Inside “Star Wars: Fall of the Empire” w/ John Borg & Ray Day — Full Interview

Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama·video·58m 49s·analyzed·Sep 16, 2025

Analysis

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TL;DR

Borg & Ray Day detail Star Wars design philosophy, mechanics, and code structure in comprehensive interview.

Summary

John Borg and Ray Day discuss the design and code of Star Wars: Fall of the Empire in a detailed interview. They explain the game's approachable layout philosophy, character-based mission structure, mechanical features (AT-AT collapse, Death Star lock, Sarlac pit with spinning cup), and code depth (886 rules). The conversation covers design trade-offs, licensing constraints, playfield real estate management, and upcoming code updates for the AT-AT mechanic.

Key Claims

Star Wars: Fall of the Empire was designed under tight timeline—from roughly one month after Metallica Expo (November/December) through summer release, approximately under one year
high confidence · John Borg states he finished Metallica last fall, worked on line through November, then started Star Wars immediately after
The game has 886 rules lines of code at launch, compared to Return of the Jedi 1983 which had 83
high confidence · Ray Day explicitly states code count as '886' and Borg confirms comparison to classic Return of the Jedi
Character-based mission structure (8 characters: Luke, Lando, Obi-Wan, Chewy, Droids, Vader, Emperor, Falcon) was designed to be more memorable and accessible than planet-based missions
high confidence · Ray Day and Borg discuss how Mike Vinor and Borg's playfield layout naturally led to character-based modes; host notes wife remembers characters but not planet names
Three multiballs in game: Hoth, Light Speed Escape (Falcon), and planned Sarlac pit multiball (not in first release)
high confidence · Ray Day explicitly lists the three multiballs and notes Sarlac pit version coming later as wizard mode or update
AT-AT collapse mechanic being revised post-launch; update planned to add 10-second single-ball grace period after Battle of Hoth multiball ends to allow players to trigger collapse
high confidence · Ray Day states 'it looked like maybe that's a little harder to get to than we were hoping' and describes planned update with 10-second window
Game deliberately designed with approachable playfield and non-punitive shot sequences to appeal to new/casual players while maintaining deep code for advanced players
high confidence · Borg discusses balance of accessibility vs. depth; Ray Day explains no shots require 'six shots to start anything'
Death Star toy was undersized due to tooling release and real estate constraints; Borg would have made it bigger and pushed it back farther with another design pass
high confidence · Borg explicitly states tooling was released and he would revise Death Star size if given another pass

Notable Quotes

“When it's all done and said the software will be very deep and there will be really pretty amazing scoring opportunities um that the more advanced players are really going to dig into and find and exploit.”
John Borg @ ~8:45 — Clarifies design philosophy balancing approachable entry with deep endgame content for advanced players
“I was impressed that Serge from a 19-minute gameplay stream made an hour podcast detailing all the rules in depth and got it like almost 95% accuracy of every detail. So that means we did our job right where we can show you the rules without having to read a rule sheet.”
Ray Day @ ~25:30 — Validates that game design successfully communicates rules through visual/gameplay clarity without documentation
“There was so much planned for the top of the game. As I start to lay it out, I'm like, there's no room for pop bumpers.”
John Borg @ ~35:00 — Explains real estate constraints that led to atypical pop bumper placement and absence of traditional top toys
“I always think for both [casual and tournament] where it's like, okay, is this okay for a tournament? And it's like maybe not, but I can solve that with an adjustment or I can solve it by ramping up the difficulty.”
Ray Day @ ~45:15 — Reveals coding approach to balance competitive integrity with accessibility, setting tournament difficulty separately
“If I would have had another pass at it, I probably would have made it [Death Star] bigger and pushed it back farther.”
John Borg @ ~38:20 — Acknowledges community feedback about Death Star size; indicates design was constrained by tooling timeline and real estate
“I wanted to make sure that influencers can actually see the game and it's not, oh, sorry, you had to hit that three times and this three times... I want to just kind of let you dive in straight into it.”
Ray Day @ ~43:40 — Reveals strategic consideration of content creator experience as factor in initial difficulty tuning
“I don't want to punish people. So you can get to that first multiball just by shooting it up the middle.”

Entities

John Borgperson Ray Dayperson Star Wars: Fall of the EmpiregameMike VinorpersonMetallicagameSerge / Electric Batperson

Signals

?
community_signal: Community analyst Serge extracted 95% accurate rules from single gameplay stream, validating game's visual/mechanical self-documentation; designers cite this as confirmation of successful design communication.
high · Ray Day: 'I was impressed that Serge um from a 19minute gameplay stream, he made an hour podcast detailing all the rules in depth and got it like almost like 95% accuracy of of every detail. So that means we did our job right'
?
competitive_signal: Ray Day codes with explicit awareness of tournament viability; maintains separate difficulty settings for tournament play (forcing harder shots like right ramp Hyperspace Jump) vs. default street settings (allowing easier middle ramp approach).
high · Ray Day: 'for tournaments I'll probably have the harder settings. So on the pro you're forced to hit the right ramp, but for default, you know, on the street, the right ramp's pretty hard. So I didn't want to punish people'
?
design_philosophy: Death Star toy undersized relative to community expectations due to tooling release and playfield real estate constraints; designer acknowledges would revise with additional design pass.
high · Borg: 'I had released tooling. Um, I actually, if I would have had another pass at it, I probably would have made it bigger and pushed it back farther' and explains space allocation to AT-AT, Sarlac pit, hyperspace jump, additional ramps
?
design_philosophy: Pop bumper placement in opposite ends of playfield (rather than traditional top cluster) driven by real estate saturation from other priority toys (Death Star, AT-AT, Sarlac pit, Hyperspace ramp, TIE fighter); tested approach and retained.
high · Borg: 'There was so much planned for the top of the game... there's no room for pop bumpers... at first I had one down at the bottom and then I was like, I'm going to put one on the opposite side and see what it what it shoots like. And uh and it felt really good. So, we just we just went with it'

Transcript

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0:02

Hello. [Music] Alrighty. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good night in some instances. It is 9:00 p.m. over in Chicago. I'm so grateful for you guys jumping on. It is uh 10 a.m. for me down under in Australia and everyone in the UK is in the middle of sleeping. We are not live so you guys can watch this anytime. Uh we have obviously the uh the team from the fantastic Star Wars game that's just been released. Boys, how you going? We're doing great. We both came up for We're doing great. We both came up for air to uh do your show tonight with you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm really appreciative because I mean, I'm really appreciative because I know you guys obviously under the pump and getting hammered and and working around the clock uh to to get this game out and and on the line as well. And I'm sure it's been uh pretty hectic. Correct. Yes, it has. Um I I've been out there uh all week and a good portion of last week and uh I'm just out on the line looking and watching the way they're building things and making sure that uh that everybody's adjusting everything right and training the final testers and uh and then I sign off on games. I usually sign off on the first couple hundred uh games that go out the door. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. My my hectic thing was the week Yeah. My my hectic thing was the week before getting the the code for the packing. So that was my crazy last week which which I was going to say the code which which I was going to say the code I don't think people realize obviously getting the you got schedules for getting a game ready and out but getting that code kind of at a point where uh people tend to be always critiqueful of you know code and being a little bit empty or being not enough and trying to find that balance and happy medium of getting a game to launch where it's uh uh pretty packed. I think your codes are 886 83 for uh Return of the Jedi 1983. 83 for uh Return of the Jedi 1983. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but from what Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but from what I've seen, it seems pretty pretty jam-packed. There's a lot there already. There's a lot there already. It's it's pretty it's pretty amazing. It's it's pretty it's pretty amazing. Yeah. Um which I want to touch on the Yeah. Um which I want to touch on the code and all that in a minute. Um so, where were you guys when you found out that you were doing Star Wars? How how did it come about? Um we just uh I just heard about it. Um, Um we just uh I just heard about it. Um, and I was kind of surprised that, you know, we were going to we were going to we were going to do the Star Wars trilogy again. Uh, really glad we were because, um, you know, those those three episodes are are just the best ever. So, I'm glad that they decided to do it. So, I'm glad that they decided to do it. Um, I found out, uh, probably about a Um, I found out, uh, probably about a month after I finished Metallica. So, that was, you know, maybe a month after Expo last year. Yep. And then uh I started to pick at it Yep. And then uh I started to pick at it and uh then Ray Ray jumped on and and uh we've been just pounding away all all winter and all spring and most of the summer here. That's that's under a year. That's that's under a year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's that's cool. Very Yeah. Wow. That's that's cool. Very impressive. Yeah. I couldn't I couldn't hide it. you know, I couldn't I couldn't hide it. you know, Metallica came, you know, last fall and then, you know, I was out there, you know, on the line, you know, working Metallica after, uh, oh, geez, you know, probably after oh, geez, you know, probably after Halloween, um, you know, into November a little bit and then then we, uh, we started working on the next one right away. So, yeah. Awesome. Look, I I uh I'm a big yeah. Awesome. Look, I I uh I'm a big Star Wars fanatic. I have always found uh the the last one to find be a bit challenging as a game and also I'm not one for complex uh code personally myself. So getting the understanding of the 40 40x multiplier and all that. So for me it was really cool to see something straight away that I felt was approachable um and especially for a theme that is designed to um I mean draw new people in the hobby. I mean if we're not trying to grow pinball with every game then why are we bothering? But, you know, with a game that's such a big theme that will be uh, you know, appealing to anyone from 5 years old all the way to 90 years old that anyone can play the game, you know, and I think, you know, I'm a fan of the layout. I think it's uh um safe and approachable. I don't think there's anything wrong with that in this instance. Um, I think people sometimes expect a little bit more than what, you know, what they see. Um the design did did you have a sense that you wanted something that was a bit like I said a bit more approachable as opposed to being difficult? You know uh when it's all done and said You know uh when it's all done and said the the software will be very deep and there will be really you know uh pretty amazing scoring opportunities um that the more advanced players are really going to you know dig into and find and exploit. Um but when you look at the game you know what to do pretty much. you know, you're shooting the Starlac pit or you're shooting the Death Star to open it up and lock balls and the game just shooting the ball around and making a few shots tells you what you need to do. Um, and uh, I think uh, for a Star Wars Um, and uh, I think uh, for a Star Wars license, you know, something that's going to be everywhere, I think it it did need to be approachable. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things of And I think that's one of the things of the code I really liked from from watching a bit of the streams and then listening to a few people. I listened to Serge from the Electric Bat. He's doing pin towels with Kale Stre like code Jesus. He he just has a way of looking at something and just literally taking it in. Um, one of the things I agreed with him and I I noticed straight away was that it looked like there wasn't that traditional hit the two shots and always hit the scoop to start a mode. Always hit at that particular ramp. I like the fact that there are lots of different areas where a little bit like Bond, right? Correct me. where you can start modes in the scoop and you can start modes over there. Um, talk me through that. I mean, that's probably more a question for Raymond, I guess. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Um, I think part of that was also Yeah. Um, I think part of that was also M MXV, Mike Vinor, he helped in sort of that design and of course John Borg laying out the eight different characters and they just kind of made themselves good for for missions. So, um, it just worked well where it's like, okay, if you want to see a scene featuring a lot of Luke, you you hit the Luke shot. If you want to see a lot of droids action, you hit the droids shot. And um and then in addition to all those modes like uh like you said, there's yeah, like Bond where there's kind of other little mode trees like the Sarlac pit and the Vader stuff and the Falcon features. Um but you can kind of swoop in and out of them as you please and it it's different every time. Um and nothing is ever like, you know, six shots to start anything. It's always pretty right there for you. Yeah. which again I think you know um it Yeah. which again I think you know um it was very smart leveraging the characters because we are nostalgic we're attached to the characters right we we connect with the characters um I think doing the planets I was something I always struggled with a little bit because it's like yeah Hoth is great like Tatooine doesn't might not mean anything to some people they might not even remember the name of the planets if they're not huge Star Wars fans right um my my wife loves Star Wars but she's um my my wife loves Star Wars but she's not a huge fan of Star Wars Um, but she wouldn't remember the planet names, but she remembers the characters. So, I think that's a really smart way of of doing the layout and the the code. Um, and uh, you know, you can just watch it and understand that you got to hit those shots to activate the um um the multiball in Hoth or do the um the falcon ramp, which is an awesome mech. It reminds me a lot of the Lord of the Rings um uh ringshot. Um, so yeah, look, I think it's a great way of doing it and I think it's a it's uh it has so much longevity in a home um location as well. I was impressed that that Serge um from I was impressed that that Serge um from a 19minute gameplay stream, he made an hour podcast detailing all the rules in depth and got it like almost like 95% accuracy of of every every detail. So that means that means we did our job right where we can show you the rules without having to read a real rule sheet. And that that made me really, you know, heart heart warmed my heart. Yeah. Sergey is unique and and he always Yeah. Sergey is unique and and he always touches on things like experience and breath where you want pinball moments. Uh and I wouldn't be surprised if someone offers him a job at some point to be honest. But he uh he's very good at detailing um you know the the ins and outs of games. Um, so multiballs, there's three multiballs in the game, correct? Um, Um, yeah, the light speeded Hoth and um the yeah, the light speeded Hoth and um the one in the Sarlac. one in the Sarlac. Yeah. So that's that's um that's not in Yeah. So that's that's um that's not in the current uh release, but it'll it'll be like um like a wizard mode or accessible later. But yeah, there is a plan for for one of them in the Sarlife pit to be a multiball. Um but for right now, it's the three main toys of the game, right? You got the Death Star, the ATD at Sorry, I know that I I I'll go back and forth. It's a whole thing. We're we're we're trying to get it right. Um Well, yeah. What's funny is I was just Well, yeah. What's funny is I was just on a live stream with Kerry Hardy and he said, uh at someone called him out and it started a a whole 10-minute segue about what this thing should be called. Like I was like, "Okay, we call it Like I was like, "Okay, we call it addat." Um so yes, you got the addat, you've got the Death Star, and then you've got the Starlac pee. Correct. Uh the Falcon the light speeded escape. Yeah. Sorry. The um Yeah. Y um now with Yeah. Sorry. The um Yeah. Y um now with the uh Jaba pit with the spinning cup. It's been a while since we've seen a spinning cup. What was the idea behind that? Uh we wanted to make a pit. Um and uh Uh we wanted to make a pit. Um and uh and I figured that was definitely the best way to do it. And I thought it would be really fun with the ball spinning in there that would pick a feature for you. Yeah. And that that's randomized that Yeah. And that that's randomized that feature depending on when it lands or can you stop it with the action button? So I I put in Yeah, I put in a way to So I I put in Yeah, I put in a way to stop it, but um you could probably turn that off if you if you want the randomness. And also it's nice if someone doesn't know about the button, it will just choose for them based on when it when it falls. Yeah, it's uh the there's such an falls. Yeah, it's uh the there's such an interesting kind of opinion on uh the cups because people find some people find it slows the game down. I guess that would probably more tournament players and stuff, but uh I there's something nostalgic. I'm a sucker for plastic ramps. I like anything plastic because it just has nostalgia written all over it for me. When I saw that, I was like, I really that was a part of the game I really liked. Um and along with the the Falcon ramp because I was just like, what a moment where the ball disappears in in the back of the game. Um Um the the Darth Vader modes. So, is the scoop used just for that or is that mysteries as well and stuff like that? Um, well, real quick going back to the Um, well, real quick going back to the the the Sarlac ramp. So, that's why we have Salacious Crumb drop target that can go up and down. So, that way if you know we don't want you to keep if you know we don't want you to keep parking the ball in there, we can block it for you or if we have something really good lit there, we can drop it. And um so that was really we've really pushed for that to have that in the game. And uh well actually I'm glad you pointed that well actually I'm glad you pointed that out because I was going to touch on that and I forgot. So that standup target that basically is in front of that ramp. One of the things I really like about that is that that shot then feels different every time because you got to hit that twice to get it down. Then you hit the ramp and then you can do the action. But so there's such a there's a lot of longevity in that shot and it will feel different even though it's one ramp if that makes sense. Yep. It just gives me so many options as a coder to, you know, do I want you bashing the drop target or I want you spinning the cup and, you know, it's so I was really happy with um with that design. Um and I believe you've got to spin the cup and I believe you've got to spin the cup 10 times to do an add ball. Is that correct? Yep. Yeah. So, if you're in a multiball Yep. Yeah. So, if you're in a multiball um and you can throw a ball up there um once you do it enough, the button will turn green and then it'll play a little clip of the thermal detonator and then you can add a ball. Um but but yeah, anyway, back to uh you asked about the Darth Vader scoop. Yes. Yes. So yeah, uh Borgie made this cool So yeah, uh Borgie made this cool menacing area with lots of red and and um you know the word Vader and the big sculpt and so that's where you're going to start. So you get the Dark Side Mystery Awards. Um, and uh, there's also the Darth Vader uh, Darth Vader features where once you go in there, the playfield turns red um, and then you hit a shot and then you start one of the iconic um, Darth Vader scenes. Y. So, um, basically when you're in one of So, um, basically when you're in one of those modes, everything else is kind of on pause a little bit, but I I was kind of fighting to struggle like, okay, you you don't want to be able to stack anything else with it because you want to hear Vader's cool lines because he's he's just so fun to listen to and and watch. Um, so I didn't want the modes to drag Um, so I didn't want the modes to drag on and I I wanted them to be kind of simple where you're kind of in them and out of them. So, it's kind of like um the Spectre weapons on James Bond. Um, so it's more like two or three shots. So, if you hit the Death Star, you'll start, you know, that scene um where they're discussing the Death Star 2 plans and maybe two or three shots to Death Star and then then you're done. Um and then of course, because I like the risk and reward, you can also kind of shoot the scoop again to kind of boost that value. So, you can either try to kind of get out of it or you can shoot the scoop. Um or you can just time out entirely. So, if you start a Darth Vader thing and you're just not in the mood or maybe you don't hit the shot fast enough, um then the playfield will go back to normal and you'll have to hit the inlanes again to re-qualify uh Darth Vader. So, it's kind of like a cool thing that will just kind of happen and then now you're kind of on the dark side for a little bit. Um and so that that's kind of how that's integrated. Um I don't know if those are actually in for first pack. Um but they're they're basically right there. So that that's something to look forward to. Um, one of the things I really liked was Um, one of the things I really liked was the the artwork here where the emperor is sitting. You've got these um the death star classic interior the the little inserts which you guys the the little inserts which you guys are actually using to light up. Ironically, they also match the expression lighting. I never really realized that till now. Um, but the um is that are they like for a mode indicator to show you how deep you are in the mode or what are they actually being used for those lights? Uh which ones? These ones here that I'm pointing These ones here that I'm pointing blue the little blue windows above the blue the little blue windows above the uh Luke and Darth. Yeah, those are the um so those actually Yeah, those are the um so those actually correspond to the eight character missions. So when you start a character mission, they'll it'll pulse the corresponding one and then when you complete a character mission successfully, it'll turn solid. And um based on pulsing and solids, your And um based on pulsing and solids, your multiball jackpots will be double or triple. So on on those shots and we'll also when you're in multiball we pulse the uh the main big rectangle RGB that has the characters painted on it. Um so like in the Luke lane you can see Um so like in the Luke lane you can see there's a Luke um drawing. drawing. Yeah those ones. So so the windows will Yeah those ones. So so the windows will always be there to kind of show your progress of like how much you've done in the game. And then during balls um we'll also flash the characters to show you like hey you've played a Chewy mode so this ramp is double jackpots. Um, so you can really boost your multiball scoring if you do good in the uh in the missions. Um, I I was really intrigued by seeing Um, I I was really intrigued by seeing the the two pop bumpers being basically directly opposite each other and and creating something quite unique because, you know, we've seen pop bumpers be where slings are and we've seen them be like really close to the flippers. This creates because obviously being a fan layout where everything's at the back of the game. Having them right there tends to create a little bit of havoc, but in a way where it creates uh it makes a a fan layout which some people I guess find a little bit easy possibly more than havoc. It actually gets the more than havoc. It actually gets the ball going back and forth and and you hit the the Stormtrooper target a lot and you go into scoop a lot off them. Yeah. Yeah. They don't They don't they don't really fire the ball out on they don't really fire the ball out on you very often, if at all. Except for me in the gameplay stream. It Except for me in the gameplay stream. It embarrassed me. did it. It's always the way when you're on It's always the way when you're on stream, you're always like I had my best ball. Um I had unboxed the game and had my best ball and then I started recording and I literally had the worst ball of my life on the game. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I really like the location of So, but I really like the location of those pop bumpers because I think it just creates some some havoc but in a good way where it's basically just doing something unique with the ball as opposed to just using slings because you could have just used slings as well, right? So, Um, was there another thought on why you wanted to use those? Because it makes another shot. There was so much There was so much There was so much There was so much planned for the top of the game. As I start to lay it out, I'm like, there's no room for pop bumpers. I mean, and I, you know, maybe I could have put bumpers somewhere with no top lanes, but to put that takes up a lot of real estate and I had a lot of things to to to fit and I had a lot of things to to to fit in the game. So, uh, yeah. So, you know, at first I had I had one uh down at the bottom and then I was like, I'm going to put one on the opposite side and see what it what it shoots like. And uh and it felt really good. So, we just we we just went with it. Went with it. And I mean, you're famous Went with it. And I mean, you're famous for your cluster of pop bumpers, which I got to say kill me half the time. Like Rush Rush LE is one of my favorite layouts of yours. Um and it's a risk and reward that I really enjoy, but god I swear sometimes I have such bad luck with it. Um I think there was a lot of rumors that Sorry. Sometimes it comes out of there pretty Sometimes it comes out of there pretty quick. Oh yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. And Oh yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. And there was a lot of rumors people saying, "Oh, you know, John might do like a a cluster of pops again." And I think this really spun people out not not seeing that. Um we've seen games come out recently with no pop bumpers. And I feel that that kind of you when you don't know like with King Kong doesn't have a pop bumper and you kind of miss it, but then you kind of don't at the same time. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Um, so, um, the Death Star lock, so the so, um, the Death Star lock, so the Death Star with the obviously there's a homage there to Darice that you did, I'm assuming. Mhm. Yes. Mhm. Yes. Um, was that something that you were Um, was that something that you were like, it has to be in there straight away? Was that the first? Yeah, I definitely wanted to open up the Yeah, I definitely wanted to open up the Death Star and and lock balls inside of it. Kind of an homage to the old game. Yeah, if you will. So, but the old game Yeah, if you will. So, but the old game you knocked up, you hit the target, you opened up the Death Star, you shot one ball in, then the multiball started, but I wanted to put all three balls inside of it. Yeah. Yeah. And that is that using it looks like the And that is that using it looks like the very similar ramp to like the Rush where it's that kind of about the same width as well, isn't it? Uh, it's about the same size, but it's Uh, it's about the same size, but it's uh, you know, it's got walls built into it and uh, you know, like unlike Rush, this one doesn't move at all. Um, and then I wanted to put some Um, and then I wanted to put some lights. I didn't have lights to, you know, I didn't have real estate for lights out in front of it for the ball lock, so I just put them on the ramp floor. Yeah. Yeah. And which looks great. And which looks great. It's right in your face. You can't miss It's right in your face. You can't miss it. You you know where you're at all the time. So, yeah. Did Did you try to put a bigger yeah. Did Did you try to put a bigger death star in? I know that's been one of the the critiques is that people wish the death star was bigger. I uh during the course of the project, I I uh during the course of the project, I had released tooling. Um, I actually, if I would have had another pass at it, I probably would have made it bigger and pushed it back farther. Y Y um, um, but it's just a it's a nice collage of but it's just a it's a nice collage of Star Wars, you know, toys and things like the ADAT. When we started to work on the ADAT, I found a a cast iron, you know, solid toy, and I cut them the the the midsection of the legs off, and I made these little um these little slotted shaped uh sheet metal parts, put holes on each side. And I made the the legs move so that I could, you know, uh so I could move it into a collapsed position and this motorized it from the back, pushed it forward, you know, watched it drop down. Um, you know, so that was a, you know, a lot of fun. That took up some real estate. And then, you know, the Death Star and the jump ramp and I needed a Sarlac pit. And then I started looking at things like that. I'm like, well, I want another ramp over here, too. And yeah, yeah, you know, and we were going to put an you know, and we were going to put an X-wing on the right ramp. Um, we ended up uh using the TIE Fighter instead. Um, so, you know, by the time we got to, you know, all the way across the board, it was like there was there was no room for pop bumpers or top lanes or anything else up on top. Um, it's pretty it's pretty full. Yeah. Yeah. I even used behind the back panel, you I even used behind the back panel, you know, I use that real estate, too. So, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the other yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the other thing, right? If the Death Star was bigger, like Yeah. It would have been great, but I think it probably would have taken a bit off the back panel because you've got that hyperspace jump. Uh, and that lights up really nice as Uh, and that lights up really nice as well. But you made an interesting point when you said there's a good collage of stuff. I think as much as everyone wants bigger toys and stuff like that, you it's all about finding that balance. Uh, and I'm sure there's bigger jabbers and there's bigger, you know, tie fighters and stuff like that. Um, was was there an amount of toys that you wanted in? Did you have like a checklist or did you did the license want certain stuff in the game at all? Yeah, you know, we talked about the Yeah, you know, we talked about the Sarlac pit and we just wanted to bring some things from the Battle of Hoth into the game. Um, so we did have we had uh, you know, a few meetings with with licensing and uh, we just kind of put a bunch of things in a hat. Um, and then I looked at it and, you know, figured out what we would make, you know, what what I could make work and I had already plans for, um, you know, especially the Death Star, um, in the game and we just went from there. Yeah, it's um, look, I think it's come, Yeah, it's um, look, I think it's come, again, like I said, for a game that's um, accessible and safe and friendly for people, I think it's it's worked really well, and I think people are going to love hitting this um, uh, Falcon shot with the ramp. Uh that in the premium is starts off down. Correct. Yes. Mhm. Yes. Mhm. And do you hit like a standup target for And do you hit like a standup target for then to activate that to go up or you just shoot the ramp itself? And I or you just shoot the ramp itself? And I think if you shoot the right ramp it goes up too, Ray. Yeah. So um on the premium um well on Yeah. So um on the premium um well on the pro so yeah on the premium it starts down. If you hit it when it's down it'll make it go up. Or you can hit the right ramp and it'll also make it go up. I um I did that for a couple reasons. one because the pro um the for the pro you hit the right ramp to make it go up and so I wanted the premium you could have the option you can either hit the harder right ramp but it's safer or the big wide middle one but then you got to be ready for it so that the premium kind of gives you so that the premium kind of gives you the options of how do I want to make the jump um to hyperspace um and then um I think for the first multiball you um I think for the first multiball you just shoot it up the middle a few times and then that can get you into your first um first feature Um the light. So how do you activate that multiball on So how do you activate that multiball on the uh Falcon? It's just five shots back to back or Yep. Yep. Yeah. So once it's up then I think it's Yeah. So once it's up then I think it's three shots and then one more to to start the light speeded escape sequence and then during the light speeded escape you can either build your jackpots with all the shots or you can shoot it one more time to start multiball. So I think it's five shots total if you're just you know going up the middle the middle. And so yeah, if you and on the middle. And so yeah, if you and on the pro it's the same way. So um for tournaments I'll probably have the harder settings. So on the pro you're forced to hit the right ramp, but for default, you know, on the street, the right ramp's pretty hard. So I didn't want to punish people. So you can get to that first multiball just by by shooting it up the middle. Do you find because you you're obviously Do you find because you you're obviously a great player rate. Um, and do you find sometimes you've got to kind of put a different hat on when you're coding games because of the fact that you do do tournament play as well? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I always um I I think Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I always um I I think for for both where it's like, okay, um is this okay for a tournament? And it's like uh maybe not, but I can solve that with an adjustment or I can solve it by ramping up the difficulty. But I I I I was really wanting to start, you know, where it's very approachable at the beginning. Um, and then kind of solve the any tournament or exploits or stuff kind of later. Um, because we we another thing that kind of influenced that was we had all these influencers coming to play the game. I wanted to make sure that, you know, they can actually see the game and it's not, oh, sorry, you had to hit that three times and this three times and, oh, you almost did this one thing. It's like, no, I want to just kind of let you dive in straight into it. into it. Um, so we'll talk about the layout. Um, so we'll talk about the layout. Obviously, we know it's a fan layout and whatnot. So, you've got a left orbit and a right orbit. I'm glad they're spinners. I'm a sucker for spinners. I'd have spinners everywhere if I could. Um, but um then you've got this left shot here, which basically goes into a buck that comes up the into here. Right. That is uh how you start the multiball. Um so, you've got to hit that four times uh three times and then one more time. Correct. Uh I think just three. So Uh I think just three. So yeah, the the number is underneath the yeah, the the number is underneath the um the light just Yeah, the it's basically um uh you hit Yeah, the it's basically um uh you hit the droid's target, the the ad at target to light lock and then one, two, three. Um and I was really happy. You know, me and Bor worked to make sure this playfield explained itself. You know, we're like, what should we say? Well, let's say light lock. Okay, what should we say over here? Well, let's say one, two, three. What should we say on the desk? Lock one, lock two, multiball. Um, you know, you have all these character combos so that every shot if you don't know the picture of the character, you know, you're like, "Oh, I I guess that's uh that must be Lando because it says Lando." You know, that's um you know, Luke because it says Luke, that's Obi-Wan says Obi-Wan. So, everything is very cohesive. I was really happy with our collaboration help. I um one thing I wanted to ask you which I couldn't work out from watching anyone's video is the when the the addat drops and collapses is that when the multiball starts or is that every time you lock a ball? Uh, so when you're kind of advancing towards it, towards the multiball, like anytime anytime you hit him to like light lock, he'll kind of he'll move a little bit and then when you're in multiball and you're getting you're hitting him for double jackpots, he'll move a little bit more and then once you spell at during the multiball, the Luke lane lights for the super. So you shoot it in there and then it'll kind of hold the ball. It'll go like G and then kick it out and then as it's going around, that's when it does the full fall down. Um, and right now, um, it looked like maybe that's a little harder to get to than we were hoping. Um, so I think we're going to have a, um, at the end of the Battle of Hoth at the end of the Battle of Hoth multiball, there'll be like a last chance. So you'll have like 10 seconds after the multiball to hit the loop and just cash in whatever value super you have, whether or not you know you have it lit or not. Um, that way everyone can see if if they can make the shot within the 10 seconds, then they can send the AT-AT crashing down, which I think because it's always that balance of because it's always that balance of trying to find, you know, uh, I'm a huge ambassador for pinball moments and trying to find, well, how do we hold the ball to allow someone to see this happen, right? And so, in multiball, when you right? And so, in multiball, when you get the super jackpot, it's kind of hard to to watch it happen because you got the other balls going. Yeah. Great. Um, I think the best of Yeah. Great. Um, I think the best of both worlds is, you know, if you're kicking butt in multiball and you can crash it down, that's great. Um, then you can start working on another one, but I think having that single ball moment afterward, um, where you shoot it in there and then now it it holds it and you can't do anything but watch it. Um, so I think that'll be a really cool thing to look forward to in in an update soon. Um, and you touched on the light lock. That is uh so when you've uh what happens when you've hit that and it lights lock. What can you hit that standup target for after that? So that standup um is is the droid's So that standup um is is the droid's shot. So you can see R2 and C3PO on there. Um so if you've lit a force mission um you can hit that to start their mission. Um, and like I said, the um, you know, if you complete that mission you know, if you complete that mission or if you do a combo, so so if you hit like the right ramp, you'll see that yellow um, droids insert there. Um, see all those yellow yellow lights? Those are the rebel combos. Yep. Yep. Um, so you can actually hit that as a Um, so you can actually hit that as a combo. And now the droids will help you in your in your multiballs. Um, so you'll get to the super jackpots faster. Um, and then in addition, when you're in a forest mission, um, sometimes that shot is lit and and when it is lit, it's usually pretty valuable because it's kind of dangerous. So, you know, as you're tackling these force missions, sometimes you'll be tempted to hit that at even though you might already have lock lit, but there's a big award there waiting for you to to collect. So, we kind of use that um risk and reward for the more dangerous shots, pay out the more more points. Um, cool. So, we touched on the the Um, cool. So, we touched on the the death star. Oh, one thing I was going to ask, John. Um, I actually like the idea that you use the Death Star, too, where it's the construction of the Death Stars nearly finished. Was there a reason why you went that way? Just because we've always seen the other one? Yeah, because we've always seen the Yeah, because we've always seen the other one. And uh, you know, when we we asked for a model of this uh from Disney and they really didn't have anything that, you know, that we could work with. that, you know, that we could work with. So, um, so we modeled it ourselves and then, uh, George actually took the surface from the the Death Star one model they sent us and he kind of wrapped it and put all the detail on it. Um, so a lot in a lot of cases, uh, you know, uh, we're making our own, um, our own models for the for the molded parts um, you know, whenever we can. um you know like Jaba was was sculpted um you know by a by an actual sculptor. Um but uh yeah we're trying to pick away at you know some of these models ourselves like when uh like on the rush game the time machine um Elliot Elliot made the model for the time machine. Yeah. I I like that it's the the Yeah. I I like that it's the the glad we used too. It's it's cool, you know, and you know, you can see the side all blown out and if you look around, if you're standing on the side of the game, you get a you get a lot, you know, you get you get to see a lot more of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I think I've got a really good Actually, I think I've got a really good image on that. Um, where is it? Open that up. Pretty sure I had it. Um, I've got to close that one first, don't I? So, um, this is probably a better shot. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, you can see a little more of it Yeah, you can see a little more of it there. Yeah, there's a lot of detail. Um the Yeah, there's a lot of detail. Um the thing I was going to ask was the hyperspace um that window where you've got the the stars moving. Is that like in behind that or is that something that is dropping? There's a trough behind the back panel. There's a trough behind the back panel. Yeah. Yeah. And uh And uh you know when I saw the back panel art, you know when I saw the back panel art, I thought, "Wow, I'm going to carry that into the tunnel." into Yeah. into Yeah. just to make it look cool. And then I, just to make it look cool. And then I, you know, I put some lighting behind it. I put a couple flashlights behind it and I lit up the word hyperspace above it with an insert behind the plastic. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, you know, and after I after I And uh, you know, and after I after I put that together, you know, we just, um, we just printed it out on paper and, you know, put it inside and I was like, "Yeah, that we're going to do that for sure. That looks really nice." As opposed to just stainless. Um, and then there's a couple standup Um, and then there's a couple standup targets there. Um, was the what was your comment on the multipliers on this game? So, how do you actually uh cuz I think that was one thing that um Serge couldn't work out in the video was the multipliers. Um so, the pop bumpers are the they're Um so, the pop bumpers are the they're called they're the ion cannons. So, um in the UI you'll see like um how charged up your ion cannons are. And once you've hit the pop bumpers enough, then any of the eight shots has a Rebel logo. So, I don't know if you have a playfield picture with the um Yeah, a little bit lower on the Yeah, a little bit lower on the playfield. Um yeah. yeah. They're white inserts with a red logo on them. Let's see.

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Oh, yeah. on the pop bubber cap. on the pop bubber cap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So, that's um that's your your shot Yep. So, that's um that's your your shot multiplier. And so that's kind of the riskreward because um when you're in multiball, it won't light shot multipliers. So you got to do that before you go into multiball. Um and it can pay off pretty well because some in multiball, especially like Battle of Hoth, if you put a multiplier on the droid on the, you know, add it. Um that's your double jackpot. So you Um that's your double jackpot. So you can really cash that in. Or if you put it on the Luke Vuck and you manage to make it all the way to the super, then you get, you know, a double super. um you know in the hyperspace the falcon modes your supers are looping up the middle um so I try to make every shot you know tempting to to put it on and uh if if there is a shot that's left out you know I'll try to try to fix that in in an update because yeah it's always more interesting when you it's always more interesting when you have different choices um so we we spoke about the slack pick um so we we spoke about the slack pick before that obviously um it spins around and it randomizes or you can choose so that's great we touched on that the um the ramp with the tire fighter That basically is just a ramp back to your right flipper, correct? Down this wire form. Yes. Mhm. Yes. Mhm. Yep. Is there any what Yep. Is there any what kind of kind of Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. So, you're you're kind of adding Yeah. So, you're you're kind of adding TIE fighter ramps to your your collection and and you can start um hyperspace loops or light extra balls when and maybe other things in the future, you know, when you're shooting that ramp. Um, so it's just kind of a a a thing a side quest where you're collecting these things and uh it's a great way to transfer the ball to the right flipper to set up all the rebel combos because a lot of the rebel combos you require you to set them up with a one shot and then you know hit the the droid target or the death star to put the um to finish the combos. Um and then you got your right orbit Um and then you got your right orbit which is with the spinner like we touched on before. Is there a magnet at the back at all that grabs the ball to hold it or anything like that in this game? No, just the only magnet is at the uh at the bottom. Yep. Yep. The force magnet. The force magnet. Yeah. So, these these spinners, they Yeah. So, these these spinners, they they're so smooth. They go all the way around and they put the ball right back um to your flippers and you can you can crank those things. I think Borg bragged two or three in a row. Hit them three times in a row and the Hit them three times in a row and the ball's going 100 miles an hour. It's amazing. I've seen some pretty fast gameplay to I've seen some pretty fast gameplay to be honest on those orbits. I was watching the boys from Wild Dog Arcade and they were he was ripping that left orbit. It was coming back. so fast. So yeah, the whole the whole game is fast. yeah, the whole the whole game is fast. It it really it does play fast, which I mean for a Star Wars theme is uh which I mean for a Star Wars theme is uh it's kind of a good homage to the fact that there there's a lot of speed in the game, right? So in the films um the the force I mean obviously what's um the the force I mean obviously what's a Star Wars game without force a force element or you know a magnet save which uses magnets and the force. Uh th this uh was uh something I really liked was this element where you can chuck it into the um back into the shooter lane. Um was that something you you'd pushed hard for you like I had to have some force in here? Uh, you know, I I was sitting and chatting with Rey and and uh the new pro programmer Andrew and uh MXV, also known as Mike Vinor, and Mike said, "Wouldn't it be cool to and Mike said, "Wouldn't it be cool to put a a flipper or a a magnet in between the flippers?" And I go, "Yeah." I go, "We could do that." You know, because we were we were talking about Golden Eye uh from the Ward Peton game and he put a magnet between the flippers and he would magnet between the flippers and he would catch the ball from either out lane and then throw it right up between the flippers. So, yeah. So this game's got a five lane yeah. So this game's got a five lane bottom. So the flippers are offset offset. So when you look at the plan view of the game, you can see I put a big indentation in like the return guide on the one side and that actually settles the ball so that it's rolling against the bottom arch as it comes down to that magnet. Oh, so on the left you can see to the Oh, so on the left you can see to the left of the left flipper bump out on the plastic on the return lane. Yes. Yes. So there's metal underneath there. So So there's metal underneath there. So when the ball would drain on that side, that that part since the flippers are offset, that lane is very wide. So I wanted to contain it and I wanted So I wanted to contain it and I wanted it to feed nice and smoothly to the magnet. Yeah. Yeah. Um so uh just experimenting with it. Um Um so uh just experimenting with it. Um I noticed that, you know, one time the the the ball went out the left side and I hit the button and it went up the right side and it went all the way up the out lane and hit the mini post. Yep. In in the outline. In in the outline. So, you just remove that. So, you just remove that. Wow. So, I just cut a section of that Wow. So, I just cut a section of that wire form out that you see right there on the right side of the picture. I just cut it and, you know, made the wire form shorter on the LE so that the ball could sneak back out into the shooter lane. And we were talking about putting a one-way gate on it. I'm like, "No, I want it to, you know, I want it to be, you know, mysterious." And yeah, yeah, you know, I didn't want anybody to see you know, I didn't want anybody to see anything over there and look at it and go, "Oh, what's that?" you know, um, but, uh, uh, it works great. And, you know, when the ball comes out on the on the right out lane, if you let the ball, uh, roll off the arch and bounce off the rail, the the the the stainless flat rail that's near the out hole, it actually will bounce back up toward that magnet and you hit the button into It's almost like a death save, but It's almost like a death save, but you're back out on the playfield. It's a death save without having to nudge the machine because you just hit the machine. Death save. Yeah. Yeah. So, with the magnet, we know that when So, with the magnet, we know that when you rip the spinners that on your display will light up the Jedi word, and that is your energy level for the the Magna save. Yeah. So, I was trying to I was trying Yeah. So, I was trying to I was trying to figure out in my head, we had these two cool ideas of the golden eye save and the fling save. I'm like, well, how do we do both without it being confusing or whatnot? So, I had the idea of, you know, as you get stronger with the force, you know, if you get halfway through Jedi, then anytime you go down out lane, you can pulse the button for as many letters of you ha as you have. So, if you have two letters, you can do it twice. If you have three letters, you can do it three times. So, if your first one doesn't quite make it to the lane, then you can do what Borg said, which is let it come back, bounce, and then use your other two to try to try to fling it back into play that way. So, there's a lot of play there. We actually saw in the gameplay stream. I think Andrew had one. He brought it back from the dead so fast and so so high up. It was it was crazy. It looked like the out hole had a kicker that just sent it back. Um, so that's that's like level one. And Um, so that's that's like level one. And that that level is not available on the pro because the pro is all or nothing. You spell Jedi all the way and then if you hit the button before it hits the trough, then you get it saved. If you don't, then you don't get it saved. Um, but then once you spell Jedi on the premium, um, hitting the button, you can hit the button at any time. It doesn't have to go down an out lane. So once you have all of Jedi, you can actually save it down the middle as well if you're fast enough. Yeah. And that will energize it full power for And that will energize it full power for like three whole seconds, try to get it to settle, and then it'll attempt to throw it back into play. And if if for some reason it it doesn't quite make it, um, you still have the three letters in Jedi, so you can try to, you know, save it again and again. Um, but there's also, um, an option for a ball save. So, even if that doesn't work, you can get the ball back. And there's these this really cool Jedi calibration menu in the test menu. So, you go to the device test and it will give you a couple parameters and you can tweak and run the test over and over and get it so that it's it, you know, because each game is going to vary just a little bit with um, the I don't know, the physics of the the I don't know, the physics of the magnet and the insert and stuff. Um, so we're going to try to, you know, tweak it as so that you don't have to do anything. We're going to do that as best as possible. Um, but even if it doesn't quite make it, you can still try to save it. And I actually think that's more satisfying where you are timing it to try to, you know, get it back back into play. Yeah. Yeah. Um, this is one of the games I've Um, this is one of the games I've realized that doesn't actually say shoot again anywhere. Is that because obviously you're going to have to ride that on Yoda somewhere? Yoda's chest. Yoda's chest. Yeah. So he just pierces you with his Yeah. So he just pierces you with his eyes. His eyes are really really uh looking deep into your soul in this artwork. That's for sure. Um he's quite intense. It gives it reminds me a lot of the owl on Rush actually. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. I think Gorg Borg must like the I think Gorg Borg must like the He must like the eyes. He must like the eyes. Yeah, the the bad eyes in Metallica. Yeah, the the bad eyes in Metallica. Yeah, Yeah, I think you did it on on almost all your I think you did it on on almost all your games. Rush had owl eyes. Metallica had bad eyes. Guardians had uh uh someone died. Star-Lord's eyes. Star-Lord's eyes. Starlord's eyes. Starlord's eyes. Starlord's eyes. Yeah. Starlord's eyes. Yeah. Starlord's eyes. Yeah. Starlord's eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, look, I I thought that Yeah. Yeah. No, look, I I thought that was really cool. It's uh it's the the force save is uh something that especially I can I know my son is going to want to try and like do all the time. Um so I'm sure you're probably going to have to put in one point like a mode where you hold the flipper and all you can do is just force saves. Yeah. in the in the Jedi calibration in Yeah. in the in the Jedi calibration in the test mode, you can do that. I mean, you you use the you use the service menu button, but you can um you can keep trying it yourself to try and I saw Borg on the factory today, you know, making sure that that magnet was working right. So, yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm sure my son's going Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm sure my son's going to make me do that uh quite a bit. Um how was your obviously working with Disney has its challenges, I'm sure. Um and and pros and cons. Uh I I'm assuming they obviously wanted to nominate their artist to do their the artwork. Uh and then using an artist that doesn't do pinball artwork. Uh cuz it's not like drawing on a piece of paper. It's quite complex because there's inserts and everything. Did you find that that was a little bit challenging? Was that your first time experiencing that? Uh no. This artist has done art for us Uh no. This artist has done art for us before. He he made uh this is Vince. Um he did the uh he made the uh Dungeons and Dragons artwork. So was he approved by Disney though or So was he approved by Disney though or did you Oh yeah, Oh yeah, that was Yeah, because there was a video that was Yeah, because there was a video I was watching where it was like it was a Disney approved artist, but I think maybe they're just referring to the fact that Vince was approved by Disney as opposed to Disney nominated them. Yeah. No. Um I was wondering in the Yeah. No. Um I was wondering in the beginning if Disney was gonna, you know, was going to ask us to use a specific artist. Um, so, but they they trust us. So, we've so, but they they trust us. So, we've worked with them. Oh, yeah. You've done plenty of games, Oh, yeah. You've done plenty of games, that's for sure. Um, look, I I like I was saying in the live stream that I do like the fact that the game isn't loaded with inserts. I think that can be I find Kong a little bit intimidating in that sense because there's a lot of inserts on the game. Um, this does have a lot of inserts, but I this does have a lot of inserts, but I feel like they're they're kind of hidden well and they're not they're they're in such symmetry that it just feels good. Um, yeah. You know, the window inserts, they're inserts, but you wouldn't even notice them because they just fit with the artwork so well. Fit with the artwork. Correct. Yeah. Fit with the artwork. Correct. Yeah. Which I think is that balance of, you know, you need inserts obviously for modes and stuff like that, but trying to find that balance is important. I find some games just have like way too many. Um, and this ironically looks like it has like a third less than what Kong does, but like you said, it's just probably very well uh hidden. Um, I was just trying to see. I had a few questions from people. Um, oh, upper playfields, lower play fields. Was there any idea of at one point to introduce like a lower or an upper playfield at all in the design? Nope, not on this one. Nope, not on this one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Oh, one thing I wanted to mention about Oh, one thing I wanted to mention about the uh when you're using the uh the force magnet. Yeah. Here's a If you're looking at the Yeah. Here's a If you're looking at the plan view and you're looking straight down at the out hole, um there's a little bracket that sticks out from the arch and when the ball comes and it hits that little bracket, this is like a little nub sticking out of the arch. When it hits that, that's a real good time to hit the the action button to get the ball to go out to the Yeah, there's there's a perfect sweet Yeah, there's there's a perfect sweet spot because the magnet pulses for a certain amount of time, which is adjustable, but by by default, it if you do it too late, then the magnet will actually grab it and kind of stop it, and then you'll have to do it again to try to fling it. If you do it too early, a week, a week, right? If you do it too early, it'll be right? If you do it too early, it'll be too weak. You do it too late, then it it won't fling. it'll just kind of stop and then you have to do it again. Um, so the sweet spot like like Borg said is right when it hits that that's when the ball has the least amount of kind of kinetic energy going downward because it's like bouncing and that's the perfect time to send it out into the uh right shooter lane. Um, okay. That's cool. That's a good tip Um, okay. That's cool. That's a good tip actually because a few people had asked I wonder if it was all about timing and and how successful that um force grabb was going to be. Um, yeah. And the better you do, the better. yeah. And the better you do, the better. So, it helps with the right outland save and it also helps with the the middle save because the less energy it has when you grab it, the less wobbly it'll be and the more it'll be able to kind of center it and then do its thing. Push it up, do its thing. Push it up, do its thing. Um, Jabber's tail with the ball. Was Um, Jabber's tail with the ball. Was that a cheeky way of creating like a a ball trap? Uh, you know what? I um when I when I Uh, you know what? I um when I when I actually at some point in time you're going to see some of the prototype things that I cobbled together and uh I draw really good stick people and uh I draw really good stick people and I and my job of the hut um was and I and my job of the hut um was really it's pretty humorous. People would probably laugh if they saw it but I I kind of roughed it out and I curled the tail around the back. I and I curled the tail around the back. I wanted to make him as big as I could up there. Yeah. Yeah. And uh but I wanted to have his full And uh but I wanted to have his full tail in there. I didn't want to chop it off or anything, so I kind of curled it around. And I thought, "Oh, it' be kind of cool to set a ball in here." And so, it's actually there. It keeps a And so, it's actually there. It keeps a ball from setting there. You know, the ball rolls off of it um because it's there and and it looked kind of cool. So, yeah. No, I thought it was great when I yeah. No, I thought it was great when I first saw it. I actually thought someone got their ball stuck and nobody realized, but then I realized it was there on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Um, look, I I think and also seeing the expression lighting, like to see expression lighting in a non-m music pin um really sets a tone. There's been elements of the gameplay I've seen people share online uh with the influences that were or the pinfluences as they get like being called. Um where it really created that atmospheric change in the modes and stuff. Um did you find that Um did you find that the Death Star for the first time? the Death Star for the first time? The light show was unbelievable. Yeah. The light show was unbelievable. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Very nice. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Very nice. Um, do you find that challenging, Ray, Um, do you find that challenging, Ray, trying to have to code that in as well with the lighting or is that someone else that does that lighting? Uh, well, I definitely had a lot of Uh, well, I definitely had a lot of help. Um, the new programmer, Andrew, did all the um the expression lighting on this one. Um, so he he was able to get up and running with um the tools we have to kind of map out the lighting and and be able to generate kind of the things you need to generate in code. and and then he just went in and and where he thought it would be cool to be, you know, when you're in Java land an orange kind of background and when you're in Vader land it's like red and when you blow up the dust dart red and blue and and everything. Um y y so yeah, Andrew uh crushed it for sure so yeah, Andrew uh crushed it for sure and and we'll you know continue to keep iterating on it because um those lights do add quite a bit. Um and I I was really glad to hear the Um and I I was really glad to hear the Williams score. I think that's something everyone was like, are we gonna hear that? Uh, was that something that you guys really wanted a license? He said it had to be. Was it challenging to get in there? Uh, I think we got that secured pretty Uh, I think we got that secured pretty early on. Um, it was it was part of the, you know, we it was it was part of the, you know, we need that. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's one thing I Yeah. Yeah. Because that's one thing I think everyone would have been uh pulling their pitch out for pitchforks out if it wasn't in there. That's for sure. Um, Imperial March as well. Uh, the music, there's a lot of original score in this. there's a lot of stuff I heard uh you guys have done some of your own audio obviously. Um how was that experience and that how was that experience and that journey? Uh yeah, we have a guy uh Jerry Thompson and he has guys that makes music and um we just asked him like, "Hey, we need like 24 different moods, you know, for this sort of feeling, this sort of feeling, you know, victory feeling, dark feeling, you know, and and he just gave them to us pretty quickly and we we put him in." Um so this was this project was so m kind of a little tangent, but I think it's a good place. This project was so huge with audio that we had two sound people. Um Bob Baffy and Jerry Thompson. Um it was kind of like a divide and conqueror sort of deal where Bob Baffy went through the thousand clips and and pulled the the dialogue and then Jerry would take that in and kind of balance it with the game and and add the music and other sound effects that we needed. And so it was a a really uh big undertaking, but it really turned out really amazing where you hit a shot and the you know we we blow it up as big as we can um and then you know the award underneath it and we play the dialogue from the movie and you just notice it immediately. You're just like wow this is really cinematic. Um and the levels are really really good. and the levels are really really good. They're they're really well done. And when we first received them, there were I think there were two that uh Jerry had him go back and rework a little bit. Um but uh it's they sound really good. Um but uh it's they sound really good. The I guess having the the implement of uh I guess having the the implement of uh Spike 3's upgraded audio system, you know, if you know you've got something like that, then you want to obviously have that immersive experience, right? With it comes across really clear. You know, it comes across really clear. You know, you turn it up and you can hear the voices really well. You can hear the music really well. It's very high fidelity, for sure. and the um uh the call outs. So, are the call outs actually by the guy that does the C3PO voices in the shows and that? No, he's a soundike and he was fabulous. No, he's a soundike and he was fabulous. It's very good. It's very good. I think he's a sound alike that does I think he's a sound alike that does C3PO in other things, too. Um I forget his name. Chris, I think. Yeah, I heard it was Chris. I can't Yeah, I heard it was Chris. I can't remember his last name now, but I think he's done like some video games and TV shows. Yeah. So, he he did a great job and we Yeah. So, he he did a great job and we got a bunch of custom speech and it's really helpful um kind of aiding you, you know, when you have something lit that you might not be aware of and and of course silly lines that C3 Rio would say. Um so the game the game is ve very much alive um with all that custom dialogue and all the all the movie scene dialogue. Yeah, which I think is important because I think you know with the call outs and that creating that experience of especially with such a popular character as well who's you know C3PO is quite an anxious type and also quite a friendly type and then so that that character trait helps in a lot of situations in the pinball game. Um so I'm interested to hear out more of those. Yeah, I think just recently Borg was Yeah, I think just recently Borg was like Ray Ray when you save the ball into the into the shooter lane for Magnet we got C3O has to say we're saved. [Music] Yeah, I wanted a call out in place of that just so that you knew, you know, when the when the ball hits the the shooter lane switch again after the magnet, you know, you can, you know, oh, we're saved. Yeah. And there's all all sorts of good Yeah. And there's all all sorts of good um good C3O lines and and and like you said, all the movie lines, too. So, I can't remember how many lines we I can't remember how many lines we wrote, but I I I think I wrote probably about six or 700 lines, and I think Mike wrote wrote some, too. Um yeah, we that was that was a lot of fun to do and you know thinking like C3PO and how would he how would he say you know how would he say? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even that goes through licenser Yeah. Even that goes through licenser approval. So even licenser approval for would C3PO say this or like absolutely not or like yes he would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um the the big screen, the new Yeah. um the the big screen, the new screen obviously um I've seen a bit of comments about the fact that a lot of people felt that um having the big screen was a little bit underused because obviously uh from what I've understood the license didn't want the like a bit on Bond didn't want the information and the scores over the film clips. Is that correct? Correct. Correct. Yeah. So, so that it it it was a bit of Yeah. So, so that it it it was a bit of a like shock because we're like, "Okay, well, we had this plan and now we "Okay, well, we had this plan and now we got to make a new plan." Um, but it actually I think when you're playing the game, you don't notice it at all. It's only when you're watching like a stream and you're you're you're looking because the thing is the only time that you have the UI the only time that you have the UI covering and that it's shrunk as small as it is is when you're not hitting things and you're just in background. And the background loops are the most uneventful clips, right? We save the good clips for when you're hitting jackpots, when you're progressing the story, when you're hitting things. And those clips I always make sure to blow up as big as you can possibly fit with like a score right underneath it. Um because you got to have a score. If Um because you got to have a score. If you just show a clip, then you don't really know. I mean, you're watching a movie, it's cool, but you got to have some score. Um so that was a big balancing act of we want to show it as big as we can. Um, I even put in a setting for tournament players so that if you want it smaller so that it shows your score at all time, there's that setting. Um, but by default it'll be as big as it as it possibly can. I think uh there's always that thing I think uh there's always that thing that famous rolling text at the beginning of a Star Wars film that people want to see. Did you toy with the idea of having that fill the whole screen as you push start and then it goes into the layout for the scoring and everything or were did you have limitations there? Um, yeah, it would just it probably look Um, yeah, it would just it probably look awkward going from the one and then kind of jarring, you know, going down. So we wanted to avoid that as much as possible with kind of big small big small you know um and and you still get the effect of when you press start you hear the most important thing is hearing the theme song right um right at one point we had speech where you know you press start and C3PO says something silly and we're like uh that's cool but we got to hear the theme song now is not the time C3PO we got we got to hear hear the theme song Um, were you John, were you worried when they said, "We want you to do Star Wars at all?" Did you think, "Oh, no. I was No, I was uh I was um I no. I was No, I was uh I was um I couldn't wait to get started on it." Um, you know, it's been uh 33 years since I made a Star Wars game. And um I would have done it uh you know, I would have done it eight years ago, but uh I wasn't in line and I was already working on something at that time. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, I was glad to Yeah. So, um, but yeah, I was glad to get this. Um, uh, it was a lot of fun. Um, it's a great title. The the game is just beautiful to look at and it's fast and it's furious and and when you blow up the Death Star, the hair goes up on the back of your neck and so that makes me feel like it's a home run. Yeah. Well, look, I I think I think it's Yeah. Well, look, I I think I think it's uh definitely very well put together for something that is uh safe and approachable, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And um I think sometimes you're very driven by a theme on how far you can take a game um especially, you know, with designers out there making interesting ball path um in their layouts. I think sometimes those games can be quite challenging for newcomers. Um and uh I don't think there's anything definitely wrong with what the layout um is. Uh the game looks great. I uh c can you do more? Sure. Can sculpt suviga? Sure. But I think, you know, there's got to find balance. Uh I'm a bit of a realist like that, so I understand that. But um was there anything that you've heard or seen that you guys wanted to address at all that you think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding or um rumors or anything like that at all that we haven't covered? I know we spoke about the the the art and the screen and the anything we've missed. Yeah. Gosh, not that I can think of. I'm Yeah. Gosh, not that I can think of. I'm I'm kind of curious to see what the modders are going to do, you know. Yeah. Oh, well, I can already tell you Yeah. Oh, well, I can already tell you someone's going to make a bigger Death Star with some LED lights. That's for sure. Or, you know, Or, you know, somebody might put some, you know, little TIE fighters or something behind the Death Star like they're, you know, Xing Tie Fighters or something and dress that area up with some 3D 3D ships. Yeah, I've got a little uh a really good Boba I've got a little uh a really good Boba Fett scale figure and a Kerry Fisher one that is in a bikini that is going to go in front of Jaba and Boba Fett will stand Boba Fett. I'll put him right next to Jaba. Uh that's the thing about pinball. Like I love putting figures and mods in games just to um uh like I love Jack's um Uncanny X-Men and I've got a whole heap of figures I want to try and cram into that already crammed layout. Um, but yeah, look, the modders I think will will uh go to town on it. That's for sure. Um, so boys, look, we've we've done an Um, so boys, look, we've we've done an hour. I'm really happy with that and I really appreciate. I know it's late and I know that it's you guys are busy. Um, maybe we'll do a u me and Ray will do another one when your code's a little bit more involved to discuss any changes um wizard modes and stuff like that in the future. Uh, and uh, yeah, we'll we'll just um, pretty sure we'll catch up again in the in a month's time or so. Yeah, Yeah, sounds good. sounds good. All right, thank you very much, guys. All right, thank you very much, guys. And guys, look, uh, if you haven't gone over, there's a whole heap of content on this game. Uh, Retro Ralph has a fantastic video. Um, jump on that. Jeff from Dirty Pool Pinball. Uh, every content creator was there. Erica from Erica Pinball's Journey. Don's just done a podcast. There's a lot of love being given to this game. So, um, by all means, check out all the content. And guys, thank you very much again. Uh, I'll let you guys get some sleep. It's a bit late now. Thanks. A pleasure. Thanks. A pleasure. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Yep. Talk soon. Yep. Talk soon. Bye. Bye. Yeah. Bye. Yeah. Bye. [Music]