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DPP #167 :D&D trailer first impressions!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·33m 40s·analyzed·Jan 3, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

D&D pinball offers strong playfield design with character leveling and save features, but Premium/LE value depends on expression lights.

Summary

Don provides detailed first-impression analysis of the newly revealed Dungeons & Dragons pinball machine by Stern, covering playfield layout, mechanics, character progression systems, and value proposition across Pro/Premium/LE tiers. He praises the game's thematic fit, design complexity, and evolution from prior Stern releases like Venom, while noting minor omissions (left orbit spinner) and concerns about dragon durability and dungeon scoop accessibility.

Key Claims

  • D&D was not plagued with leaks prior to official reveal; only late rumors mentioned 'Dragon in Cave' and Michael Dorn

    high confidence · Don states this directly regarding lack of pre-reveal spoilers

  • The game features four distinct ramp levels in one playfield area (playfield-level orbit, elevated town ramp, plastic ramp to gelatinous cube, arching Vuck shot)

    high confidence · Don's detailed playfield analysis with specific vertical design observations

  • Premium features full dragon articulation (left-right motion, fireballs) while Pro has only up-down motion

    high confidence · Don explicitly compares Pro vs Premium dragon mechanics from official reveal materials

  • The game uses a procedurally-generated dungeon system that changes weekly with save-game progression (hashtag 'pin save')

    high confidence · Don credits Dwight Sullivan with naming the feature; based on official feature trailer

  • Character selection and leveling are individual per character rather than global, unlike Venom

    high confidence · Don states this as evolution from Venom system observed in feature trailer

  • Don has not ordered the game despite being impressed, maintaining his 'new in-box' New Year's resolution

    high confidence · Direct personal statement in episode

  • The shield/ball save feature is player-controlled via action button and enables free shots to ramps

    high confidence · Don describes mechanic mechanics after watching feature matrix

  • Premium/LE value proposition primarily driven by expression lights ($700) rather than dragon mechanism alone

    high confidence · Don's final analysis of tier pricing logic

Notable Quotes

  • “This feels like a great spiritual follow-up to games like Black Knight Sword of Rage, right? And even some medieval madness, although, come on, there's no castle mech in here. The dragon's impressive, but it's not a castle that blows up.”

    Don @ early in episode — Establishes design lineage and thematic positioning within Stern's fantasy-themed portfolio

  • “Can I just talk about a second the people claiming that, you know, D&D is for nerds and this is coming from pinball people? Like, look at yourself in the mirror, homie, dude. We're talking about pinball.”

    Don @ mid-episode — Addresses community perception of D&D theme; defends theme appropriateness for pinball community

  • “Venom needed a spinner so bad that I put one in on the left orbit. And when I did, I found that there was an area where it fit perfectly. There's a cut in the plastics where it looked like it probably was originally and was taken out why do we not have a dragon spinner there on this left orbit?”

    Don @ mid-playfield analysis — Identifies specific design omission that Don retrofitted to Venom; suggests original design intention for D&D

  • “I think the only thing I feel like I'm missing really is that spinner on the left orbit. All right, it seems to be a Brian Eddy thing.”

    Don @ later in playfield tour — Summarizes primary mechanical criticism; attributes to designer Brian Eddy's philosophy

  • “This reminds me of kind of the things that I like from Alice Cooper's Nightmare castle, right? You've got that mountain system on the left, and the orbit shots are underneath it. I'm getting that vibe here, and I love that.”

    Don @ dragon/mountain section — Contextualizes design aesthetic within pinball history; positive comparison to high-value classic

  • “The main difference I'm seeing now, though, in the modern era is if the LE comes with cabinet expression lights, which are now $700... that's the main differentiator that would really push me into doing that.”

    Don @ pricing analysis section — Identifies expression lights as primary value driver for LE purchases in current market

Entities

Dwight SullivanpersonBrian EddypersonDungeons & Dragons: The Tyrant's EyegameStern PinballcompanyDonpersonVenomgameBlack Knight Sword of Ragegame

Signals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Missing left orbit spinner (noted as originally intended based on plastic cut marks similar to Venom retrofit); represents small but felt mechanical omission in otherwise complex layout

    high · Don identifies specific plastic cut location suggesting original design intent; notes he retrofitted spinner to Venom in same location; repeats concern as primary mechanical criticism

  • ?

    design_philosophy: D&D represents 2.0 evolution of Venom's character progression system with individually-leveled characters and persistent save-game features; shift toward home collector value through replayability and procedural content

    high · Don explicitly frames D&D as evolution from Venom; credits Dwight Sullivan for 'pin save' feature; notes 'they're really listening to their customers that are largely home based now'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dungeon scoop on Premium/LE potentially too narrow for reliable entry; comparison to Rush scoop Stern fix suggests accessibility may be compromised vs original design intent

    medium · Don: 'This is reminding me of the Stern fix from Rush... It looks like it's pretty narrow... if it's difficult to enter that dungeon on the Premium LE, but it's much easier on the Pro, I think that's kind of almost like a step sideways'

  • ?

    leak_detection: D&D reveal was notably leak-free except for late-night rumors about 'Dragon in Cave' and Michael Dorn casting; contrasts with prior Stern releases like John Wick that suffered from pre-release spoilers

    high · Don: 'This wasn't a game that was plagued with leaks... I didn't see potato camp footage. I didn't see pictures of the playfield leaked out earlier like we saw with Wick and other such games.'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.101

0:00
I'm proud to fight alongside you. Come here, tasty traveler. We're being attacked by a gelatinous cube. Guys, it's Dungeons & Dragons time with Don's Pinball Podcast.
0:13
And let's get into a little bit of a playfield rundown on this as-new-released game just a few minutes ago. I've had time to see the trailers, I've looked at the pictures, I've got some opinions, so let's talk about it.
0:27
Get ready. Let's go. All right, let's cut that off and get right to the chase, man. I'm fresh off of the review trailer, the feature trailer, hanging out with my buddy Dwight Sullivan virtually, remotely, and the rest of the Stern crew this morning who got up at the crack of dawn to get this presentation ready for everybody, and it's all been released. The live streams are still going on. But I thought I would pop by here and give some early first impressions. I haven't played this game yet. I hadn't seen anything. And so, like, thanks for that, you know. This wasn't a game that was plagued with leaks. I mean, the most that I got was that there was Dragon in Cave and there was Michael Dorn somewhere. And, like, that's it. And even that, that only came late last night. We were discussing on Patreon and on the Discord since then. But now we've got the full reveal of this game, which, like, can I just say this feels like a great spiritual follow-up to games like Black Knight Sword of Rage, right? And even some medieval madness, although, come on, there's no castle mech in here. The dragon's impressive, but it's not a castle that blows up.
1:42
I'm hype on this game. I do not have one ordered. I'm holding strong to my new in-box New Year's resolution. We'll see if that lasts through the week, though, because this game, it was very much impressive. So I like this game launch because this wasn't something that was ruined by spoilers. I didn't see potato camp footage. I didn't see pictures of the play field leaked out earlier like we saw with Wick and other such games. So I got to go into this with really not any preconceived expectations. I didn't have this up on a pedestal. It hadn't been hyped up to the nth degree or anything. so I got to actually watch a reveal trailer and be surprised and much more enthusiastic about this than what I was prepared to see so that was fun, this was a good pinball experience for me nothing is like well, maybe the birth of a child or a wedding but nothing in pinball is like seeing a game for the very first time you know, we had a theme confirmed, but it's like okay here's the trailer, here's 90 seconds, let's watch here's everything that's in here and it's like, oh wow, there's another flipper Oh, that dragon looks cool. Oh, wait, what the heck was that? Is that the mechanism from Led Zeppelin Premium Resurrected? Sadly, no, it's a little bit smaller than that. But let's just get a quick rundown here. This can be your companion in the car. You've watched the trailer, and you want to kind of get, you know, I've played every game that's come out in the last two to three years. So here's my impressions of this. Game looks awesome. Game looks fun. I'll get to Pro Premium LE as far as where I think the value is here at the end, but let's just go over and see what we're getting. We're getting an Italian bottom, Brian Eddy's bottom, and it's been working thus far, so no danger rooms or anything here. So we know all of this is going to work geometry-wise. I do like the fact that there's a shield that's down there at the bottom. When I first saw this, I was thinking, okay, it's a pop-up ball save. I guess that's fine. But then after I was watching the feature matrix and everything. When this shield pops up, which is player controlled from the action button, and the ball rests along the flipper, it's pretty much a free shot to either one of the left or right ramp entrances. So that's kind of cool. I like the idea that the classes that you can pick, if you pick the wizard, he has a buff where when you hit the shield, you get a couple extra seconds of it. So that's fun. Add some strategy to this game. Overall, I do like the concept of this. this looks like the next generation, the 2.0 version of what we got with Venom, right? It'll pick a character that does change the gameplay in a meaningful way, and you have an overall leveling up system, which confers buffs to the character, right? We saw that in Venom. Probably the best part of that game was picking a character, having the play field physically change. That was interesting. It was a compelling reason to pick a different character, otherwise just hit random select and go. So it looks like they've evolved on that concept. the characters are each individually leveled. I like that part of it. So it gives more gameplay value rather than just leveling up to 99 and then killing the main baddie and then starting over. So as the evolution of that code, yeah, this looks awesome. So the fact that there's meaningful choices between the characters, they each kind of grow independently. And then I still, you know, we don't know how you get to the unlocks of the other characters, but presumably that's through game progression. And I like that there's a save feature. Did you see Dwight Sullivan called this the pin save, like hashtag, right? Like the trademarked pin save. But as you're progressing through this procedurally generating dungeon concept that they came up with, and your game ends, you can pick up the next game with your progress saved as long as you log in, or you can choose to start over from the beginning. So love that. So this feels like just first impressions as a 2.0 evolution on that Venom concept, which was probably my favorite part of that game. Now, Venom came with a paucity of features, right? You had a bash toy, some ramps, and that was kind of all you got. It didn't feel as fully featured as even the Stranger Things did. This game fixes that. It feels fully featured. It feels like everything's in there. I see a ton of coils.

  • “I've mentioned before, particularly with Jaws, that video modes really kind of changed once we got to Jaws, where you were playing the video mode, which most people would say it does slow the game down... but in the case when you have a video mode and you play that video mode not just by pushing flippers but by actually hitting shots I dig that.”

    Don @ video mode discussion — Provides context for D&D's procedural dungeon implementation; explains his preference for shot-based video integration

  • “I really liked the Ninja Camp fix. I really didn't like the Stern fix that came with Rush. This is reminding me of the Stern fix from Rush. It looks like it's pretty narrow.”

    Don @ dungeon scoop analysis — Expresses concern about dungeon scoop accessibility; references prior Stern design precedent

    • Medieval Madness
    game
    Stranger Thingsgame
    John Wickgame
    Mandaloriangame
    Metallicagame
    Led Zeppelingame
    Jawsgame
    Rushgame
    X-Mengame
    Alice Coopergame
    Pinball Arcadeplatform

    manufacturing_signal: Pro model extensively loaded with features (metal wire form ramps, decals on flippers, shield mechanic) reducing traditional Pro/Premium differentiation; suggests significant engineering effort on entry-tier

    high · Don repeatedly notes surprise at Pro feature completeness: 'Way to load the Pro, guys'; notes decals on flippers as apparent first for Stern Pro model; metal ramps present even on Pro

  • ?

    product_strategy: Premium/LE value driven by expression lights ($700 cabinet cost) more than dragon mechanism; creates pricing pressure on LE positioning when dragon is only substantive mechanical difference

    high · Don's final analysis: dragon mechanism may be $2,500-$3,000 plus $500 dungeon pop-up; expression lights identified as primary LE justification over powder coat and art alone

  • ?

    product_concern: Dragon bash toy durability concerns; comparison to Jaws shark material suggests rubber construction but repeated ball impacts raise wear concerns for location play

    medium · Don: 'I'm wondering how well dragon will be holding up having the balls bashed against him. just looking at it I was worried about busted teeth, busted jaw on Dragon' but notes Jaws shark durability positive precedent

  • ?

    licensing_signal: D&D IP licensing secured from Wizards of the Coast for Stern pinball adaptation; represents significant fantasy IP commitment in modern Stern portfolio alongside prior medieval games

    high · Official reveal presentation by Stern; game titled 'The Tyrant's Eye'; character selection and D&D-specific mechanics integrated into rules

    • 5:53
    So, yeah, this looks fun. And the Pro looks absolutely as loaded as you could expect. Is there value with the premium LE? Let's get to that at the end. let's take a little tour of what we have going on here. First off, this game map, right? Tabletop RPG is what D&D is. Can I just talk about a second the people claiming that, you know, D&D is for nerds and this is coming from pinball people? Like, look at yourself in the mirror, homie, dude. We're talking about pinball. You know, this type of theme in pinball is perfect. It's exactly what I want. Even if I never played Dungeons & Dragons, didn't know anything about it, this is a fantasy role-playing type pinball machine. It's like, come on, this would fit right in between Medieval Madness and Black Knight Sword of Rage, which is like absolutely my jam, more so than a Marvel theme, more so than even a movie theme. So, theme-wise, I dig this. I don't think there's any real argument there that this is a dumb game for nerds. I want something else. I mean, honestly, come on. Layout-wise, what do we got? I can't tell if underneath the left wire form going into the in-lane, If there's a stand-up target there beneath that flasher or not, I'll have to look at some other playfield angles. But we do have a ton of shots. This is what I like with games. I don't know if I would necessarily call this a fan layout because there is an upper flipper there, but the shots do fan out nicely in a way that looks creative. This isn't just left ramp, right ramp, and then a couple of orbits.
    7:21
    Ramps are stacked on top of each other. This game has verticality. I like that where everything's not just on a two-dimensional plane. You know, these ramps elevate the ball to different areas, and the ball can cross over at different spots. I'm looking at an area in the back right of the playfield, and I'm kind of jumping all over the place. But in this one area, you have a playfield-level orbit. You've got an elevated town ramp, that plastic ramp. Above that, you have the plastic ramp going to the gelatinous cube, and above that, you have the arching Vuck thing from other games that we've seen, especially Venom. And it looks like it's almost in the same spot as Venom, slightly off to the side, not mad at it. But in one area, in one plane coordinate, you've got four different levels that the ball can traverse. I love that. And then over on the left, same thing. You've got a metal ramp that you can hit off that upper flipper. Plus you've got orbits buried in there. Plus you've got an inner orbit buried in there. Plus two other plastic ramps going in and out of the dragon. So that's awesome. Add in a subway, and that's probably five altogether. Love that Want to see more of that I like complexity of ramps I like to look at this mess of stuff and I get to figure out like okay how do I hit to get in there And I think the diverters were used appropriately So it looks like we have a lower orbit. The one thing I don't like about this is there's a spinner on it. Now, Venom didn't have a spinner. Venom needed a spinner. Venom needed a spinner so bad that I put one in on the left orbit. And when I did, I found that there was an area where it fit perfectly. there was a cut in the plastics where it looked like it probably was originally and was taken out why do we not have a dragon spinner there on this left orbit i think that'd be the perfect spot i think coming out of the gelatinous cube on the right orbit wouldn't be the best spot because of that retention magnet that's there and the drop to the flipper but man it's a rippable spinner over here under the mountain i think would have been just like the only thing i would have asked for here otherwise it looks like a very serviceable uh approachable flipper oh to the left of the flipper. I'm just kind of noticing now. There is a little shot that's kind of like that piston shot behind the fuel target on Metallica, which kind of cool little dead end shot there is what it looks like. I can't tell if that feeds a ramp or not. It looks like the shot to the left of the dragon will, well, there's probably the diverter there. I see. Okay. So that blue shot to the left of the dragon, when the diverter is down, it will go to the gelatinous cube ramp. And when it's up, it'll go to... I don't even know where this goes.
    9:47
    I'd have to watch some gameplay videos to suss this out. I think it goes to the orbit. And then the metal ramp I'm seeing is off that upper flipper shot that all tucks in there. A lot going on under that mountain. Can we talk about the mountain since we're there? Let's just go left to right in the playfield. Love the big sculpted mountain. Love the big sculpted dragon. Love that they didn't cheap out on the pro and just give us a flat plastic mountain or something. This reminds me of kind of the things that I like from Alice Cooper's Nightmare castle, right? You've got that mountain system on the left, and the orbit shots are underneath it. I'm getting that vibe here, and I love that. Okay, Big Dragon Batty. Wrath is his name. I wonder if he was named after the guy from the Electric Playground, because it's R-A-T-H, is how they were spelling it in the trailer. I was thinking like Wrath, like Wrath of Khan with a W, but it's just like other Wrath. So, I'll call it the Robin Wrath Dragon. That works.
    10:39
    You know, up and down motion on the Pro, the Premium is what gets you that left to right full articulation and the fireballs that come out of them I think that is super cool I wish that there was a bit more to differentiate the premium other than that is that a $3,000 mechanism maybe it's a $2,500 mechanism and then you get the little dungeon pop up that's the other $500 that seems to be the only real difference compelling wise here between the premium LE yeah art is the other thing so yikes even the diverter ramp is there on the Pro. Way to load the Pro, guys. We'll get to that discussion here at the end. Alright, so we've got a couple of ramps coming off of that diverter. I love it. One is a flat orbit shot. Love the orbit. We'll get to the right end of that orbit later, but there's a magnet. It seems like there's a magnet in the gelatinous cube and underneath it. The upper ramp or the upper shot when the diverter's down, we'll get you into that nice plastic ramp coming around. I'm not mad that it's not a wire form. I think plastic's fine for games. For Mandalorian, I would prefer the premium to have the wire forms. In this case though, because of how convoluted it is back there, the plastic does allow you to transmit light better, see what's going on, and Brian Eddy games with plastic ramps like Stranger Things. I'm not mad at it. I think that works, especially for this shot. So, yeah, that's cool. I like that not every ramp is plastic. You got that metal one off the upper flipper. Would that be next? I guess. Let's follow that orb around to the right, underneath the gelatinous cube. There's a magnet underneath there that will hold you underneath the cube, or there's a magnet on top of the cube. I don't know if there's actually two different magnets there, or just one in the cube itself, and it can hold the ball underneath. I would imagine there's probably two there, though. We'll have to see how that mech works later. It's nice that when the magnet's activated, it can grab the ball on that orbit and then soft drop it to the upper flipper. That's always fun, and it varies things up a bit. As long as that orbit is nice and rippable, at least some of the time. I'll be happy with it. I love a rippable orbit. I just wish I had a spinner heading there to the left of the dragon, going in there. Gotta see if there's space to add one, because I think some kinetic satisfaction would certainly be fun. One thing I'm noticing is there's no inlanes on this up at the top there. We saw that with Black Knight Sword of Rage. We see that with Venom had the same thing, where there was an inlane that would roll into pop bumpers. We don't see that utilized here, and I don't really see that there's room for that. And I don't really see that it would really make a point. So I'm not mad at the fact that there's no pop-up birds that are back there. In lieu of that, we get this other inner orbit shot to the right of the dragon that's hittable from the right upper flipper. Possibly from the right main flipper. I don't know. That geometry, I don't know if it works. But like a quick turnaround that serves back and to the right upper flipper. It looks like that will be repeatable. So that's fun. So, I mean, already we've got this giant dragon. We've got this mountain. We've got this blind alley shot to the mimic chest. We got outer orbit, inner orbit, outer orbit has a diverter, goes a gelatinous cube ramp that feeds down to wire forms. Love it, Mang. Love it. Next to that, you got that upper flipper ramp. The metal one that will go up and do a pretty tight angle and then come down from the back of the playfield feeding through the mountain into the wire form. I love that this is wire form here, even on the Pro. They could have done plastic ramps all the way on the Pro. They didn't. They gave us some wire forms at least for the lower part. I think it's where some of that money has gone. So that's a good utilization. The plastic in the back to give you that translucency, especially with lights and seeing what's going on there with orbits. And then feeds into the metal wire forms. Thank you, Chef's Kiss. Love that. That's the part I liked about Mandalorian.
    14:20
    One of maybe the only parts of it was the fact that you had metal ramps on the premium. The pro was all plastic. This one, this one, I like this. I dig this. It was frustrating to go in location and play a Mandalorian where the plastic ramps were just beat to crap, and then you'd see them jiggling around because they were just getting loose. Because as that plastic gets worn and it gets some movement in it, it just wears out even more. The metal will resist that, and if it does get loose, you can tighten it back up with no loss of integrity of that ramp. So I dig it, man. I dig the look of this game. Next to that, we've got a captive ball. Fine. A captive ball into a target. No roof on it. So looking down from the top of the play field, you can see that there's a captive ball there. I guess that could be an opportunity for some sort of castle mod or something to put back there. Next to that, you have the sign for the tavern. I'm sure that could be integrated into its own cool thing. And I don't think you would lose anything by not being able to see that that captive ball is bouncing into a stand-up target.
    15:17
    Can we say officially there's no drop targets in this game? I don't know. I suppose you could have put one in front of the mimic chest and just had one that popped up and down. The fact that that's not there, I don't know that I'm necessarily missing it. I think the only thing I feel like I'm missing really is that spinner on the left orbit. All right, it seems to be a Brian Eddy thing. What else do we got? We got the tavern. Tavern does have a spinner. Thank God there's a spinner in this game. Feeds into the Vuck. Vuck feeds into the plastic wire form and then looks like it will go down to the gelatinous cube and then down the wire form. I like that better than going backwards. and that's probably why they have the Vuk ramp angled such as it is. So not mad at that. That looks fun. Rip a shot right up the middle, right into that spinner. I think we'll get some good spinning satisfaction in there. Maybe build up some bonus points and things as you go to the tavern. If you're playing stall ball, there's your shot. Ball will stall in there and then that will function as your shop. And on the pro, that will function as your dungeon mechanic. So this thing looks intriguing. All right. I've mentioned before, particularly with Jaws, that video modes really kind of changed once we got to Jaws, where you were playing the video mode, which most people would say it does slow the game down. I don't know that it adds a whole lot of fun energy. It's fun on Star Wars, especially with the big multiplier. It's not fun on Venom, where you're just whipping your hair back and forth like Willow Smith circa 2003. but in the case when you have a video mode and you play that video mode not just by pushing flippers but by actually hitting shots I dig that So if you would come to a fork in the road in the dungeon and shots on the right side of the play field would turn right and shots on the other side would go straight or whatever, I think that would work really good. Hopefully it's not a case where there's only two shots on the play field to decide where to go. It's more like shoot the red shots on the right side or the blue shots on the left side to determine where to go next. I think that would be fun. Maybe stand up targets would also allow you to pick that. Um, you know, traveling through a procedurally generated dungeon, um, you know, a bit mild. I hope not every dungeon looks the same, like just that gold brick hallway with nothing much in it. Um, so hopefully as the code develops, they can change the colors of them. Maybe you're in a cave dungeon. Maybe you're in a Mordor type dungeon. Maybe then you're in the gold brick dungeon. That'd be kind of fun to, you know, maybe the dungeons will have different areas. Like you can go into a forest and then, you know, there can be branching patches, branching paths. so I'm holding out some hope there but all I've seen so far is the gold bricks not that I don't think that's insurmountable but yeah I dig that so every Sunday there'll be a new AI generated dungeon and then you can continue your progress as you're playing games I like that and then every Sunday it'll change to at least a different layout so that's kind of fun adds to replayability having these games at home and playing them hundreds of times instead of having a game on location you play tens of times that replay value really helps especially as code develops so for this game this seems like they're really listening to their customers that are largely home based now and want that replay value and want a game in their home that they can play through. Hopefully I'm not shilling this game too much but I am excited about what's here and what I'm seeing. Really my only drawback having gone through half the play field now is I don't have a left spinner on the orbit but everything else seems to be pretty favorable. All right. So what else do we got? Uh, it looks like, uh, another, another right inner orbit maybe that feeds over into the upper flipper. A lot of shots feeding that upper flipper. I like that, especially if there's repeatable shots. Um, yeah, it looks like there's that other inner orbit that can repeat. And then you can also hit that ramp to get back to your left flipper. Nice and safe. I dig it. Not a ton of standup targets along here. I think I'm seeing one to the left of that metal ramp. Uh, and then it's Just post, post, post until you get to that little right orbit shot here that I'm looking at. All right, then you get the other main plastic ramp. It goes back through the backboard of the game. I love that, that they're using some extra area back there. And then that will come down, looks like, and feeds the wire form as well to the left flipper. And then you got the shot up and to the right. So that's cool. What else? We do have an under flipper shot. I think they oversold this one a bit, that right upper flipper. You can lift the flipper, shoot underneath it, and then just goes into a little ball path across a spring switch and then back into play. They called it shooting the temple.
    19:44
    I'm looking at the art here. I don't know. I see like a black knight guy. I don't really see like much of a temple. Maybe someone can make a little 3D printed temple to go up there on top of the wire form or something. But that will be your shot multiplier. It looks cool. It doesn't look like it's hard to get in there. It looks like there's already a pretty big area underneath that flipper. Even when the flipper is closed. So I guess lift it up and shoot for that orbit, and it will probably pop right in there for your bonuses. So nicely used the space. If it wasn't there, I don't know that we would necessarily notice, but the fact that it is there does give some extra gameplay in there. Shooter lane is a basic shooter lane, and there we go.
    20:21
    Yeah, I can dig it. I'm noticing that they've added decals on the flippers here, and that's probably the first time I've seen that from Stern. I'm looking at the pro right now, so that's kind of neat. Let's see. Is this a pro?
    20:36
    Yeah, that was a pro I was looking at. So I'm trying to see with this little dungeon mic that pops up. I didn't talk about that. So shooting straight up the middle, directly in front of the tavern shot is this pop-up, right? This reminds me, of course, of, like, the magical mystery spinner machine that would come up on Led Zeppelin. This is smaller. It looks like it comes up faster. Like, this is coil activated. It just pops right up. And it doesn't look like it's a shoot-through. It looks like you will shoot him there, and then it will just kind of drop into a subway system to feed the dragon. So, yeah, cool.
    21:07
    Oh, I guess one thing about the Premium LE is there is another diverter back on this inner orbit that will allow balls to backfill into the dragon. The dragon himself, on the Pro version, can pop up and down and kind of block the stand-up targets, and that's all the articulation you get. There's no balls that leave the mouth of the dragon on the Pro. On the premium LE, though, there's a diverter back there in the orbits that can feed balls into the dragon. So you get a physical ball lock there, essentially. The dragon can also lower his head and go left and right, which he'll work as a bash toy diverter, blocking the left orbit or blocking that right inner orbit off the upper flipper shot. So kind of interesting mechanism. I'm wondering how well dragon will be holding up having the balls bashed against him. just looking at it I was worried about busted teeth, busted jaw on Dragon however, if Dragon is made out of a similar material as the shark on Jaws for the Premium LE which was a bash toy, having held that in my hands when I took it out when I replaced it with the other one with the Jaws ball eating shark mod it was pretty durable, kind of rubber so hopefully that will hold up and if your dragon does get punctured hopefully that's easily serviceably replaceable but yeah, we'll have to see As long as that lower jaw is holding up That looks like the main part of where the ball will be interacting I think Wrath should probably do Okay, but that's my one Question I have, how is this going to hold up Over time, that's what we're going to find out Once the earlier adopters start getting games And the pro is basically Where it's going to get beat to crap and get all the plays So we'll see how it holds up on The location there, for now I can't really Speculate Alright, so pop up and down dungeon guy What do I think about that? I guess it must be a scoop that pops up because the ball just kind of drops down into it. It's not there on the Pro. The Pro will have, I guess, like a little illumination area is what they were talking about. Maybe just a light-up piece of plastic. It looks like the hole is still cut on the playfield, and this is just a plastic that's over that with nothing underneath it. Does that mean that you'd be able to mod your Pro and add one later? Probably not because you don't have the rest of the mechanisms for the balls to feed some sort of Vuck mechanism into the Dragon. It's probably where a lot of the cost is going to come from. I bet when you lift that play field, this dragon mech is probably a lot bigger than what it looks like from the outside.
    23:28
    Now, gameplay-wise. Okay, so on the pro, if you're going to go into the dungeon, you're probably just going to shoot right up straight into the tavern, which is right behind where the dungeon scoop is. On the premium, you'll shoot the scoop that pops up itself. Now, looking at it, and I've only seen the videos, But it's reminding me of the entrance to the VUX system on Rush, right? Now, originally the game came with this nice wide open area with not much of a cliffy protection around it. It was getting beat to crap, and then they came up with this fix later. The Ninja Crew built, I think, the best fix for it, where you were still able to hit this scoop from left, right, or straight up. The Stern fix just gave you this very rigid entrance. You can only shoot it from one direction. It had those little stubby foam things on either side of it, and it just wasn't as fun. So I really liked the Ninja Camp fix. I really didn't like the Stern fix that came with Rush. This is reminding me of the Stern fix from Rush. It looks like it's pretty narrow. I'll have to play it in a couple of days and say how it feels. But if it's difficult to enter that dungeon on the Premium LE, but it's much easier on the Pro, I think that's kind of almost like a step sideways at least, maybe a step backwards. I'll have to think that they've accounted for that. Looking at the plastic itself, it does look like it's much wider than the width of a standard pinball, so I don't think it'll be too tight. As long as it's not too tight, I think it's fine. As an added feature to the Premium LE, I think that's cool.
    24:56
    It's like the stand-up target on WIC. It doesn't add a ton, but it is cool. So I think this is cool, but the selling point for Premium LE is definitely that dragon. I don't know if we're quite ready to go to a premium LE breakdown on value maybe that a good place to segue I think we covered all the shots here we get to some overall impressions final impressions in the end But which version should you get So I buy premiums and LEs generally exclusively I do have a pro Black Knight. I think that was absolutely the version to get for Black Knight Sword of Rage. But looking at X-Men, I don't think I'd be very upset if I did have the pro there because you still get all the shots and everything. This game seems similar to that. So when I think of which version to buy, generally the premium seems to have the most value for me because I'm getting the full-featured game, similar to the LE, at a lower price, and the features that I tend to add to games, Shaker Motor, Art Blades, and then the mods and everything, the only thing I would really get with the LE would be Shaker Motor, Art Blades, and now Expression Lights. So there is that extra incentive. When I'm looking at $3,000 more for the limited edition, the art generally isn't, well, it's cool, and, you know, the powder coat and the armor, those are things I'm going to do anyway, and I may do it in a way that I think is better than the LE. So that's not a strong selling point for the LE generally for me. The main difference I'm seeing now, though, in the modern era is if the LE comes with cabinet expression lights, which are now $700, and comes with the $250 expression lights and the cabinet. And then you get the kind of nice-to-have things. The powder coat's already done for the most part. You still got to do the coin door and the speaker panel. But you get the Invisiglash. You don't have to install the shaker. It's already there. You get the ArtBlades. Come from the factory. Maybe aftermarket ones might be a little nicer, but whatever. So it makes it a lot easier to justify going LE if the cabinet expression lights are there. I think that's the main differentiator that would really push me into doing that. WIC LE was definitely the one to get. The WIC Premium really didn't have a lot of value because you had to add those lights to get the full features and everything, and then there was more of a separation of price you dig. Plus, the art on the LE was so much better. For this one, since there's not cabinet expression lights, I think this game could have used them because changing the mood with lights would have been awesome. I really wish X-Men had cabinet expression lights, especially when you go to the future because I get that they want it to be blue and different, but it's too dark. I can't see where the hell my ball is. And I think just having some illuminating bluish tones, bluish and green tones, washing in from cabinet expression lights on X-Men would have been amazing. I think this game definitely could have benefited from cabinet expression lights because you could add fire when Dragon's there. I'm sure there's going to be ice monsters or gelatinous cubes where it can throw in some blues and greens. I think this game would have benefited from that. Kind of sucks that they're not there. That would have made the LE a compelling purchase because of that fact. Because it's not in there, I think premium would be fine if you want to have dragon fire. That looks like the coolest feature. I get that the dragon's head can block shots. On the Pro, you're going to have full access to those shots all the time. So the Pro is probably going to flow a lot better. The premium is going to be affected by that dragon getting in your way, and you're going to not have the shots and not have the flow. in exchange for that you get a dragon that spits fireballs across the playfield in one of the coolest moments of the game especially from the trailer, that looked impressive just like boom, boom, boom shooting three shots, spraying them around and then I did hear that they mentioned an eight ball multi-ball during that mode, so that's nuts imagine the shield coming up, there's eight balls in the playfield and just chaos going on Michael Dorn is yelling at you Kevin Smith is screaming at you that's a moment that is only available on Premium LE. So if I was to go ahead and purchase a Premium, I would get laser-cut armor, because I like the look of that on the games. I'd powder-coat everything. I'd probably replace the hinges. I'd have to do the coin door and speaker panel. The whole thing would be done.
    29:05
    I'd have to put in a shaker motor. I'd have to put in cabinet speaker lights. And then the rest of the mods I can make myself. Art blades and stuff I'd pick up from somebody. So, you know, that's like $1,000 worth of upgrades. I'd have to do to a premium. Premium's $10,000. It'd be $11,000 once I was all done with it to have my powder coat and the custom armor and the shaker motor and our blades and stuff and the cabinet expression lights. The interactive lights from the speakers is just a must. So at $11,000 versus $13,000, you're not that far off. But if there was cabinet expression lights, that would be the point of difference. so I think you know if I was having this at my home gosh I'd probably have to go premium and then put in all the work to update it I don't know if I really feel like doing all that right now I just did it with X-Men I had two X-Men's I just did it with Metallica I don't know if I want to jump right in in January of 2025 on another one of those now if I can pick up a premium down the road that already has the shaker and some mods and art blades in it and then pick it up and do that at some point. I think this is a game that would be fun to own at some point, but I don't know if I need to jump out and buy one right now. Now, I could go out and get a pro. I could get a pro and try to deal with the plastic apron issue. I do like the metal aprons much better, but I would have all the shots. But if I'm going to have it in my home, I kind of want to have all the features. I'm just a stickler that way. So I guess, how should you use this in your thinking? If you want this game, which looks like it's going to be packed with gameplay, leveling characters, unlocking characters, procedurally generated dungeon, lots of quests and things. It's the new hotness. I think if you got on a list and got yourself a pro to play for eight months or so and then sell it when your Harry Potter is ready to ship, I think that's not a bad way to go. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that.
    30:58
    If this is a game that you are really compelled to have for a while, maybe you would go premium. Maybe you would even think of going LE. but I don't see that there's a strong, compelling reason to do that, other than the fact that you want to have this cool, long-playing, a lot of replay value game as far as getting new in box. For me, I think my final impressions of this game, final impressions, I've only known about this game for an hour, but I'm not going to rush out and order a Pro, and I'm not going to rush out and order a Premium and an LE. I'm going to stick to my no new in box 2025. We'll see how long I can stick with that. but at least through January we'll take it a month at a time but I'll wait and see how this game comes out now I haven't played it yet and that may change everything completely for me I might be completely enamored maybe they'll give me a free t-shirt and then I'll give them $13,000 and leave with an LE we'll see I'll be down for the media day here in a couple of days on the 7th also programming update I'll be in Chicago at Microphone Brewing on the 10th and I'll be interviewing John Borg talking about Metallica Remastered at the Metallica Remastered Tournament and launch night event at Microphone Brewing happening down in Chicago. That'll be on the 10th. Starts at 6.30. Get there for registration for the tournament. We'll all hang out. I'll be doing live interviews and coverage from there. Super excited about that. Thanks for the invite, guys. But, yeah, this looks to be a Dungeons & Dragons pinball game, a game for nerds. And you guys are pinball nerds. What the heck, you know? I think fantasy themes like this are absolutely what I like to lose myself in the world of pinball. So Stern, yeah, I think they did good. Michael Dorn, what do you think? Come here, tasty traveler. How cool is that, man? Frickin' Worf is talking to us. Come here, tasty traveler. Kevin Smith, how you doing? We're being attacked by a gelatinous cube. That's not Kevin Smith. I'm proud to fight alongside you. When I hear that, man, I just hear, like, Fat Man talking about comic books and video games, dude. It's so funny. I'm proud to fight alongside you. All right. We're being attacked by a gelatinous cube. This is one of the guys from the Internet or whatever. So thanks. Let me know your thoughts. Hit me up at Don's Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. More to come as I record it. There'll probably be a We Are Pinball episode also launching today. It's pinball launch day, man. Get in on it.
    33:15
    Follow on Discord and the Facebook page where you can find me. Post a Discord link at the show notes description, especially on the last show. It's nuts, man. We're having such a good time online. What a great year for pinball. To start off the first week, we get D&D. yeah this is a lot better than Venom it's a lot better than Venom probably a little better than Stranger Things gameplay wise can't wait to play it see you guys later