaled the cabinet yeah like that that's not it man if if you've got the old playfield in there and it's not a brand new playfield and everything is not meant i mean you could still and again again even if you did uh you put in a new playfield in there and everything new old stock whatever repro playfield anything you know there still comes down to a level of is every screw perfect is every post perfect you know did did the the ones that didn't tumble that didn't turn out so good you know has a few blemishes were those done because that's the level that brian is brian every single part on there and heps the same way basically you know with anything i think that and i won't put anything in chris's mouth or hep but you know i feel like that for the most part anything that they can get new and they can replace or anything that needs to be done, they will on there. And, I mean, they're so, like, I don't know. Restored means new to me. Yes. As if you just took it out of the box for the first time. It's, like, brand new. It's factory fresh. That's what restored means to me. It does me, too. And I think partially restored, I don't know, because then, see, here's where you get into. Refurbished is different. That's like, okay, I cleaned it up and I got it as close as I can kind of with what I have here. And it's pretty close to a good example considering how old it is. Like that's like, in my eyes, that's refurbished. You said topside teardown. For those that are listening that don't know what a topside teardown is, that would be when you're, you know, you're cleaning a game. You would take everything off the topside of the playfield. Post, mechs, everything come off. and you would clean it off and then you would repopulate topside. And you said that you thought when a game is listed as being shopped that it should include a topside teardown or no? No. So I don't know, man, because I think you get into – because when I first got into the hobby, I looked at shopped as being, okay, it's been cleaned up, maybe a partial topside teardown to get into some of the plastics removed, maybe not necessarily posted everything rubbers replaced uh playfield waxed that sort of thing i always kind of looked at that as a shop job but then you know just recently i saw some people complaining because somebody said they shopped the pen and somebody was mad because they were like they the flippers weren't rebuilt uh none of the coil sleeves were replaced all this stuff and some people were chiming in and agreeing with that and i don't know if i would ever really looked at that as a shop job just because i i've gotten games that need a good shop job that need cleaned up but they don't really need the flippers rebuilt you know they're fine they're still strong they're still good you know the the the slings aren't sluggish the pops aren't really sluggish um so i don't know man that that that gets into a very muddled thing with shopping something and how you know what you want to do how you would consider what levels there but there there does need to be some gauge there needs to be some degree in some level like a level one shop job you know yeah i agree because if somebody says the game is shopped i like i i feel like i'm paying a little bit extra because the game's kind of it's it's been gone through yeah addressing mechs that needed to be addressed and if you need to take them apart and whatever you need to do that it's got to be working it's it's i personally have always expected a topside teardown on a shop job because I think shop just lends itself to a higher level of cleaning and maintenance. And where I found that some people and I'm not going to get into sellers, obviously, there's a little tip that I found out the hard way once because I paid a lot of money to have a Twilight Zone shopped as part of the purchase agreement when when I got a Twilight Zone back in the day. I think I've owned Twilight Zone three times and I badly want to own it a fourth time. I'm stuck on that game. everything looked pristine, clean, loved it. I had to take the apron off for something to address something. And it was filthy. And I was like, all right, this, you can't tell me that. And because part of the shop was topside teardown. This was not a topside teardown for the most part, because you would have taken the apron off. I mean, it was just, it had coil dust and everything all in there in it. So if someone's telling you, hey, I'm going to do a topside teardown, uh take that apron off and just take a look at it peek under there because that's like a hidden valley see sometimes i i won't remove the apron if i'm doing a topside teardown just because it doesn't matter like i did when i did tales from the crypt just because it was so maybe i needed should we edit that out so that people aren't holding you accountable for uh yeah they're like i gotta get them directly shops dirty ass under the apron there i mean because when i'll tear something that you know if there's something that that like i'm not removing the pops the pops are paying the ass i'm not removing the pops but i'm basically removing every post every screw every ball guide because i like to polish the ball guides do that sort of stuff um and i'm tumbling you know all the hardware that sort of stuff yeah i i will i'll replace a piece of hardware if it if it needs it but see i'm not i'm just tumbling everything and and i think that that goes to like when you restore a game too. There's going to be different levels of restoration because some people might replace every single post, like we talked about, every single screw. And then others... That's almost more of a restoration than a shop job to me. Oh, yeah, that's what I said. A restoration, back to like the Brian thing. Yeah, I got you. Kind of bouncing back and forth between the two. But yeah, I wouldn't... I don't think I'd shop a pin and replace all that stuff just because a lot of times your playfields still have a... few issues and a few things cabinets a little dinged up to me it's not worth going and spending that money for all that new shit maybe new star post just because they can be a bitch to clean sometimes and you know clear yeah you get wax in there yeah it sucks yeah yeah so i don't know i might do that instead of you know cleaning those and using ultrasonic or something on that but yeah i mean it's just so again shop higher level of cleaning and and going through the game to make sure everything's working properly. That's, in my eyes, what a shop job is. I can say, hey, I cleaned it up a little bit. Maybe I hit some simple green with a microfiber towel, went through it, put some wax in the play field, changed the rubbers. I mean, I'm just cleaning it. But what's refurbished? I think refurbished would be a combination between a cleaning and a shop job, almost, where you're making sure everything is working correctly. Because I would think a shop job... Yeah, I would think a shop job would be more of that refurbished would be more of the top side teardown partially refurbished. I can see it both ways because I'm thinking like, for instance, if I go to Amazon and I'm buying a product and it's like refurbished, it usually refurbished kind of hints that it's like new on Amazon. You know what I mean? Like, like maybe you got a product back and they fix it. It's refurbished and it came. And that's why I was saying, I think maybe the top side teardown, maybe, you know, see that plastics. Yeah, that sort of where you're not at a restore, but maybe we need to set like the grading guide for cleaning and maintenance on resales. Because I mean, listen, and the reason that we're bringing it up is because I'm sure most of you that are here listening to the podcast, you either own a pinball machine or you're considering owning a pinball machine. And at some point, if you're buying all new games, that's great. But the used market comes into play when you're looking for games that you can't buy new any longer. And, you know, these are terms that whether you've been in the hobby for 20 years or you've been in the hobby for two months, you can you can tell. I mean, between Greg and I, I mean, we have different expectations based on how these games are explained when they're being sold as, you know, used games. So it's I don't know that we come to the to the conclusion of what everything is. I guess it just makes more sense to list out exactly what you did during, like you said, during your shop job or during your refurb or during your restoration. You shouldn't have to explain. And you brought it up, too. You can't just put new cabinet decals on it and the outside of the cabinet looks new. And you're like, yeah, I restored the game. Like a restoration is freaking everything's got to be minty, perfect, brand new. That's a restoration. That's the way I take it, man. And that's why I hold all of those games. Maybe if I didn't own one, I wouldn't think that so much. I wouldn't be so adamant about seeing it. Because somebody said something, they were like, there's no way I'd pay $19,000 for a new in-box game. But let's take into consideration, let's take something to me, and maybe I'm far off, maybe a lot of people disagree with me on this, But take something like a Jersey Jack at $15,000. Now, one can always argue that, hey, look at Harry Potter or look at something and compare that to an Addams Family or Terminator 2 or a Scared Stiff. That's all fine. But now take, you know, just what's in it. But you can also come back and say, hey, look at Toy Story. Not a whole lot going on in there. You know what I'm saying? Still $15,000 for a CE. So let's take that into consideration that they're selling that game at $15,000. That is a mass produced game with cheaper labor. That is, you know, mass ordered parts. So you're getting all those parts for a lot cheaper. Now let's take somebody who restores a pin to that exact same condition to where it's literally like brand new out of the box. It's one person building that game with off the shelf parts that are more expensive. Like to me, it can, you know, when you're, you're working in that small, you know what I'm saying? You don't have the, you know, you're not a Ford. You're not an assembly line. You are one person. Now this is almost like a one-off game in a sense doing this restoration. It can add. You know what I'm saying? It can add. Well, yeah. I mean, a new pinball machine going down the line, maybe you've got 15 to 25 man hours on that game depending on what company and what game. whereas like a restore uh you're you're i would imagine i mean do you have any idea how many hours like a like a brian kelly puts in i would imagine it's gonna be like i think 40 to 80 that's what i would think yeah all right i think so too i know it's a huge gap but i mean i think at the bare minimum 40 by the time you're screen printing printing that that that you know the back of the backbox you're painting the head the cabinet you're painting you know just installing everything you know cleaning up every single part in there you're adding pin side your pin sound you're adding you know all the you know new speaker panel new you know you're having to order back glass uh because it's got you know most of this stuff comes with mirrored back glass and so forth whatever you yeah yeah uh applying the decals hell you know how that is coming from arcades and doing that that's not a quick easy process to do it's it's really it's a it's a trade man you got you got to know how to do that for the most part yeah to be but you know brian's that we're fishing at everything right now. He's done it forever. And it's funny because now that I think about this, I met Brian Kelly at Scott Danesi's house when Scott Danesi still had TNA in Whitewood and Jack Danger was out there streaming the game once or twice and Scott lives down the street from me. So he invited me out there and he introduced me to Brian Kelly because at the time I told Scott I was looking to get a restored game and that Scared Stiff was on my list when I was talking to Brian. And this is how like stupid I was at the time. I was like, yeah, man, I was like, I would, I, you know, nice to meet you. I love your work. I've been seeing all the pin side threads and all that kind of stuff. I'm like, I'd love to get a restored, secured stiff. And he's like, he's like, yeah, I think I'll have one. And, and because he was like, he was reclearing those plate, those playfields with like automotive clear coat and everything. Like it was like this massive, massive undertaking. And I said, and I'm asking him about the price. So he shoots the price at me and I'm like, and I'm thinking, all right, how can I save a little bit of money here. So I was like, I said, Brian, I said, why don't we do this? Like, yeah, I'll do the full restoration and stuff, except, you know, you don't need to replace all the screws and the nuts and all that stuff. You can just use like the old ones in there you know take a little bit off And he looks at me and he like he like well it just kind of what you gonna get and i was like oh never mind i take it all then let go let go yeah but uh yeah there no there no cutting corners or nickel or diming you know these high-end uh restorations and no and dude it's like i said ken like you're you're sort of getting a one-off in a sense you know now yeah that's a great point man that's a one-on-one he's done some others because here's the thing is people were in there like nobody in their right mullin would pay that for that game what they don't know is i'm pretty sure that brian actually did two of those those hadams families and it already sold one of them yeah you know i can see that yeah it's all in the eye of the beholder you know if you're a collector and there's a game that you want and you want the absolute nicest version that you can get of that game you're going to do something like that you know even if zach wouldn't have gotten you know gifted me that t2 um i i would have still bought it at that price i just looked forever for one it was just a game that meant a lot to me and i i wanted you know i wanted some i wanted the nicest example like i wanted to look at that and i wanted to to be proud of that game and go wow and that's what i do every time i look at it what would it take greg to pry that from your hands that terminator oh man i don't know i would have to ask a stupid amount for that that game too just just because of being a gift from Zach. Zach makes fun of me. I don't think he takes the sentiment that I do with Gips. The fact that he was that generous to me means a lot. I just looked for so long for that game in that kind of condition. It's cool because he knew you were looking for that game. You know what I mean? It was restored. I love that. That's great. You just don't see him pop up at that quality. Again, you see the partial restore you know where somebody redid a cabinet or you know you saw a lot of them it just wasn't my cup of tea you saw a lot of people that did and they did a good job on them they did that chrome edition t2 with the the kind of gray chrome silver graphics on there but i i wanted i wanted it to look original i wanted it to be you know as as much out of the 90s as possible uh in there but but yeah i mean it's just you know again you just shouldn't make fun of those people in in my eyes Again, I get it where it seems ridiculous for that price on something, but there are people out there that are willing to pay that because, again, they want that nicest example. And, again, just start adding up the parts. Start adding up the time of what it would take for you to actually go through an entire Addams Family and do something like that or a Terminator. And granted, my Terminator, just because it's a lower-end game to begin with in an Addams Family, it was substantially cheaper than $19,000, but still an expensive game. But, you know, start adding that. I saved $500 for going with a T2. We used some of the old screws from the original game in that one. Hey, I got Brian to knock off $1.65. Right. It's like, I don't need a shooter rod. I got one at home. Yeah, start just add that stuff up, man. Look into it, what it takes, and just the time involved in gathering the parts and gathering everything. and you know because a lot of people you can easily just factor in oh this is what it would take for me to tear this down no no think about setting around ordering parts going and picking up parts getting a new cabinet doing all that stuff you know that's involved that that's all time consuming to gathering everything getting it together so i just i don't know man i'm not uh i don't know i don't know i i think i would that's a hill that i will i will die on is that you know some of those games can can be worth that much they can easily a restored game could be $12,000 to $19,000. I think it's just the sticker shock right off the bat. And price is such a touchy subject for a lot of people right now. Oh, it is very much. It is what it is. Because then you can say, well, I could get three Stern Pros for the price of that restored Terminator 2, but those three Stern Pros don't have the sentimental value and the collectability of really just an anomaly, like almost a one-off of a fully restored minty Terminator 2. And I would also, I don't even think I need to argue it. I think it makes sense. If you're getting a game that Brian Kelly had done, it adds to the value of that game because he is a very popular restore. Because you know what you're getting. It's not Greg Bone restored this game because, listen, I could do everything that Brian does, and I'm not going, I'm going to have probably some blemishes in the paint. Um, you know, my Marc Silk screening on the back is not going to be as good. It might have some dirt and shit underneath the decal and my decal might be a little askew, you know, it's going to be minor things, but me taking the time to do that game and me doing a full restore on a game is still going to be very different than somebody like Brian or Chris at HEP doing a game just because they have perfected their craft. They are so accustomed to doing it. They know the inside and out of what they need to do to perfect that, and it's just always going to be a better game. So when I see – and Zach is the one who really hammered this home with me one time. Zach's like, man – he goes – because, you know, he gets so many used games in and has for the – you know, even before he got into flipping out, He did a lot of trading and swapping and flipping games and so forth. And, you know, he was like, man, he goes, I've seen a lot of restored games from people. You'd be careful. Be very careful. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. You can't throw that term around loosely. No, no. And I think, you know, in defense of some of these people, they're not trying to be intentionally disingenuous. They think not at all restoration. It'd be the same thing as me, man. There's going to be things that I'm just not my eyes. It's the skill set. Yeah, it is. It is. It is. Yeah. So you do have to be careful. And I think that to your point that that's what Brian, that's what a game associated with him brings to the table is, you know what you're getting. You know, when you hear a HEP game, I've got a HEP restored game I'm selling. You don't question the quality of that restoration. It lends itself because you know that name. But I've never seen bad publicity on either. I've never really seen anybody be like, hey, I got this game from Brian or HEP. No. Man, it just sucked. I took the apron off. There's a bunch of coil dust under there. It's terrible. You never read anything about that. So you have that peace of mind goes a long way also. And it's your show pony, right? It's your creme de la creme in your collection. And when people come over, you want to look at it. Now, the question that I have for you, though, now, and because this is something that I experienced, is do you play it? Because are you afraid of every ball that you put on it is one ball further away from fully restored almost? Like that was the mentality that I had with my scared stiff. It drove me absolutely insane. I don't touch that fucking game. I will put, I will put, I will put, so here, and this, cause this is what's going to set people off right here. Furniture plastic over it. Like in an Italian living room, it's like, Hey, this is what's going to set everybody off as they're like, so if I was to buy, like you fucking spend a 19,000 for a game anyways, and then you're not even going to fucking play it. Like this is even more ridiculous. I love it. I will put, like, for some reason, I won't explain why. Actually, I can explain why. I don't know why this is so. So part of the sentiment of T2, this is the most ridiculous story I will ever tell. So obviously a lot of us that remember pinball, T2 was kind of, you know, right there, that first DMD, you know, nostalgic game that we all saw on arcade. saw setting in, you know, a local mall or something somewhere to play. So, you know, I think everybody has a little bit of a memory of that. I have that memory. I loved Arnold. I loved Predator. I loved growing up with T2. Like, you know, our generation, we grew up with Sylvester Stallone. You know, we had Van Damme. Like, we had everybody that just kicked ass, like, that was just like, ah, I can do everything. So you grow up with that, and that's great. And I loved T2. but girl like there was a point in my life so we went to uh this was his right after his right before i got into pinball i guess i think our first christmas in our new house and we went to a family christmas party for for new year's and i drank or not for new year's but for christmas eve and i drank way too much like way too much like my mom drove chelsea and i love it and i come home and I cannot sleep in the bed. I still have to put out milk and fucking cookies. And I am sitting there. Room is spinning. I'm about to die. What is on? T2. Oh, man. And I am laying there focused on T2, just waiting to be able to put out these milk and cookies for the kids. The ultimate holiday movie. Yeah. And I ended up watching the whole thing to keep the freaking room from spinning and keeping from throwing up. That's amazing. from that day on yeah that like p2 is synonymous with christmas for me that like yeah i get it i get it it's so i will play that game like mad over the holiday like it just it feels right it feels good uh so i will actually play the hell out of it then the rest of the year i might play that game once a month, maybe once every two months. Sure, yeah. And anyone that comes to our, and some of our Patreon listeners who were in our live chat. Yeah. Yeah, our after hours chat. They were privy to some of this, too, because we got into this. But people that come over are allowed one ball on that game. One ball, man. Like, one ball. If you drink quick, I'll let you go full game. But there is absolutely no more than one game on Terminator 2. I can see it. Because I'm like, dude, I don't like that. sometimes when i shop a job or shop a game with plastic ramps and if i flame polish the ramps or i put new ramps on there because it's like you said it's one more ball closer to scuffing that ramp to where it's now a little hazy yeah it's not where it was and and i don't want the clear coat messed up on that game from ball swirls marks anything else divots yep so i i am i i will be honest like i am not that person of yeah you know what play it no no it's here to enjoy it's like don't don't even look at it that long put these glasses on yeah so that was a big long uh long circle turn the wi-fi off around this thing i don't want the wi-fi hitting the game yeah it was same thing with scared stiff i i got it and i unwrapped it and i was so because i had to bring it into the basement at the time before i had like the studio set up and that was terrifying just getting it into the basement then you get it set up and then it was like i had a bunch of friends over because it was like it was an unboxing party for uh a restored scared stiff yeah and you open it up and it's just it's just beautiful and and it's sparkly and it's it's awesome and it's and i'm like but don't don't play it nobody play it nobody play it and then i think um i put a few games on it and every like one or two games i would take the glass off and i'd wipe everything down yeah and then uh at one point because i had it in a row and it's a matter of like a week remember one of my kids downstairs with like a high c jukebox juice box and put it up on the glass i about lost my mind and i was like i gotta get this game out of the house like i can't i can't have it down here i was just paranoid about it and then i'm like oh my gosh what if what if my basement floods one day and it had never flooded but what if it did you know and it got on my pinball machine and i ended up i had i sold it for exactly what i had into it uh buyer in Texas said, hey, it's Brian Kelly restored. He's like, well, why are you getting rid of it? It's like, you don't want to know why I'm getting rid of it. But it was sad, man. But I owned it for maybe less than a month. How long ago was that that you got it? That had to be probably 2016, 2017. Yeah. Somewhere in there. And that was a $10,000 game. That was the most I'd ever spent on a game ever at that time. you know i i i remember uh back with a terminator because like i said i looked for one for a long time and it was probably around 2018 or so no 2017 2016 2017 i remember seeing one that was restored that was beautiful and they wanted like 5500 for it and i remember like laughing at that And I was like ha ha ha Ha ha That ridiculous for a Terminator You wish now Let me ask you this So you have Terminator 2 If you could pick one more game to put in your lineup that would be restored in the history of pinball, is there another one that you would like to collect at some point or you wish you had? I would probably, so there's probably. If Brian Kelly said, hey, Greg, I appreciate everything you said about me on the podcast that was entitled why Brian Kelly is awesome episode 15. And what I'm going to do here is I'm going to gift you a game. Yeah, for the promotion. The shameless plug. For the shameless plug. What game do you pick? So I would go with Dracula. That would probably be one of my number one. Yeah, that's great, man. I think I remember. Adam's Family was one of my number one. I actually reached out to Brian on that. I just didn't have the money to spend on that one. But I actually talked to him about actually buying that Adam's Family. And, um, and then I, this gets really stupid price. It's probably the same as around the Adams family. And it's a great game. Um, but I probably want to Indiana Jones. Like I've, I've seen like Indiana Jones and Adams family restored are absolutely phenomenal games, especially when you put pens down in them and you've got upgraded speakers. Like there is nothing like those games. Like, man, probably one of those three I would go. But again, Terminator was the only one. I would be fine with nice examples of any three of those games. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. Like, I would love to get a fully restored Twilight Zone. But, you know, there might be new Twilight Zones coming out. I still think this is one of those weird situations where I would love the modern-day tech on a new updated version of a TZ. But, like, I kind of want the original Twilight Zone. And a lot of it is because I want to throw that pin sound in there and I want to throw my own custom sound mix into that game. Yes. But, yeah, I don't know, man. Oh, dude, that's what. It's good. that that terminator like on the pencil it sold me because like when i first hit the button so it's got uh guns and roses on it it's got dwight yokum so it's got like all the music like you know like when when arnold walks in that bar whatever and i'm playing dwight yokum and then it's got bad to the bone on it so when i first hit that and then i i hit into a mode and it played bad to the bone i was like it's so cool man this is insane we we have to start we got to team up with pin sound i've been promoting pin sound since i've been in the hobby oh dude every single time product and i've introduced myself to those guys like two or three times at pinball shows but hey just love you guys love your product you're like okay great like they have no idea but i hey listen i've talked to him one time about pin sounds in my life trust me we've talked one time about doing some stuff with them um but it just kind of fell through on our end because it was like a full kit install and i zach and i were so busy at the time and doing stuff we just didn't get time to kind of throw that promotion because i mean it was the full you know they're full they got packages with speakers and all kinds of crazy stuff that go in there too it's not just that the pin sound board anymore um so it just kind of fell through but yeah i would like to talk to those guys again because i'm like you do that that to me is one of those those mods that just it's like a color dmd or anything it just it adds so much to a game it's so worth the money and it's nice too because if you sell your game and somebody's not interested you can just remove it and put it on the next game something which is cool but uh exactly but yeah so crazy stuff man so you know if you guys comment talk let us know what your thoughts are again you know i i'll kind of die on that hill with with uh you know how much it does take and all the time that it takes to do a restored game and i understand hey you might not be able to get get what you paid for out of it is kind of you know somebody brought up it's kind of like a classic car you know you you don't you buy that car after it's restored, don't have it restored sort of thing. And I get that to an extent, but I still think that if you're looking for the best of the best, that's where you find it, and that's what you're going to pay. Yeah. If you're listening to this episode right now, go back to our Facebook page and comment, what game would you like to get fully restored, added to the collection? Flippin' Up Pinball Podcast. Facebook, do it now. I know. I'm curious about that. That's awesome. All right, Greg, so I mentioned earlier in the episode with the holidays coming up, we're in December. And in celebration of our 1,000 follows on Facebook, we have something that's fun coming up here. And it's called the Flip N Out Pinball Holiday Run 10 Days of Giveaways. And it's going to start somewhere around December 12th. Okay, so December 12th in that area, 11th, 13th, whatever it takes. we're going to post a small contest or a prompt every single day for 10 straight days on our Facebook page. And all you have to do as the listener is jump on those daily posts for a chance to enter. Okay. Now we're not going to reveal what any of the prizes are yet because the prizes are going to reveal, be revealed each day that the contests are running for those 10 days. But each day is going to have its own giveaway. And the twist is we're not going to announce the winners as we go. Instead, we're going to take every single winner and they're all going to be revealed during our holiday show that's going to be released on Christmas Eve, so December 24th. So it's kind of like, it's our little gift of giving back for everybody being such great supporters of Flip N Out Pinball and of the podcast. So what I would encourage everybody to do is mark your calendars. It's going to be the 10 days of giveaways. It's all going to be on Facebook. The big reveal is going to be on Christmas Eve during our Christmas Eve episode. Fun way to wrap up the year and give back to the people who have been supporting the company and the show. And some of the prizes are pretty remarkable. And we were able to get a lot of the manufacturers involved to take part in this promotional giveaway. So every day that there's a prize is going to be from a manufacturer and they're going to be celebrated for that day. So I think that's really cool. And then for anybody that's in Patreon, one of those days are going to be dedicated to Patreon only. And there will be a prize there. So you can go patreon.com slash flipping out pinball podcast. And you can join our Patreon for free, by the way. It's not something that you have to join and give money to. But there's going to be a separate day for Patreon subs. The tier is just when you pay, you just get a little bit more access. Correct. We can go over the tiers one day, but it's just easier. Go over there and check that out. But that's going to be a fun contest. I love it. I don't know, man. I'm looking for it. I love this time of year. I know you love this time of year and you're watching T2 on loop. So that's it. I do. I have it on repeat. That's the way to go. All right, Greg, we're going to wrap up this episode of Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. Thanks, everybody, for listening. You can go to FlippinOutPinball.com for all of your new pinball machine and entertaining gaming needs. FlippinOutPinball.com. You can reach myself or Greg at our email addresses. If you have questions about purchasing a product or would like to order a product, I'm Ken at FlippinOutPinball.com and he is Greg at FlippinOutPinball.com and just a reminder it's still early in the season so anybody looking for any pinball gifts, any accessories, any pinball machines you still have time before Christmas we've got some of the fastest shipping in the entire industry so you do still have time, don't think that you're out of that, we do now have Walking Dead Remastered Premium and LE's now in stock and as always we got that wonderful free shipping for you. Metallica Remastered. Nice promotion, Ken, that Stern is running with that to where you get a limited foil poster with the purchase of a Metallica Remastered. The cool thing with that and there's four different posters of the Metallica nature for that game and you get all four of them. It's not a random shout out. We already had a couple people that took advantage of it so you get four Metallica posters with the purchase of a Metallica Remastered right now. And also with it being the end of the anniversary year, we will be getting the last shipment of Jaws 50th in. So if you guys have been waiting around for that, we should have some of those in stock with spots available here in December. And again, all of our new Sterns, free shipping. I'll say this not to jump in. I mean, that Stern Jaws 50th has sold a ton. And honestly, not to create FOMO, but this is the last chance you're ever going to have to get one that's brand new in box. So if you're on the fence, now's the time to pull the plug. so yep yep no more no more no more will be made after 2025 because we will be out of that anniversary year so stern will not be rerunning that 50th and that 50th has really grown on me that play field and those wire forms originally went from like bomb pops to like we love this game in the course of about a month so yeah it has grown on me it's so stupid uh so stern stern has vaulted uh they vaulted rush and iron maidens we actually have oh actually in star wars i I forgot about Star Wars comic. They vaulted that as well. We have one of, I mean, I think we've got only one Iron Maiden pro left, maybe one or two Rush pros, and maybe a couple of Star Wars comic pros in. So, again, those are vaulted. Stern's not going to be making those. So if you're looking for one of those games, they will end up going fast now that they are vaulted. So take advantage of that. King Kong Art Blades and Shooter Knobs are now in stock. Texas Chainsaw Massacre now in stock. What do you think about that, Ken? We've actually had, dude, this is insane. I'm so glad that we ended up getting a couple of those in just because that has kind of been oddly out of nowhere. I don't know if because of Halloween and holidays coming around, but I've gotten a lot of inquiries about TCM lately. Yeah, I do too, actually. Two inquiries in the last week on TCM. And it's a game I don't have hardly any time on it at all. I've got to go back and revisit the game. I think the version of the game that I played mostly was Looney Tunes, and that's a super fun game. But the horror stuff appeals to me. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is just a dark, hard theme. Oh, it's so good. I love it. I love it. It's so good. You'll love it. You'll love it. You've got to get your hands on it. Also, Zach had made a post. Flip N Out Pinball is now hiring. And I think Ken and I can obviously attest that it is a fantastic place to work. So, you know, if any of you have thought about working in the pinball business yourself, you know, you're a hard worker, you're attentive to detail, you're task oriented, you can make good decisions. You know, I think that we're really looking for somebody that can join the team that has some critical thinking skills that can take initiative on their own to really focus and figure out problems, work on things, work around the shop, work on shipping, delivery, that sort of thing. And, you know, contact Zach, right, Zach? You know, Zach at FlipinOutPinball and let him know that you're interested. Send over your resume, your qualifications, and, you know, possibly join the team. Yeah, I mean, and this is – it's not a remote position. This would be on site there in southern Indiana. So that's important to realize. I had a friend of mine that reached out because he was considering doing it. And, listen, I'll just say, obviously I work here, and I've been here for almost six months. Never made a better decision career-path-wise in my entire life than coming over to work at FlipinOutPinball. Zach and Nicole, many are amazing people, very principled, hardworking, and they treat their employees very, very well. And, Greg, I love working with you. I've never been more happy. Literally, man, I wake up every single morning and I'm disappointed when it's the weekend because I'm not working. I just want to be working and flipping out. So if you're considering it, get your resume together. If you're considering a relocation, this isn't something that, you know, it'd be life-changing for you in many, many ways, but highly encourage it. The only thing that's going to make me a little bit more sad, Greg, is that I will no longer be the newest employee at Flip N Out Pinball. But that's okay. That's okay. I'm ready to pass the torch a little bit. Hey, that just means that you came on, you busted so much ass. Yes. We've ramped up business so much that we're already in need of more help. I know. I know. I was the game changer that got somebody back on. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But it's a great time. So I highly recommend, highly recommend A++. Yep. And as always, as Ken mentioned before, you know, keep an eye out on flippingoutpinball.com and our Flipping Out Facebook page. We've always got exciting new things that we're working on, and 2026 is absolutely going to be no different. We have a lot of things that we are working on behind closed doors. Some taking, you know, take a little bit of a slow burn, a little slow roll of what we're working on. Some things that we're working on that are working a little faster. But 2026 is going to be very different. Massive. Very different. Massive. I mean, we've got a lot of new product lines that we are ready to roll out in 2026 as we continue to expand and grow the business. So, I mean, we're going to be your one-stop shop for anything game remote related, essentially. What else? You got anything else, man? Are we good here? What do you think? Oh, yeah. All right. Let's go. For Greg Bowen, I am Ken Cromwell. Don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.