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Episode 41 - Companies Sabotaging Their Own Releases?

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·1h 0m·held·Mar 5, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Hosts critique manufacturers for announcing games before shipping current titles, dampening hype.

Summary

Kent Cromwell and Bill Webb of Special When Lit Pinball Podcast discuss their expectations for Texas Pinball Festival (TPF), speculating on what each major manufacturer will show. They critique American Pinball strategy of revealing Sherlock Holmes while Oktoberfest hasn't shipped, drawing parallels to past industry failures. They praise Deep Root Pinball decision to skip TPF rather than show unfinished games, and express disappointment at the lack of new reveals from most manufacturers.

Key Claims

  • American Pinball revealed Sherlock Holmes while Oktoberfest hasn't shipped yet, potentially killing hype for Oktoberfest

    high confidence · Kent and Bill discussing American Pinball release strategy; they note Oktoberfest was revealed in October 2018 and we're now 5-6 months later at TPF

  • Jersey Jack Pinball's Wizard of Oz is their best-selling game so far

    medium confidence · Bill states 'it's their best selling game so far, allegedly' when discussing multiple Wizard of Oz editions

  • Spooky Pinball pre-sold all 500 Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle units

    high confidence · Both hosts confirm they have pre-orders spoken for, differentiating Spooky's situation from other manufacturers

  • Deep Root decided not to bring anything to TPF and will release on their own schedule

    high confidence · Kent states 'Deep Root and Robert Mueller essentially said, for whatever reason, we are not bringing anything to TPF this year'

  • Cactus Canyon Complete Code exists and has been demonstrated on Straight Down the Straight Down the Middle: a pinball show

    high confidence · Bill confirms seeing a stream and review by Zach Minney and Greg Bone demonstrating the complete code

  • Chicago Gaming Company has either decided on or is working on an original-theme pinball game

    medium confidence · Bill relays secondhand information: 'I've heard that they do have an original theme that they've either decided on or that is in the works'

  • Deep Root was working on five game titles: Alice in Wonderland, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, Fire and Brimstone, Magic Girl, and a Dennis Nordman original

    medium confidence · Bill speculates about Deep Root Pinball pipeline based on 'machines that they were supposedly working on'

  • Steve Ritchie next game after Munsters is believed to be 'Getaway' but remains unconfirmed

    medium confidence · Kent states 'We hope it's getaway, but we'll see' and 'it's up in the air, right? We still don't know'

Notable Quotes

  • “It's like Wizard of Oz: The Search for More Money, Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road Limited Edition.”

    [name withheld pending review] — Humorous critique of Jersey Jack's multiple Wizard of Oz limited editions, suggesting over-milking a successful title

  • “You built this hype train for Oktoberfest, and now we're teasing Sherlock Holmes. But the train is gone. Oktoberfest get left at the station?”

    Bill Webb — Core critique of American Pinball's marketing strategy of announcing the next game before the current game ships

  • “If it's just down the road, it better be in the factory on the line getting ready to be ripped.”

    Bill Webb — Reflects industry trauma from past failures and broken promises, demanding proof before accepting delivery timelines

  • “Why would you screw that up? You've got the Monster Bash being sold, and I don't know exactly where they are at with numbers.”

    [name withheld pending review] — Advocates for focusing on current production rather than revealing next titles prematurely

  • “I think it was better for them to take it on the chin and push their date than screw around and be in a position like everybody else has been.”

    Bill Webb — Praises Deep Root's decision to skip TPF rather than show unfinished games, valuing integrity over FOMO

  • “Better that than send out crap or stuff with problems.”

    [name withheld pending review] — Endorses quality control and proper release timing over rushed announcements

  • “I think as we move towards the future, some of these homebrews are going to be like, you know, rookies in AA and AAA that are going to be called up to the bigs, maybe sooner than later.”

    [name withheld pending review] — Projects future significance of homebrew pinball scene in the industry

  • “A grail is a game that you've sought after for a long time, and now that you have it, despite play or whatever debacles might be wrong with it, you're going to keep it, period.”

Entities

[name withheld pending review]personBill WebbpersonTexas Pinball FestivaleventStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyChicago Gaming Companycompany

Signals

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball announcing Sherlock Holmes while Oktoberfest hasn't shipped yet is dampening customer enthusiasm for the older title and shifting focus to newer options

    high · Bill: 'You've built this hype train for Oktoberfest, and now we're teasing Sherlock Holmes. But the train is gone.' Kent: 'Now anyone that might have been in on Oktoberfest might be like, you know, I love Sherlock Holmes. I'm going to wait now. Right, exactly. You just drop that customer.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Hosts invoke industry history of failed promises and broken timelines (Alien, Big Lebowski) to justify skepticism toward new announcements without proven manufacturing capability

    high · Bill: 'We've seen how many companies come and go and fail and promises after promises after promises... So when you start hearing these, you know, oh, it's just down the road. If it's just down the road, it better be in the factory on the line getting ready to be ripped.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack Pinball's strategy of releasing multiple Wizard of Oz limited editions is reaching saturation; hosts question when the editions will stop coming

    high · Kent: 'When do you run out of limited editions of Wizard of Oz? It just keeps coming and coming and coming.' Bill notes 4-5 follow-ups in years since original release.

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball's pre-sold inventory (500 units) allows them to tease Scott Danesi's second game without cannibalizing current sales, differentiating them from competitors who announce too early

    high · Kent: 'The difference being they've pre-sold all of their pre-orders... So at that point if they want to tease a second game they're not necessarily losing sales'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.183

0:00
coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land welcome to episode number 41 of the special when lit pinball podcast i'm kent cromwell and i am bill webb and we are gonna be bringing you i don't know what we're gonna be bringing you today but it's gonna be different because dude there's not a whole lot happening in pinball as we lead up to TPS. But I think a good part of this is creating your own content. Yeah, right. And that's what we're going to be creative today. We reached out to some of the listeners who gave us some interesting ideas. We had one idea that came in via PM that we're going to knock out today. But the other episodes that are coming up, we can absolutely feature some of these listener requested topics. First and foremost, it's your show. So I mean, we want to drive it the way in which you want to be engaged. So we're absolutely going to do that uh before we start getting into um a little bit of everything what's happening with you bill anything good just living the dream you know frozen tundra in chicago still so kind of sucks yeah dude i i'm sick of it man it's uh what are we first week of march and it's like literally outside right now it's like seven degrees yeah it's terrible i've had it i cannot wait you know what's gonna happen we're gonna end up jumping on a plane leaving here and it'll be like 65 or 60 and it'll be 55 down there it'll be like 35 in yeah texas it's record cold for texas i know it might be us it might be hey guess what though dude that still be sweatshirt weather for us for what we've been dealing with yeah and i'll take it um anything over 35 right now i'm appreciative of and in fact it was it was right around 35 this weekend i literally i was out in shorts and uh just like a hoodie and i felt great if it like 35 is a new 65 yeah in uh chicago right now as far as uh as far as texas pinball festival goes i wanted to talk a little bit about what your expectations are for tpf and i mean obviously we're both excited so what i thought we would do is talk a little bit about what we want to see what we hope to see and let's go manufacturer by manufacturer and let's speculate what we think will show up what we are pretty confident won't show up and what we wish would have shown up if that works for you i like it all right i mean i I think, honestly, we should just start with Stern Pinball. Stern seems to be the front runner with all these things. What do you think that we're going to see at TPF with Stern Pinball? I just think they're going to still be riding the Munsters train, have the pro and the premium there so people can get a chance to play it. I don't see them dropping a new game right now. It's still too close to Munsters dropping for that to make sense. Yeah, I would agree. You know, Stern doesn't follow the show schedule as far as releases anymore. I do agree there will be a presence of Munsters, And I know that they have like the VIP monsters package that they have set up at Texas Pinball Festival. So I agree. It would be cool if they were able to bring the next game or mention the next game. But you're right. It absolutely makes no sense for them to do that. Right. No. Yeah. That's not their forte of giving into the show hype and, you know, controlling shows that way anymore. It doesn't seem we're still waiting on what we think is going to be Steve Ritchie's next game being released. And, you know, it's up in the air, right? We still don't know. Nope, nope. We hope it's getaway, but we'll see. Jersey Jack Pinball, I know that as a new Woz owner, Wizard of Oz, you've had a great appreciation for Jersey Jack Pinball, as do I, with their builds, with the amount of effort that goes into their mechanics and with their deep code sets. What do you think that we're going to see out of Jersey Jack Pinball as we get down to Texas Pinball Festival? It's rumored to see the Yellow Brick Road Edition Wizard of Oz, so I'm real curious to see that. There's been word of maybe new features on it. Now, Yellow Brick Road Edition has not officially been confirmed by JJP, as far as I know. No, no. It's just been publicly talked about. That's why we're kind of riding this train. And the speculation is that we're going to see Willy Wonka coming up next and that Wizard of Oz, the Yellow Brick Road limited edition is just kind of to keep the line busy while they set up the line for Willy Wonka, right? Yeah. And why not, dude? I mean, it's their best selling game so far, allegedly.

  • Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road Limited Edition Wizard of Oz has been rumored but not officially confirmed by Jersey Jack Pinball

    medium confidence · Bill notes 'Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road Limited Edition has not officially been confirmed by JJP, as far as I know. No, no. It's just been publicly talked about'

  • American Pinball's Oktoberfest artwork changes include moving the 'mustache girl' character from a prominent to a less visible position on the plastic

    high confidence · Kent quotes Josh Coogler from PinSide discussing the character relocation for the re-reveal

    • Bill Webb — Defines personal collector terminology for discussing emotional attachment to machines

  • “I don't think there is such thing as a keeper for me because [I'm a picky bastard].”

    [name withheld pending review] — Reveals Kent's collecting philosophy: extremely selective and unwilling to settle

  • “I'd rather keep it to myself.”

    Bill Webb — Declines to publicly commit to Game of the Year prediction before Twippies awards

    • Deep Root Pinball
    company
    Multimorphiccompany
    The Wizard of Ozgame
    Munstersgame
    Oktoberfestgame
    Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
    Monster Bashgame
    Cactus Canyongame
    Getawaygame
    Sherlock Holmesgame
    Willy Wonkagame
    Toy Storygame
    Robert Muellerperson
    Scott Danesiperson
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    Steve Beattieperson

    community_signal: Deep Root Pinball's decision to skip TPF rather than show unfinished games is being praised by hosts as prioritizing product quality and company reputation over FOMO-driven announcements

    high · Kent: 'That was my biggest disappointment in regards to something I was really looking forward to with our first TPF.' Bill: 'I think it was better for them to take it on the chin and push their date than screw around and be in a position like everybody else has been.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Chicago Gaming Company rumored to be working on both Cactus Canyon remake and original-theme game; hosts are uncertain which will materialize first or if both are viable

    medium · Bill: 'I think Cactus Canyon and this original theme, it's one or the other at this point. There's no way they have both done.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Oktoberfest's original artwork featured a 'mustache girl' character that drew criticism; artist resisted removal but agreed to move it to less prominent position on plastic for re-reveal

    high · Kent quotes Josh Coogler: 'I tried to get her removed completely I found it to be a touch disturbing but the artist was not inclined to do so but at least she got moved to a less prominent position'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Hosts articulate personal collecting philosophy distinguishing 'grail' games (permanent keepers regardless of flaws) from 'keeper' games (potentially liquid assets)

    high · Bill defines grail as 'a game that you've sought after for a long time... you're going to keep it, period' vs keeper that 'could potentially be for sale'; Kent claims no true keepers exist for him

  • ?

    event_signal: Hosts anticipating Twippies awards at TPF with focus on Game of the Year, Best Sound, and artwork/design categories; expressing interest in Jerry Thompson's sound design and Beatles' sound package

    high · Kent: 'I would like to see Beatles win for sound... dumbing down some of the sound quality so it all sounded seamless and timeless and from the same time era'

  • ?

    content_signal: Special When Lit planning to broadcast episode at TPF with Steve Beattie guest appearance, then follow up with recap upon return; Steve gained community notoriety from Pinball Expo chicken-eating incident

    high · Kent: 'Steve Beattie has been on our pinball adventures for a long time. But Expo, he gained a little bit of notoriety and fame with eating the bucket of warm chicken that was brought to Expo'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Cactus Canyon Complete Code is a significant value differentiator for Chicago Gaming Company's rumored Cactus Canyon remake; availability would influence collector interest and pricing of originals

    high · Bill: 'If the Cactus Canyon Complete Code... is an upgrade, I would absolutely be interested. Especially if you could get one of those in just the standard edition for the $6,000 or $6,500, I think that would be a bargain'

    • 4:14
    I would much rather see Willy Wonka at TPF. I completely understand why we wouldn't see Willy Wonka at TPF. I think the thought process now at Jersey Jack Pinball is to make sure that they have a game that's ready to ship before they reveal a game. It keeps the pressure off the staff in delivering for the customers. I just don't know that I'd care to see another Wizard of Oz being revealed. It seems like there's 28 versions of Wizard of Oz, and I just know for certain that the Emerald City Limited Edition was like the original first one, right, with the wooden apron and the screen-printed cabinets. And then the other one I know for certain is that Ruby Red Edition, which was like the upper echelon Cadillac version of that pinball machine. So what is Yelver Red Edition? You might not be excited about it, but I have to disagree with you. I am looking forward to seeing that. I would rather see Willy Wonka, but I'm curious to see what they've changed on Wizard of Oz. How old is Wizard of Oz? I mean, when did it come out? It's timeless is what it is. Right. But I mean, since the day it's been released, there's been like four or five years. follow-ups of Wizard of Oz, Wizard of Oz, Wizard of Oz, Wizard of Oz. I think the game is great, and I'm happy that it's such a successful pin for Jersey Jack Pinball. I just, when do you run out of limited editions of Wizard of Oz? It just keeps coming and coming and coming. It's like it's not going to go away. Dude, it's Wizard of Oz, The Search for More Money, Yellow Brick Roadhead Edition. I guess you drive the Wizard of Oz train until it runs out of gas. Dude, it's a great game. When do you see innovation like that? Well, I mean, it was very innovative for the time, especially when you compare the mechanics that you see on modern-day pinball. Even now. Yeah. Even now. But, I mean, it is modern. I mean, it's not like it came out 20 years ago. No, it's like six years old now. Six years old. And it was cutting edge for its time just because we weren't used to seeing those kinds of intricate builds. And it's still cutting edge to my view. I agree. I think it was ahead of its time then, and now it's like at par with what could be and what should be done. Ahead of its time. What do you mean by that? I mean, ahead of its time in comparison to where pinball currently was at six years ago? Definitely, without a doubt. Dude, it was blowing the doors off of everything then. Right. I mean, it's equivalent to what we saw in the past, in the heyday, right, of the 90s Valley Williams era. I mean, I can't really think of too many games that have more mechs, multiple upper play fields, and I mean, the game was killer. Dude, you got a flying house and the ruby red slippers fly out. Now, I haven't reached that mode yet, but that's one thing that I'm looking forward to. Oh, yeah. You know, and the mods that are available for the game make it incredible. So here we're talking about Wizard of Oz here. As we're in TPF, like, 2019, we're talking about Wizard of Oz. I would hope to have seen something else, but I do not blame them whatsoever for not revealing anything else until they're ready to do it. And we've talked about this before, but Willy Wonka and Toy Story, which you want to see Toy Story more than Willy Wonka. I do. I mean, I think they're both absolutely solid themes, though. So, I mean, whichever way they decide to go, I don't think there's a wrong direction. But coincide that Toy Story with the movie release just makes complete sense to me to do that. It does. But even if you pushed it to an October, you know, let's say this, a September reveal, so you can get it out the door by Christmas. Dude, that thing would blow up. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, and speaking of October, why don't we go over to American Pinball? What do you think we're going to see from American Pinball at Texas Pinball Festival? The re-release of Oktoberfest? The re-release of Oktoberfest. And when did we originally see the original release of Oktoberfest? October. October of 2018. Yeah. And here we are. We've got October, November, December, January, February, March. So approximately five, six months later, they've made their changes to the artwork. They've tweaked their shots. And now we're going to see a re-reveal of Oktoberfest. Is that exciting to you? Anything worth doing once is worth doing twice, I guess. Really? I mean, I was excited to see it at Expo. Yeah. I'm not excited to see it again at TPF.
    8:21
    And it's not because I don't think it's a good pin. It's just this is the problem that I'm having, I guess. It's not a problem, but the thing that is puzzling to me is this pin has not come out the door yet, and they're already talking about their next game. And they haven't shipped Oktoberfest. And it's – I don't get it. I mean, somebody explain it to me.
    8:41
    You've built this hype train for Oktoberfest, and now we're teasing Sherlock Holmes. But the train is gone. No, so does Oktoberfest get left at the station? And they're just going to – whatever happens because we're already moving on to the next game. But it's literally like the Jersey Jack when they dropped Pirates of the Caribbean just a little too early. Another mess, though. I mean, why? How could you not learn from that mistake if you're another company? And in all fairness to American Pinball, I might be missing the broad picture here, and I'm not a pinball company. I'm not an advertising firm. I just I can't I can't really wrap my head around revealing a pin six months ago, re-releasing it or after changes after six months. But before that, these games are even shipping. We're talking about their next game. Yeah, you're throttling up the hype train on something else. It's in your last game that the hype train has already left the station and you haven't got one out. Right. So if you're a potential buyer at American Pinball, are you going to jump on Oktoberfest? or are you going to wait to see what one of four games potentially could be? I mean, what's the greater draw? Would it be like a Sherlock Holmes? Would it be a Robin Hood, a Valkyries, or a Poker Run? Or is it Oktoberfest? So it's Oktoberfest versus the field at that point. Well, yeah, because now anyone that might have been in on Oktoberfest might be like, you know, I love Sherlock Holmes. I'm going to wait now. Right, exactly. You just drop that customer. I mean, Sherlock Holmes is a more recognizable theme than Oktoberfest is. And again, we're not in Oktoberfest season at all. I don't think anybody's really thinking about grabbing their beer steins and grabbing some Wiener schnitzel here as we're in March. You could be ahead of the curve and have it in the garage ready for October. But, you know, here's the thing about that, though. You know, we were talking about this. So have you ever burned your hand before? Yeah, of course. Okay. And when your child started washing their hands, you said, hey, this is the hot water. Don't burn your hand. What do they do? All right. Don't touch it. It's hot. Yeah. They have to learn because they don't understand. And, you know, to their credit, maybe they're just learning like a child.
    10:50
    Okay. I mean, it could be. I mean, that's keeping it real. It is keeping it real. And, again, no disrespect intended because we're happy that American Pinball is rocking out some games. I just I cannot figure out why we are discussing their next title when Oktoberfest isn't even shipping I just I don't get it and then so we're going to go we're going to see some changes to the artwork of the game and it's funny because on one of the plastics of the original Oktoberfest they took a little bit of heat for like this this mustache girl right and I saw Josh Coogler he posts on pin side he's like uh and I'm just gonna kind of quote him out here he says things have changed on the plastics really not sure how much have really not compared uh the sherbart webel verb mustache competition plastic is still there but the woman's been moved to the back part so she's not nearly as visible this is awesome i tried to get her removed completely i found it to be a touch disturbing but the artist was not inclined to do so but at least she got moved to a less prominent position so it's funny that this art package like the one thing that the artist was really particular about was keeping the mustache girl on the plastic. I don't know the artist that did Oktoberfest. I have mixed feelings on the art package. I can appreciate the direction in which it was going.
    12:08
    For me, it's not a complete – it doesn't feel as cohesive. Maybe it's not intended to be cohesive. But I just found it funny that Josh is like, man, the mustache girl found a little concerning.
    12:18
    But the artist was so strong on keeping her in there that he just moved to the back of the plastic where she's not so noticeable. So I think when Oktoberfest was first revealed, man, in all honesty, I was I was really pumped up about it. And I thought it made complete sense to do Oktoberfest. And I still think that it does. It's just now the timing of the release in conjunction with discussing your next release. I just don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I think that's the only way that I can say it's already made me think past Oktoberfest. I still want to play it. I still could potentially see myself owning it, because if it's a fun shooting pin, as somebody that, you know, I'm a beer drinker. I enjoy beer. I can see me owning Oktoberfest as a party pin.
    13:02
    I just don't get the delivery method here. You know, and here's part of the problem, too. You have to know our history, though. So we've seen how many companies come and go and fail and promises after promises after promises and, you know, two weeks, two weeks. Yeah, right. To, you know, Alien and Big Lebowski and all this other crap. So when you start hearing these, you know, oh, it's just down the road. It's just down the road. If it's just down the road, it better be in the factory on the line getting ready to be ripped. Yeah, and I appreciate that. Now, because you lose it all. They held back to make changes, but it's like, fine, hold back, make changes, relaunch a TPF. But guess what? People are at TPF that are playing Oktoberfest. The conversation is going to be like, you think they're doing Sherlock Holmes? Do you think they're doing Valkyries? Do you think they're – but Oktoberfest has to be sold. uh and i don't want to be the dead horse so we can just switch uh companies here unless you have anything else that you want to say you know what i think we're we're super critical of this just because the history and pinball and with what's happened we've seen this happen so you know everybody in my opinion it seems like everybody has to go through this growing pain that learning experience where you know you have to suffer financially uh spooky pinball at tpf they will have a presence there uh what do you anticipate seeing from spooky nothing new in all in all fairness i don't plan i wouldn't expect anything new to be coming out of their doors right now they got 500 uh alice cooper nightmare castles yeah right i said well we should see that at tpf which would be nice because i yet to play that game i've yet to flip it yeah have you no i haven't either i've seen the streams i think it looks cool artistically uh i thought it was well done I want to get an idea for the shot layout. Now, the other thing that we could wish to see, which, again, makes no sense to reveal, would be Scott Denise's second game, his follow-up to TNA.
    14:51
    And this is where it's different. They have been teasing this game. Spooky Pinball has been teasing Scott Denise's second game. Now you think to yourself, well, it makes no sense because they're not done making these Alice Cooper Nightmare Castles. The difference being they've pre-sold all of their pre-orders. So if they making what is it 500 of those they already spoken for At least the deposits are there So at that point if they want to tease a second game they not necessarily losing sales unless you got people to back out of their deposits Yeah, but you've got people that are trying to get a ditch on their deposits already, though. Yeah, true. So how does that really play into it? But again, it goes back into revealing a game and just not having it out the door. It's unfortunate because at TPF last year is where we saw Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle revealed. So we're a full year. Now they are going out. They're shipping. And I think originally Chuck at Spooky Pinball said that they would fill all the orders in 18 months. And as far as I know, they're still there. So kudos to them for staying on schedule. It's just I think there are so many more options out there for people right now that you do have some people that are second guessing their original preorder and maybe because they want something else. And it's like we all are kind of attracted to the to the blinking light in front of us or the grass is always greener. You want the newest, freshest stuff. So these pins that have been announced six months ago, a year ago, they're not the new cool thing that you're going to have somebody come over in your basement that was just released. So it'll be interesting to see how that pans out. and uh yeah so we we will not see any scott denise's second game at tpf is is that what you're thinking yeah yeah but it'll be nice because scott's not up for anything so he can actually hang out and enjoy the show this year scott's not up what do you mean oh for uh twippies yeah yeah so yeah scott's uh total nuclear annihilation pin was eligible for twippy awards in uh 28 or 2017 yeah and we are doing the 2018 awards coming up tpf the next company i wanted to touch base on, Chicago Gaming Company. Now, we all know that Monster Bash is out. Now, Monster Bash was revealed in October, and that was at Pinball Expo. That was the first time that we saw it, and it was a last-minute decision to do that. They were still waiting on something to make sure that that was going to go smoothly. Here we are six months down the road. The games are shipping. Rumor on the street is that they've – all right, two rumors that I've heard, and I can't speak to how accurate either of these are. um the first is that cactus canyon will be coming up next that's going to be their next um remake okay are you went on a cactus canyon okay that's a great that's a great question if the cactus canyon had the cactus canyon complete code because i've seen that stream then actually i saw that demonstrated on straight down the middle of pinball show with zach many and greg bone and they did an excellent review of that that review of that game made me want to play a cactus canyon with the with the cactus canyon complete code yes because it brought in additional elements that i thought made that pinball machine just seems so fun whether or not the remake of um cactus canyon will have the complete code or completed code uh you know remains to be seen yeah what about you If it had the Cactus Canyon Complete code, which is currently on the originals, that is an upgrade, I would absolutely be interested. You know what? Especially if you could get one of those in just the standard edition for the $6,000 or $6,500, I think that would be a bargain to play that game for that. Yeah, so the originals should decline in price after the remakes come out. Unless that complete code differentiates enough between the remakes and the originals and warrants a higher price. Who knows? But the second rumor I'm hearing is that they have a – and I know that this was in the works. That they – how do I want to say this? The goal was to always have like their own title come out. And I didn't know if that was going to be a licensed pin or if that was going to be an original theme. But that was something that was always discussed. I've heard that they do have an original theme that they've either decided on or that is in the works or maybe even done.
    19:10
    I think Cactus Canyon and this original theme, it's one or the other at this point. There's no way they have both done. I mean, that would be amazing. But do you think that we see any teasers or any reveals of either Cactus Canyon or an original theme pin over at Texas Pinball Festival this year? I don't think so. But if that was the case, if they had both done, I would love to see one of them. But I don't see that happening because you've still got Monster Bashes flowing out the door. Why would you screw that up? Right. You've got the Monster Bashes being sold, and I don't know exactly where they are at with numbers. I don't know if their LEs have all sold out. For some reason, I thought the LEs were all spoken for.
    19:50
    I don't know where they put those numbers. It seems like they cycled their line. They've got the manufacturing down where they can throw Medieval Madness back on if they need to, and we'll see what's next. But yeah, so I agree with you. I think we see Monster Bash and that's it from Chicago Gaming Company at Texas Pinball Festival. Let's go to Deep Root. This was my biggest disappointment of TPF was that Deep Root and Robert Mueller essentially said, for whatever reason, we are not bringing anything to TPF this year. We're going to release on our own schedule. And what we had prior, what we had thought was going to work prior is no longer going to work within that timeframe. So they've made, I guess, a big financial donation to TPF for the tournament and whatnot. So they're supporting the show, but they're not going to bring anything. Now, do you think that that is going to stay true where Deep Root, this pinball show, is in their home state? It seems to me that Robert is excited and he's aggressive. Would it surprise you if he showed up with something that maybe nobody expected? Is there a shock and awe that's going to come out with Deep Root where they're not going to have the five days, but they're going to be like, hey, by the way, here's a flippable magic girl that we just kind of brought to the show to show you guys some of our innovation. Is that something that you could see happening? I would love to see it. I don't know if it's going to happen. I mean, it would be kind of a great surprise. I would love to see that, too. And if you think of the machines that they were supposedly working on, I think the five titles were Alice in Wonderland, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, Fire and Brimstone, uh magic girl and then there was like a dennis nordman original theme so there were five pins that they were working on is it possible that something's close enough to even put on display so people you know and you don't want to get into the box of blinking light syndrome especially with some of the employees that work there right yeah dude i mean here's the thing though you know i mean i think they did it right if they weren't going to be ready then why bring something that's half you know halfway done say yeah half ass right well it's exactly what i was thinking I was trying to be a little PC. We're being a little, what am I trying to say here? We're being a little bit direct today. Yeah, yeah, filter free. So I think it's better for them that they are not bringing anything than show up half-assed and have games that they're going to say, oh, we're going to ship them in six months, and then turns into a year, year and a half, and go through that whole cycle. I think it was better for them to take it on the chin and push their date than screw around and be in a position like everybody else has been. And that said, it doesn't make them look good per se when they said March, and now they're pushing it. But better that than send out crap or stuff with problems. Right. And that's where I wish that I could see something from Deep Root, but I'm not expecting to see anything from Deep Root. And to echo your sentiments on that, I do agree that if they're not ready, they're not ready. Do what you guys need to do. Release properly, right? Yep. But I'm not going to lie. that was my biggest disappointment in regards to something I was really looking forward to with our first TPF. So that's kind of sums up the manufacturers. Obviously you're going to have homebrew pins that are going to be, you know, bringing things. I'm really looking forward to seeing what's out there with the homebrew scene. I want to get more and more involved with that because I think as we move towards the future, some of these homebrews are going to be like, you know, rookies in AA and AAA that are going to be called up to the bigs, maybe sooner than later. So that really appeals to me. Jerry with Multimorphic, I'm looking forward to stopping in his booth and see what's going on with that whole platform. Lexi Lightspeed was the last game that I played, and I did enjoy it very, very much. It was surprising as to how the game has evolved. And I want to see what's going on with, like, Cosmic Kart Racing and that sort of thing. And then, obviously, like, the Twippies, which will be happening on that Saturday night. Let me ask you, is there anything that you're looking forward to? What awards are you looking forward to for the Twippies? Have you thought about that? Game of the Year? that's playing show.
    23:44
    They're all best sound package. Those are kind of the big three that I'm kind of really curious to see.
    23:51
    Do you have any thoughts on what you think the game of the year is going to be, or do you want to keep that to yourself for now? I'd rather keep it to myself. Sure, that's fine.
    23:58
    Selfishly, I hope that Jerry Thompson gets some accolades at this, because other than him being a really great guy, I really appreciate what he's done with sound. At Stern, it's really made a huge impact on me on the enjoyability factor of the games that I've been playing. I'll tell you what, I would like to see Beatles win for sound. Yeah. Okay. You know, especially after hearing what he did for that, you know, dumbing down some of the sound quality so it all sounded seamless and timeless and from the same time era. Yeah. It might not be the most popular, but I would like to see that one. See, and Zombie Yeti had a pretty huge year with pinball, but you could see a Chris Franchi sneak in there and grab something maybe with Beatles with artwork and stuff too. You just don't know. No. We will see. Again, we are presenting an award at the Twippies, and we're less than three weeks away, and we're not sure what we are presenting. So hopefully, maybe we're going to be ushers. That could be the other side. Yeah. Kind of show people to their seats. Are you going to dress up for the Twippies? Are you going to do it all out? You know, I got the tuxedo t-shirt, so I think I'm going to rock that out. Yeah, you should do that. You know, party in the front. Hold a tuxedo cat with a tuxedo t-shirt? Exactly, exactly.
    25:10
    We'll see. That'll be the surprise for the show for us. Now, we are bringing something to Texas Pinball Festival, which I think is going to be fun and interesting. And that is, you know what that is? Some thing or some one. Some one, right, some one. So for those of you that have listened to the show, our friend Steve Beattie has been on our pinball adventures for a long time. But Expo, he gained a little bit of notoriety and fame with eating the bucket of warm chicken that was brought to Expo by Greg Bones' brother. The aged chicken. It was aged eight hours. We believe that was from Evansville, Indiana area that made its way to Expo, and Steve kind of consumed that. Now, Steve is a close friend of ours, and we're looking forward to having him. So what we're going to do, we're going to invite him in on the show that we're going to broadcast right prior to leaving the TPF. And then when we get back, we're going to do a recap. So for those of you that don't know Steve, super nice guy, energetic. The guy loves to buy and sell pinball. He loves to collect pinball. He loves to have a good time. He doesn't shy away from a couple drinks, which I can appreciate. He is the party. Right. So he is absolutely the party. So he's going to be fun. So we'll see what happens. So of all those pins that we mentioned that we may or may not see at TPF, are any of these a grail game for you or a potential keeper game for you? because what I want to talk about are what a grail game is and what a keeper game is for each of us. Okay, so I would have to say that Willy Wonka would be a keeper. So I guess my definition as a grail pin is a game that you've sought after for a long time, and now that you have it, despite play or whatever debacles might be wrong with it, you're going to keep it, period. Okay. A keeper is one that you sought after, you got, And depending on what you could get for it, it could potentially be for sale. So the grail is a keeper, but the keeper could go. Exactly. Okay. So for me, like a grail would be like everything all-encompassing in one pinball machine would be like a grail pin for me, like something that I don't know will ever be created just because I'm a picky bastard with most everything with pinball, whereas a keeper for me might not meet all my requirements but would be uh would keep me occupied enough where i would feel bad letting it go and in all honesty i don't i don't think there is such thing as a keeper for me because deadpool yeah i'm loving deadpool man but i honestly do you really think deadpool will be here like five years from now uh years no right so it's not a keeper uh yeah but let's go by your timeline and it's not a grail let's go by your timeline I know, dude, anything that anything that lasts a quarter in this basement has lasted a lifetime. Right. It's successful. But again, like the definition of a keeper would literally mean that there's no intent of ever leaving. And you just can't see a situation where it would leave. Yeah. But what would be a grail pin for you? An example of our grail theme? OK, well, T2 is a grail pin that's, you know, never going to leave my possession per se, not physically, but, you know, it's on loan to a friend. But I'll never sell that game. So that's a keeper and a grail. I love the movie and I love the game itself. So I guess, yeah, you wouldn't just move a grail pin along. No. No, it'd have to stay. A grail pin is something that you get it, you played it, and despite what it is or its shortcomings, you're keeping it regardless. In my opinion. Okay. I think where I just differ is probably like a grail theme could come out for me and it wouldn't necessarily be a keeper if the manufacturer didn't nail it on all cylinders. But that's such a... It's an improbable thing to happen. For somebody to get the artwork right, the theme being a Grail theme, the sound package being awesome, the shots being incredible, it's a tall task. I totally get it. Dude, you would need... But it's there. Okay, let's examine this a little deeper, okay? Let's dig an inch, as Terry would say. So for you, a Grail pin would be a Chicago Cubs pinball machine.
    29:10
    I don't know. I don't think that would be a grail pin for me. Done by Jersey Jack. Nah. No? I don't think so. I mean, I'm a huge Cub fan.
    29:19
    A huge Cubs fan. But it's like, I don't think that would be a grail. I mean, I guess potentially it could be. But when I think of themes that I would want to see made, like Chicago Cubs doesn't jump to the top of the list. All right. But going back to you, like a grail pin for you was T2. Honestly, a lot of that I have in my collection already, though. So T2, Getaway, and Wizard of Oz are Grail pins that are never going anywhere unless I built another nicer one. Okay. Like Rowan, the jury's out on whether that's going to be a keeper.
    29:54
    It's going to be a keeper to get the plate, but that's about it. So Grail is like something that you've, in your opinion, something you've been searching for. You finally found it. You found your Grail. Yeah. So what about a Grail theme? Something that hasn't been done, or has every Grail theme for you already been done? Gone in 60. Gone in 60 Seconds. Okay, now this is where I'm kind of going with this. So Gone in 60 Seconds would be a Grail theme for you.
    30:17
    Yes. Gone in 60 or Fast and Furious. And I can tell you it would be a Jersey Jack production you know hopefully with like a Steve Ritchie designing it Not that Steve works for See now you talking about a grill Dude everything firing on all cylinders Lining this up, dude. All right. Okay. So it would definitely have to be gone in 60 or Fast and Furious. We'll say Fast and Furious. Gone in 60 is probably more desirable. Okay. Just because it's less cheese. So gone in 60, done by JJP, Steve Ritchie designing it because King of Flow. You're going to need that on Gone in 60 Seconds. Yeah. Coded by Dwight. Bring some of that magic from Getaway back. Okay.
    30:58
    Artwork by Franchi or – Zombie Yeti. Jerry Thompson on sound. Yeah, that's awesome, man. So Gone in 60 Seconds and Fast and Furious. Anything else that pops out as like a Grail theme for you? Because what I'm going to do, I'm going to tell you a couple of my Grail themes, and then I'm going to throw some ideas out there, and I just want to get your reaction to them. Because I think there's different categories. There's like motion picture Grails. There are music pin Grails. I mean, I even want to get into like, and we're not going to spend a ton of time on this, but even like cartoons that potentially could be Grail themes. Yep. And maybe the Grail theme's already been done, but it's just not a Grail pin because it didn't live up to expectations. For instance, if you're a big Bugs Bunny fan, you're probably not jumping out to get Bugs Bunny birthday party as a Grail pin for yourself, most likely, but I'm sure there is somebody out there that would dig it. As a music one, I'd have to say Journey, I think, would be a pretty kick-ass pin. Don't stop believing, brother. No. It could happen. No, because the wheel in the sky keeps on turning. Every time I think Journey, oh, my gosh. I think White Sox World Series, it just irks me a little bit as a Cubs fan. But that's okay. You're not diehard enough to want a Cubs pinball machine, so it's fine. No, I'm a diehard Cubs fan. I just don't know how that correlates to a pinball machine for me. Like, um, and the stress the Cubs have given me for my whole life, with the exception of a few years, I don't know that that would correlate well into a pinball machine either. Hey, um, okay. So dream themes for you. So, so yeah, grail, grail pins for me. And these are going to sound really strange, but again, I'm just thinking like of a theme that I think would be awesome in my basement or at my house or whatever. Like I would love to see a lost boys pin. And, and I think a part of that is, I think I love the soundtrack and I think the movie's cool. I would love to see Brandon Lee, the crow, killer soundtrack on that game. And I'm starting to realize not only artistically am I driven to some of these games that are in my collection, but I'm having a whole new appreciation for sound in games. Stranger Things is something that is an absolute grail pin for me, and I've got so many ideas for that pinball machine. That would be killer. Creep Show, I don't know if you've ever seen that. It's like a movie with short stories. It was based on a comic book. That would just, in my opinion, be such an awesome translation into a pinball machine with the story. So, I mean, those are just like four that are out there. For a music pin, and this is going to – nobody is going to really be down with this, I don't think, because it's not Journey. But Stone Temple Pilots would be a freaking grail pin for me. I'm such a big Stone Temple Pilot fan, more so in the Scott Weiland days. I had an opportunity to meet him a couple weeks before he passed on. and uh that was like a really uh impressionable moment for me and the whole 90s rock alternative genre it just is huge for me just growing up uh being in high school in the 90s and a lot of good memories living in the past with the uh with that whole grunge rock i think pearl jam would be another cool one too okay so we're let's get into this for a second i for music pins okay uh and here are a couple ideas that i had uh history of music a billboard uh top 100 top 100 pinball starting in the 50s and every single time you updated you went from the 50s you could put an update in it would start playing the 60s you could update to the 70s to the 80s and go all the way through and at some point uh you could kind of jukebox style your genre i think that would be super cool the problem obviously is going to be licensing you're not going to have all these songs under one record company but again fun to dream about that would be in in my opinion um a jukebox pin of all the billboard top 100 uh which would be fun uh and then again the 90s rock alternative the grunge area would be killer what about you would you be down with that oh yeah some pearl jamstone temple pilots nirvana uh that would be awesome yeah you know even in the 90s you've got your bare naked ladies you've got fastball um alice in chains yeah dude putting the blowfish dude one one song by them that uh uh i didn't think got as much recognition yeah mr ken and me yeah it was originally mr ken exactly it was right um but uh brian wilson by bare naked ladies yeah that's one of my favorite songs from them cool i think it'd be a great uh it would be fun you know and you never know right and movie pins dude you can pretty much say any john williams uh scored movie could be a pinball machine right right uh i wanted to finish up pink floyd i think would be another outstanding uh music pin which could lend itself to one of the most incredible Dwight shows or light shows that you've ever seen. Or can you imagine Scott Denise jumping on a light show for Pink Floyd? That would be killer. Motion pictures.
    35:39
    We talked about a few already. You're hearing rumors of like Jaws and James Bond and so many rumors right now. And those are heavy hitting license themes. But most of them don't call to me as a grail pin. Goonies? Yeah, Goonies would be a grail. I would love to see Goonies pin. The Goonies would be incredible. That would be really, really cool. You know, here, another grail pin. The only thing that I think would get better than T2 is a remake of T2.
    36:03
    Like T2, well, you've got T2, you've got a T3. Yeah, that was terrible. T2.0. Yeah. You just have it go in there. Maybe you should re-theme a T2 into a T2.0.
    36:15
    One day. With all that extra time we've got. It's not like you have a lot going on or anything. Nah, nothing. Right? This I thought was an interesting topic, Grail cartoon themes. Now, as kids, we grew up, I watched a lot of cartoons. Some of them I don't care to ever watch again just because, I mean, they're just dated. They don't hold up well. But let me throw a couple themes at you and just see what you – and some of these are going to be more current cartoons. You might not even know what they are. Yeah. But with kids now, I've got three kids. I've watched a lot of these things, and I've had appreciation. One, SpongeBob SquarePants. Nope. Not for you. I think there's some pretty witty humor in a SpongeBob. It's not a grail pin for me, but I think that it could potentially sell well. um what about looney tunes in general where you have bugs bunny and daffy duck and wiley coyote and sylvester and elmer fudd and just done all of them if it was done right absolutely the roadrunner roadrunner exactly i mean you would have a lot of content there yeah uh that could be pretty fun never get the license for it but what about like a tom and jerry yeah i i like it i just i don't know if i would grill pin something like that you could be tom or you could be Jerry to start the game. So you're either on the attack or on the defense. And at some point they were both on the attack. But it's not 27 characters, but it's two. It could be a fun pin. What about Gravity Falls? Are you familiar with Gravity Falls? Gravity Falls was a cartoon on Disney Channel that ran a long time, about a couple kids that go to summer camp in a town that has just a bunch of crazy things going on, a lot of Easter eggs, Just something that my son was watching for a long time that I eventually started getting into, and I just thought that would be a fun theme. Have you ever seen Phineas and Ferb? No. Another Disney cartoon, which I think would lend itself well to a fun cartoon-themed pin. What about some freaking He-Man on that list? Masters of the Universe could absolutely be unbelievable. I thank you. That would be a grail for me. I collected Masters of the Universe from the original He-Man and Mad at Arms and Castle Gray Skull Skeletor all the way up until they pretty much cut production I'm not talking about the second run of these games or these figures or the re-releases of the collector editions no no no original what about you did you ever play He-Man oh yeah dude we had Skeletor I forget the name of him what's your favorite do you have a favorite He-Man Skeletor my favorite was a version of Skeletor It was Terror Claw Skeletor, and he had these big claw hands that you could put on, and he would rock back and forth, and he would slash stuff up. It's funny because they just had like a toy show up here, and I found a couple used Terror Claw Skeletors. They were like $80. I didn't know if I liked it that much. Just a bit outside of that price range, huh? Yeah, right, right. And they weren't complete. If he was minting the box, I'm down with it, but I'm going to open it and play it. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, so that's a great idea. How about Scooby-Doo is something we've heard rumored. It doesn't call to me. You know what? It really doesn't either. And for whatever reason, like I always I remember watching a lot of Scooby-Doo and I thought it was it was always the same thing at the end. A mask got pulled off and you kind of revealed the the the villain criminal or the villain. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I would prefer Sherlock Holmes to Scooby-Doo, I think, as much as that might offend some people. Yeah, I would. I would look forward to that. What about Rick and Morty? No, you hear Rick and Morty. I have not ever seen an episode of Rick and Morty, but I know it's popular. We've had people reach out about Rick and Morty, but I can see that. How about this one? And you just saw like a kind of craze that swept the nation here within the last few years with cell phone apps. Do you know what I'm talking about? No. Does the word Pikachu like move? No. Pokemon. Pokemon, no. Could Pokemon be a good, Pokemon, Dragon Balls, that kind of stuff? Dude, I think, all right, so let's dig a little deeper on this one. So if you were to take a regular pinball cabinet, shorten it up by a foot in the front, make it like a Super Mario Gottlieb or a Safecracker size, and marketed it that way? Possibly. Okay. So like a little redemption game? Don't they call those zizzles? Is that what you need? No, you'd still need quarters to play it. Okay, okay. Like a safe cracker size? Yeah. Okay. All right, so you're not feeling the Pokemon. I'm not either. My daughter would love this next title would be My Little Pony.
    40:35
    And we'll just leave it at that. No comment on the My Little Pony. You've got a daughter. She's three. You know, she's not rocking out a little Twilight Sparkle. Dude, if we went not yet, but dude, if we went somewhere and she saw something like that and fell in love with it. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Jump on it. You know, it wouldn't be on for pinball night. Yeah. But, you know, what are you going to do? Right. This is kind of surprising. I don't know if this has ever been discussed, but I mean, like Mickey Mouse has doesn't have a pinball machine. It's kind of Disney. I mean, it's the very essence of like classic cartoon. You could do like the evolution from was that Steamboat Willie or whatever, like all the way to current Fantasia that potentially could have something that Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. Yeah, well, you know, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse could be implemented in there as well. So, yeah, there was another cartoon I remember watching when I was little. It was like it was the first probably Japanese anime cartoon I'd ever seen. It might be the only one because I'm not really in the Japanese anime. if anybody remembers seeing this and i'm just going to take 30 seconds please message me because it was like one of the most disturbing things i'd ever seen in my entire life and for some reason like we had this cable box it was called like spectrum it was like literally you press the button and whatever's on cable that was that yeah i think i watched grease 2 like 907 times um and this is before you had like on tv and before like cinemax and hbo it was just like Boom. Cable was one button. And there was this Japanese anime cartoon. It was called The Galaxy Express 999. And does this ring any bells to you? Not even the slightest. This kid's, like, if I'm remembering it correctly, like this kid's parents get murdered, right? So his whole goal is he's going to jump on this intergalactic train that's going to take him to this planet where he can get a machine body so that he can go out and conquer the evil that killed his parents. It was just the whacked out thing, and I've seen it like so many times as a youth, and I think I suppressed some of the memories. But, I mean, there's scenes where like he's walking over like a frozen pond, and he looks down, and there are just bodies frozen looking up. It was like a graveyard. Just creepy, creepy stuff. But ironically, like that would almost appeal to me as a pinball machine. Like the RoboCop of Bruce Wayne. Right. Okay. All right. Just kind of that creepy, creepy cool factor would be interesting. But I don't know. grail themes and keepers uh i don't think there's a keeper for me i i just don't know that uh that there's anything that i could be confident that they would would stand the test of time and not ever ever leave i think where we need at least for myself i need to expand my my uh my play playing area you know the way i have everything set up now i'm at four machines i can never sit on four machines forever i i'm one of those guys that i i'm always looking to see what else is out there i'm always looking to see what's coming up what's going to be released that's kind of the fun about doing the podcast is talking and speculating every so often getting some information that we normally just sit on unless we get the go ahead go ahead to share it so grail pins keeper pins are they all in the same no not for me uh but then again i don't know that anything's a keeper yeah you know what anything's got a price right you're right man anything has a price are you ready to play a little drain it or save it absolutely it's time for this week's edition of drain it or save it drain it or save it is brought to you by learn mods.com offering quality mods and play field lighting for your pinball machine now special wind late pinball podcast listeners can receive a 10 off your order with coupon code swl10 at checkout swl10 at checkout L-E-R-M-O-D-S Lermods.com Visit them today. All right, man. So the first topic we have today, for those of you who drain it or save it, we discuss a topic. We drain it if we don't like it. We save it if we think it's interesting and we agree. So you ready? Yep. All right. The first item is removing glass from your pinball machine to discover new modes that you can't get to because of your lack of play.
    44:41
    Lack of skill or lack of play time. Right, right. So we'll start with you, Bill. Taking the glass off. publicly i drain it privately i'd probably save it just because there's games that you know wizard of oz i'll never see the end of it unless i did that i'm glad you brought that up so can you see yourself taking the glass off and and hitting targets and uh listen progressing through the game if there was you know you steve and the rest of the pinball crew there and we had a couple of drinks and we were pissed off because we're playing a bit poorly yeah i could almost see doing it so you're saving it yeah as much i don't want to i'm draining it all right and i've been in this position before, and I always think, because you know how I buy stuff back, right? I buy stuff second time, third time around. If I haven't completed anything, I think if I took the glass off and I knocked through all the modes, it would not want me to ever own that pinball machine again because I would have thought I've accomplished everything. Scared Stiff is a great example of this. The reason I bought it a couple times was not only because I love the game but I never got to Spider Multiball where you complete all of the lights on the back glass I never did that And that like the ultimate wizard mode for that game And to this day, after owning a couple of those, I've been tempted to take that glass off and see what happens during Spider Multiball, and I never, ever, ever did. But you know what? If I get the pinball machine again, that's something that I can go for. So I'm going to drain that one. That said, I also have never done it, though. Okay. Yeah, but that's okay. Hey, you always remember your first. This is true. So that's fine. How about this? Using stock balls that come with your new in-box pinball machine, drain it or save it? Drain that. I'm going to put the nicer stuff in.
    46:20
    All right. Well, yeah, I guess what can you really say? I'm going to drain this as well. I actually, on my last new in-box, the balls that came with Deadpool, not good, man. I don't know if it's just because they were older and they jingled around for a little while, but they were pretty scuffed up. So if you have the means, I highly recommend replacing those balls. At least check them out before you throw them in your game. I think there'd be nothing more disappointed than to kind of, you know, scratch up that play field or wear it out prematurely based on balls that came with your game. Now, that being said, I've gotten balls that came with new in-box games from every manufacturer that were, it seems fine, and I used them. But in general now, I think I'm draining using those stock balls. What about flasher intensity that can blind the player during play? That's going to be our third topic. Absolutely. Save it. Save it? You like it? I do. Now, I know it's not popular, but you throw the Penn Stadiums on there, and then suddenly it's not as ridiculous.
    47:14
    You know, like Adam's family, if you have the LED flashers on it, you can, you know, a lot of people complain because you can't see. Right. You know, I know that's been a source of contention with the Adams family that's at my house. It's a buddy of mine's. Yep. I like it. I'm used to playing it. You know, other people hate it. So you're going to save blinding flashers. Blinding flashers. Add to the challenge. All right. I'm going to drain blinding flashers, and I'll tell you why. I know that it's the intent of the programmer, or for some of the programmers to have that flasher intentionally blind you, or at least shock and awe you where you're not going to be able to track the ball as well.
    47:50
    I hate that. I can't stand it. There are times where I'll get a game where somebody modded it, and they LED the flashers, and that thing hits and I feel like I'm in Men in Black. Like I just lost my memory. Dude, I love that. I can't stand it. I totally lose the ball. I've got something with my vision where like I'll get like after effects of that flash. We'll just sit there like for the remainder of my game. I cannot stand it. So like Caesar multiball? Yeah, I think there's Caesar multiball, right? I think there should be a setting to and maybe there are in some of these new pins just turning the flash or power down where it's not like ridiculously blinding. It just feels like an unfair advantage to the pinball machine. You might as well come up to me and just cover my eyes with your hands for a few seconds. And then after I recover from that, just, like, pop me in the face with a bunch of things. And that idea for a mod is brought to you by Ken Cromwell. Yeah, right? Whatever. All right, so to sum up Drain It or Save It this week, removing the glass to discover mods. You saved it. I drained it. Secondly, we had using the stock balls and new in-box pinball machines that come in that coin box. We're both kind of draining that, right? And then finally, flasher intensity that blinds the player. You like that. You're going to save it. Yep. And I'm going to drain it. Man, it's so controversial today between the two of us. I like it. Yeah. Normally, we get like two out of three we both have the similar vote on. Yeah. So we're starting to disagree a little bit more. You know, that's after 41 episodes, Bill. We're not on the same page anymore, buddy. Hey, hey. You know, so it goes. Start looking for a new guest host right now, bud. I am out. Guest host? I thought I was the guest host. No, you're not the guest host. Okay. This is, yeah, no, I'm the guest host. No. Let's talk a little bit about the t-shirt giveaway. And real quick, we had asked anybody that had seen the picture of our t-shirt art or bought a t-shirt, there's an Easter egg that's hiding in plain sight on that shirt. So we asked a bunch of people or anybody that saw it, go ahead and let us know what you think the Easter egg is. and for all the correct entries, we will put them in a hat and then we will go ahead and we'll pick the winner on the show and we're going to send you a shirt. And if you own a shirt already, guess what? You're going to have two shirts. Um, first of all, I was, I was surprised by the amount of people that, uh, knew the Easter egg. Um, and we're going to reveal that in a second. Uh, secondly, I was, I was just pleasantly surprised about the amount of people that participated in this. There were a lot of, um, wrong answers, but not any bad answers. Like there were even some things where i was like huh yeah that is kind of like an easter egg i guess but you know it wasn't what we were looking for yeah which is totally cool that people you know thought that deep into some of this stuff that we had on there right so the easter egg is within the shirt we've got the pinball machine yep and we've got the tiki head and in the teeth of the tiki head, you have like EM style reel scoring and the score shows 0476. Now some of the answers that we had now, that is the Easter egg. It's the 0476 that's in the tiki head in the t-shirt.
    50:51
    We had people guessing that it was either of our birthdays. We had people guessing that it was like area codes, zip codes, part of our phone number. We had people that were guessing, just all over the map on this stuff. I had people that came back and guessed again and guessed again and guessed again. The true answer to that was that we wanted to pay homage to somebody that we think is very important and prominent in pinball, and it's not us, so it's not our birthday. No.
    51:18
    But the date, April of 1976, is significant because what happened on April 1st of 1976 was something that allowed pinball to be what it is today, potentially, and that was Roger Sharp's shot that saved pinball. Yep. And by making that shot and showing that pinball was a game of skill and not a random game for gambling, this went into litigation and a legal decision that had happened the following month, which lifted the ban on pinball. Yep. And we actually got to hear this story firsthand from Roger Sharp about a month ago, a month and a half ago, and we asked to hear the story from him firsthand, And we had dinner with them, and it was just inspiring. You know, they had two machines in there. And I won't go into the whole story, but, you know, we did our research and thought that, you know, that shot was made in May of 76. But it turned out we were wrong, and we actually showed them the T-shirt, you know, saying, hey, we want to pay homage to you. Yeah, like the sketch of the original rendering, right? Yeah, and we're like, does that number, you know, does 0576 ring a bell? And he's like, not really. I mean, 04 of 76 would have rang more of a bell. and we were like, oh, how about shiitake? This is a problem. Right, right, right. It was a slip. It was a mishap. We were so happy that we ran that by them because having celebrated the legalization of bringing pinball back in would have been cool. But I really think that commemorating that April 1, 1976 shot that saved pinball by Roger Sharp on our shirts, it's a great conversation starter. It's an Easter egg implemented within the shirt, and a pinball purist will understand what it is. And if you're not a pinball purist, now you kind of know what happened April 1st, 1976. And so that's the Easter egg. So let's do this. Bill, you want to draw the winner? Sure. Let's do it. All right here. So do me a favor and reach into this. All right. And let me know what you got.
    53:16
    All right. Hold on here. All right. Ryan Holman. All right. That's awesome. So, Ryan, congratulations on winning a special win lit. Thank you for honoring. Pinball podcast T-shirt. Everybody, thank you for your submissions, and hopefully we can do another contest, and better luck to everyone else, too, that entered. Yeah, do me a favor, Ryan. Reach out to us. Send us a private message or an email, and let us get your address, and let us know the size, and we'll get that shirt out to you tomorrow pretty quick. Yeah. For anybody that wants to grab a shirt for TPF, if you're going to TPF, let us know and what we'll do is we will take your order for the shirt but we'll take the shipping off and we'll just bring the shirt down to tpf it gives us an opportunity to kind of shake your hand and thank you for listening to the show lets you save on shipping and it guarantees you have that shirt at the show so we'll do uh we'll do 25 for those we don't have to ship those out um so 25 bucks if you want to go ahead and let us know what your size is we'll bring that down to TPF. And for those of you that are in Australia, we have our buddy, uh, Rod and Osborne, who is well known in Australia. He said that he would be happy to take any t-shirt orders that we brought down to TPF, bring them back to, uh, Aussie land and ship those within Australia. So that's huge. Uh, a great way to be able to save on some shipping there. Um, but enough of the shirts, man. Congratulations, Ryan. Yep. Congratulations. Enjoy the shirt. Yeah. And thanks to everybody that's been supporting the show with those shirts. It's awesome. Bill, you got a couple minutes here to kind of let us know what's going on with Whirlwind. Now, we had a lot of people that they love the cabinet restoration process, and every single week multiple people email the show, and they want to know what's going on with Whirlwind. So if you can give us an update, that would be awesome. Yeah, so this week end we started working on more of populating the play field, the underside with all the powder-coated mechs, rebuilt the flipper mechs and the powder-coated, then worked saturday just cleaning up then yesterday um on sunday i spent six hours well spent two hours getting the game ready to fire up for the first time was real excited got my brand new display in from x-pin what color did you get on the display i got white that's awesome so it's not blue it's not orange it's not blue no it's white it's white i love that you know to go with the white topper and i just thought it would look super clean loved it on tna so i was like yeah i loved it on tna too oh that's cool man yeah all right very nice so got this display you know my daughter's coming down she's like grabbing the box i'm freaking out on her don't touch this you know because it was not cheap right um of course get it all wired up change the connectors that i need to change go to fire it up nothing so right now i'm at a loss of uh five volts so i spent uh four hours yesterday checking the board checking the power supply checking the the other boards all those were fine check the transformer check for voltage what what is it going to be i don't know i mean this stuff was working prior so it's got to be just something small right that you're missing it's got to be i think it's in between the power supply board to the cpu j17 connector so that's where i'm at now so we'll see um but yeah that was awfully disheartening i was so pissed yesterday. Yeah, you got all your new toys, get ready to fire them up, and you forgot the batteries. Yeah, yeah. Dude, the flipper buttons were lighting up blue, the coin door was lighting up, and I'm just like, come on! But yeah, I mean, we'll, well, will we update and put some pictures online? Yeah, let's get some pictures online here in the next week or two. Or next week or two. Let's get pictures online tomorrow, or the next day. This week, we'll get the pictures up. Yeah. So it's coming along, and we'll have to update the pictures too with the play field getting populated because that looks pretty cool yeah that looks awesome man well good good so i'm sure you'll get it figured out and i'm sure it's just a small oversight it always seems to be if not if anyone would like a discounted whirlwind that doesn't quite power up but it's very pretty yeah give it you know let us know at special inlet gmail oh man that was fast already sold it yeah sold the lines are lighting up let's take caller number three yeah oh just the frustration yesterday was uh you know just because i was just so pumped ready to go ready to see the fan turn on have you been like thinking about it like ever since like you're driving in the car and white display and then the fan turning on for the first time because it's a brand new fan blade brand new fan motor brand new topper you know i'm like i'm ready to see the the white display you know turn the fan up i'm picturing clark w griswold slamming the lights together the the outlet trying to get them to turn on oh that's exactly oh and then you know what's going to happen is you're going to go upstairs your wife's going to come downstairs flick the switch the thing's going to fire up she's going to be like bill come down here bill you're not going to believe this and you're going to go downstairs and the light's going to flick off and it's it's national lampoon's christmas vacation well and i was telling you the story earlier and ken's like uh dude did you make sure it was actually plugged in i'm like yeah dude i got shocked to the 110 volts yesterday so yeah i know it was plugged in yeah i thought it was just a haircut no no no you got a little shock it's a little crispy on the outside yeah i've had that happen yeah so there's nothing more shocking than uh getting some voltage going through the body yeah when you grab the stainless side rail and you put your finger on the the live side of the wire because you're testing voltage i've had machines that weren't properly grounded and if like if you touch the lockdown bar in one and then the lockdown bar and the other you'd have current going through you i've had that happen to me yeah whereas it's like whoa this is kind of this is interesting it doesn't hurt that a mod is there it's like putting your battery or your tongue in a nine volt battery where it's like, you know, that it shouldn't be feeling like that, but it's not painful enough to where you, you need to pull it off right away. Right. Well, I, I, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Now full disclosure, I haven't had nine volt batteries in my mouth and a long time, but I do remember that happening at one point. And we are not advocating anyone to try this at home. So please don't, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Please, please do not. Don't put batteries in your mouth. Yeah. That's not good. That was a lesson of what not to do. It's one to grow on. Yeah. Right. I'm looking forward to this. So the Stern Pro Circuit Tour Championship is coming to Chicago, and it's taking place Saturday.
    59:30
    So we're actually going to go down there, and it's to interview Ed Robertson of Bare Naked Ladies. We're still trying to figure out an exact time and venue, but it's going to be in that area. So that'll be kind of fun. And we're going to bring Ed in to talk a little pinball. And that will most likely, unless it doesn't work out, will be our episode number 42, a special one with Pinball Podcast. So that'll be fun. I've always wanted to talk to Ed. He's one of those guys that, again, as a fan of his work in general with Bare Naked Ladies, and then on top of it for him being like so enthusiastic and an ambassador of pinball, I know he's going to be doing a live performance at the Stern Pro Circuit Championship. And then, of course, you can place your wagers and gamble on the Pro Circuit there. So jump online and get your offshore bets in. I know exactly who I'm going to go ahead and grab. I'm not going to disclose that. I don't want to put added pressure on the individual. No, that would be bad. But that will be fun. Are you making sure that they've got gloves on all week so they don't get paper cuts? I've already made necessary steps. All right, perfect. I'm already from the background completing the training program up until the end. So it's good. We're good. Nice. But I think that's going to be episode number 41 of the Special Inlet Pinball Podcast, Bill. All right. So I guess everyone have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day to play some pinball. So long, everybody.