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Episode 109 IAN IS BACK...FOR 1 EPISODE

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Nov 27, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Scott Ian returns to discuss MGC impressions and critiques recent pinball releases from Spooky, American, and Haggis.

Summary

Scott Ian returns as a guest on Poor Man's Pinball Podcast (Episode 109) to discuss his impressions from the MGC convention. The hosts analyze several manufacturers' recent releases, including critical assessments of Spooky Pinball's Halloween and Ultraman games, positive notes on Haggis Pinball's transparency, and American Pinball's porting of Valhalla from Riot Pinball. The episode features casual, profanity-laden banter with cigars and bourbon while covering manufacturer updates and game design critiques.

Key Claims

  • MGC showed a major shift in arcade vs pinball representation compared to previous years, with pinball machines outnumbering arcade games at approximately a 3:1 ratio

    high confidence · Scott Ian and Drew discussing MGC vendor floor observations; Drew notes this represents a flip from prior years where arcade machines dominated

  • Spooky Pinball's Halloween game is disappointing and feels more homebrew than their previous releases, with poor shot visibility and weak artwork

    high confidence · Scott Ian's direct critique of Halloween at MGC; detailed discussion of layout and aesthetic concerns

  • Spooky Pinball hired additional programmers recently

    medium confidence · Drew mentions this as recent news; Scott Ian states 'they just announced that recently'

  • Haggis Pinball released transparent YouTube videos about learning as they scale production, which generated mixed community reactions

    high confidence · Scott Ian describes Haggis Pinball's transparency and the divided response; notes videos showed no warehouse full of workers

  • American Pinball successfully ported Valhalla from Riot Pinball, with Josh Kugler praising Riot's finished product quality

    high confidence · Scott Ian states he will interview Josh Kugler about the porting process and quotes Kugler on Riot's quality

  • Spooky Pinball's non-refundable deposit model benefits the company's cash flow but may harm consumer trust if games disappoint

    high confidence · Detailed discussion by Scott Ian and Drew about deposits, secondary market effects, and consumer hesitation

  • Rick and Morty's rapid sell-out and subsequent cancellations have set high expectations for Spooky's next release

    medium confidence · Scott Ian discusses Rick and Morty hype as precedent for future sales pressure

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm a hard worker, I'm a middle class all day long and I'm proud of it”

    Scott Ian @ early in episode — Reflects self-deprecating humor and working-class identity; context is missing MGC and Pinball Expo due to work constraints

  • “He's been transparent, so you know he's learning. Like that was common sense he didn't even have to say it to be honest”

    Drew @ Haggis Pinball discussion — Defends Haggis Pinball against critics over transparency about scaling production challenges

  • “I felt, was supposed to be instrumental in catapulting their brand, their Spooky Pinball brand, to the next level now. and they didn't capitalize on it.”

    Scott Ian @ Spooky Pinball critique section — Core criticism: Halloween failed to build on Rick and Morty momentum; represents missed opportunity

  • “It felt more homebrew than their last few games”

    Scott Ian @ Halloween game critique — Summary judgment of Halloween; suggests step down in production quality and polish

  • “You never know where the ball is coming from. It's a very hard game to understand.”

    Scott Ian @ Layout discussion — Specific mechanical complaint: poor shot visibility and flow affecting gameplay clarity

  • “Because those are essentially limited The Games, right? because if you you know you can buy a Godzilla Premium Edition you'll be able to buy a Godzilla Premium Edition for the next two years”

    Drew @ Spooky's business model discussion — Analysis of how low production volumes (1000-1500 units) function as effective limited editions in market

Entities

Scott Ian HabermanpersonDrewpersonJosh KuglerpersonGlenn WechterpersonHaggis PinballpersonCharliepersonBugpersonCary Hardyperson

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community perception of Spooky Pinball's recent games cooling after strong Rick and Morty performance; Halloween disappoints despite high expectations

    high · Scott Ian's detailed critique of Halloween as 'disappointing' and 'homebrew-feeling' compared to prior Spooky releases; discussion of canceled deposits and hesitant re-sales

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky Pinball's production volumes (1000-1500 units) functioning as effective limited editions; non-refundable deposit model benefits cash flow but may harm future sales if games disappoint

    high · Drew's analysis: 'they're going to be in a really good position... those are essentially limited The Games'; discussion of cancellation patterns and secondary market impacts

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Haggis Pinball releasing transparency videos about production scaling and learning-as-you-go approach; community divided on messaging

    high · Scott Ian: 'he released some videos recently... very transparent videos. And some people said, Jon Hey, we love your transparency. And other people said, you really shouldn't be that transparent'

  • ?

    event_signal: MGC showing significant shift in arcade vs pinball representation with pinball now dominating at approximately 3:1 ratio vs arcade games

    high · Scott Ian and Drew noting 'three to one ratio'; Drew: 'I've noticed that and I didn't even think about that until you just said it but that's kind of what's rolling around in my noggin is maybe that's what's going on'

  • ?

    product_concern: Spooky Pinball's Halloween game criticized for poor shot visibility, unclear ball flow, weak artwork, and homemade feel despite expensive price point

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.226

0:00
Oh yeah, it's time. You've waited a week or more, and now it's finally here. The time has come for the sloppiest show on the internet. This week's episode of Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Starring Drew and Ian. That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over.
0:39
I'm gonna need someone to help me. I'm gonna need somebody's help. Son of a bitch, give me a drink. One more night, but it can't be me. I'm a bitch And I drink and breathe I'm on a drink by the way Hey guys, this is Drew here. We got episode 109. I have a real, real special treat for you today. I've been waiting for this for... I would say a couple of months. I don't know how long it is. I don't have my calendar out, but who gives a shit? I have been waiting for this for quite some time. I'm not going to keep teasing it, and maybe I'll tease you a little bit longer. But in front of me, in studio, I am sitting across from none other than Ian Haberman. Hey, what up, dickholes? Is that the wrong body part? No, you got it right. It can be a dickhole, it can be a butthole. You know what? Dickhole, butthole. It's all good, baby. I'm back, baby. If there was a crowd here, they would be roaring right now. Oh, it's Ian. like i think what happened where did he go i said this on the last city of a mental breakdown that question has been asked more than once uh well more than usual yes i have been multiple breakdowns but um and the last couple episodes i been hearing that the feedback has been hey drew that was great but where the fuck is he in and i'm like fantastic i gotta be honest man i haven't been listening you know why because i i listened to that dr john episode or not dr john who'd you have on um oh god damn it uh oh ian and barbara no not that one oh your first one before i left or after i left shit who did i have on oh doc finley doc finley the other doctor see that's what threw me off yeah the other doc you had another sponsor of the show i have a strange feeling like he's just i have a suspicion he's not a real doctor man he's a doctor of love and pinball my love doctor uh no no because you guys were giving me shit and i couldn't defend myself i was listening to it and i was like that's not what i said and then you know it got into it and i was like all right you know what i'm gonna pull over my car take a breath you can use cucumber slices in hendrix gin not all gin gin and tonics just in general are great with a lime. But Hendrix is infused, motherfuckers, with cucumbers. Oh, that's right. We were making fun of gin and tonics with cucumbers because he drank gin and tonics but he didn't do the cucumbers, I think. He just thought I was weird. You are. That's cool. Hendrix is meant for the cucumbers. It says on the bottle. You know what? The bottle has been held in for so long. It has been. But what are you drinking today, buddy? Today is Jack Daniel's Tennessee Honey. How about yourself, man? Ooh, I am drinking some Basil Hayden's Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. I think it's pronounced Basel.
Steve Johnperson
Spooky Pinballcompany
American Pinballcompany
Haggis Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Riot Pinballcompany
MGCevent
Pinball Expoevent
Halloweengame
Ultramangame
Rick and Mortygame
Valhallagame
Fathomgame
Kelpsgame
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
Zach Sharpeperson

high · Scott Ian: 'I did not like that game... You never know where the ball is coming from... I thought it was disappointing'; detailed critique of layout and aesthetics

  • ?

    design_innovation: American Pinball successfully porting Valhalla from Riot Pinball's P3 system; Riot's original design praised as high-quality finished product

    high · Scott Ian: 'Josh Kugler... was like, that's about as finished of a product as you could have seen'; discussion of cross-manufacturer porting feasibility

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Spooky Pinball recently hired additional programmers to address code/programming quality issues

    medium · Drew: 'they just hired some more programmers... recently'; Scott Ian confirms recent announcement

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinball Expo 2024 marked strong community turnout and tribal engagement; represented major gathering comparable to MGC but with different focus

    medium · Scott Ian regrets missing Expo: 'that looked like it was so much fun and i missed out big time'; Glenn Wechter's high engagement noted

  • ?

    community_signal: Mixed community response to Haggis Pinball's transparency about learning-as-you-go production; some criticism that transparency signals lack of expertise

    high · Scott Ian: 'other people said, you really shouldn't be that transparent because now you're making it seem like you don't know what you're doing'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky Pinball's production volumes (1000-1500 units) creating effective scarcity that mimics limited edition model; strategy differs from mass manufacturers like Stern

    high · Drew's strategic analysis of Spooky's position and future releases; comparison to Godzilla (Stern) which remains in continuous production

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Debate over whether Spooky Pinball needs designer talent acquisition vs additional programmers; hosts suggest layout/design methodology is core issue

    medium · Scott Ian: 'Maybe instead of programmers, they needed to get some real designers in there'; discussion of Dennis Nordman and P-Deep crew as potential acquisitions

  • ?

    collector_signal: Non-refundable deposit model creating secondary market impacts; canceled deposits flooding resale market and creating buyer hesitation

    high · Drew: 'if you bought sight unseen Halloween and really don't care for the game... now you're stuck with this non-refundable deposit. Now you're putting... ng that spot up for sale with another 30, 40 people'

    • 3:49
    Fancy fuckers. Basel? I don't know. It's Basil Hayden's. Basil and oregano? Drinking this whiskey. But we have another little mini segment today that I'm just going to add. It's not really a segment. Sure. But what you smoking today, Ian?
    4:02
    Yeah, Drew brought over cigars, and I'm excited to try this. So, Drew, you might be better qualified. It does say Don Raphael. I'm going to be putting Don in my mouth. Don is definitely going in my mouth. He's going in my mouth. And you know what I always say about podcasting? The only way you can improve podcasting is smoking on the air because everyone wants to hear you puffing on stuff. We can be like Elon Musk on Joe Rogan.
    4:27
    What'd you say, Drew? Yeah. We'll try not to do that, everybody. But we will. I will. It gets sloppy here. We never know. We're going old school audio today, which I love.
    4:38
    It's been too long to do this. We're sitting across from each other, so now I can look into Drew's soulful eyes. So just to set the scene. Set the scene, baby. Ian and I, both getting older, we're both wearing our glasses. Yes, we're older. Which is funny. It's true. Because for the longest time, Ian didn't have glasses. I don't know. It just makes me chuckle. But here we are in studio. We're sitting at the round table. And it's the same table we use for Twitch. So if you guys were watching us, you'd see us. I took the leaf out. We're staring at the... But now it's just Ian and I intimately with our screens in front of us. Very beautiful. And we got a little mood lighting. We got some cigars. We got some bourbon. We're sitting nice. Yeah. Do you want to talk more about these, or did I sum it up? Well, yeah. So once again. Don or I fell down my throat. I have been getting into the cigar hobby a little more, but I don't know shit about it. Yeah. Drew said to me, he's like, yeah, I'm getting into cigars. And I said, that's fucking cool. I'll smoke.
    5:35
    That's all it takes. I'll do fucking anything with you, buddy. But I do recommend these. So Cigar International, are you listening? Can we get a new sponsor? Cigar International.
    5:46
    They're listeners. So I bought this, like, sampler pack of these Don Raphael. And these are the Churchill, so these are the big old 7-inchers, which is way bigger than I'll ever hope to be. So maybe that's why I like them. I don't know. Don in the mouth.
    6:01
    I didn't expect it, but it's happening. We already crossed that line. so anyways a lot of phallic jokes today yeah yeah so these are the this is the gold one um they are tasty i've had a few and i just i just think i'm actually you know what i think this is the one that i put in carrie hardy's mouth at uh expo so carrie hardy tell us tell us what you're thinking about down in your mouth like that specific cigar i think this one yeah okay so so you put that in carrie hardy's mouth and then in his ass and then you're putting it in your mouth yes so we yeah That's almost like making out with Cary Hardy. Oh, I did that. And his asshole, apparently.
    6:41
    Oh, man, we are off to the races here. Pinball, pinball, pinball. So what are we talking about today, Ian? Well, you know what I thought? Let's keep it simple.
    6:51
    I didn't go to Expo, sadly. Oh, sorry, sorry, I'm rusty. What's on tap today, Ian? What's on tap? Yeah, so we're going to talk about MGC, which I did attend. We're going to kind of get caught up, or at least you guys are going to catch me up on pinball and what's happening i'll give you my two cents like you give a shit about the games i played at mgc uh what i think about how everything's kind of shaping up some some things that really impressed me and things that scared the living shit out of me drew and then after that we're gonna do a little fuck it friday a little thanksgiving turkey hangover for all of you special fuck it friday yeah we'll do a special fuck it friday we didn't plan anything like usual drew didn't do show notes like usual notes and uh you know we're just gonna shoot this fucker from the hip right man and you know what no one knew this was happening i have a letter yeah you sure can nobody knew this was happening nobody knew this was happening it came together quickly that's what she said and uh it's it's gonna be a good show because ian and i we haven't talked in i mean we we message each other throughout the week a couple of times but we haven't like talked in a week or two yeah since mgc yeah we're recording uh the day before thanksgiving folks if you were wondering this is a fuck it wednesday time frame fuck it friday the time frame sir is very important to the overall establishment of what we're talking about so but i i think this is going to be a monster show well i love drew and i took a edible and now i'm going to smoke a cigar and i'm drinking whiskey so if anything i'll just sit back and laugh and giggle like a little kid so so you're taking my spot yeah this is your show now baby run with it i'm just here for comic relief i have to be the responsible one now i'm gonna show up and get drunk you gotta edit this shit fuck me they'll send you the file don't worry there will be no editing post where's the where's the post button dot dot dot uh so why don't you kick it out well ian's ian's lighting a cigar there so um yeah we'll get right into it so let's uh yeah let's go through a little uh manufacturer roundup here what happened to my cigar man what'd you do did you this isn't the gold right here yep gotcha damn it how'd that happen oh well i made out with that one sucking hard it's like sucking it like why the fuck is this so hard to suck or they say like a marble through a garden hose or a golf ball through a garden that's right now i got tobacco in my mouth That's great. Now I can taste it. All right.
    9:17
    So, yeah, we'll run down the list. So let's start. Can we talk about MGC? Yeah, go ahead. We can talk about whatever you want. Hold on. Let me light this, buddy. Because. What? Go ahead. What? I just wanted to be awkward. Oh, my God. What did you say?
    9:31
    Okay, MGC. So, once again, Ian's lighting his cigar. This one's cut properly. Oh, there you go. Now, that's a good ash. You got nice ash.
    9:44
    it doesn't feel like nice ash that's a very nice lighter by the way uh-huh it's right it's my torch lighter from amazon all right everybody ladies ladies and gentlemen let's talk about mgc and you know i really feel bad if those tribe members that i saw the photos by the way and i really really wish i would have went to expo oh my god that looked like it was so much fun and i missed out big time uh that was the first time in my life where i was just like in the fetal position wishing things were different i would have been there in a heartbeat but work sucks i have a shit job right now so that's where my life is right now but that's okay it's okay make it work we are i'm a hard worker i'm a middle class all day long and i'm proud of it so i'll just you know fucking chug along and not think about my feelings ever so but i won't rub it in but yeah we you know and I talked about it on the Pinball Expo Aftermath Special. Try saying that five times fast. But, yeah, the tribe members coming out and just the plethora of people that were there was amazing. The photos, look, I could smell the photos. Oh, Glenn Wechter was so excited to be away from his family and kids. I hope they're not listening.
    10:57
    Because he... Post. Well, he's like a lot of us. He works a lot. You know, he does his thing. He was shoving drinks into my face. I thought it was going to be the other way around. I wanted to see you puke in a urinal. He's like, Drew, drink. Here's a bottle. And he was walking around Expo the whole time with a bottle of bourbon. God bless that man. Glenn Wachter, we love you, buddy. I salute you, sir.
    11:21
    These cigars are delicious, man. Seven fucking inches is a lot of smoke, though. Woo, baby. All right. We got a lot of show. A lot of show. Let's talk. MBC. So I like the setup this year. This year we went and we actually saw the vendor show, which was cool.
    11:37
    I was surprised, before we get into the pinball stuff, the lack of arcade games. There was only like two rows of arcade games. In years past, there was just an enormous amount of arcade machines. And I need people to start stepping up because that show used to be the only show where I could play some rare games that I always wanted to play, like Kicker. uh let's see some other arcade games from old school arcade games that i just love um you know we saw like that beeves and butthead oh yeah arcade machine which was so cool um trying to think what else here um you know something major havoc stuff you don't see every day sure you know that that that stuff's the cool stuff and i wish people would have brought more arcade games you know do you think that the hobby is shifting that way because you know how like most pinball people tell the same story we do you know i grew up in the 70s or the 80s i played a lot of i went to a lot of arcades i played the arcades i wasn't really into pinball and then they found out pinball just had more replayability and maybe maybe there's a giant shift that's happening well there was definitely a ton of more pinball than it was a couple years ago yes okay i've noticed that and i didn't even think about that until you just said it but that's kind of what's rolling around in my noggin is maybe that's what's going on yeah it's like a three to one ratio when we started it was for every arc or for every pinball machine when there was three arcades there was a year or two now it's flipped yeah there might have been a hundred arcades maybe more it was like well in the old place they had in the was it the sheridan or whatever yeah it was in like three different like levels of arcade games remember we go in that one weird basement looking thing and yes there was more arcade games there too that's where they And console games. I mean, they had a lot of console games there. Oh, it's a gaming convention. Yeah, I mean, there were some pretty cool console games. Console games I'd never seen before. I was like, dude, this shit's crazy. But did you see those arcade games that were like Cosmotron and stuff like that, but they made that one, that Japanese one? Yeah, that looked cool. What was the name of that? I don't know, man. Oh, fuck. Fucking cool Japanese game. Yeah. That's what I think I yelled. But it was like a... Be more specific, asshole. Was that a one-off, though, that somebody made, do you think? Well, you were telling me you thought maybe Roth Rills or something makes them. Yeah, it looked like, for you guys, there's that company that makes, what, Cosmotrons and Killer Bee? Is that right? Those big ones? Yeah. I don't know what those are called. Yeah. I think that might have been the same company is what I thought. Well, it was in that area. Yeah, if anyone knows what I'm talking about, maybe email us, poormanspimple.com. Yeah, it was like, all I know is in the game, you're like on a motorcycle. but the artwork on that arcade cabinet and the arcade cabinet style alone was so fucking cool. I was like, it was a head-turner. It was beautiful lines on that machine. It looked like contemporary and retro at the same time, right? Oh, it was so pretty. Yeah, it was so pretty. I wish, I really do wish they had a name for that. Nobody looked like they were having fun playing that game, but it was a beautiful-looking game. Isn't that every beautiful-looking game? That's most arcade games. Like you said, Major Havoc's a good example. The thing costs like six or seven grand. You play it twice, and you're like, hmm.
    14:41
    I played Major Havoc. Yeah, next. That's arcade man for you. Drew and I spent a lot of years on that. Okay. We have earned the right to make fun of arcade games. Not all you people have. So be careful. I'll make fun of pinball. Just watch me. We earned that too. Yeah.
    14:58
    All right. So the pinball thing. Let's just go down the list of, let's go with some of the things that really impressed me. Let's start off on a happy note. What do you think? Talking about MGC? Yeah. Pinball. Pinball companies. Okay. Well, let's start with the lesser known smaller manufacturers or work our way up to the big dog. How's that? Okay. You want to do it that way? That's fine. So let's start with Haggis Pinball. Haggis. You always correct me on that. Yeah, sorry, man. Sorry, Damien. Haggis Pinball. So have you been following any of this? No. What happened there? Well, nothing. They weren't at MGC. Nothing really happened. Well, yeah. And that's probably because of travel and COVID. That's fine. Did they have Fathom at Expo or no? They did not. Oh, bummer. Um, so, you know, there's been some hubbub about, he released some videos recently, okay? Okay. Very transparent videos. And some people said, hey, we love your transparency. And other people said, you really shouldn't be that transparent because now you're making it seem like you don't know what you're doing. You know, he was basically saying like, hey, we're learning as we go.
    16:05
    Which, we all kind of knew that. Correct. So what would be your take on that? If you just heard Damien say that, because he said that in a video that he posted on YouTube.
    16:16
    We didn't know about the growth and just, like I said, learning things as they're going along. Are you okay with that? Yeah, I'm not shocked, number one. Okay. Not shocked. We knew this going in. Okay. Anyone who thought different is wrong. Nobody thought they were going to be Stern or even American Pinball, for that matter. Nobody just automatically just starts assembling hundreds of pinball machines in a day. You just don't do that. Or a week. Or even a month. It depends on what you have set up. And they know this. So I don't know if anyone saw his other videos, but not one video that Damien has released has showed like a big warehouse full of workers. No. No, certainly not. So let's pump the brakes a bit and be a little easier on the guy. He's been transparent, so you know he's learning. like that was cop and sense he didn't even have to say it to be honest but but i'm playing those of you out there that yeah i know what you're doing for those of you out there and i'm talking to those that are out there not you those that are out there that are giving him shit about that which is shocking to me by the way uh shame on you man the guy's trying he's working his ass off but some people are saying that they they're using the um you know some of the pre-order money and all this stuff because you know fathom sold out pretty quickly because they haven't gotten any out yet absolutely so that's what they do tell me a company that really hasn't done that when they first started out absolutely and very few of them have succeeded but everyone's rooting for damien i'm rooting for damien i was just about to say don't don't misunderstand what we're talking about here i'm in damien's corner absolutely i'm merely presenting these are facts like i said he put this out you know people took it two different ways as you know most things often you know go but um yeah i was just i was just curious on your your take on that well think about it though man you're damien just put yourself in in we don't know his cash flow going into this right he's been at this now for a few years right he made kelts you know i think they're still making some because they're still going out they're working on the kelp thing right yeah and and i lost my train of thought.
    18:26
    I'll pick up your train. Yeah, so they've been getting counts out. I actually saw, oh, Steve John, who you don't know Steve John. So for you guys who are new to the podcast, at Expo we met Joseph Hood and Ari's friend John and I thought his name was Steve So I called him Steve when I was doing my shout episode And he was the only person I got wrong Ah, there you go. Everyone else, and people were messaging me. They're like, how do you remember all that shit? Because I just have this weird memory for, like, interactions and, you know, whatever. He knows names and penis sizes. Yes, but not his name. So I called him. But it's penis size he's got.
    19:10
    So Steve John. But he just got a Kelson and actually just got delivered to his house. Cool. And I saw that. They were playing it, so that's cool. Yeah, so what I was saying is just that, you know, he's getting things done. The cash flow, obviously, to get that started, just to kind of float for those first three years, I mean, you have to have... Oh, it's a couple million dollars, I mean, to get that going. You're probably just living off a can of beans at that point. And now here you go, you self-fathom, you get this huge influx of capital.
    19:44
    Yeah, it's got to be nice to see your bank account one day and be like, you know what, I'm going to have a steak dinner tonight, fuck them.
    19:52
    I would do the same thing, we're all human, all right? But is it right? I don't know. We don't know. Part of the issue is, in some people's mind, they're looking at what's happened in the last five years. They're looking at Dutch. They're looking at highway. They're looking at deep root.
    20:12
    I'm not saying Damien's like that at all because I'm sure he's not, but that's what people are thinking. Damien's about as sweet as they come. He's a great dude. He has the best of intentions. He's up there with Charlie in my book. Speaking of which, give that guy a break. All right. Who? Charlie. Spooky. Spooky and company. I was really waiting for the end on that one. all right so i alluded to companies that terrified me absolutely terrified me right yeah spooky halloween terrified me i did not like that game i didn't overlay some spooky halloween music you're editing it baby you're editing it go for it no i was so incredibly disappointed with that game i was so incredibly disappointed with ultra man even though ultra man was brighter it's the same game it is the same layout yeah it's it's okay give us give us a couple give us a pros and cons list here it felt it felt more homebrew than their last few games okay and what what which part in the part that uh the layout didn't make a whole lot of sense there was things that weren't very cleanly done in that game as far as the hedges the little plastic figures, the cheap kitchen knife, all the little bells and whistles that are in pinball machines that you're going to spend good money on, you know, I'm choking here now. It's getting real smoky here. Why is that? Well, the things you mentioned were some aesthetic things. Why is that different than a Stern plastic? That's exactly my point. I'm not liking Stern either these days, okay? So then you go through that, and the cape... I got your back, Charlie, even if Ian doesn't. See, you were saying the same shit. I hate when he does this. He was saying the same shit to me at MGC. But when we get on the microphone. No, hang on. Hang on. Not about that stuff. I didn't care about the sculpts and the. No, I'll be transparent here. I hope so. Fuck. Are we going to lose more sponsors? We're down to like two. All right, cool. By the way, we're sponsored by Flippin' Out Pinball and pinballprices.com. Hi, Zach. Hi, Nicole. Don't drop us. We love you. Okay, go ahead. No, no. Give your honest take. I like where you're going. No, no, no. We talked about this, too. You never know where the ball is coming from. It's a very hard game to understand. No, that was my big... I'm saying it, Charlie. I'm not talking to Charlie. Bug. Bug designed it. Bug. I think it's a good... Ultraman, I think, is a good game. I think the layout is okay-ish. I really do. But the part that got me was, yeah, you couldn't see where the ball was coming. Yeah. In a lot of instances. Just the overall package was disappointing. Sorry to say, it was disappointing. What did you think of the artwork?
    23:00
    I thought it was disappointing. I think it's all very disappointing. Okay. Yeah, nothing really stood out to me in that game. Was there anything you did like about it? The theme. I like Halloween. I love that movie, man. I'm burning my arm with a cigar right now, Jesus. No, it's fair. It's a fair criticism, I think. I like the ambition that Bug showed. I love Bug as a person. I love Charlie as a person. I love their company. I support their company. But this one has me a little perplexed because I feel like it's a big step down from what they've been kind of gearing up for bigger games.
    23:35
    And I'm not seeing that from them. And they're riding high on that pre-sale that was Rick and Morty. And their next game, I felt, was supposed to be pretty instrumental in catapulting their brand, their spooky brand, to the next level now. and they didn't capitalize on it. Instead, they released a game that, in my opinion, needs a lot more refinement for the shot layout perspective. Well, that was going to be my question. Do you think this is going to affect their future releases? Maybe the next one, depending on what it is. You know, it's the, shit, name a sequel that sucked. You know, Blade II syndrome.
    24:18
    Blade I was so good, everyone lined up in the theater to see Blade II, and then Blade II sucked, you know, and you're like, oh, what the hell? You know, you're just living off that hype that was Blade I. You know, now we're talking about Rick and Morty and that hype that was brought to that and that quick, you know, everything got sold out within a day. Now the next game's released. I'm going to get in on that no matter what it is. And then people got in on it, and then all of a sudden all these spots opened up.
    24:45
    It's not promising, and I don't want people to, like, punish the next release, you know. We'll have to see what it is, but it's tough. It's a tough market. You've got to really bring your A game when you're going to release a product for that amount of money, in my opinion. No, and you're not wrong, but I also think that the way Spooky's doing business is going to benefit them, meaning they're selling these non-refundable deposits. Yeah, it's good for their business, but in future business, not so good. Well, people are stuck in a subpar game. Do you think that it's so bad that if the next theme is great, they won't be able to sell 1,000 units? I don't know. Okay. That's interesting to see.
    25:29
    I hope so. If it's great, I hope they do sell 1,000 units. Because like I said, I feel like it would bring people to hesitate slightly. Playing Ultraman. Well, hold on. If you bought sight unseen Halloween and really don't care for the game, after all was said and done, now you're stuck with this unrefundable deposit. Now you're putting that spot up for sale with another 30, 40 people. I don't know how many people, 5, 10, 12. I don't know. I'm just using numbers now. but um yeah it's just it's just it could you're you're gonna feel a little jaded than that or maybe hesitant i guess well plunking down that kind of cash here's for a spot without seeing the game here's what i'm saying their business motto i get it's good for spooky but it might not be the best for the consumer obviously because we're buying games we're not even seeing sure That's my thing. I'm looking out for you, the people. I think Spooky is in an amazing position, and I'll tell you why. Because every game that they're going to make now for the, let's just say the next couple of years, two years, three years, four years, whatever it is, if they're making 1,000 units or 1,200 units, they're going to be in a really good position, and here's why. Because those are essentially limited games, right? because if you you know you can buy a godzilla premium you'll be able to buy a godzilla premium for the next two years you know people are still buying iron maidens they're still buying jurassic park right if they're only going to release you know a thousand twelve hundred even fifteen hundred that's still going to be basically like a limited edition and people are going to flock to it and they're going to still they're going to have some good themes and they're going to do well over the next five years that's my prediction does that make sense yeah you know do do they have some work to do yes you do you know they just hired some more programmers yeah okay i did not know that okay yeah they they they just announced that's good recently yeah they hired some more programmers because there there was some lackluster in in the programming as well like like i said i did enjoy ultraman you know that that kaiju stuff and godzilla and all that stuff's growing on me a little bit, so I thought that was kind of cool. The layout, like I said, it's fine. It's okay.
    27:53
    I wouldn't own either one of those games, but at the end of the day, it's okay. They are striving to get better. It's not like they're like, we know we're going to sell these games. Do you think this is infinitely a better game than their last two releases? No, Alice Cooper is amazing. or Rick and Morty. Rick and Morty? Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit... But Rick and Morty took a lot of crap, too. It's a hard shooter. Yeah, that was the thing. I mean, once again, we're back to the layout. You know, the layout was okay. Maybe instead of programmers, they needed to get some real designers in there. Well, that's been said, too. Long time. You've been saying that since Rob Zombie. Exactly. If Spooky could nab, like, you know... Whoever. Nordman. Yeah. whoever it may be uh gobble up that deeper crew would that be ironic isn't it ironic yep um yeah no you're right you're right but let's let's move on to the next one we could we could talk about this all day but yeah next one moving on uh american pinball moving up so we played valhalla legends of valhalla which is a riot pinball game manufactured by american pinball i got to sit down and talk with Kugler about this one.
    29:15
    And just the process of porting over a game like Valhalla from Riot Pinball. Oh, to their own system. And making it fit in the American pinball system. And the first thing he said right off the gate was how impressed he was with the overall game that Riot Pinball put out. As far as a finished product, he was like, that's about as finished of a product as you could have seen. And all American Pinball had to do was work on porting over the code into their system. Because I forget what he said. Either American Pinball is running an older system or if Riot was running an older system. Do they have a proprietary system or are they using P3? P3. So it was one system over the other. It was like a different batch. I don't know. Anyway, so they had to update a few things there. They added a little bit more of the animations and coding and all that good stuff and just put the polish on that game. But for the most part, I thought that was a good, old-school, fun pinball machine to play. And I like it in the American pinball lineup because Houdini, tight shooter, very difficult game um you know then they had oktoberfest kind of a wide open uh kind of a more of an easier shooter but it's kind of a slower game and then they had hot wheels a little bit more kid-friendly fast game um fun shooter maybe not as depth probably isn't there as much but a fun game and now you have valhalla now you have more of an adult theme again you have you know kind of that darker artwork i thought the artwork color scheme and everything great was amazing i thought the sculpts in there were actually really really good and detailed again american pinball slash riot pinball um they put out high quality stuff but don't get a lot of respect in the pinball community i still think that their construction is done very well check i think that their play fields are good um i think that their artwork pops i think their animations have gotten so much better um i think their rules they still have some of the deepest rules in the game oh it's great it's great with the exception of maybe jersey jack i mean their rules are incredibly deep um and uh let's see uh i think they just have a good selection i I think if they could get some more teams that people want, I think it's what people are really looking for.
    32:03
    But for the most part, though, they make a good quality product. Sure. And I'm proud of American Pinball and their efforts in not giving up. And they could have easily folded the towel after Oktoberfest, the way people were bagging on that game. But now, look at it now. You can't even get an Oktoberfest. People tend to hold on to that game. True enough. Yeah, yeah. And Kugler and I were talking about just overall just how much more enjoyable it is to shoot because it's kind of a well, it's a nice fan layout. It's a nice, easy shooting game. It is. And there's not a lot that stops the ball, so it's surprisingly fast. It is a smooth shooter for sure. Yeah, and I ran into Dave Brennan, and he kind of told me about that too. And I was like, yeah, that's a great point. The ball doesn't stop in that game, really. I mean, there's some serious shots in there that the ball comes swinging back at you. So you've got to be at your toes. So I think the difficulty is there, and I think that the looks are there. I didn't play enough to say if the code's there, but it seemed like it was pretty damn cool, man. I was pretty pumped about it. Would I own one? Yeah, maybe in the future. Probably used, though. Maybe not new. I don't know if I'd pay full price for that, but it's still a really, really good game. And if you guys did order it, I hope you guys enjoy it. and you know where the ball's coming from at all times.
    33:23
    So that's nice. My whole take on that is, yes, I think, once again, in a vacuum, it's a great game. The problem I keep having with this is, you know, it's $8,400, and then you just think what you can buy with that, right? That's the problem. Because you could buy almost a Godzilla premium, brand new. You can buy any other Stern premium used.
    33:55
    You can buy a Jersey Jack used. All these different things that you can get for the $8,400. Comes down to the theme. Yes, exactly. So that's my point. I don't think that theme is strong enough for $8,400. I don't think so either. But I do think that it's a great game. But I will say they put a lot of effort into it, and the construction, the quality is there. And we can't say that about a lot of other companies right now. True. And I think they should be applauded for that, and I think there should be more nice things said about American Pinball. No, like I said, if you just play that game and you're like, what do you think of this game? It's freaking amazing. It's a fun game. It's fun to shoot. It is fast. It's flowy. It's got everything. It's got the cool sculpts. It's got, you know, the animations were cool. The theme is neat. But like I said, it just, they need to get that licensed theme out there. And the rumor has it, we're not getting into rumors today, they have He-Man.
    34:55
    There you go. That, that would be cool. Take my money now, right? Yeah, it's a great theme. Fuck. Great theme. Good job, American Pinball. Put a Castle Grayskull in the back like Elvira's house. Yeah. Oh, game over, man. Probably have Dave Brennan model that bad boy. No shit. Yeah. Dave Brennan, you sexy bitch. I love you, Dave. That'd be great.
    35:17
    Speaking of quality, let's go to CGC because quality is the name of the game over there. Holy crap. I got to play Cactus Canyon, Drew, for the first time in my life. What did you think of it?
    35:29
    Super fun. Fuck, that's a fun game. I had more fun shooting that game than any other game. That fuck rang through my ears. Sorry. Fuck. I had more fun playing that game than any other game at CGC. Or CGC. At MGC. Yeah. I thought that was my favorite of the show. It was so much fun. It shot like a dream. Every shot you want, you hit. It's fantastic.
    35:58
    Only pause for my big concern on that game. We were speaking with Michael Williams. Shout out. Tribe member Mike Williams. Love you, Mike.
    36:11
    He got a chance to kind of sit and play with it for a while, and he said he was like his third game he was able to beat the game. Yeah, get to the wizard mode. So I know Mike sucks at pinball.
    36:23
    By the way, go to silverballswag.com. You can get your new shirts, and you can put anybody sucks at pinball. Ian sucks at pinball. Drew sucks at pinball. Oh, yeah, they have it set up where you can put anybody. Oh, man, we haven't talked in a while. So I'm going to do this quick little, because we're doing this until the end of the year. So on silverballswag.com, we have baseball jerseys, we have shirts, and we have hoodies. And what it says, it says, blank sucks at pinball. And it's got our little Milwaukee Brewers upside down logo that Billy YJ helped us with. And it's got the flippers. And you can customize them and put anybody's name on them. So the thing is between us, this is great. Ian didn't know about this. I love that idea, dude. So between now and the end of the year, we're having a little contest between myself and Tim Lee. Whoever gets the most names on a shirt, we're going to do something. I don't know what the bet is yet, but we're going to run this until at least the end of the year. I'm definitely getting a Drew Sucks at pinball shirt. So my wife's getting one, too. I ordered a couple, and I ordered one that says Tim Lee, and she goes, I don't want that. She goes, I want one that says Drew Sucks at pinball. So anyways it been this thing But yeah you can get them customized You can put anybody name on there that awesome so yeah so silverbellswag check it out uh like i said we we put up the stakes of the bet uh i have to talk to tim lee about it but right now it's pretty much neck and neck we've sold i want to say it's like a dozen of each so we've actually been selling these things yeah it's it's been great so yeah go to silverbellswag.com you know if you want to buy it with someone else's name that's fine but i recommend you go there and get Tim Lee sucks at pinball. Do not say Zach Manny sucks at pinball, because that dude's fucking good at pinball.
    38:08
    Touche. Okay, anyways, you were saying. Yeah, so my one thing of concern is the code on that. Is it deep enough? Did they fix anything? Are they going to fix everything? There's all these rumors saying, yeah. No, Lyman's working on it. All that stuff is getting worked on, but it's hard. No, they're saying Lyman's working on a code, and they're going to charge you for the code. That's the rumor. Ooh. so so like no lyman has i'd buy it it's been confirmed it's been confirmed that lyman's at cgc and i'm not correct me if i'm wrong oh a month or two ago okay i've been out of it guys so that's an interesting hire yeah so no that that's been confirmed lyman can literally sit on a game for a fucking year touche and he will make some ridiculous so the rumor is that he's he's working on polishing the code if you play this game on a tuesday at four o'clock yes you can enter this wizard mode exactly and then you can buy the code download it there you go nice man that's cool congrats lyman on the new gig by the way um yeah but overall i thought the quality of that game surpassed even monster bash and i was impressed with all the crap they were able to get in monster bash and make it look so good i know these are williams games that they're porting over but they they help with the they're they're upgrading these sculpts i'm sure they're making these things a little bit more sound mechanically i was just super impressed with it man i really was what was your take on cactus canyon i don't know if you've given no the same i mean i i played it a couple times the original and you know i was like yeah this is okay but then with the rgb lights and everything they put in there and the sculpts um you know and i talked about this a little bit in the last podcast. I mean, it's just a well put together game. Very cool. And CGC does it so well. And my take on it was, if it's your only game, it might not be fantastic. But if you have even a couple of pins, this will be a great addition to your lineup. No doubt about it. Yeah, we got to stop doing that, though, comparing it if you have small collections or only game. Because there's only so many games out there that the replayability is OK with only having one game well that's the thing i mean if you know those are the the top tier like this is a must have game okay right yeah i mean there how many games would you say you know and i'm not talking about like oh this one guy i think this is the only game and he loves it which is fine but there's you know for the for the masses there's like 20 maybe 30 games like that right maybe a few more Let's say 50. Yeah, I don't know. There's probably 50 games out there that you can say, hey, if this is my only game. I'll give you an example. Chris Chandler, another Tribe member, he only has a Simpsons pinball party. Yeah. He's owned it for like three or four years. He loves it. He plays it every day. You know, it's a fun pin, right? Absolutely. You can do that. Now, if you have, oh, Bram Stoker's Dracula. Stroker. Yep, Stroker. If you have strokers and that's your only game, that's going to be tough, right? Because it's a one-trick pony. No, I get that. Yeah, I get that. That's what I'm saying. I get that.
    41:24
    All right, let's move on. Moving on. Fuck me. Just like old times. Move on. Ian's like, I'm not talking about this anymore. I'm over it. All right, so AP, who are you going to do next? Let's go Jersey Jack. Okay, what do you got on Jersey Jack? So you guys are going to laugh at me, but I finally got to play Guns N' Roses.
    41:42
    Thank you. Yeah, the limited edition. I will say this. My first game, first time playing that game, who do I play? Our good buddy, Eric. Tribe member number two, maybe? Four. Love you, Eric.
    41:57
    And Eric Minier, the designer of said game. First time I ever played it. First time I ever stepped in front of it. Eric Minier's like, let's play some dollar games. Eric, I love you, by the way, brother.
    42:10
    We shot this shit for a while, Eric and I. He agreed to be on the show. Really? He finally did, huh? I said, I'm going to hold you to it this time. He's like, all right. I'm like, the brass didn't tell you you couldn't do it. He's like, no. I was like, are you sure?
    42:24
    We don't believe you. I feel like you asked them, and they told you, fuck no, you're not coming on this fucking show. They were like, we never heard of him. And then Ken opened his mouth. Oh, don't do it. That one guy pissed in our, puked in the urinal.
    42:38
    We're back, baby. Ken, you know what, brother? Love you, man. No, so I got to play Eric, the Erics, I guess. The Erics. And I learned a few things. One, that game is a show. It transcends pinball in many ways. That's what I said. Really? No, I honestly said that, yes. It truly transcends. It transcends pinball. It elevates pinball in such a ridiculous manner. you know i asked eric i was like all right so you designed this bad boy if you could go back to pirates you know would you change some things around he was like man i was so fucking naive when it comes to building pinballs back then like there were certain things i was taking it apart to clean it or whatever to fix the part he's like why the hell did i make it this like this i'm an idiot you know he's just laughing and i'm it was funny it was a very cute moment anyway so yeah he we were talking about this the light show and and just everything about this game and for for for what it is and for what they charge for it it really is a show like it is just an amazing experience having said that i've never played worst pinball in my life when i played those guys i i was i was it was like goddamn playing willie wonka for the first time when we were on that yes yes straight down the middle straight down the middle straight down the middle i even freaking nudged the shit out of his machine and it got it off off kilter because there was cameras and stuff on it and stuff because they were doing like a stream or whatever you know where you people can see it on the big monitor um but yeah i was i have yet and i told you this at mgc i have yet to have a really good game on a jersey jack pinball machine and it breaks my heart because i love those their games so much but for whatever reason like my brain just doesn't function with all that stimuli no it is a different experience and i've had the same thing i've been going back and forth about getting one not getting one because it is one of the best if not the best pinball experience out there and i said the same thing but there's something about that layout i don't know i'd have to play more yeah i'm still exactly i've only have like 10 games i have to say though that that game just the the light show alone and we were talking i was like man what are you trying to do trying to put Penn Stadium's out of business and he laughed at me he's like you know they have a kit for this and I thought there's no way you can put more LEDs in there this is what Eric Minear said you know and uh I was like and he's like dude Scott knocked it out of the park and made it even better you know I was cracking up you know and Eric was just I was like man you're just living the dream dude this is such a fucking amazing game and you know he appreciated that i think that's why he's going on the show now because i i really buttered him up for you there drew but um yeah no that game fantastic now did i play enough to like get the rule set no no did i play enough to get the shots no i played the one game and then i watched and i hovered this kid in the game next to it uh had a killer score the kid had to have been like i'd say 12 maybe 10 11 12 in that air age so i know it can be done i'm sure people out there are blowing that game up i'm not saying it's a bad layout yet but that one is a fantastic game and if you guys if you're out there and you got the limited edition you picked right because that's a phenomenal no it's an amazing you imagine bringing that into your home and then having a friend who hasn't played pinball in the last 20 years get in front of that machine oh my god that wouldn't blow his fucking mind like wait this is what pinball is now i mean put it next to any pinball that's been released in the last say 30 years oh 20 years 10 years whatever yeah 50 60 yeah well i go back and see what's supposed yeah no but yeah you know like i said even 10 years if someone was playing games you know 10 20 years ago exactly and uh no that's why i said and you You know, Kaneda said it best. He's like, if you had Godzilla and Guns N' Roses, and those are your only two games, you know, you'd be set for a long time. You'd be good. Yeah. You'd be good. Yeah, because you got, you know, this amazing layout. Because he's getting a Godzilla, and he already has one, right? So he bought those two, yeah. Sure. Kaneda, really? Yeah, but he's not wrong. No, he's not wrong. If those are your two games, I mean. Hi, Chris. There have been so many people, including myself, that, you know, we'll get to it later, but, yeah, you get in front of a Godzilla, They said, it doesn't matter if you like the theme or not. That's just one of those games. Same thing with Guns N' Roses. If you don't even know the band, you get in front of that thing, you're like, what the fuck is happening here? Dude, we went to the concert.
    47:37
    And then you go and you play the game. It's the fucking concert, man. Yep. And Eric said as much as they dropped. He's like, I was like, you got spoiled with assets, didn't you? And he was like, man, I tell you what. They dropped off nine terabytes worth of concert footage and video. and they were looking through all of that and I was like how long did that take he was like one guy got locked in a room with it and it took him about 40 hours to start pulling shit from this to get what they want and use just to get it and he said it seems so seamless and it makes sense you're playing the game you had the music going the video is playing but what's very impressive with all of that work is they're really syncing video up to a song that's playing on a pinball machine so the pinball machine's playing the song right and then they'll have footage from different concerts and everything is synced up to the lyrics of the song you know how long that's got to take and yes no absolutely and they have full songs yes and you go ahead and yeah i just wanted to say and a couple more times and they have a ton of they have all the assets like slash was like yeah take whatever you need no i know and i was like you're never gonna have that again are you he's like no never ever again he's like i got so spoiled see i'm here's here's i'm selling games one more thing it's happening one more thing i wanted to ask it and i kicked myself for not asking him so if he's on the show i need you to ask this i was like has anyone in the history of pinball i don't know if this is probably illegal but i would love to see this happen in the history of pinball if you wanted full assets for something say let's give a great example harry potter right and let's say harry potter they give the the licensed uh i won't let's turn it doesn't work in this scenario but like jjp right and jjp wants all the assets but obviously harry potter's gonna be a prick to work with and they're not gonna want to give up half the shit and then oh you want the music well that's twenty thousand dollars right there wouldn't that be cool though if they made a pinball machine with full assets and just dropped it off boom this is what i want to sell to promote your brand yeah see and i think because when you explain pinball to somebody that's used to putting their their things on lunch boxes and t-shirts like what assets you need oh harry potter with a wand shows how old ian is lunchboxes throw it on a t-shirt right no you're right and but when you're talking pinball you're it's this multimedia experience yeah you have music you have sound effects it's voices likenesses likenesses all of that stuff it's not just a t-shirt it's very very dense and if people aren't familiar with pinball which let's face it majority of people aren't what i know shocker uh i would just love to maybe maybe not 100 assets because obviously the video and stuff but like they would get the hint like oh this is what you want to do because i'd like to think they would cut more deals that way because they want their likeness out there in the world to be the best right they don't want some hacked up slash version of their property out there you know what i'm saying yeah let me let me tell you how big pinball is that's like that's like that's like getting a harry potter shirt and then like having to pay extra for like the wand you know no no and like the hair and the shoes like you you go to disney or go to harry potter's for i don't know who owns harry potter and they're like this is the shirt this is the shirt i would like to make harry potter he's got shoes and he's got brown hair and a wand and she'll be like oh i thought you just wanted a naked boy on my shirt and then you're like no no i want to add all this other stuff to it that's kind of how pinball is in a way where it's like they just want to slap the name on the side because in their head they're like oh okay well and it's not that they just want to do that they just want to get that's what they understand well no it's not even they just want to get paid for that so if you say hey like jurassic park i get it yeah jurassic park they're like cool yeah we'll give you the logo and we'll uh we'll give you nedry yeah eric men you're just like dude you don't know what the fuck you're talking about i get it i know i don't but i just feel like if they saw the full package they would kind of understand more seven inch package and be more well mine's more like a three this is about true to life right now we've been smoking this this whole time down to the nub it is what it is you're absolutely right though it's just such a shame that it's awesome for Guns N' Roses that game but just think about what could have happened with Pirates of the Caribbean or Willy Wonka or some of these other games where licensing is a little bit less restrictive for these people because they want to make a really good product. Tell me there's a designer out there that doesn't want full assets. You know what I'm saying? It would help.
    53:03
    All right, I'm done with that. But you know what? Moral of the story is, that game's a fucking epic journey. Is that their best game to date? Their best game?
    53:14
    Yeah, construction-wise, layout-wise, yes. However, theme-wise, it still doesn't do a lot for me. But it is a concert. It is fucking cool. Like, even if you're not a fan of that band, you're going to be a fan of that pinball machine. However, you know, I'd probably still take it over Waz or something.
    53:33
    I would. Yeah, if they give you an option of every game, regardless of price. It's their best. Yeah, it's their best. Although I do love Waz still. No, they're all great. I mean, you know, I own Hobbit. I want it dialed in, all that stuff. But it's going to happen. Keep bumping this keyboard. I'm worried I'm, like, stopping our audio. No, we're still here, buddy. We are still here. I'm a little rusty. That's okay. My dick's a little hard, though. I'm just kidding. Is this any different than our old shows? I'm smoking. Yeah. What you smoking? What you smoking there, pal? All right, so I don't know. You want to go to Stern? Let's do it. The big dog. Is there anything else? I think we hit everybody. I think so. All right, guys. Stern. first off let's start with the positives okay jack dangers jurassic park blew me away isn't that a fucking amazing game it's great jack jack you did a great job man and i don't know how you had a bill of materials still at where it was but still managed to get drop targets in there did you see the most expensive thing in gary stern's arsenal do you know their secret how they shaved the the bomb on that one the lcd got even smaller it's not well a quarter of an inch smaller now my god well that that i have my cell phone is bigger than that they need to take that lcd and just move it to like the apron at that point because i can't see it it almost looks ridiculous yes no i i have i have some some issue with that but um that back ramp that goes around the back yeah on the left side it's a jump ramp yeah so they cut out some of the metal they did that the same money that's how they did the same money jack you're 20 cents silver yeah all right it's a jump all right baby cut out that piece of metal there can we cut out any more jack you did a fantastic no it is it is fun it was a great game and as much as i love the theme and i own the you know jurassic park premium i was like you know for the price and stuff i was like maybe maybe like like this would be a pin that i might put my base price like a pro now which is another thing we can talk about yeah that that'll get that'll get we'll talk about that later i don't want to rain on jack's parade that's not jack's thing jack's thing is what you designed jack i thought that was absolutely amazing i thought they did a great job with that I played Led Zeppelin Premium.
    56:08
    What are your thoughts? It was fun. It was a fun shooter. There's not much to it. It doesn't excite me. I think everyone kind of agrees with that. I feel like you kind of get gypped on the Pro obviously because you can get those nice side lights which I think add a little bit of flair to it because you really just looking at a whole lot of nothing with that pro If you got a pro boy I feel bad for you man That money could have been spent elsewhere, and you could have gotten a lot more pinball for your money.
    56:38
    But, yeah, it's okay. Now, in my opinion, Steve Ritchie kind of has been phoning it in since Star Trek.
    56:47
    Yeah. you know and i love the guy to death and i can't blame stern for everything steve richie because obviously stern's turning out some really quality games i.e godzilla but i just feel like that game just um it's really hard to get excited about that game but it's not a bad game you know what i'm saying the premium sure you know it's not bad it's it's a good it's like pure pinball it's like kind of an old school pinball machine and that's how i like viewed it like like it's almost akin to a solid or like a um you know um yeah like a solid state sure sure you know no and somebody wrote an interesting email to kaneda this week and he talked about his podcast where he was comparing the bomb to from led zeppelin premium to godzilla yeah because you know there was a rumor first that said oh keith allen got a lot more money for godzilla okay yeah but then he kind of broke it down and he said that you know like that building as impressive as it is you know it's really nothing more than some some metal and you know the plastics yeah and the way they did it you know it's very unique and it is a cool mac don't it's it's it's a very cool mac but he was kind of comparing apples to apples he said you know let's point it you know sorry that keep going I got other thoughts. Yeah. Well, he was talking about just from the bomb perspective. Yeah. That Led Zeppelin had three pop bumpers. Godzilla only has one. So they saved money there, right? Yeah. And then that mech that is very impressive, it doesn't cost all that much, right? Yeah. And then he compared some other things and some of the stuff on Led Zeppelin. Do they include? They have to include the licensing, too. Back to the licensing. well that was zeppelin with some songs verse godzilla versus a godzilla no there's but that was a big difference but that that's the question the question is you know is the license included in the bomb for the designer that's why sure i mean that's why beatles was what it was yeah you know be a single level and yeah no you're just you know but the platinum edition but the point diamond edition point this guy made was pretty interesting double diamond edition he was talking about drop targets because george gomez has gone on record saying drop targets are very expensive got him and well sure they do cost something but then you know it's like you got it so the the bottom line was about a mega spinner man that shit was mecha godzilla bro that little spinner that pops up mecha godzilla bringing it back mecha godzilla bro mecha dude i can't Hopefully that thing rose up and then you can, like, shit a spinner.
    59:37
    What Ian said. Well, well, well, well. That's a spinner? Well, well, well, well. That's just me partying by that spinner that rose up. What? Dude, seriously? That's so cool. Why didn't they just throw a Deadpool disco ball in there? Right next to the spinner. Would have been cooler. Mecha Godzilla with a disco ball. What if you did, bro? What if Mecha Godzilla started dancing next to the disco ball? For those of you who don't understand, I had an episode where I thought everything should be called Mechagodzilla. Like if it was a cool mech on a pinball machine, we should all call it Mechagodzilla. Totally. Like if you have a Godzilla game and you don't put Mechagodzilla doing something fucking epic, you got to because it's Mechagodzilla. So I was trying to make it a cool term like, bro, that's Mechagodzilla. I don't think it caught any steam there. Nothing. In fact, I probably damaged it more. now people are like i'm never calling it a mech we're gonna call it the thing that it does on a pinball machine nobody wants to hear that ever all right so anyway moving on so um what other games did i play so i played that i played led zeppelin um i played godzilla first and ian's a godzilla fan first game on godzilla i was now drew kind of now to be fair drew talked it up a bunch Drew said it was an awesome game, and he was super pumped, and he wanted to get a premium. Wait, wait, wait. No. Drew has a premium on order. Okay. That's great.
    61:06
    Congratulations, by the way. But no, he got me all jacked up, and then I'm like, all right, I got to try this fucking thing. And then I play it. Congratulations. Drew can pay more for a pinball machine than it's worth. Woo-hoo. Well, come on, Al. So I'm playing it, and I just was like... I was immediately let down right off the bat because I was expecting so much. And I just saw a lot of cheap plastic, and I saw a lot of things that didn't do anything. Did you see that magnet, bro?
    61:39
    And I was thinking, like, you know, Keith Allen is a master of making the ball move in just random ways or weird ways. Just like my wife. This is why you see so many wire forms in his games, because that ball is always moving. And I think it's very, very, very cool that he keeps that ball in your eyeline. And it's a cool trick that he does, because you can always see where the ball is for the most part. And it brings a lot of kinetic energy into that game, no matter any of his games.
    62:15
    People need to start recognizing what his style is. It's very kinetic. It's movement-based, and it's extremely fun, and you don't need to spend a ton of money on it, right? So playing it, I was like, it kind of felt almost like Jurassic Park in a way. It was very samesy to me. It felt like a Keith Elwin shooter.
    62:39
    And then I kind of told you, I was like, oh, man, really? Some of these other games, like Hector's Canyon, just have so much more in them. and you were like god no give it another shot you were pretty cool about it you were you cried a little bit because you're like how come you don't like anything i like and then i was like i gave him a hug and then we touched genitals and then i went back we're gonna do that tonight touch genitals the night is young wait till fucking friday and then so you know no i went and i played a couple more games on it because one you know it's hard to first impressions are always tough and uh so i wanted to check it out and and two i mean this is something that drew was super excited about and i love godzilla and it's worth seeing what he sees you know and so because believe it or not drew's opinion does matter drew drew's a lovely man did you hear that kathleen yeah drew is a lovely man and anyone who has met him probably has has learned that so until you left the podcast and also now i'm chopped liver yeah where's the end where's the end where's the end fuck all you guys ian's right here i brought i brought the it factor meaning i don't give a fuck the fuck it factor anyway um no after that second and third game dude totally totally reversed my opinion i actually love that game is so do you really it's his best game okay yeah it's his by far his best game and the way they designed that game is so clever and i know i've only played the premium but um i love the mecha godzilla in there the building godzilla building's great i got damn it if fucked if stern can just i was joking with drew at mgc about stern actually saving money on bombs by printing even skinnier plastic that's right you know i can see gary stern in his office going well how thick is the plastic oh a quarter of an inch i need a three ace now you know like or no yeah quarter of it no three ace i need a quarter of it you know i need it then i cut it in half again i need another one cut it in half you know with his white cat that he's very soon it'll be a piece of cardboard yeah it's a no it's like loose leaf paper you know it's just someone draws it on there i was like oh shit that's the college rule nice This is from a legal pad. Nice. Gary went hard on this one. The premium. We got the legal pad. He just wrote Deadpool on it. Cool.
    65:12
    That's some good handwriting there, bro. I mean, those plastics. I was looking at one of them, and it was starting to crack on its own. Just from my brain. I know. And it just seems so unfair to what Keith Elwin is doing over there. The one suggestion I saw people on Pinside making, which I was like, oh, my God, that would have been perfect, to have the Godzilla toy have, like, a light come out of its mouth and do something. You know, kind of like the breathing fire or whatever. Sure, yeah. Like, that's one thing that could have made that game, like, over the top great. Yeah. But as it sits, it's an amazing game. I was impressed with, all right, so I was watching some of the things on there, and I was kind of getting bummed that some things didn't interact with the ball like Mechagodzilla, and then it does. So what does Mechagodzilla do? Is that just, I can't remember. So Mechagodzilla, there's a spinner in front of him. Yes. Okay, so you hit the spinner, and you, like, charge it up, basically. Yep. Okay, and then to get to the multiball, when you shoot through that thing for the multiball shot. It goes through the spinner, and then it catches it in its chest. So cool. That's what it was. Yes. It's been a few weeks. And then that thing turns. I thought he was just stationary like Yoda. And he started doing shit. I was like, oh, my God. This game is so cool. Then that Mac turns, and now you have three stand-ups in front of it. Yes. Fucking cool. No, that is badass. That's what people need to talk about. Not so much the building. And that is not on the Pro, by the way. No, it's not. That's the premium feature. Yes. So forget the bridge and forget the building. I'm serious. That's a better mech. It's a better mech. Yes. 100%. Yes. Especially when you're not expecting it. Tell us we're wrong. Pornmanspinball.gmail.com. But you're right. You weren't expecting it because... Hashtag Mechagodzilla.
    67:06
    Because if you're... Just like old times, baby. Yeah. But no, you're absolutely right. Because if you aren't expecting it, and then it happens... Because I remember that, too. Because Ian was like, oh, this game is... He's like, it's okay. And then he saw that, and his thought was, he goes, oh that's pretty fucking cool so cool like so yeah i think that and how how how long has it been since you said that about a stern mech not very oh no you know i'm so proud of them when you think of stern mechs in the last 10 to 12 years super spinner you know yeah you think about different things you think about sparky yeah um you can think about um yeah you know jack in the box from uh errol smith looking at deadpool i don't see anything really deadpool's you know bash toy is it's okay but i love deadpool it's a great game i love it so much um you know you're you're cheating me buddy why i know that figure you gave me i know you cheated me big time i did some research we'll talk about it we'll talk about it we'll talk about the day my buddy is cheating me all right anyway um but yeah the the mechs on there and that that mecca got Mechagodzilla. That fucking Mechagodzilla, bro. It's out of this world. It's so cool. I'm so glad I'm getting one. Zach, please answer my calls. I want to know when I'm getting it. It's early 2022. I know. I call him every day. He's busy. He's got shit going on. He's got high rollers. I know. He's got people that are actually paying him. Not the poor man.
    68:43
    He's like, Drew, I sent you an invoice. You haven't paid me yet. I'm like, yeah? I owe you? What? I'm cute. look at me look at me i'm adorable you know i'm good for it baby zach he is not good for it get that boy's money uh put me on pinball call zach and nicole um but they are a dream to deal with oh they are they're oh see i really do like i didn't tell you about my experience with nicole because you've been out of the out of the loop so you said it like that well so when i when i saw her at at expo right i had to give her your sweaty shirt nope okay i had my mask on and i said hi to her and she goes hi and i was like oh shit but it turns out you know they were setting up she she was tired you know it was a long day and then like her and i connected later it was it was it was great yeah but i was like oh shit she still hates me from two years ago she doesn't seem like the type no no her her and i talked quite a bit at expo and uh we had a great time the lucky guy gets this beautiful sweet just oh yeah she's 10 out of 10 personality beautiful on the inside she's on the outside she's just great and then there's zach that prick no shit fucking zach i love you man that's um just jealousy speaking brother that's just jealousy man so no we we all had a great time at expo and haters make you famous baby it was just it was just great great connecting with them but yeah this is super cool i was bummed that they weren't at mgc because i really wanted to give them a big hug i missed them yeah well so uh mgc once again i'm starting this campaign now it's coming again in april the problem is it's right after texas finball festival it's like a week after a week and a half got it so um like i talked about my last episode i'm going to start campaigning because i want what we had at expo at mgc oh god and not just because it's the home show for me but because i think it's a better show but we need those people here right right because because the games and everyone will agree with this the games at expo sorry rob burke they were bullshit like everyone said no like the the free play you know they let me bring a fireball home edition first of all shame on you guys and uh um but no we were one man's pinball at gmail.com poor man's pinball at gmail we're playing all these dollar games right half of them aren't working they're like in disrepair i mean it was awful but then jersey jack thankfully at pinball expo put up every single one of their games in the free play hall that was cool good for you jersey but other than that like when we went to mgc they had totan you know yeah they had that beautiful f-14 the sorcerer which i bought a sorcerer by the way it's coming next week oh nice william slushler yeah the 80s yeah artwork alone i'm gonna restore that one i'm getting a play field artwork alone can i have the old play field you can nice yeah no that's that's a beautiful game absolutely so someone had a beautiful one there so i was like yeah i'm that's it and i found a really cheap one yeah so yeah i got it it's coming next week um but uh yeah so so the show itself dan lucen great job they they put on an amazing show and there were a lot of people there but like i said the people weren't our people you know they weren't the tribe members so it was just it just was it didn't have the pizzazz if you will sure you know like i said i had a great time i hung out with jeremy schmitz and mike williams and you know what you need to do what's that and we talked about this on the air before we need to have an organized pub crawl associated with mgc propaganda starting now three two one yeah no we ian and i did talk about that and we we didn't go it happened yeah we had a lot of plans we did and we didn't get together this year but yeah pub crawl we could do and the other thing everyone talked about expo you walk out of the hotel you couldn't walk to anything because it's not chicago yeah right right so like you had to get in your car we had to drive an mgc you're downtown milwaukee exactly that's what you know we can have fun we can get the hotel rooms we can do whatever we want do the pub crawl because the pub crawl we'd be doing would be there is no bar close in milwaukee no no they're all open like there is they're open at 6 a.m we're gonna keep going we can introduce you guys the hopper bar is open year round welcome to Ian's bar yeah you'll come to the studio where all the magic happens bro I had to clean Stern great job I loved your booth your set up and I loved your games that came out are we done with this episode? yeah I think we're done with this episode What's inside your butthole? I always wanna know What's inside your butthole? I always wanna know What's inside your butthole? I always wanna know What's inside your butthole? I always wanna know Hmm, what is in there? Maybe a fan That'd be crazy Maybe a crazy suggestion, maybe a dog or stadium, maybe a cat. What's inside your butthole? Wonder what's inside your butthole. I wonder what's inside your butthole. Maybe there's astronauts, maybe there's aliens, all inside your butthole. What's inside your butthole? I always want to know. What's inside your butthole? I always want to know. What's inside your butthole? I always wanna know What's inside your butthole?
    74:33
    Hmm, what is in there? Maybe a purse? Another butthole? That sounds crazy Maybe a flower? What's inside your butthole?
    74:47
    Buttholes are so powerful They're more powerful than me They're more powerful than you The more powerful than coffee, I don't even know what coffee does Wonder what's inside your bowl I wonder what's inside your bowl Maybe there's astronauts, maybe there's aliens All inside your bowl