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#32 Flash Gordon - The Classic Pinball Podcast

The Classic Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·59m 3s·held·Jun 10, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Deep dive into Flash Gordon mechanics, pricing, design, and broader pinball restoration trends during pandemic.

Summary

George and Dave discuss Flash Gordon (Bally, 1980), a classic pinball machine featuring level-shifting ramps and complex multiplier mechanics. They cover gameplay strategies, designer/artist credits (Claude Fernandez/Kevin O'Connor), pricing ($3,500-$5,000+ for good examples), and tangential topics including restoration work, supply chain constraints during lockdown, and EM machine repairs. The hosts emphasize game setup optimization and playfield geometry as critical to performance.

Key Claims

  • Flash Gordon was designed by Claude Fernandez and featured artwork by Kevin O'Connor

    medium confidence · George (host) states this from memory with uncertainty, Dave corrects 'O'Brien' to 'O'Connor'. Not independently verified in content.

  • A really nice Flash Gordon example costs $3,500-$5,000 or more

    high confidence · Dave provides specific pricing estimate: '$3,500-plus range for a very, very good example' and mentions adding '$1,000' for nicer examples.

  • Flash Gordon requires precise game setup/optimization for certain shots to work (e.g., 100k shot from bottom flipper up right ramp)

    high confidence · Dave discusses how some Flash Gordon machines won't execute certain shots properly due to geometry, steepness, flipper power, requiring optimization work.

  • The lead actor of Flash Gordon contacted Dave years ago offering autographed memorabilia instead of cash for a restored machine

    medium confidence · Dave recounts anecdote about 'Sam' (Flash Gordon actor, likely Sam J. Jones) offering signed items instead of payment; Dave declined.

  • Bally was among the first pinball manufacturers to license pop culture themes (Dolly Parton, Evel Knievel, Elton John, Harlem Globetrotters)

    medium confidence · George and Dave discuss Bally's mid-to-late 1970s games with pop culture licensing; Dave confirms 'I think you're right' but conversation is speculative.

  • Black Knight is still playable on location but would need approximately $2,000 to get into production-ready condition

    medium confidence · Dave estimates restoration cost 'maybe two grand' based on online Pinside pricing of $800-$1,800 for average machines plus restoration work.

  • 90s Williams/Bally ramp games are prone to resets due to tight 5-volt tolerance (4.85V-5.1V margin)

    high confidence · Dave provides technical detail: 'if it goes below 4.8 volts or 4.85 volts, the game crashes and resets' and 'highest that the game will output for 5-bolts typically is 5.1.'

Notable Quotes

  • “That game is supposed to be able to, from the bottom left flipper at least, to go up that ramp and make that shot. So your game has to be set up right. The geometry and the steepness of the game and the powerfulness of the flipper and so forth to make that shot.”

    Dave @ Not specified — Explains critical importance of physical setup and optimization in classic pinball, not just wear/tear.

  • “I like to optimize the games. I spend a lot of OCD time on that.”

    Dave @ Not specified — Reveals Dave's restoration philosophy: meticulous attention to playfield geometry and mechanics.

  • “She loves Flash Gordon. She's like 83 years old and she loves playing this game, which is amazing.”

    Dave @ Not specified — Humanizes pinball appeal across age groups; sets up restoration challenge story.

  • “How about instead we do cash, check, or charge?”

    Dave @ Not specified — Dave's humorous refusal of actor's offer of memorabilia instead of payment; reveals commodity value preference over celebrity items.

  • “If you really want a nice, nice one, I've seen, well, I'm not going to talk about the competition, but because he's got a big following. Yeah, crazy-ass money for that game.”

    George @ Not specified — References premium pricing for rare/restored Flash Gordon machines; hints at competitor/collector with high-visibility sales.

  • “There's going to be some really kick-ass games in a couple months when this thing opens up, whenever it does, because people are spending time shopping games out there, buying tons of parts, and they're redoing all their games.”

    Dave @ Not specified — Predicts post-lockdown market will see improved availability of restored machines due to pandemic-driven restoration work.

  • “They made a whole bunch of new boards for that game too. Co-Hot, Co-something, Co-Hot. They made Williams boards for all the classic games, so it puts new technology into these old boards.”

    Dave — References aftermarket board manufacturers (CoHo/similar) making replacement electronics for classic Williams games.

Entities

Flash GordongameClaude FernandezpersonKevin O'ConnorpersonDavepersonGeorgepersonSam J. JonespersonJohnperson

Signals

  • ?

    design_innovation: Flash Gordon identified as part of design lineage extending from Black Knight through Stern Lightning to mid-80s Bally games (Vector, Flash Gordon). Level-shifter ramps became standard feature in 80s pinball design.

    high · Dave traces design evolution: 'So it all came from black knight from williams and then stern lightning same thing and then alright here we go Stern Lightning did level shifting Black Knight from Williams Flash Gordon Bally'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Flash Gordon requires precise playfield setup and flipper optimization for key shots (100k shot up right ramp from bottom flipper). Many machines fail to execute this shot without proper geometry/maintenance.

    high · Dave notes: 'depending on how your flash Gordon is set up, that shot will not work. you cannot go up that right ramp and over and down to your shooter lane and get that shot' and emphasizes setup requirements.

  • ?

    restoration_signal: EM machine restoration requires careful component testing post-delivery. New York machine experienced drop-target reset failure due to imprecise switch gap/dwell time, discovered only after customer played ~300-400 games.

    high · Dave recounts: 'drop targets would not Reset all the time' due to 'not tight enough of a gap' requiring adjustment of switch gap for 'longer dwell time.'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Pandemic lockdown created parts shortage and surge in demand for restoration services. Many online retailers sold out of key components (boards, connectors, displays). Dave proactively purchased inventory early.

    high · Dave states: 'I started buying thousands of dollars per month on boards and everything else early on' and notes websites showing 'sold out of a lot of stuff.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.177

0:30
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George and I'm joined by my co-host Dave. Hello Dave.
0:45
Hello George. When we spoke earlier in the week, you had mentioned that our next show should be about Flash Gordon. Oh, I know where it's going. Go ahead. I don't think you do.
1:00
Maybe. Someone else did it. I said to myself, well, IPDB is good, but that's just the written word. I need to see how, because I don't own this game. I have played it numerous times, but face it, I'm not a pinball nerd where I can remember every nuance of the game. I'm just not smart enough, pay attention close enough, it's not important enough, whatever it is. so I go out and I watch our neighbor Mr. Karens and this video was made almost six years to the day of this recording so okay he'll give me the deal and he played the first couple games and they were like 100,000 games he was just No, no, he was not doing well at all But Around the fifth game or so He lit it up I'll tell you why There's no ramp on it He needs a ramp and some LEDs, man Go ahead Well, no, that's not going to light you up This is what's going to light you up So today there's a new Episode from Canada And again I'm not going to get into it, but I'm just going to state what I heard, that he was calling out Mr. Cairns and his political views, which I found extremely interesting on a podcast. But if it's ever going to be on a podcast, I'm guessing it would be on that one.
2:48
I'm guessing Mr. Cairns a little bit left to center, just a guess. go to the head of the class. Let's just leave it at that. So if you're interested,

Supply chain for pinball parts became constrained due to pandemic lockdowns

high confidence · Dave states 'people are their home all day...they're locked down' and notes websites are 'sold out of a lot of stuff.' George confirms observing parts unavailability.

  • An 83-year-old Flash Gordon fan had her machine incorrectly restored with 6-digit displays instead of proper 7-digit displays

    high confidence · Dave recounts restoration story: customer brought in Flash Gordon to restore for his 83-year-old sister; Dave discovered prior restorer installed 6-digit instead of 7-digit displays 15-20 years ago.

  • Demand for pinball restoration and repair work increased significantly during pandemic lockdown

    high confidence · Dave reports 'tons of calls and tons of emails' and 'people want their games restored or repaired' with high volume of work ongoing.

    • @ Not specified

  • “The 90s games are known for resets unless you go through the 5-bolt section and redo a lot of stuff.”

    Dave @ Not specified — Technical insight into common reliability problem in 1990s pinball machines; implications for operator/collector ownership.

  • “It's like a level shifter, exactly. So it all came from Black Knight from Williams and then Stern Lightning same thing and then Flash Gordon you know that kind of thing Vector.”

    Dave @ Not specified — Traces design lineage of ramp-based pinball machines; establishes Flash Gordon as part of established design tradition.

  • “No, no, the thing broke and you had to go back. I had to go back. Yeah, I had a little problem. I had a little hiccup. No, a small hiccup, but still a hiccup.”

    Dave (responding to George) @ Not specified — Reveals EM restoration challenge: New York machine had drop target reset issue during shipping; illustrates real-world repair complexities.

    • Stuperson
    [name withheld pending review]company
    Williamscompany
    Sterncompany
    Pinsideorganization
    Black Knightgame
    Black Knight 2000game
    Black Knight: Sword of Rage (Pro)game
    Lost Worldgame
    New Yorkgame
    Pioneergame
    Spirit of 76game
    Harlem Globetrottersgame
    Future Spagame
    Meteorgame
    The Classic Pinball Podcastorganization
    $

    market_signal: Flash Gordon pricing: $3,500-$5,000+ for very good examples; Black Knight $800-$1,800 depending on condition/restoration. Restored machines command significant premiums.

    high · Dave: '$3,500-plus range for a very, very good example' for Flash Gordon and 'anywhere from like 800 bucks to 1800 bucks is a decent price' for Black Knight.

  • ?

    product_concern: 1990s Williams/Bally ramp games notorious for system resets due to tight 5-volt power supply margin (4.85V-5.1V). Requires comprehensive 5-volt circuit rebuild and quality connectors to stabilize.

    high · Dave explains: 'if it goes below 4.8 volts or 4.85 volts, the game crashes and resets...very tight margin' and 'highest that the game will output for 5-bolts typically is 5.1.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Third-party manufacturers (CoHo/similar) producing replacement power supply and control boards for classic Williams games with improved specs (e.g., voltage display on board).

    medium · Dave mentions: 'They made a whole bunch of new boards for that game too. Co-Hot, Co-something, Co-Hot...puts new technology into these old boards.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Pandemic lockdown drove surge in pinball restoration work demand. Homebound players restocking/upgrading personal collections, creating robust market for technician services.

    high · Dave: 'people are shut in. They're just looking for something to do' and 'I've been busy Busy, busy' with 'tons of calls and tons of emails.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dave's restoration approach emphasizes meticulous playfield optimization (geometry, flipper power, ramp angles) as critical to game performance. Generic restoration insufficient without tuning to specific machine requirements.

    high · Dave: 'I like to optimize the games. I spend a lot of OCD time on that' and explains importance of proper setup for Flash Gordon's 100k shot.

  • ?

    historical_signal: Bally pioneered pop culture licensing in pinball mid-to-late 1970s with games like Dolly Parton, Evil Knievel, Elton John (Captain Fantastic), Harlem Globetrotters, and Flash Gordon (1980). Established theme licensing as industry standard.

    medium · George and Dave discuss Bally's licensing strategy: 'evil knievel, Elton John on Captain Fantastic...Harlem Globetrotters' with Dave confirming 'I think you're right' about Bally's pioneering role.

  • ?

    venue_signal: Classic machines like Black Knight remain viable location earners with low-cost acquisition ($800-$1,800) and minimal setup investment (~$2,000 restoration). Operator profitability dependent on reasonable play rates and reliable mechanics.

    medium · George speculates Black Knight 'would do very well with it' on location and Dave estimates restoration at ~$2k, making total investment relatively modest for operator model.

    • 2:59
    10 minutes in, it's worth the two-minute listen. I can't wait. I'm going to go right there afterwards. So that's one of the things that happened, which leads me back to, so he led me through the whole game, and I'm like, okay, this game is fun. I know it's really hard, But it seems like just like Harlem Globetrotters, which was a couple episodes ago, that inline target bank is the deal. You want to get that first.
    3:40
    Well, yes, you do. But you've got to keep on. I know you have to keep it all in play. I understand that. That's part of the game.
    3:50
    Once your ball goes away, you lose the multipliers, you know, for next ball. I understand that. You've got to earn them. That's like every other game for the most part I own. I mean, you know, no gimme's. You've got to earn it.
    4:06
    So that's only half of it. So the other pieces, which I like on this game and I forgot about it, were the lights on the target bank. and if you hit a target with a light, it's worth 10,000 points. So there's another podcast that I listen to, and I'm not going to tell their names because people already probably know who they are, but they're going to do a game review of Future Spa, which I thought quite odd.
    4:40
    You thought quite odd? Well, I'll tell you why they're probably doing it Because Future Spot has become a good tournament game It's ugly as sin I hate the look of that game Sorry It's ugly The pinks, the purples, the whites It's just not good But it's kind of like A wide-body Valley eight-ball Fonzie To me That's what it kind of feels like A wide-body version of that game I'm not telling you I don't like playing it my friend Jack has had, had one, you know, until the great washout.
    5:18
    He had one for quite a number of years and we put a lot of games on that and it's a fun game to play. It's just, I just wouldn't own it. I know you're saying I would not, I own that game and I sold it after I restored it pretty quickly to a guy in Oregon. Didn't we talk about this before that I have almost every other wide body game by them, except, you know, I don't like space invaders. This is the only other one I don't have. If I could buy it cheap, I would buy it. I mean, remember I told you? That's where it came up. A couple episodes ago, I said there was one in Brattleboro, Vermont, for like $600. I would buy it for $600.
    5:57
    That's not bad. Right. Well, did you see the $250 Meteor, was it? Out on Long Island. No. Out on Long Island. that's where I got my quick silver deal about a year ago he said the back glass and the cabinet was good but it was basically gutted oh well I don't know if that's just boards or some mechs but you know assume the worst and hope for the best so you're basically paying for a cabinet wiring harness and you know, a backlash. Miserable airframe. Lucky shot airframe. So I last left us with the target bank on the left of Flash Gordon, and I said to you, if you hit the flashing one, it's worth $10,000 a target. Is that a setting?
    7:01
    No. What a flashing one? There's no flashing one. What are you talking about? there's the four targets on the bottom left of the machine. Okay, yeah, yeah, four targets. Those lights blink and if you hit the target that is blinking, I think they blink 1, 3, and 2, 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. I think it's just two settings. 1, 3, 2, 4. If you hit one of those targets while it's blinking. What he said, again, I don't own the game. He said it was 10,000 points. So I'm like, okay, that's a cool feature. Well, it is a cool feature, but that's not really the point. The point of hitting those blinky targets is you want to get all the blinky targets to go solid so that will enable, then you want to get the other lanes that match up your flipper feed lanes and the other two stand-ups on the other right side of the game, and then that makes three times. For a total of eight targets. Right, and the three times playfield value saucer lights up and go in there and get three times playfield value for 15 seconds, and then if you get the other thing up the top there, the top three drop targets in order up top when it's lit, that's two times, and if you get them all, that's five times playfield values, and then you frickin' rip that thousand point spinner a couple times, now it's five thousand a spin, and you're in, I don't know, Flash Gordon Gravy.
    8:36
    So, he was focused on the 100,000 point shot. And he said there were two ways of accomplishing it. On the upper play field, there's a single target. Yes. I guess it would be on the back. Right. I don't know how to describe the position, but there's a single target. I see it. and then through the shooter lane and back into the shooter lane. You know what? That is correct. It depends on how your game is set up. Sometimes that – like I have a flash Gordon right now that that shot does not work. You cannot get all the way up there from the bottom flipper, but you can from the – so a lot of times, depending on how your flash Gordon is set up, that shot will not work. you cannot go up that right ramp and over and down to your shooter lane and get that shot he's talking about. It won't go. It'll go partway up, but it won't go all the way around. So a lot of times when games won't do that, depending on their setup and so forth, you can use the upper right flipper and backhand it up there, and it'll go.
    10:22
    But it's all about optimizing your game, because that game is supposed to be able to, from the bottom left flipper at least, to go up that ramp and make that shot. So your game has to be set up right.
    10:36
    The geometry and the steepness of the game and the powerfulness of the flipper and so forth to make that shot. So if it doesn't do that, then there's something that's not quite right with the game. You need to be optimized further, which is what I like to do. I like to optimize the games. I spend a lot of OCD time on that. well in the you know video that i watched he attempted to do that numerous times and finally it happened but the other question i had and it was when he first started the video was there are those rollovers up there and when you plunge the ball into the lane they don't do anything, the only time those light up is for that 100,000 point shot. Is that correct?
    11:27
    Yeah, when you shoot the ball over them when you first shoot it, they're not worth anything. Only when the ball is in play when you go back the other way is when they're worth something because it's actually making a shot. So it's identifying the shot. It's showing you that here's what you want to do to get the 100,000 points. Right.
    11:50
    Okay. It's a great game. I mean, actually, I just took one in for, I have my own up right now in my lineup that's in gorgeous shape.
    11:59
    Original play field and so forth. And a really nice shape. And then I have a guy who just brought me his from, he's like 80 years old and his sister's like 83 and he wants it restored for her for her birthday, which is later this month. And she loves Flash Gordon. She's like 83 years old and she loves playing this game. which is amazing. I said, you know, this is one of the hardest games to play. She was a really good player.
    12:22
    And then I noticed when I brought the game in, when he brought it to me to restore for him, that someone put whoever restored the game 15, 20 years ago. Not a real good job, by the way, whoever did it.
    12:38
    They put six-digit displays in the game. It's a seven-digit game. It's all six digits. Oh, no. Yeah, so no wonder she's doing well. Oh, I flipped it over. Yeah.
    12:49
    Good. But yeah, I hate to tell the guy. I hate to break it to him. Especially if she's used to six digits.
    12:59
    He's on a budget, so I don't want to throw seven digits. He might be a candidate for those new LED displays. Those look pretty decent.
    13:10
    He's on a budget, though. He's not on... No, then you get six digits and you roll it. That's the way it is. fine. He's fine.
    13:19
    It's going to be fine. I have some customers that want me to blow the bank on it. I can go crazy. Some customers want to keep it under a certain budget. I'll cater to that and I'll do what I need to do to keep it under that. Things that I can skimp on, like going to seven versus six. If you had six all along, then six is what you're used to. It's going to be six. Fine.
    13:41
    I noticed they even cut a wire. They cut a wire from one of the things. Why is this wire cut? Oh, that's why. six digits.
    13:49
    Well, there's a game for sale locally. I'm not going to say where. They want $2,500 for a pig. What is Flash? Yeah, Flash. No, I'm going to talk about some other game. Yeah, Flash Jordan. And it was just a pig.
    14:12
    That's ridiculous. Because I know John just bought one for high teens and it was actually in pretty decent shape. Oh, maybe about a year ago or so.
    14:23
    Yeah, again. It's a fun game. I look forward to playing yours as I do everything you have. The April Deluxe. Let me know when you want me to... I'm still fixated on that. I will always be fixated on that game Let me know I going to break you out I going to break you out of lockdown I going to go there in the middle of the night I kidnap you
    14:54
    So Flash Gordon, usually we lead with the designer and the artist. And I'm going to go from memory and I'm not very smart. Claude Fernandez did the design and Kevin O'Brien did the artwork? O'Connor. Yeah, okay. You had the Irish thing right. Yeah, I was close in the Irish category. You're in the ballpark. It's all right. I want to get back. One of our episodes, we talked about the games Bollie did during the mid the late 70s that all had some kind of pop reference.
    15:43
    And there were quite a few. And I know I asked this question before. Well, Dolly Parton, you know, Evil Knievel, Elton John on Captain Fantastic.
    16:00
    I don't know. I know I'm forgetting a ton of games. Harlem Globetrotters. What do they have in common? What are you saying? Was Bali the first company to do that?
    16:15
    To do what? To do licensing of pop culture. Oh, okay, okay. You know, I think you're right. Yes. I think, yes. We're talking about Flash Gordon. and I think somehow I thought we talked about this as well that the movie was it was less than Star Wars how's that yeah but you know though I liked it for it's time when I saw that in the theater I mean it had Queen for the soundtrack you know Queen was doing the soundtrack so they had that going for them they had And who's the guy, one of the Bond guys from years ago? Timothy Dalton was in it. He played one of the characters in that, one of the good guy, bad guy. There's a lot of famous people in that. Max von Sydow as Ming the Marshaless.
    17:17
    So I told you about the Flash Gordon guy, whatever his name is. I forget his name. Forgive me. He contacted me a couple years ago. He wanted me to make him a minty Flash Gordon restored for his own personal head stash. No way. And he's one. The lead actor of Flash Gordon, I'll insert his name later. He's – Sam – I want to think Sam something. Sam. Sam I am.
    17:47
    Sam I am. It's Sam whatever. Yes, him. No idea. He contacted me. He called me up. He called me up a couple years ago. Hey, I'm Sam whatever. I'm Flash Gordon, and I hear you do an awesome job in restoring games, and I want to restore Flash Gordon. I know you have one. How much will you sell it to me? And I told him the price. Well, instead of that price, how about if I give you a bunch of signed whatever, my signature, an autograph, personal autograph, picture of me, and a poster of me and, I don't know, a video of me or something. I go, well, that sounds great.
    18:30
    So how about, that sounds like a great offer with the signature stuff and your picture. How about instead we do cash, check, or charge? Oh, so he was trying to give you some paraphernalia in lieu of.
    18:49
    Yes. In lieu of anybody. Yeah. You know who my favorite character is, right? Benjamin. No. Benjamin. Benjamin's a great character. Yeah, Benjamin, he's good. I like ten of them with a little band around them.
    19:11
    That's like one of my favorites. Maybe several tens of them with little bands around them. Oh, no, no, bunches.
    19:19
    There are bunches of Benjamins in little bands. He's like one of my favorite characters. Yeah. So if you want to sign those and send those over, Sam, we can do some business.
    19:36
    No, Sam, you got damned. No. Sorry. He didn't get a game, obviously. Negative. No. He might have got a game from somebody else. He actually turned from an actor into a bouncer. He actually runs his own security.
    20:02
    You're going to pay off. I'm going to put you on the spot. I know John is an outlier. Don't ever include the genius because he'll always get a good deal. But I would guess if you wanted a really nice – I keep wanting to go to Harlem Globetrotters. God, I got that in my mind. Flash Gordon, I'm guessing you're going to be in the $3,500-plus range for a very, very good example of that game. I'm not being polite. I think you could add another $1,000 to that, and now you're kind of in the game. and if you really want a nice, nice one,
    20:44
    I've seen, well, I'm not going to talk about the competition, but because he's got a big following. Yeah, crazy-ass money for that game. And it's worth it. I don't own a game like that. I don't own a quote-unquote semi-ramp game. And I know you don't call it a ramp game, but those are ramps. it's a level shifter a typical ramp 90s ramp game feeds the flipper it goes up and around a feature flipper and it's you know kind of easy it's a level it's a level okay i'm gonna coin that phrase it's a level it's a level shift a level shifter exactly so it all came from black knight from williams and then uh stern lightning same thing and then alright here we go Stern Lightning did level shifting Black Knight from Williams Flash Gordon Bally you know that kind of thing Vector Bally so speaking of Black Knight I'm going to be taking yet another game I'm going to be buying because I got a customer he has a home use only Black Knight that he has room for or a new place he's moving to, and basically he's going to give me a real nice price on it, even though I don't really need a Black Knight, but, you know, I'm trying to help him out.
    22:12
    He's a longtime customer, and help him out, and, you know, buying it at a good price for me that I can put some time into it and make it nice and sell it eventually and be okay. So I'm going to do that. So I'm actually going to have two out of the three trilogy. I'm going to have Black Knight, and I also have Black Knight 2000, but I do not have the Stern Black Knight. Swords of Rage but I will have two out of three if you wait long enough you'll get the last one at a good price I think we've already discussed this and probably beat it to death but you know that when I owned my bar we had the original Black Knight in there and it was a killer earner people put a lot of quarters in that game every week I wonder if we'd still that out there on location somewhere of course in a different reality than we're living through right now in normal times how that would do in like a bar or somewhere like that these days a black night people would throw 50 cents if it was the only game and it was a quarter of 50 cents a play you'd do very well with it I don't know you're not going to hit it out of the park but you'll make money on it what do you think it would cost you to get it into that game two grand? Yeah something like that maybe well after I'm all done with it I'm going to be paying less than that for it but yeah I mean I looked online Pinside they were saying anywhere from like 800 bucks to 1800 bucks is a decent price for the game.
    24:01
    You know, so they're not going for a lot. But then again, if you have a restored version, now you're talking a different ballpark. But they're saying like your good average Black Knight is around there. Well, split the difference for an on-site game. I mean, you don't really care if it's perfect. You want it to play correct. Right. You could probably do pretty well with it. I mean, your investment is low. So as long as it's not a, you know, repair-a-rama game where, you know, stuff will go wrong, it's a solid, you know, as long as you set it up right, you know, it could be a good game.
    24:36
    Well, they made a whole bunch of new boards for that game too. Co-Hot, Co-something, Co-Hot. They made Williams boards for all the classic games, so it puts new technology into these old boards that aren't always that great, you know, with all their stuff that Williams did. so they're a u.s company u.s company yep in fact his the power supply board is really nice on his redo it has a re-out display on the board saying what is the what is your five volts at like 5.12 three or whatever actually shows you what your five volt supply is takes all the guesswork out of it so you know you can actually you know probably a little adjuster on that to turn up or down or whatever to kind of tweak it in if you need to. Wouldn't that be nice on all the Bally games?
    25:25
    Yeah, or even better. Well, the Bally games, they're very forgiving. The Ramparama games from Bally Williams in the 90s, they were not forgiving at all because I think if it goes below 4.8 volts or 4.85 volts, the game crashes and resets. So they're known to reset. And the highest that the game will output for 5-bolts typically is 5.1. So there's a very tight margin to have. And then when you start flipping clippers and everything else, it starts bringing it down. So you have to have all the connectors going to be rebuilt. All your 5-bolts has to be strong. So the 90s games are known for resets unless you go through the 5-bolt section and redo a lot of stuff. well it's funny that you're talking about boards because i started looking at a couple of the websites they're sold out of a lot of stuff people have been drained who oh oh tell me about it people are their home all day they're they're they're whatever they're uh they're locked down in their house.
    26:35
    They ain't getting out anytime soon. And they're shopping out their games. We're going to have some really kick-ass games in a couple months when this thing opens up, whenever it does, because people are spending time shopping games out there, buying tons of parts, and they're redoing all their games. So there's going to be some really nice stuff if they want to sell their stuff.
    26:55
    Well, I think that's what everybody is waiting to see, what happens in the future, because I looked at a couple of different sites and I'm like, wow, you can't buy that. You can't buy that. And it just tells you where the supply chain comes from. And, yeah, I get it. I know you took advantage of it with one of the boards that you had manufactured. So it makes sense. But it's funny how the valve got turned off.
    27:27
    Yeah, I was buying early on this stuff when I saw it. I said, you know, I need a lot of stuff. I started buying thousands of dollars per month on boards and everything else early on. I knew I was going to need it anyway, but then all of a sudden I said, who knows what supply chain stuff, so I wanted to grab stuff. I have stuff going forward.
    27:48
    One of the last Stern boards I could get, I got that too. A display issue on a game, the Stern Atlas.
    27:57
    It's good to be in early and getting stuff to have. so yeah pinball biz is big right now something happened the the valve was open but it's open even more right now i'm getting tons of calls and tons of emails but people want their games restored or repaired or uh there's tons of people wanting uh wanting stuff done and uh
    28:20
    i've been busy Busy, busy. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. It sounds like, you know, everybody shut in. You've got a lot of people that probably normally would not have prepared the games, but they're shut in. They're just looking for something to do.
    28:44
    Case in point, like last night, I went to go work on this guy's Lost World, right? Nice house, you know, nice people. and he came to the door. He had a mask in his hand ready to put it on, but he saw me with nothing and he's like, oh, okay, we're like that. He was all cool. He's like, okay, I'm not doing any of that stuff. At the very end, when I'm all done, he loved the work, he put his hand up to shake my hand. It's like, damn right I'm going to shake your hand. So I shook his hand. It was great.
    29:14
    Yeah, that's a ritual that is unfortunately not being done with any frequency anymore, unfortunately.
    29:25
    Nope. I am though I don know Just like rat racing with the Acuras I doing the same thing in the pinball world We just kind of rat racing We're taking our chances. But it's fun.
    29:44
    The speed version of the game comes into play. What are you doing? Give me a one minute. Go. One minute. Go. It comes down onto your flipper. You do. All right, so shoot the ball out, upper right flipper, keep your flipper up. You're going to try to keep it in the upper play field as long as you can. You want to try to get those upper three drop targets, especially the ones that are lit. Get the lit ones down because it keeps cycling around. Once you get them all, get the lit ones down, your two times play field value light comes on for that saucer in the middle of the play field.
    30:21
    And then once you get that, then you bring the ball down to your people as long as you can. then you start going whacking at the inline drops on your right get all those down get the extra ball lit shoot that i have my game set up so you only get one extra ball per game otherwise i don't want you to keep shooting an extra ball all day long up there so it's a little tougher so uh once you get that then i'm nailing the left stand-ups and get all those colors down and also the right stand-ups get those colors down and the inline in lane colors get all those down now you get three times light for your saucer. So now you have two and three times lit up there for five times lit.
    31:04
    I'll try to get the ball, go up the spinner that's lit for a thousand points, go up and around, drop it down to the saucer, after that go more drop targets. Now it's five times playfield value. Now I'll try to hit those lit spinners all day long at five thousand points of spin and I have my spinner's juice to spin forever if I can do it. And multiple rock and roll points there. Then build up your bonus, shoot up the right lane to go to your shooter lane. That's 100,000 points. I think also you get your bonus collect two out of there. Then also another bonus collect with the stand up next to your upper pop bumper.
    31:45
    That's the game in a nutshell. Well done. I'm back. Back in the New York groove. I'm back. Back in the New York groove.
    32:04
    Back in the New York groove. Did you get rid of the New York machine? Yes. That Gottlieb. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's gone and delivered that. And it, I should have, I should have, John Day, again, he's like, you need to, you know, I play test the crap out. He's like, no, you should definitely put 100 games on an EM before you send it off. And it's like, oh, I got about 40 or so. It's playing fine. No, no, no, the thing broke and you had to go back. I had to go back. Yeah, I had a little problem. I had a little hiccup. No, a small hiccup, but still a hiccup. You know, I don't want to, you know, so he was very nice about it, the guy. And so, you know, I say, well, these things happen when you transport and, you know. So, but just in case, I just have a backup plan because it sounds like something simple, but I know my friend Stu has to go up to that area anyway to empty. He has an ATM business as well. He has an ATM machine right nearby the guy's house. Hey, Stu, when you're going up next time to your ATM thing, when are you going next? Oh, I'm going this coming Monday. Hey, do you mind swinging by and meet me at this guy's house? Oh, no problem. I'll bring some tools. Great. So he met me there, and he found – I mean, the issues weren't too bad. He found the issues right away. He was in and out and fixed the thing in, like, I don't know, five or ten minutes. Good to go. So what – And then I stayed – So, whoa, don't gloss over. So what was it?
    33:39
    You had to ask me that one. What was it? I forget. I can always edit this out. Okay. You don't know. I don't, I don't, I forget what the It was like a It was a switch on the Score motor that wasn't Quite, I think it was making too Long, it wasn't quite opening up all the Way, the gap wasn't, was just a little hair Off, that's all it was And then that was making the Oh I know, the drop targets would not Reset all the time, they'd kind of Try to reset but not reset They weren't getting a strong enough pulse. They needed a nice, big… Long sweep of the switch. Long sweep. Yeah, my experience. Does that have to do with the switch work because they're rotary and they're spinning around, and you want the switch to kind of make contact for a long period of time? Yeah, you want the switch to make contact a longer time. You don't want it to just like a little quick hit. It needs more time to do its thing. So it got a quick hit. I think it was not tight enough of a gap. That's what it was. So we made the gap tighter. We cleaned the switch, made the gap tighter. or so be closed longer, longer dwell time.
    34:51
    And that made everything, that part was fine. And then a couple, then a couple lights. She, she played the crap out of it. After, after I delivered it, it was like a week after when they, when they started calling about the other issues, she played, I think like three or 400 games on the thing. Oh shit. She played the crap. The customer?
    35:10
    Yeah. Cause he bought it for his wife for her birthday. Cause she loves pinball. She loves old school pinball. He bought it for her. And she played the crap out of it. Did he have any idea what he bought?
    35:22
    He didn't know until I told him what he bought. But I gave him a whole list of different games available, what I had. Wait, wait, wait. Are we still talking about New York?
    35:32
    Yeah, yeah. That's a hard, you know, that's a collector game, right? That's not an easy game to come by. No, it's not. No, but he didn't really know what it is. Basically, it's like a pioneer. He didn't know. He just knew he likes the look of the game. He didn't know. I don't think he knows. Huh. Did he pay a lot of money for it?
    35:52
    Yeah, he paid good. He paid up. Okay, no, that's all. I don't have to know what it is. So he paid up for an older game. Okay.
    36:02
    Yeah, he paid good money for it. I mean, basically, I get paid for my time. I get paid well for the time I put into it. No, no, that's cool. Because I went out online and looked at that game and what was the other one called?
    36:20
    1776 or something like that? Spirit of 76 and Pioneer. So they basically recycled this title three times. They did. Well, yes. The Spirit of 76 is a four-player. Pioneer is a two-player. New York's a two-player, but with the Adaball flair. with a fake out of ball. It's a fake out of ball. But they use sort of the same platform and the same play field. Right. Exactly.
    36:51
    It's like pretty much just like the extra ball is a lot easier to keep getting extra balls on on New York, and that's about it. That's the only real difference I can see. Right. It's like a pioneer, but it says New York on it. No, no, no. Like I said, I went out and looked because I was curious because you were saying how rare it was. And it was made pretty much for New York City and surrounding area. You know, they really, you know, it was like a special run almost.
    37:24
    Oh, yeah. It's like what we're going through today with Como and all his silliness. It's the same thing. They had silliness back in the day, too, for this crap. So same stuff.
    37:34
    Eat the crust around the edges. Yeah. Okay. You can nibble. You're allowed to nibble. I'll nibble. You know I won't. You know I won't edit it. I'll leave it in. And so she played the crap out of it. They didn't really know what they bought. Now they do. They love the game. She loves the game, playing the crap out of it. Well, you just said John's telling you to play 100 games on it. She did you a favor by basically saying, okay, amp it up. Now you know the game is basically she's gone through it. All you have to do is make that one little change. That's not bad.
    38:07
    So much so that the game has so much play on it and so many hours of being on time that a lot of the lights in it, the light sockets were all good when I had it, but after being on so much time, so much heat now, now some light sockets were failing. So I went and basically did all the – I did some lights anyway when I had it here, but all the lights were still good. I decided to do all the ones she's talking about. I either replaced them with new light sockets while I was there. Stu left, and I was there for like another two or three hours just kind of making it. What did you use, a 44? the bayonet yeah 44 bayonet yeah but the light sockets were you know they were like spinning around they suck you know I learned that the hard way I just got frustrated with every one of my games and replaced them all well you can replace them all I just the ones that are really bad I'll replace the ones that are just a little bit loose I'll actually can you take a little file you file things down you saw the little nipple on there and you saw to the side of it, and typically it's good, and you're all set. You can bring new life into an old thing. So I did that where I could. Other ones I replaced. So other than that, then she was all good to go. But, in fact, I just noticed, and then I cleaned the place, because just from being played, it was like the rubbers were a little dirty, and it's like 400 plays. And Stu has said, you played that many games. I looked at the counter, and it's true. She played a lot, like 400 games. So did you say to her, hey, you're going to be calling me back in two months to do a tune-up on this game if you keep playing it like this. I told her I just gave her a free tune-up just then. I gave her a freebie while I was there. I said, you know, I'm going to clean the playfield. I cleaned the rubber. I cleaned the playfield. But I gave her the really good Titan rubber, so the rubber's not going to wear out. Right. So I cleaned everything.
    39:58
    But I'll tell you, when I played it after a test game, after I cleaned it, it played well, but it didn't have that nice, I don't know, as punchy a feel as when I first restored it. it was like extra bouncy and rubbery and so forth. And it still played very well. But I just, I noticed a difference from when I first delivered it to when, to how it just, you know, when the game is like brand new versus a game that's been played a little bit, you know, it just was like down like half a peg. That's all. It's called broken. It's called broken in. It was broken in. I mean, I, she didn't notice it. I mean, I noticed this stuff cause I'm tuned into what these games play like. That's when I've just finished doing them, you know? And I'm kind of spoiled by the fact that when I do my games, even for myself, I don't play a lot. But when I actually can take some time and not feel guilty about playing and taking that time away from working on them, I'll actually put a couple games on. But that's why the games stay so pristine because I have very low plays on my games. So they're always like a fresh restoration I'm playing on, which is nice.
    41:01
    I understand because some of my games are becoming broken in. and you know that they just don't play like they did. But, you know, you've got to play them. I mean, it doesn't mean that you go and rip the whole thing apart again. I mean, it doesn't have that many plays on it. But, you know, I use my games. That's what they're there for. They're not museum pieces.
    41:25
    I'll tell you, there's some people out there that say, oh, I need to practice, practice, practice, practice. I find when I practice too much on games, I don't do well. I do better stepping up to a game that I haven't played in months, and a couple games in, I'll crank, I'll get a new high score.
    41:43
    I've got a customer up in upstate New York right now who wants me to come there and do a little day spa on his, oh, whatever ramp game it is. I forget, some ramp game. I forget, whatever.
    41:55
    Let's say, hey, you're three and a half. Rampy Rampster and the Rampers. It's the Ramp or the Rampsters, whatever the frick it is, you know. Yeah, Rampy Ramster and the Ramsters. Rampy Ramster. He's a six-hour job, but he's like three-and-a-half hours away, and he's up above Albany somewhere. And it's like, well, first of all, you're in New York, and so your lovely governor doesn't want anything, any funny business. And it's like, I need to stay over somewhere, and you can't do that. I need to go to a restaurant. I can't do that. So he's saying, oh, no, no. You know what? So he's ready to – I think he's ready to, like, turn me on to – he found a bed and breakfast that I think he's going to spring for. He's like, I'll set you up here. There's bed and breakfast over here, and you can eat there. He's ready to freaking spring me for a night's stay nearby and do all that for me.
    42:44
    Doesn't sound like a bad deal. Do you have the stuff to repair it? Always. I get like 20, 30 grand worth of stuff to repair it. I get everything.
    42:53
    So how this all works out is that same time this guy – No, no, just get to the chase. I know. I bring the whole shop with me when I go on site these days. I bring everything. I want to be one shot done, day spa done, get it all done.
    43:07
    Here's your bill. Pay me. And they pay me, and we're good to go. Nice game. That's how we roll. I bring my lovely wife with me. My lovely wife, Carol Merrill, she's there, and she's helping out. Shopping plate fills out while I'm fixing cords or whatever.
    43:23
    So at the same time that's happening, that he's saying that and so forth, I get this other guy call me from New York, and he wants my ballet eight ball that I have on my YouTube channel that I had for sale for about six months that I bought way back when one of my first games ever bought.
    43:42
    And it's an original, you know, it's all nicely shopped out, referred, but it's original play field, a little bit of wear, but it's all, everything's rebuilt. It plays great. It's on my mom's house down in Falmouth.
    43:53
    And he's willing to pay up for it. So I made a deal with him, and I'm going to get it out of my mother's house, and I'm going to deliver it to him on July 4th week.
    44:09
    So I'm going to go to New York. I'm going to be in New York for a while. I going to go to New York with my buddy the governor and I going to deliver this thing set it up The guy already gave me he very nice I said just give me a small deposit down a couple hundred bucks to hold it for you, and then give me the remainder upon delivery. No, no, no, I'm going to give you half down now and half when I see it. Okay, you want to throw cash at me? That's fine. It's great. I love my customers. My customers are awesome. Anyway, this guy, very, very nice customer, wants to give me money down, great, and he wants to make sure I'm not going to sell it on him. So he wanted to throw lots of money. Perfect, you know, and I'm going to treat him right. So I'm going to pick it up. I'm going to actually, it's all good to go, but I'm going to pick it up at my mother's house, bring it back here, go through it again, make sure it's all good to go, and I'll freshen it up. It's very little plays anyway on it since I brought it down there. I'm going to make sure it's all set. And then I deliver it to him. And then so on a Wednesday in the middle of July 4th week, and then make sure you're still here there we go and then from there go to our friends then go to above Albany and stay at the guy's place he's going to rent a bed and breakfast for us stay there that night and next morning go work on a day spa on his ramp game and then go back to the bed and breakfast and stay there again and have dinner there and then go to our friend's house in New York, George and Ingrid and go on their boat for Fourth of July weekend while we're out there.
    45:45
    And so it's going to be a very nice, profitable Fourth of July week. It's going to be some nice dough coming in, a little chill, a little boating,
    45:53
    and we love to combine business and pleasure, you know, make a little money, have some, you know, fun stuff at the same time. It's all good. you better wave to Andy while you go by the Capitol I'm not putting that out there you should be proud of it it's a nice thing to say I don't like pitchforks and fire okay so i went to home depot i i asked a uh lady about hey i want to buy this uh grill here you know it's okay well here's what you do and you know give the take a picture of the upc symbol and blah blah blah did all that so i got it i i said well i want to get the one i like the one that's in here versus outside. Outside is kind of dirty and grungy and I don't like what they did to them and whatever. So I got the one that doesn't fold. The little wings don't fold down so it's a little bigger but I think it's going to fit my SUV. My Ford Escape.
    47:13
    So I wheel it out. Buy it, wheel it out, go to the car and it will not fit into the hatch of my SUV. It's like, now what? Now what are we going to do? So I see her come out. She's out talking to some other people. The same person who was waiting on me, this cashier, and it said, hey, you know, can I use one of your orange carts here? You know, you put lumber on and whatever, and, you know, those carts, you got to put bricks on and stuff, and you got to wheel it around and, you know, heavy duty thing. You know, can you get someone to help me lift this on top of one of these carts? I'm going to roll it back to my house, which is behind you.
    47:50
    Oh, well, I don't know if you can take one of those carts. I don't think it's allowed to take a cart back home. Meanwhile, I see my neighbors take carts and carriages and everything. First of all, you should know. Sure. Well, I'm going to try honesty as the best policy first. I'm going to give them a chance to do the right thing. And then when they fail, then I'm going to make it happen anyway. So that's okay. Oh, that's okay. You know what? I'm just going to take it. I'm just going to roll it all the way home on its wheels, all the way home on about a half a mile to a mile. Okay? But no way am I doing that. I'm not going to wreck the freaking wheels doing that all the way home. I don't think so. They're not, they're not, that's not what you're supposed to do with that. No. And then she says, well, you know, you could, you could rent one of our, one of our trucks and get it. It's like, yeah, I'm going to rent one of your trucks. I went over and I, I got one of those like loud, clangy platform, orange carts from Home Depot. And I pulled it over to my car. Actually, no, I don't. I left it over to where it was. There's a bunch of them. And I backed it up to where it was. and I took my Weber grill and I lifted it up on top of myself and got on top of the thing, locked the wheels down, and started rolling it out of the parking lot and I rolled it all the way up the driveway and all the way around and now I'm about maybe a tenth of a mile towards home and I hear like, sir, sir, sir. Someone's yelling at me. No way, they came after you?
    49:14
    Oh, yeah, no, no. She's definitely, she wants to be a police sergeant, but she's at Home Depot right now. So she's stuck there. So what do you think I do when she's yelling after me and I'm walking with the freaking thing and making all kinds of noise with this thing? Hopefully you pushed it like a bob sled. I kept pushing and pushing, and then she's following me. She's actually down almost on my street now still yelling at me. Sir, sir, I'm just borrowing it. Don't worry about it. I'm not keeping this thing. Did you raise the sword while you did it and said, We shall conquer.
    49:51
    No. No, I didn't do that. I just said, you know, don't get your pennies in a bunch. You know what I mean? I just kind of kept going. Trim the jib. Pull in the mainsail. We're going full steam ahead. Full speed ahead. You know what?
    50:12
    I think she's basically saying, you know, you must think rules are for other people. You come in here with automatic. You come and get your own thing. It's like, now you're getting it. Now we're communicating.
    50:23
    Here, I've got one for you. Hi, Captain. You're a little bit of a wanker, ain't ya? Sorry. She's on her phone. She's on some kind of thing, and she's typing something in while she's talking to me. It's like, oh, boy, now she's calling the cops on me. She's going to freaking dime me out and call 911 because this guy that doesn't obey the rules is taking this thing. And meanwhile, I have the sticker. Maybe she thought I stole it. I don't know because I stole the sticker on the thing. Oh, yeah, looting and robbery in your town. Let's go loot the flatbed.
    51:05
    Well, because she watches the news. She sees the looting. So, therefore, I must be a looter. I'm stealing the Weber grill, obviously, with the orange thing. I don't blame her. You had your mask on, right?
    51:20
    No. I did not have the mask on. I did not have the mask on. You didn't have the mask on. You didn't have the hat on. I took my lanyard off for the walk home. No, I took the lanyard off, too. I was going bareback for this excursion. Okay, so what happened?
    51:44
    Okay, so then I unloaded it, and then I rode all the way back, and I see her outside again, and I parked her where it was, and I said, here you go. It's back safe and sound again. Are you good? And she shook her head, and she gave me a thumbs up and said, very good. All right. See, that wasn't that hard. I left my car here anyway, you dumb twit. You know, I had to get my car. Are you stupid?
    52:12
    And the whole time, this song was playing in my head. Yeah. She probably would have let you, even though she couldn't see your identity. Maureen has a good point. She thought I was stealing something without a mask on, and that's bad. I had a mask on. Oh, darn. I can identify him. That's not good.
    52:55
    Without a mask on. Who was that unmasked man? You know what? Arrest him for a COVID violation. It's okay that he took that orange hauler.
    53:10
    No problem. but the covid mask is no good we cannot have the no mask thing we need the weber grill and the orange thing that's all good in fact last night especially to push the limit i had my lovely wife because we were doing a late night lost world ballet service call uh day spa she wasn't in bad shape she actually bought it years ago the family's had it forever 25 years ago someone sort of restored it and uh uh so she again another woman that loves pinball loves classic pinball, not the new stuff. They want old school, which is great, which is perfect for me.
    53:46
    I love when the older games are getting awesome attention. On the way home, it was late. It was like 10 o'clock at night. We're on the highway. We're on 95. All of a sudden, zoom, zoom. I felt like I was in Fast and Furious. These Honda or Acura little Integris. Like three of them. They're all like zooming by me. It's like, ah, I like this. So I downshifted. I put it into sport mode. I started zooming up like 80 miles an hour and get right behind them and go with them. We're all like rat racing up the highway. Maureen's on my case. No, no, don't do that. Come on, honey. This is great. This is like Vin Diesel. I said, come on, honey. Ride or die. Come on, let's go. Ride or die, man. slowing down a little bit to make Maureen a little more happy. I was trying to hand Maureen, I said, Maureen, here, take the mask and put it over your eyes instead. It's better for you. You don't have to see anything.
    54:52
    So, she didn't care for that too much. So, she took hers and yours and made, like, an eyebrow. Yeah. Okay. She did. Okay.
    55:04
    So, so, rag-raising these guys, and all of a sudden, we come to, were going, all of a sudden I see two of the actors, they slow right the hell down. Like, zoom. And I was like, okay, they slow down for a reason down to like 75 from 90 quickly. It's like, I'm doing the same thing. Boom. Right down with them. The other guy kept going a little bit faster and all of a sudden I figured out why. I went to the middle lane. It's like, there's a reason why these guys did this. I see a statey go right by us in the fast lane and he puts the spotlight on the guy that's still going kind of fast and then he zooms by the guy. So he left us all alone.
    55:41
    And you got the name of our state wrong. We've changed our name. Yeah, I know. We are now Maskachusetts. Yeah.
    55:51
    I'm sorry, Rick. I guess I'll return it. Return? Are you insane? Did you hear nothing I said? Buy another one, Morty. Consume, Morty. Nobody's out there shopping with this virus. Where's your wallet?
    56:08
    Oh, boy. Oh, please. I'm trying to keep us, you know, we'll give it a little bit of an edge, but I'm not going to give somebody. But you know who actually does it? You know, Kaneda. I mean, he's kind of like, he's kind of the tip of the spear. and he's a little as much as I enjoy listening to him he's a very very bold person I like that though I appreciate that in person I like someone with that like I said how many times have I talked about him on this show that's true a lot he won't give me the time of day but that's ok we're just as fun as anybody else we just kind of Yeah, we've got to pull the reins back. It's a pinball show. It's not, you know, this isn't 60 Minutes, okay?
    57:34
    Oh, you know But you don't know Where from It hurts to talk And I can't even breathe Money, drugs I hear about drugs So many to choose from I don't know Should I go to the doctor Or stay right here Watch this movie I feel down, down, down The faces and wills
    58:58
    Thank you.