I love you baby, and if it's quite alright, I need you baby, to warm the lonely night. I love you baby, trust in me when I say. Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I'm your host Kaneda. I'm not feeling very well. I've sort of been battling a cough for a week and now I'm on antibiotics. I probably should not have had a lot of drinks during the Mike Tyson fight on Friday night. That did not help. The fight was terrible. But, you know, here we are talking about pinball. Happy Monday to everybody. And we're going to just go around the pinball horn on this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast and talk about what's going on as all of us are seemingly waiting for the next big pinball move. That's sort of where we're all at. I mean, let's be honest. If we zoom out just a little bit, there are so many games for sale. I've never seen the used market on pinball be so robust. I mean, every single game you want is available, especially all the new games are available for a lot less money than they were brand new. So it is definitely a buyer's market. It's only a seller's market if you're looking to sell a Metallica LE. Those are on the line right now. They look gorgeous. I think people are going to be unboxing them as I speak right now. Everyone's going to have their Metallica LE remastered by Thanksgiving. It is really awesome to see Stern when they actually flex, right? When Stern flexes and shows everybody else in pinball how effective they can be, in making games quickly, it is really amazing. I mean, it takes most boutique companies about a year to do what Stern does in one week. And that is very impressive. Now, we hope the quality of these games is good. We hope there are no issues. Hopefully, it's all going to work out because Metallica was a game that was engineered 12 years ago and they didn't rush it to market 12 years ago like they have some of the more recent releases. So I think all is going to be good when people unbox their Metallicas. I guess we'll start with Stern. So as we look at Stern over the next few months, we've got these Metallicas. They're going to do very limited reruns of the Beatles. I mean, I never thought I'd say more Beatles, new in box, coming back. I don't know. Is it hard to even get a Beatles gold? And can't you get one for cheaper than a new in box price? So I'm not sure who the market is for that game. There's going to be more Stranger Things games. more Black Knight games. So clearly Stern is doing these limited runs. Apparently Godzilla 70th, they're not making any more after this run. See, I don't believe any of that. If you believe that, you have to go back and remember, if they're doing a limited run, it's still not a limited game. And Stern can always rerun these machines. Just remember that. As much as this might be a limited run, it's not a limited edition game. So if you want a new inbox of Black Knight, Stranger Things, or Beatles, they are going to make more of those games. Now is your chance to get your hands on these titles, but everyone is now looking towards the future. The future of Stern Pinball and what does Spike 3 bring to the table? Will Brian Eddy make Dungeons and Dragons an awesome game? And I think everyone's waiting for Brian Eddy to make a game that feels as awesome as Medieval Madness. And so will this finally be the game? Will his ambitions with the mechanisms match up to the enjoyment of the game? Will Dwight code the game in a way that is approachable and fun and not overly complex and confusing? I'm a little nervous because Dungeons and Dragons as a theme is the epitome of complex and confusing for the casual person. Remember, casual gaming was not Dungeons and Dragons. It was like super nerdy geeks that were really into math. And you used a lot of your imagination as you rolled the die and you had to go through all these different dungeons and all these different spells and all this different stuff going on with numbers. And to me, that doesn't translate very well into a pinball experience, which is fast and furious and fun. D&D was like a long, slow, drawn out game. So I'm hoping maybe it's based more on the 80s cartoon show, but we shall see. Now, will it be a Spike 3 game? Everyone's waiting now, right? Anything that's Spike 2 that's not Metallica, I think people are going to be like, oh, it's the old platform. Something we haven't talked about is will Stern make, if they increase the LCD size on a Spike 3 game, will they offer people a chance to upgrade? Will it even be possible to upgrade some of your Spike 2 games and give it the larger LCD screen? You might not be able to upgrade everything else, but maybe the screen size is something that is easy to upgrade. So as you go towards a spike three system and you're in a lineup now and all your future spike three games are going to look a little bit different than your spike two games will stern give you a chance to make all your games look the same we shall see so i expect dungeons and dragons to be sometime end of december so we got a few months to go now after that what do we think is coming from stern pinball. Well, we all know that Keith Elwin and King Kong is coming sometime in 2025. We also know that there's going to be a new game from John Borg sometime in 2025. And I'm not sure if Jack Danger, knowing that he finished a game so quickly with X-Men, has another game coming out. Let's stay on X-Men for a minute. Here's the vibe I'm getting from X-Men. I still think everybody loves the design. I think everybody loves the creativity that Jack Danger put into this game. Will the code become great? Well, I don't think Jack is going to let up on this game. I think he's going to work with the software folks to make this game really fun and get better over time. But I think what everyone is realizing with X-Men is one simple thing. A $6,500 X-Men Pro is really all you need. And the fact that an X-Men LE is $6,500 more than the X-Men Pro is sort of criminal. And you're going to have all the X-Men fun you would ever want with just the Pro version of the game. They really didn't take out that much. They couldn't take out that much. And the extra features of the premium do not justify the extra cost. And so on a game where the software isn't really blowing you away right away and it a long burn kind of game it so much smarter maybe to just buy a pro enjoy the game And you know with these modern sterns the pro version of the game is losing the least amount of money, right? If you buy an LE and it doesn't hold value, you're going to lose $3,000 to $4,000 in a year. You're not going to lose $3,000 to $4,000 on a pro. If that were the case, a pro would be worth $3,500 in a year. At most, you're going to lose just like $1,000 on a pro over an entire year. So I think that's where people are netting out. And once again, the collectors are really going to be left holding the bag. I actually think in general, gang, I've been thinking more and more about pinball. I don't think pinball collecting is very smart anymore. I really don't. I don't think spending $13,000 on an LE and heck $15,000 on a Jersey Jack CE. I just don't think it's smart. I don't think it's smart. I don't think it even telegraphs anything cool anymore. It used to. Now look, Metallica LE is different. Only 500 and there's so much demand. And I think for collecting to come back in the pinball hobby, we need to see great themes. We need to see only 500. We need to get back to that magical number. you know, and we also need the games to be great. Like that's the only way any of these things are going to be deemed like somewhat collectible. And I was just looking at a James Bond LE. These things are now like $8,800. Like it's crazy to me how much these games are going down in value and they're not selling right away. And that's because they made a thousand of them. It's because there's nothing truly special about the LE over the premium. And it's just been three to four years of just all these collectors taking a bath. And it's not even about the money, gang. It really is not. It's just things don't seem like special. They've made the premium so nice. They've made the pros look damn good. It's just like the LE needs to have more stuff on it that you don't see anywhere else. It needs cabinet artwork that's above and beyond better than the other two options. It needs exclusive code. It needs exclusive toppers that sit on top of the game that are interactive. And unless you own the LE, you won't be able to get that experience anywhere else. The fact that this stuff is available to everybody absolutely dilutes seeing those LE machines and feeling like you're in the presence of a truly special version of the game. It's not enough just to have like foil decals and a real mirrored back glass. That's not enough. All right. So one more thing around Stern Pinball that is a little concerning to me. So the rumor, right, that Barry over at Dutch, he's talking to Stern, he's talking to JJP, and the latest I heard is there's still no deal in place. Now we know Keith Elwin wants to make Back to the Future. We know Stern is willing to give Barry a royalty on every single game sold. I think that's the kind of deal they're talking about. And the latest I heard is that Barry might be leaning towards making the game on his own. And I knew this would be the biggest hurdle. The hurdle wasn't the money. The hurdle would always be about the ego. And I think ego is the hardest pill for people to swallow because I think deep down inside, he really feels like this is the moment in which his ship will come in, right? He's gotten past all the drama with the big Lebowski. He's going to make these Alice's for a year. I think he wants to feel what he felt 12 years ago when he marched into Expo with Lebowski and he dropped that game on the world. Remember that? With the penthouse party and all that stuff. And you don't get that. Like he didn't get that when he brought Alice to the show. And I think he wants to get that now. And I think the issue is this. When he did that, right? When he dropped the big Lebowski on the world, there were not like games coming out from a guy named Keith Elwin. Pinball was in a little bit of a lazy rut. It's anything but that now. Like pinball has changed so much over the last 12 years. There are so many amazing pinball machines. I would argue that the best pinball the world has ever seen has come out in the last 12 years. Bar none. There are so many good games. You don't need to own 30 games. You get like the top five games. Like if you go down on the pin side top 100 and you look at the top five games that have come out in the last like 10 years, you are going to have some of the best pinball ever made easily. You're never going to feel like you need more pinball machines and you're going to be playing masterpieces that are magical. That's it. And when Big Lebowski came out, I don't think any of those top 10 games were at the top of the list. I think the games that Lebowski improved upon were older games. And now we're seeing so much good stuff in pinball. And so like, I don't know how this whole thing is going to net out, but I do know there's just no way forward for Dutch Pinball to actually manufacture the games. Like there's just no way. The most they can make a year right now is like 500 games. What good does that do you? If they just get 3,000 orders for Back to the Future, let's say that's all they want to make. That's like six years they have to make the game for 3,000 orders. Like it just doesn't make any sense. If Stern gets 3,000 orders for Back to the Future, we know they're going to get way more. But let's just say Stern can almost make all of those games in a month and a half. Barry gets his check for a few million dollars. Keith Elwin makes one of the greatest pinball machines of all time. It's got one of the most robust code software teams in the history of pinball. It's internet connected. It's everything, right? What more could you ask for? Like it's a win-win-win if Barry inks a deal with Stern Pinball and gets the game to market. if he decides to take it in-house, which is where I am hearing he is leaning now, I think it's going to create a lose, lose, lose. And I think by the time he regrets it, it might be too late. And I think the thing he should worry about, and I mean this, Stern has a really strong relationship with Universal. I worry that Barry is going to overplay his hand. He's going to get a little too greedy on what he wants, and he might lose the license out from underneath them. They're not trying to take it out from underneath them. Nobody is. But if he gets really stubborn and he gets a little greedy and he goes down this road where it's like, well, we're going to do it. I don't care what they say. That's not enough money. I don't know what happens when Universal starts to learn the realities of how these companies operate. So wait a minute. You can only make 500 a year and this company over here can make 5,000 easily I don know the way the contracts work but there might be an out clause by Universal and Stern might try to go down that road Again they not trying to go down that road now If I were Barry I would see the benefit of having the number one manufacturing company make the game that's going to have the most demand ever in the history of pinball over the last 10 years. It's just that simple. It seems like a win win. The only reason not to do it is if you want to be the rock star. And I think this is a moment where you look hard in the mirror and you say, look, I did a good thing. I inked the deal. They made a mistake. They're going to pay for that mistake and everybody's going to win if we work it out. All right, so that's Stern Pinball. Let's go over to Jersey Jack. Apparently, Jersey Jack is showing up to IAAPA with games where if you buy a game on the floor or a game at the show, it's going to be on sale. And so they're going to put Toy Story on sale, Godfather, Elton John machines on sale. There are still Elton John CEs at distros. And here's the thing. We just need to stop with this ridiculous environment that needs to be in place for a company to just admit that the demand for your game is nowhere near where it used to be or needs to be to justify these prices and just put the damn products on sale. Like some of these games are like three years old. like last year's model much like a car on a car dealership lot you get a discount i understand what that telegraphs to the people that paid in fall but it doesn't matter like stop with the shenanigans of only if we bring it to a show only if we unbox it and put it on the show floor are you going to get a thousand dollars off the game enough with this nonsense there are distros and dealers sitting with your product that they cannot move. Just stop with this map pricing BS. Allow them to sell GNR, Toy Story, Godfather, Elton John. Allow them to advertise those games for sale at the market price. A GNR LE in a box game, you can't even move it for $7,000. And so a new in-box GNR LE is like $6,500. It's the price of a Stern Pro. But no dealer can legitimately list it for that because the problem is if you sell GNR LE in a box for $6,500, good luck getting anybody to buy Avatar LE for $12,000, let alone the CE for $15,000. It's not happening. So Jersey Jack, it's all about Harry Potter. That is around the corner. Avatar, as you know, I think is dead on arrival. They are going to make the CEs sometime. I don't know. They were supposed to be in November. Now I'm hearing December. So we shall see. Apparently there is not a fix for the UV light issues in the game. I think what you see is what you're going to get or what you don't see is what you're going to get. And it's going to be a beautiful game. It's not going to light the community on fire. Those who own it, I think, will enjoy it. All pinball is fun. But as you know, it's a $15,000 CE that's going to lose $5,000 in a year. Heck, it's going to lose $5,000 when Harry Potter comes out. Let's face it. This game is not holding. And larger than that, Jersey Jacks just lost. They've just lost like people's desires to collect and own every Jersey Jack game. They've just put out too many duds like over the last three to four years. And nobody feels like they want to own every one. It's a shame. It's a shame for a company that only makes one game a year. Remember this for a company that only makes like one game. It's not even here like one game. Normally they were like at one game every like 14 or 18 months for a company that has everything focused on one game only. Every game should be a masterpiece. Can you imagine if Stern Pinball only made one game a year and all of its talent was applied to one game? It's crazy to me that Jersey Jack still, after all this time, isn't launching with home run after home run after home run. Will Harry Potter be the home run? I would love to say it needs to be, but with billions backing them, nothing matters. All right, let's go to Spooky Pinball. So there is supposed to be the darling of the year. Spooky Pinball is Evil Dead. That is really the only new game I think we're going to see. We're probably going to see a teaser sometime this month, and then we will see the reveal sometime in early December. There's been no leaks, which is good. We've heard rumors that the game is going to be loaded with mechanisms, a large cabin that spins and locks balls. I think we're going to see Spooky's best game to date. I think for a lot of people out there, that's kind of like a glass half full or a glass half empty statement because for some people spooky games have never been at the same caliber as like a stern they haven't made like amazing game after amazing game and so as we keep saying every spooky game is an improvement and it is have they made yet a game that is universally loved have they made yet a game where everybody sees like the creativity and the genius and it can hold its own against the other games in the pinball market. And they keep getting closer. I think where this company will always win is they're transparent, they're friendly, they never rip anybody off, and they try and they communicate their passion and their passion for pinball comes through in every game. And I think when you own a spooky product, you know you're going to put up with some quirkiness, some quality issues. But when you call over there, someone's going to pick up the phone and someone's going to help you out and I don't think they're going to leave you stranded. Now yes you would like to buy a product in which you don't have to pick up the phone in which there aren't those issues but I think this is going to be a good launch for Spooky. Evil Dead is not a theme for me. It's not a movie I grew up watching. It's not a movie where I can recall like lines from the movie. I wouldn't get an Evil Dead tattoo. From what I know from the Evil Dead fan base, Army of Darkness is really the one that everybody would want. I think this is based on the first two movies, but I think they're going to make 666. I think they're going to make something like that. It's not going to be a ton of them. There's only going to be one version of the game. I think it's going to be an instant sellout. I do. I think Spooky has found this window where they release a game and nobody else is crowded at that time of year. They release a game with no competition in the marketplace in terms of like other games for sale. And I think next to a $15,000 Avatar game that's a little numb and a little soulless, I think they're going to hit with a game with a lot more personality. I think it's going to be 50% cheaper than Avatar CE. And it's just going to be different. And that's why I always say, for me, pinball is about Stern and then everybody else. And everybody else, to be successful, is a boutique company. And you just need to make enough demand to sell the amount of boutique games you want to sell. And I think that's going to work out for Spooky here. I think Christopher Franchi over there making the games look stunning is also going to be huge for this game You know we don always talk about that but he one of the best pinball artists out there and his stuff just looks really good He got the perfect style for pinball So I think it going to come together nicely I really do. I also don't think this is going to be like a game where the code is so incomplete. I think you're going to see assets. I think you're going to see video clips from the movies where the voices are synced up with the movie, unlike Avatar. All right, so I think a very good year for Spooky. Eventually, they're going to hit with something I want. Maybe it's Gremlins. Maybe it's Beetlejuice. But this company's got some themes lined up. One day, they're going to make a game that I really want. It needs to be a theme I really want. I don't think they have the Goonies. I think Goonies is going to be barrels of fun. So let's go over to them. When are we going to see Goonies, right? Barrels of Fun, Labyrinth. I mean, it feels like Labyrinth came out 10 years ago, doesn't it? Like, I'm so tired. I know they're not tired of hearing about it, but I'm just tired. Like, Labyrinth, it's been a year, right? It's been a year. That game came out like a year ago. They've been making them. They're not going to sell all 1100. Still wish Jennifer Connelly was in the game. I don't know how you leave her out of that game. It's fine. It is what it is. now everyone wants to see what's next. When you look at Labyrinth, the one thing not in that game, there's not a lot of toys in that game. There's just not. You just can't have people's heads popping up on sticks. That's not a toy. So I'm looking forward to seeing the battle between Barrels, which is a company that is made up of people that all came from Spooky Pinball. Where do you think David David Van Es came from? He was at Spooky Pinball. He wanted Spooky Pinball to make the Labyrinth. they didn't want to make it. And so now we're going to see this nice friendly battle between these boutique companies. Will Spooky Pinball run circles around barrels when it comes to mechanical magic in a game? I think barrels has to step up with a lot more mechanical wow in their sophomore effort. But I haven't heard anything. I haven't heard anything. I think it might be the Goonies. But other than that, this company does a good job in keeping its stuff private and secret. They don't have leaks. I know people know what's going on, but they do a good job not leaking what's next. So what else we got? We got Chicago Gaming Company. We got a company that is now apparently transparent because they're talking to Jason Knapp. Jason, good on you. You got them to say stuff. Pulp Fiction LEs are still not on the line for America. Let's get those games over to Europe. Let's get those games over to Europe. first all right whatever whatever i never understood that strategy it takes a long time on a boat let's get those games over there first and then the american games will be made then they're gonna make more medieval madness games all right we know all this so not a lot of new stuff happening over there i think everybody's patience is up with cgc and again i think pulp fiction will be all right you know there's nothing new coming you're gonna see the topper and you're gonna realize it wasn't worth a two-year delay to get the game, but I'm just over them in general. Even now, who is the voice of Chicago Gaming Company? Is it Doug? He doesn't talk to anybody. There's no Facebook videos. There's no YouTube videos. There's no real presence of a company. And I'm sorry, but in a pinball industry like ours, you need to have some publicly facing personalities that get people excited about your brand. And Chicago Gaming Company does none of that. Where's Mr. Sharp? Like he's over there with Play Mechanics. He doesn't say anything. I mean, people are still waiting on this Cactus Canyon code update. That's been like two to three years waiting for that. But nobody's out there. Nobody's out there like generating hyper excitement for this company. And that's why in my book, they're very easily forgettable. And they haven't done enough to earn our attention and earn our enthusiasm for pinball. I'm sorry. They need to do more. We got CGC. Turner Pinball is making games. Kerry Hardy went over there. There's a good YouTube video of a Q&A with Chris Turner. Definitely check that out. He's going to get all these 100 games made. And then we'll see what's next from Turner Pinball. Who am I missing? Who am I missing? P3 Multimorphic. Where are these Princess Bride games? You know, I don't know. Is it taking a long time to get those swords glued to the sides of the cabinet? I can't wait to see people unboxing those games. I would love to just have a multi-morphic. If you're a friend of Jerry, tell him this. Hey, just send Kaneda a game. It might be beneficial. Send Kaneda a game. Let him play it for like a month and then take the game back. Pick it up. Like I would happily do that. I don't know. You know, for some of us pinball personalities out there, it is surprising to me that these companies never mail us a sample game to jump on, fall in love with, and then promote it to our audiences. You know what I'm saying? It's like in every other industry, they would mail you stuff. And I mean it. It's not just the price of pinball that keeps them from doing it. Because think about it. A stereo review company will mail a stereo reviewer a Macintosh amplifier or BMW speakers that might cost like $100,000 in total to review the product. I'm going to give it back, guys. I'm not going to keep your game. All right. I'm probably missing a few companies. We're going to end by saying American Pinball. Everybody's waiting for Cuphead. Now there's more speculation that things are not going well. It's the same story. It's the same story. I don't expect them to pull a rabbit out of the hat. We shall see. It's another brand that's just kind of dead right now. When your brand is dead, the only way to recover if your pinball brand is dead is with a hit game. We will easily forget all of the troubles you've had if your current game is amazing. That's the only way out. Do I think Ryan McQuaid will do it with Cuphead? Not a theme that I would have selected. And again, where is it? I just need to evaluate the game. I'm so tired of speculating about their financial status. Clearly, they're not making a lot of money with these other games and clearly tank force kind of tanked the company but will cuphead get them out of it the problem is those previous failures are going to make it really hard for mukesh to give them money to make cuphead and so this thing might not get off the ground so we shall see everybody i can't wait to have more energy for each and every one of you but thank you for being a subscriber we'll talk more pinball this week kaneda out Thank you. Oh, baby.