Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Ep 60: Cool Guys Walk Away from Explosions with Tim Lee

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 26m·analyzed·May 13, 2021
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Deep dive into Stern's new Mandalorian pinball: theme, art, layout, and features.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss the official announcement of Stern's The Mandalorian pinball machine with guest Tim Lee. The conversation covers theme selection, artwork design across Pro/Premium/Limited Edition versions, playfield layout and shots, and innovative features like the tilting Mandalorian head and reversible center ramp. The group praises the theme as timeless and family-friendly, analyzes the Randy Martinez artwork as marketable and Disney-compliant, and expresses cautious optimism about gameplay mechanics.

Key Claims

  • The Mandalorian rivals The Office in minutes viewed via streaming, despite having only 16 episodes vs 200 for The Office

    high confidence · Josh Roop, citing streaming data from late January around season finale

  • Pinball machine development cycles take approximately 15 months, meaning Stern would have greenlit The Mandalorian license in the middle of Season 1

    high confidence · Josh Roop and Tim Lee discussing licensing timeline

  • Luke Skywalker appears on the right sling plastic, indicating the game extends through the very end of Season 2

    high confidence · Josh Roop, based on visual inspection of promotional materials

  • Cara Dune character is missing from the game artwork despite being a significant character in the TV series, likely due to licensing/personal life considerations

    medium confidence · Tim Lee and Josh Roop observation; Josh acknowledges actor personal life affects marketability

  • Disney exercises tight creative control over artwork for Star Wars games, dictating color schemes and specific visual directions

    high confidence · Josh Roop references previous interviews and industry knowledge about Disney constraints

  • The playfield layout features a faster-playing right side approximately one-third closer than traditional playfields

    medium confidence · Josh Roop's layout analysis based on promotional images

  • The reversible/tilting center ramp activates based on difficulty level and is tied to the Razor Crest multiball mode

    medium confidence · Tim Lee and Josh Roop interpreting promotional materials and rule descriptions

  • The Mandalorian head is a playfield feature tied to encounter modes that must be completed to progress, similar to Brian Eddy's design philosophy in games like Attack from Mars

    medium confidence · Josh Roop's analysis of game design patterns and rule descriptions

Notable Quotes

  • “It's the Star Wars for people who don't like Star Wars.”

    Josh Roop @ early discussion — Summarizes why The Mandalorian theme resonates beyond traditional Star Wars fans

  • “The Mandalorian felt Star Wars. It felt very much like this is something that connects with people who are both outside of the Star Wars fan club and inside of the Star Wars fan club.”

    Josh Roop @ theme discussion — Explains the broad appeal of the theme compared to divisive recent Star Wars films

  • “Cool guys walk away from explosions, right?”

    Scott Larson @ artwork discussion — References the iconic pose on the Premium artwork, becomes the episode title

  • “This feels marketing-centric... if you look at the premium on a T. I could see about 100 kids wearing it tomorrow on a T.”

    Scott Larson @ artwork analysis — Describes artwork as designed for commercial appeal rather than pinball-centric artistry

  • “If you do a deep dive into the personal lives of a lot of actors, there's probably going to be a lot more you don't have in common with them than you do.”

    Josh Roop @ Cara Dune discussion — Addresses licensing complexity and actor marketability in game design

  • “It feels a little bit like a variation on Congo, which isn't necessarily bad.”

    Tim Lee @ gameplay feature discussion — Compares the Mandalorian head mechanic to classic Congo design

  • “Brian Eddy's notorious for having modes where you have to finish... boss fights.”

    Josh Roop @ encounter design discussion — Identifies the encounter/boss battle structure as characteristic of Brian Eddy's design style

  • “I actually like The Mandalorian more than Back to the Future.”

    Josh Roop @ theme preference — Strong endorsement of theme choice over rumored Back to the Future alternative

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonTim LeepersonZach MinneypersonNicole MinneypersonRay DaypersonBrian EddypersonDwight Sullivanperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: The Mandalorian pinball by Stern officially announced; teased last week, confirmed this episode

    high · Josh: 'Today is the day, the long awaited day when The Mandalorian was announced officially and they teased it last week'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Disney Star Wars licensing secured; indicates strong brand confidence and creative control parameters

    high · Josh discusses Disney's notoriously strict control over branding, color, and asset approval; mentions R2-D2 topper delays as example

  • ?

    design_innovation: Game features tilting/reversible center ramp that adjusts based on difficulty level; unique playfield feature

    medium · Josh: 'I don't think I've ever seen a play field that moves up and down like that'; Scott identifies reversible ramp in middle of playfield

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Mandalorian head encounters structured as boss-fight progression; consistent with Brian Eddy's design patterns seen in Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness

    medium · Josh: 'Brian Eddy's notorious for having modes where you have to finish... boss fights... encounters feel very Brian Eddy-esque'

  • ?

    product_concern: Cara Dune character absent from game artwork despite significant role in TV series; likely due to actor personal life/marketability

    medium · Tim observes Cara Dune missing from artwork; Josh confirms actor personal life affects marketability decisions; Sokolova appears on LE instead

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.258

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast i am josh roop with me my co-host as always scott larson and scott we're changing things up a little bit i want you to kind of run it by everyone yeah so uh we we have uh friends of the show we've been talking about them for a long time uh we're gonna focus on the sponsor of the show but then we'll give a shout out uh so we'll do like one feature thing um in this way it it mixes it up a little bit and that way uh people uh don't just uh uh they can glean two nuggets of information that are important to the show and then we can move on to the information so uh let's start out with the show sponsor flipping out pinball uh zach and nicole mini they just upgraded to full status he is all in this is what he does, give them a shout out if you want to pick up that new game. And maybe there was a game that was just released that you should check out. So check out Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Up Pinball.
1:06
And just a quick shout out, if you want to learn how to do it, go ahead and check out Ray Day Pinball.
1:12
Ray's a great all-around guy, and he knows a little bit about pinball being the world's number one player. And he works for Stern, so all-around good guy. So, Josh, who do we have on the show today?
1:24
So this gentleman has been in and out of the hobby for a little while now. You can find him on different various shows, like Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, The Pinball Nerds Podcast.
1:38
I know that Orby doesn't like to call it a podcast, but The Pinball Nerds, which sadly has retired. and I don't know about if you've ever messaged this man he is just wholesome and awesome I highly recommend you send him a message right now because I know you're listening but we want to introduce Tim Lee. Hey guys how are you I'm doing fine. Tim is graciously staying up a little past his bedtime since he is two hours later and we record at night so we appreciate you staying up late with us. So anything new going on in Tim's life? You know, not a whole lot. I started a podcast that's sort of a segment, a branch of the Poor Men's Pinball Podcast called Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim. I put an order in on a pinball machine earlier. We can talk about that later and honestly just taking care of my family. I'm a track and field coach and my son runs track and field and I've been heavily involved in track and field for the last four to six weeks. So a lot of family stuff going on right now. All right. Well, let's get into it, Josh. Today is the day, the long awaited day when The Mandalorian was announced officially and they teased it last week. so let's talk about it and this is the reason why we're here so first off tim what's your initial feeling on the theme the mandalorian i enjoy the mandalorian but my family had a fantastic reaction to the theme it's probably the only theme where my family went crazy when i told them that there was a Mandalorian themed pinball machine coming out. I enjoy it. We watched the show as a family, so I was excited, but my family is really excited. Okay. All right. So Josh, what about you? I actually like the Mandalorian more than the Back to the Future. And so I was actually kind of glad to see this theme. Don't get me wrong, like Back to the Future is good and all. I just, this is a step up in my opinion. it's funny because I wasn't really looking to buy another pinball machine anytime soon I didn't know Mandalorian would be on my radar it was more like I had to watch and see I really like Brian Eddie's stuff so I figured might as well might as well see what happens and go from there so I'm pleasantly surprised with the reveal I know it's not what everyone was thinking I guess but I don't know I just I feel like there's we haven't really seen a play field that moves up and down like that a mini play field hey hey hey don't don't jump to the end oh well fine we won't jump to the end then so uh but no i think my initial reaction was is i'm pretty excited for it it's pretty cool to see especially a theme that's not even or licensed it's not even too well grand star wars has been around for 40 years but the mandalorian itself has only been around for two so okay it's cool i love this uh this is one of those themes that is current it's relevant and it is um it's a huge streaming cultural experience that people have been able to access the star wars universe where they haven't i i think the last three movies uh mixed i guess it seemed like the last three movies were more for it's the star wars for people who don't like star wars um but okay okay do you know what i mean like if you look at yeah i know you mean if you look at the rotten tomatoes review of the last jedi which is quite polarizing among star wars fans is i would say that star wars fans hated the movie they didn't like grumpy luke They didn't like getting a little more into the politics of war. And it took it to a different space other than, hey, this is your stereotypical fairy tale. It's good versus evil, right, wrong. And that's what my generation who grew up with the original Star Wars, that's what we keyed into. and okay so it it was it was i would say a good movie but it didn't feel like the star wars movie it felt like a big departure however the mandalorian it felt star wars it felt very much like this is something that connects with people who are both outside of the star wars fan club and inside of the star wars fan club and so i would say the theme is a home run and i i'm i'm really glad it's not Back to the Future, actually.
Randy Martinez
person
Steve Ritchieperson
Jeff Pattersonperson
Jon Favreauperson
The Mandaloriangame
Stern Pinballcompany
Disneycompany
American Pinballcompany
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
Tribe Multiballorganization
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
This Week In Pinballorganization
Straight Down the Middle: a pinball showorganization
IFPA/WPPRorganization
$

market_signal: The Mandalorian theme chosen for timeless Star Wars legacy backing; more durable than TV-only licensed games

high · Josh: 'It's got Star Wars backing it so it becomes timeless because Star Wars has been relevant for 40 years'; comparison to CSI, X-Files as cautionary tales

  • ?

    content_signal: This Week In Pinball published comprehensive deep-dive article on game; active media coverage and industry analysis

    high · Josh recommends Jeff Patterson's detailed article at This Week In Pinball as reference material for discussion

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Game designed with faster-playing right side positioned closer than traditional layouts; left side positioned as safer shots

    medium · Josh: 'right side of the play field is a lot closer... probably about a third of the way from the back'; Scott agrees on left safe vs right challenging dynamic

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Guest Tim Lee recently placed order for American Pinball machine; indicative of collector activity and multi-manufacturer interest

    high · Tim: 'I put an order in on American Pinball machine earlier. We can talk about that later'

  • ?

    community_signal: Tim Lee launched Tribe Multiball podcast segment as branch of Poor Man's Pinball Podcast; growing podcast ecosystem

    high · Tim: 'I started a podcast that's sort of a segment, a branch of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast called Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive community reception to Mandalorian theme; family-friendly appeal noted as major differentiator

    high · Tim: 'my family had a fantastic reaction... probably the only theme where my family went crazy'; Josh prefers it to Back to the Future

  • ?

    design_innovation: Randy Martinez artwork styled as comic-book/marketable rather than movie-accurate; designed for T-shirt/commercial appeal

    high · Scott: 'This feels marketing-centric... if you look at the premium on a T. I could see about 100 kids wearing it tomorrow on a T'

    • 6:37
    If they did Back to the Future, they could only do the first movie because the other two are trash. The other two should be Saturday Night Live skits.
    6:47
    They probably are. Yeah, they kind of are. It's almost a little parody with Michael J. Fox playing multiple characters. It felt a little bit like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, hey, look what we can do.
    7:02
    But other than the 20 minutes in the future on the second one. The other two parts are completely forgettable.
    7:10
    So that's my take on the theme. I love the theme. Did it surprise you at all? It surprised me on some level because I felt this is a home run theme, but they would have had to jump on this really early in the development cycle to, the development cycle takes about 15 months. And that's really in the middle of the first season of The Mandalorian. So that surprised me just by the timeline. No, I totally agree. I think that's the hesitation I had, too. When Mandalorian started floating around, I'm like, you guys realize, like, I did the math, and it seriously would have been only four episodes in when they gave the green light on the episode or on the license. Granted, you know, Mandalorian is a huge hit. I just sent you the numbers. I didn't send them to Tim, but I sent them to Scott last week. The Mandalorian rivals The Office in minutes viewed via streaming, which is insane because Office has 200 episodes. Mandalorian only has 16. That was taken at the end of January around the season finale time. So obviously you're going to have pumped numbers, but still, this TV show is a powerhouse. And the other thing I'm thinking about too is you think of the old TV licenses that they've done, CSI, 24. Back in the day, they had X-Files. Yes. Game of Thrones. There's another one. So the thing with a lot of these themes is I feel like you're trying to capture lightning in a bottle because you're trying to at least get the success of the TV show during its peak. So you're trying to capitalize on it while it's hot before it becomes cool, right? And if you look at these previous licenses, there's not anything that just screams. And by cool, you mean like it's old, right? That was so last year. That was two years ago. It's cooled off. Yeah. Cooled off, yeah. And you look at these. They're not bad pinball machines, but you go CSI, really? X-Files? Okay. they're they're they're bad pinball machines i mean come on csi and and x-files they're terrible but the thing with the mandalorian is is it's got star wars backing it so it becomes timeless because star wars has been relevant for the last 40 years so i think i think it's a title that will age well where other titles have not that are tv themes no i i agree and like i stated earlier, it's the first theme that I've ever seen my family go crazy over. And if you remember, when The Mandalorian first came out, just those first three or four episodes, people went nuts over Baby Yoda. And, you know, they, people loved it. I feel like it set a record for the most streamed TV show that was specifically made for streaming. I think it's since been broken, but I think it's a timeless, you know, um, theme as well. Anybody that likes Star Wars likes the show. I agree with a Scott that it has that old school Star Wars feeling, you know, it, it captured my boys because it has storm troopers and all the fun stuff that Star Wars has in the show. My daughter loves, uh, baby Yoda, or I think it's Rogu or Grogu is the actual name yeah yeah and i enjoy star wars as well you know so it it captured my entire family's attention but it's star wars um i think you know every star wars machine is sold probably a lot of pinball machines so i agree yeah and the theme alone is great but you are right in that It is capturing it while it's relevant. And the fact that even though there are more things coming, I feel that they'll be able to integrate a little more into it, considering the first two seasons are almost kind of a complete set. like they are going to have they've talked about having three more seasons but it doesn't feel like you're getting the first six episodes and then there's so much more it actually feels like no you can get a complete story with this well i'm going to try to point something out really quick that um i hope is not a spoiler via the pinball machine or the tv show but if you look at the right sling plastic luke skywalker is on the plastic so it's all the way through to the very end of season two right so that's why i'm like what were they just deciding hey we're gonna do this and uh i just i'm i'm kind of boggled by the whole licensing thing i wish we could get information i highly doubt they're going to give us any information on the licensing and how they do it but i'm like really like how did they pull this off i'm really wanting to know yeah that's interesting because they're notoriously jealous about their license uh disney slash uh star wars especially star wars in that working with their brand and i understand when you have a brand that's iconic like that there's a reason why it's iconic is because you're trying to present it in a certain way. And that's challenging. We all know about the R2-D2 topper that took forever to get out. So, you know, this will be interesting to see how they were able to work within those constraints. If they're able to work within those constraints, I will point out, as Jon Favreau did in doing the Mandalorian, then you can have a home run. Yeah. Do you think that, you know, the animations will have Luke Skywalker in them. You know, I saw the, the sling as well. And I thought, Oh, they, they put Luke Skywalker on there, but I wondered, you know, did they have enough time to incorporate him or some of the other characters in season two into the show? Because when I was looking at the artwork, I believe the one lady was kind of missing from the artwork and that could be a licensing thing. I forget the character's name. I think it was, I think it was Kara. Yeah. Yep. I noticed that she wasn't on there because we just recently watched the second season again.
    13:37
    Yeah, it's we all know it's challenging, right? It's challenging when you mix when you mix actors, backstories and their personal lives into into something. And I'm not going to do a deep dive into this. I would argue that if you do a deep dive into the personal lives of a lot of actors, there's probably going to be a lot more you don't have in common with them than you do. But to pretend that their public personal life doesn't affect their marketability, I would say is naive. And so I'm not going to dig too much into her story, pros or cons, but I will say that I'm sure that affected how featured she was or was not into the game. Gotcha. Well, I'll be honest with you. I didn't know anything happened with her because I don't read the news articles on actors or actresses for that reason. I always tell my family that I don't want to know about them. so yeah but she was a big part of the show and she's not on her at all yeah i actually brought it up thinking that they didn't have time to put her in i had no clue so yeah well no what's funny too is like they're like scott was pointing out there is characters that are far less in the tv series than she is well soko's on the le yeah and she's on into you know into and she i guarantee that spot um originally would have been caridin probably what is your feeling let's let's go pro first what's your feeling on the pro artwork okay let's talk about the vibe first this is my question so it's uh this is the randy martinez art which is very in keeping with what uh what star wars wants to show as the the cartoon version right you know they're uh or the comic version i guess is what they want to call it. So this is different than having the original Star Wars when it had the hand-drawn art. It was the same poses we were familiar with, but it was very recognizable, artistic versions of it. So this version versus a comic book style version. So what is your preference? I prefer the comic book edition. I don't mind, you know, the hand-drawn art that's kind of, you know, from the movie. People like to say it's clip art, but it's not clip art. I don't mind that, but I really enjoy the comic book look. I liked the Star Wars comic art, you know, edition of the pinball machine, and I just, I enjoy this look. I was really pleased with how it turned out i i concur with tim i really like the look of it i don't know if i like the color scheme as much but i do think overall i i like this artwork more than the original star wars that came out well original stern star wars i feel like this hand-drawn not not sharp sharp edges and stuff like that i think i like the premium artwork the most um i don't really like the pro cabinet it's kind of goofy in my opinion but um other than that i i really think it's it's good looking i feel like it's very very typical star wars i feel like if you were to take this artwork off of the back glass if you were to take it off of here and put it as a poster a mandalorian movie poster this would would be your typical star wars poster there's there's always all the characters they're in certain poses kind of all fanned out behind each other and that that's what you got with this i feel like it's very very standard for star wars what are your thoughts scott i think it's very marketable um yes and i know that that's i'm not trying to be insulting but what i am saying is that it feels like a they're going for a certain feel with it. I actually prefer the, the first star Wars. I actually like the, the realistic art.
    18:14
    I would prefer if you watch the movie or sorry, the episodes, it actually goes through and it does like concept art, which I like it. It's stylized. It's, it's a little different. It's really well done. Um, but they didn't go with that. They went with more of the comic book style. And so, although I think it's very functional, it certainly looks like the Mandalorian. It captures the feel of the Mandalorian, but it's just not the style that I, I prefer. Now, that being said, I like the, I like the concept. I like the art. Um, I think the, the premium cabinet i do like that that scene is a fun scene yeah um the the le is nice because it has the razor crest on it but and i'm a little disappointed that they went with the the mirrored sides where one side's exactly the same as the other on two of the three of them um i do like the dynamic aspect of the premium but i think they all are are a solid representation of the the feel is is correct well and i know that steve ritchie kind of allude this until the last interview that we just did um i just think that it's hard to do artwork for disney and star wars there's a certain vibe there's a certain feel I know that we've had other people on our show that have talked about this. This is an open secret, right? And this is fine. Disney tells you what they want it to look like. Exactly. Even down to the color. They're like, this isn't the right color. We need a more blue or they need a less blue or whatever it is. And so I guess my expectation of artwork has been lessened because of that. And I don't know if I should expect more. but when it comes to disney i just don't expect expect a ton i guess this always comes back to like pirates of the caribbean the artwork was fine but the assets were terrible for like movies and stuff like that so i guess you kind of get what you get and you don't throw a fit right with disney if you want to play ball you either play ball with them or they're going to take their their assets and go home so right right and i don't mean this to sound i'm not being dismissive of the art. I actually, again, I think it's a solid representation. Um, if you look at the, at that, any of the back glasses or the trans lights. Okay. Now imagine in your mind going into Walmart in the children's section. And can you imagine a t-shirt with all of those on there? Yeah. Yeah, and that's really what I'm trying to say is it feels very marketable for the Mandalorian in that a lot of pinball art is very pinball-centric. This feels marketing-centric.
    21:22
    No, I agree. I looking at Turtles right now when you said that and it a completely different look and feel than the Translite And the t example makes perfect sense because I could see the premium on a t I could see about 100 kids wearing it tomorrow on a t Definitely. And that's not bad, by the way. It's not bad. I'm just saying that it's just a preference. Well, it's doing its job, though. Like the whole job of commercial artwork is for you wanting to buy it. Like I agree with Tim. Like you look at this premium. If you, if you want to follow along, we're at this week in pinball, we're checking out their top article. So long as nothing has switched within the day that we released this, uh, they did a deep dive, Jeff Patterson. This is a fantastic article. You did a great job, but seriously, like this, what is it? Just the Mandalorian. I can't remember if he has any other name besides Mando. Yeah. Um, okay. Yeah. Mando is short for Mandalorian. Yeah. But I'll look it up. Anywho, so he's walking away with Baby Yoda. There's explosions in the background. There's stormtroopers on one side and the dark side. And then his team with Boba Fett and everyone else on the left side. And it just feels very, like you said, you could slap it on a T-shirt and you could probably sell it. And the kids would be wearing this at school tomorrow. Oh, that's interesting. I just pulled up IMDB, and I know he's got a name, but it just says as The Mandalorian. Yeah.
    23:03
    I know he has a name too. Anyhow, so let's move on. So I think we all agree artwork is good. It might not be perfect to some. It does the job for me. It's a preference, right? It's just a preference. There's nothing wrong with it. You don't have to justify it. In my opinion, I think the premium artwork is better than the pro, which is funny because it's usually vice versa for me. I usually feel like the pro, for some odd reason, has better artwork than the premium. I guess except for when it came to Avengers.
    23:34
    I kind of like the pro translate better than the premium, but I like the premium cabinet and side art on the back box better. So you're telling me you're buying a premium, but then you're going to sneak into Stern and get a pro translate? I like the Pro Translite. I think it's actually pretty good. I told my kids I'm going to try to get a hold of a Pro Translite and put it on premium. Well, honestly, the color scheme, they match each other. It's not like you could take the LE Translite and put anything on anything else. But yeah, I guarantee you could take that and slap it on the premium, call it good. I don't know. I like them both. But I still think I like the premium more. I don't know. cool guys walk away from explosions right right the uh now the le it feels like a complete package i like the le it it does feel like an le the the challenge that they're going to have and i understand why they painted it in a silver color because you know that's the best car right and so it's that's supposed to be the the exceptionally valuable rare metal that the Mandalorians use. So I understand the color scheme. It feels a little more subdued. It feels more like a journey in space as opposed to a dynamic conceptual action scene. Except for that right side of that cabinet with him. Oh, yeah. Hold on. That is cool. Yeah. The turret gun. Yeah. But if you look at the if you look at the side art on this on the premium, I mean, you know, that's the big rescue when all of the, the Mandalorians come to his aid. So, and that's a good scene too. I mean, it's a great scene. Yeah. They've really hit some, I love that the child artwork up, uh, up by baby Yoda is him in the cave holding the egg. He's got the worms in a bowl there. And there's just, they've captured some of the best moments of the TV series in artwork form in this game. And I, I do applaud them for that. I'm a little surprised Baby Yoda is smaller on the premium, but he's not as featured in the premium as he is on the pro. But I guess that you're still going to recognize it, right? Well, you have a, what is that, like an 8, 10 inch tall Baby Yoda? That's the first thing your eyes gravitate towards. What's Baby Yoda doing back there? Yeah, it's a creature trying to escape from the pinball machine. Even with his hand out, he's like, please save me from under this glass. Yeah. It kind of looked like Statue of Liberty a little bit. Kind of. Okay.
    26:18
    All right, well, let's talk about some of the features of this game. Let's talk layout. I feel like this layout's very unique. One thing I did say to Scott, I don't think I told this to you, Tim, but I feel like this is going to be a very fast game just because the right side of the play field is a lot closer. It's at least – it's probably about a third of the way from the back of the play field. Well, it's just past halfway. Yes. So usually a lot of shots are really in the back third of the play field. But these feel like they're about two inches closer. Definitely. And I feel like that left side is going to be your safe shots. And then I feel like the right side is going to be the thing that tests you. And so I think this game looks like it has some really good shots. I don't know if this tilting play field's ever been done before. But before we move on to that, what are your guys' thoughts on the shots? I think it has some really nice shots. I think that right ramp looks really tight. You know, that's the only shot that looks like it would be super difficult. I kind of like those. They call it a horseshoe ramp, but I always call it a flip-up ramp on the right side as well. I kind of like those. They have a couple on Jurassic Park.
    27:43
    I think they have one on Zeppelin. I've grown to really like those. The longer ramps that feed the left and the right out lane seem to be longer shots, so I don't know how fast those will play. But I agree with you, Josh. It's kind of a unique layout. it has that kind of inner loop that i guess that's supposed to unlock that flip up horseshoe ramp but i think you're right where the left side is going to be the safe side of course that's where the two pops are i think there are two pops there and i think your right side you know i think if you don't make the shot you might pay for it just based on looking at the layout and i'm curious to really see in person how that how the the ship shot works i i you know it looks like it has a target that rises up and opens up a shot to a back ramp so i'm curious to see how hard that shot will be to hit because i can't tell from the pictures how wide of a gap that is once you you know open up that shot but i think it's really really cool um i think i'm counting three or four ramps i like ramps a lot so you know it it really seems to be like it's going to be a fun and fast game to shoot well the one thing that i'm having a hard time looking for too is is like you're saying with the razor crest it it states that if you hit that shot so many times then it it makes a multi-ball ready and it raises the center ramp and so i don't know if that is the uh exactly what the center ramp if if it's that horseshoe you're talking about then then turns into an actual like a u-turn i don't know it's it's gonna be interesting anyway sorry i cut you off scott go for it oh i'm trying to find where that reversi ramp the one that uh the goes inverted where is that oh it is right there in the middle it's so the premium is oh yes the straight up the middle one yep yeah not straight up the middle so you see razor crest yeah look to the right of it to the right with the it's got the red flap the red lamp on top of it okay if you're looking on the premium or the le oh okay gotcha okay got it i think this is gonna feel kind of like elvira maybe like pirates of the caribbean just i'm relating shots i can think of to play fields that are similar to this that that you know the longer left side that's closer right side anyhow are you concerned about two flippers only no okay i like that now i will say that this is what I initially thought when I saw it and it's probably just because I owned the game.
    30:22
    I thought, okay, what's that upper right thing. I hope that thing's more fun than Shrek's was. Yeah.
    30:30
    And, and, and those flippers, is it more of a, a gimmick thing or is this going to feel different? A lot of those things, I, it feels a little bit like a variation on Congo, which isn't necessarily bad, but with Amy under the play field and you just hit the buttons until you hit all the lights.
    30:53
    So it'll be interesting because those are full-size flippers. I don't know how the invertedness of the play field, if that's going to change. It does, yes.
    31:06
    So my understanding is it's based off of difficulty. so um i'm just wondering how much that'll affect it like oh gotcha that doesn't really um you know that doesn't really do much different but who knows maybe it will um yeah i i do like the it seems sweepy i don't know a better way of saying it but if you look at the shots on the right they really flow deep uh sorry from the right flipper uh right to the left they flow deep it feels like they're going a long way away from the play field yeah um you're right i think the left side uh if you look at from the left uh flipper sorry that i i'm reversing a little bit but the right side of the play field that does look like the more brutal side of the play field so it it certainly looks fun do you think it looks overcrowded um because i don't think so That can be a problem, right? Yeah. Well, Houdini, you could fault Houdini with that problem. Yeah. Too many shots and not enough space. I would say Turtles with the glider. I would say my glider, it does get a little bit in the way of my visualizing the shots. You have that giant razor crest in the middle. I hadn't thought about that. But I think the razor crest you could probably take off, too, if you needed to. Sure. But I'm just shooting here, just wondering.
    32:40
    Now that I got thinking, now I'm looking at this a little bit more. The left side, there are some closer shots as well, like the actual moat hole where – oh, I can't remember his name either. Good crammy. I'm a terrible fan of – Carl Weathers. Yeah, Carl Weathers. Apollo Creed. Yep. If you shoot his shot, that's fairly close. And then I guess the ramp is close as well on the left side, but it looks like it's wide, so it shouldn't be too terrible to hit.
    33:09
    I don't know. I think all in all, I think this is going to shoot fun. Yeah, I'm certainly looking forward to it. So I got thinking. I was like, this is really random. The Mandalorian head, I know we've touched on this a couple times, so I really want to focus on this. I thought it was really random because many play fields usually there's people kind of complain about them because I don't know they slow down the flow if you have the right size ball it feels too small if you have the smaller size ball it feels too floaty and too gimmicky I think it's interesting because I'm like what the heck is this about you know you read the deep dive and it sounds like there's encounters obviously in the movie the Mandalorian encounters a lot of people and so there's going to be different encounters and based on the difficulty of the level you're going to have to finish the mandalorian helmet to finish that encounter right but then it got i got thinking about it i'm like brian eddie's notorious for having uh modes where you have to finish oh what's the word i'm looking for i almost want to call it boss fight you know i'm saying like it's attack from mars you've you've got to finish the ship it's uh it's medieval madness you've got to destroy the castle these encounters feel very brian eddie-esque to me because of that reason it's like oh well you're gonna have to finish this encounter and then you'll be able to then move on to the next one so i at first i was like i don't know if i like it but now i've gotten thinking more and more about it i think it's a really cool concept. And if it's integrated really well into the game, I think it will be fun. I understand people are concerned that like the ball is going to slow down, but I'm not too worried about that just because like Jurassic Park, the ball stops and in Avengers, the ball stops. And I don't tend to notice it as much just because there's moments in the game. So I think so long as this game is coded properly, I think you're not going to notice when the ball diverts to the helmet and the helmet's adjusting to where it needs to be for your difficulty. John, what are you guys' thoughts? It's fine. You want to change the speed of the ball. If you have a play field that has uncontrolled speed, then the ball becomes a little out of control. One of the genius moves that Keith Elwin did with the ramp up on Avengers is that it actually controls the speed and so you can hit the repeatable shots um but most of the time when you hit a you know it's it's like the warp ramp on star trek or something there's only so many times you can hit it before it just is too fast and it gets out of control so i i like being able to have some controlled shots even on the upper side of the playfield yeah when when i looked at this i'm an upper playfield guy i really enjoy upper playfields you know i'm not a i'm a black knight sort of rage premium guy you know the pro is too fast for me so when i looked at this i really enjoyed it but once it slows the game down it feels like once the ball is in in the helmet it's going to be really fast up there like you're gonna you know it's gonna the targets are so close and I don't know how powerful those flippers are if they'll have like a shorter end of stroke switch but because they're full-size flippers but I thought man that's going to be a little bit crazy up there and it sounds like they can't be full power they can't they can't yeah but it sounds like it's gonna you know be involved in an encounter that's going to show something on the screen so I thought okay I like upper play fields I didn't know if I would like this one but i i watched a little of the the video and i i read the twip article and i thought that's kind of gonna it's gonna be kind of cool i like it you know i like looking at it but then the second thing i always think of is are my guests going to like it because i prefer a pinball machine to be more of um i play for the experience and i play to get through the modes and enjoy the game i don't play for points even though i send you guys my points sometimes because it just happens that I get some big points along the way, but I immediately thought, are my guests going to like this? And is it going to be too fast for them if the ball is bouncing off of their targets? But I think they'll like it, you know? So I think it'll, with the encounters, I think it'll integrate into the Star Wars theme very well. I agree. Well, it's funny too, if you watch the premium video, it kind of shows it off a little bit more and when it's not as steep it seems like they can keep the ball up there for 10-15 seconds i mean it's not that long because the video is not that long but it felt like they could hit the shots a little bit better but when it goes that super steep like the hardest difficulty you watch it's they have to like show it like three or four different times because they only make like one or two shots and then it drains out instantly so i hope i hope it's not a common thing to get to the steep the steepest level because i think you'll get frustrated with the fact of like you've hit your two shots and you drain out so you've got to then qualify the helmet again so you can get it up on the helmet to make two shots. You know what I'm saying? It becomes a wood chopping thing and it just gets frustrating. Right. I agree. I'm always concerned that a feature overpowers in difficulty. And you're right, Tim. I was a little surprised, and I've said this before, that my brother was over at the house after I had Avengers and I'd been playing it a lot. And I asked him, hey, how did you like it? Because he came over and stayed at my house while I was out of town. And I said, how did you like Avengers? He's like, I couldn't really figure out how to start it or do things on it. And I was like, huh, that's really interesting because that's different than what I would have thought. But, yeah, and there's a reason why I have, like, Attack from Mars. There's a reason why I have Medieval Madness because they're easy to understand games. so I do like that and as the complexity of the new games comes out I am concerned that the casual player that comes over is not going to like it so speaking of other people because I've got a World Cup soccer I know that you've got an attack for Mars Tim what's the game that usually people go to first for you is it Guns N' Roses? Stranger Things, 9 out of 10 times Okay, and that's basically Attack from Mars It's the same game So I totally understand that I was going to say, when I think of these games I think of, there's something easy That people can see that go, wow Like, on Attack from Mars It's shooting the ship, on World Cup Soccer It's shooting past the goalie and making it a goal Stranger Things, you hit the Demogorgon In the middle And you follow the lights It's easy, and it's a nice theme So everybody goes to that game first Every time my only concern with this game i know the very first thing people are going to see and i guarantee no one's going to argue with me on this is the second you see this pinball machine you see this baby yoda or grogu or whatever you want i guess that's his official name or the child he's in the back left and he's static which is fine but do you feel like they kind of downplayed him in the game of what it could have been. Yeah. It would be nice to hear kind of the, how baby Yoda evolved because when I saw the stranger things premium and how they locked the balls on the back of the, the play field, and it was a Brian Eddy game, I immediately thought there's going to be a magnet in Mandalorian. It's as soon as I heard it and I had some conversations about it. And I didn't think, I don't expect a lot with pinball machines because it's very mechanical and things break and you have to reuse parts, right? You don't, I'm guessing they don't want to make something where they can't find, you know, get the part manufactured in, you know, five years. But I thought that there would be something where a ball ended up in his hand and the magnet is below. And I saw, you know, you see like five seconds of the magnet, so you don't know what what happens but i fully expected something to involve yoda and i simply thought it would just be his hand whether the ball landed on his hand or it picked it up off of the ramp or a post you know that stopped it on a ramp but it doesn't bother me um one bit you know i still were buying the game for my family but i did expect exactly what you said i expected yoda to do something yeah and and i've heard that's what i've heard across everything is baby yoda eating a ball or baby yoda even having the head move a little bit like what you would have on simpson's pinball party and not necessarily having the magnet back by him but maybe having it in the play field and you know him raising his hand and stopping the ball in the middle of the play field front and center i feel like also the stopping the ball back by him i don't it becomes that like line of sight thing that scott was talking about with the razor crest i hope people can see that back there too but i don't know i'm happy with the model i think honestly out of any of the toys that stern has done this one looks fantastic it really looks lifelike in my opinion like well as lifelike as you can make a yeah a baby yoda yeah yeah and it exists in the pro Yeah and that the cool part too It in the pro People complained about Avengers and the what do they call it
    43:07
    The handmade rubber glove? The dishwasher glove? Yeah. The palm olive glove? Yeah. This is totally opposite of that.
    43:15
    It's an excellent sculpt. I always worry about real estate in games, and it's a big sculpt. so if you take it out is it taking out of possible shots um it's certainly eye-catching but if you look at Avengers the uh you know the dish glove it's it's kind of hidden back there it doesn't really get in your face on obstructing the play um but he's you know he's kind of tucked up in there and so i just hope that it's not too big that's the only thing i was thinking he seems kind of over overbearing you're hoping they didn't compromise play filled shots for marketing yeah yeah it's marketing right you look over there and you're like hey baby yoda yep i guarantee this game out on any location someone's gonna stop and look at that baby yoda oh sure yeah they're gonna stop and go wait is that baby yoda like i know that's just how it is it's it's perfect um yeah so i i think that it it certainly is is out there so okay um okay i want to talk about the accessories now so i know this is probably a little off course you do topper man yeah hey they don't they didn't show the topper anyone disappointed by that I was not shocked by that. I'm waiting for the keyboard. For an R2-D2? Yeah. Where's the guy that said, where's the Star Wars top? Where's the Mandalorian top? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that guy. Every single thread. Where's the top? Okay. You know it's coming. Any of these things interest you. So it looks like they have alternative armor. So you can get the armor with his gun, whatever that's called. Yep. You can also get the shooter rod, which looks like that little steel knob thing.
    45:15
    And then you can get the – let's see. What's the other things? You can get the – now, they did this with Jurassic Park where the art blades that you can buy are different than the LE. So we'll talk about that. And then we all know there's a topper coming. We don't know what it is. but any of those things interest you because i i know there's one thing i do want to talk about but i want to see what you guys say i think the gun armor stuff is really awesome really okay yeah i think that's pretty cool i don't know if i'd buy it but i think i think it really the problem is though if you put this in a lineup how much of it's going to be yeah buried buried yeah i don't know that's what's up to me okay i like i like side blades i never did but then i purchased a set for one of my machines and i thought oh those are kind of cool i'm not a huge fan of the the heads on the side blades i like more of you know like jurassic park you had like different scenes on the sides but these are characters on the side so i don't know if i'm crazy about it i do like the gun but for the same reason i don't buy armor because it sits between my machines and nobody sees it and there's a topper coming and i might have ordered it already so i at least put myself on the waiting list for it i shouldn't say i haven't ordered it okay i am in the camp i'm pro topper um i actually just got the led zeppelin topper and by the way Like, in person, it looks really cool. So I was on the fence on that one, and it's cool with the lights. So keep that in mind, topper fans.
    47:05
    The Art Blades, really not a fan. There's a big difference, it seems like, with the LE and the Premium. and the premium on Jurassic Park also, they were significantly different. And I'm not going to say inferior, but it is a completely different vibe. With Jurassic Park, they had the giant eyeballs, right? And with this, you don't have the environmental art blades. You get the Mount Rushmore of bad guys, right? Yep. um so if i were to get art blades for this i would have to consider getting like um like an aftermarket one yeah tilt graphics usually has really nice yeah they do and it's kind of sad because i like the i like having the continuity of having the same artist do it yep and so on turtles i bought the you know i bought the the zombie yeti ones because i like the continuity of it but i will not i my style i'm not interested in the mount rushmore's watching uh as the art blades i think they they won't sell that many of those i don't think yeah i agree and turtles was a scene i have i have the turtle blaze as well and it was a scene that integrated into the playfield so you're absolutely right so i i i think this was a this was a miss to have just the faces but who knows maybe i could be in the minority just like i'm in the minority and the in the art direction style but uh i would like to have more of an environmental feel like they have in the le i don't know i think and this is just me i'm not a fan of the shooter knob it's fine it's yeah i i bought the jurassic park one because it's cool it illuminates right it's that thing is awesome And it's totally cosmetic. I totally get how ridiculous it is. But it's cool, right? Okay, so tonight I had a church group over, and they brought the 14-year-olds, and it was kind of fun because we were – I asked how many people have played a pinball machine, and one person raised their hand. And it was really interesting and went through. And, of course, what questions always come up when you have people come over? They still make these? Yeah, they still make these. How much do they cost? Bingo. Those are A and B, right?
    49:46
    In that order, usually, too. Yeah, usually. Yeah, they still make these? Yep. How much do they cost? So I went through my lineup, and I said, well, okay, this is Black Rose. This is the cheapest one I have in my lineup. It's probably between $2,500 and $3,000 now. And then I talked about other ones like the Stern Pirates of the Caribbean, which Tim is a proud owner of.
    50:12
    And Spider-Man, I was like, yeah, these are probably around $5,500. And then I pointed to some of the premiums I have, and I was like, well, these are probably about $7,000, $7,500. And then I said, and there's some LEs, which are probably about $9,500, right? And it's just interesting when you point out those things that it's such a weird thing. But my friend who came over and brought the kids, I said, well, you can get different things. And he said, yeah, but I think the topper is really cool. He's like, I like the bells and whistles. I think it looks really cool. And so I said, exactly. That's why I bought them, because I think it's fun to come down and you're getting an environment. that's why I have a two and a half foot tall Mario in my basement because it's a total dumb thing that I bought that is just fun I smile every time I see him and I have an M&M that's the same size too so just stuff like that but with the Mount Rushmore I wasn't a big fan the shooter ball and it's cool if you really want that I don't know I know it's appropriate for the theme, but it's probably not something I would get. The side blades or whatever, the side armor, I think it's great.
    51:37
    And if you want to buy it, then that's a good thing to buy. But you're right. It's on the side of the game, and you're not going to see it much. And so unless you're really into it, then it wouldn't be a must-buy. But I'm with Tim, though. I texted Zach and I said, I want a premium and I want a topper. So I'm a topper guy. Yep, me too. We actually just got the Stranger Things topper a few weeks ago. That's a cool looking topper. That made me want to buy the game, actually. Yep. And my wife made me get the shooter knob as well. So the game looks beautiful. And it really is a nice topper in person. We're glad we bought it. Yeah, and I think the Blacklight mode. So there are things that I think, wow, that is a really upgrade to the game. I think the topper on Stranger Things is one. I think the Blacklight mod is one of them with Led Zeppelin.
    52:34
    Okay, I'll point this out too. I was a little disappointed that they didn't integrate some side lights like they have in Led Zeppelin. And I know it's not a music thing, but those lights are really cool in Led Zeppelin. Yeah. I would have liked to have seen those as well. But, Scott, I don't know if you know this. Stepping back, you had said you had the Mario. Between my pinball machines, I have a train layout. So I like the neat stuff in the game room. A train layout. Okay. You'll have to send me a picture of that because my son is huge into trains. And I have been trying to find ways of having him enjoy that, but I can't have him have an entire room full of like model trains where like you have the whole layout. It's a huge hobby. And it's got – I know it's ironic when I collect pinball machines, but I'm like, and that's a really expensive hobby for a 10-year-old. It's cheaper though. It's cheaper. Yeah. You can put the trains around the top of your game. Actually, every time my kids go to a restaurant where there's a train that cycles, people are like, we should totally do that. I'm like, yeah, dad can't do that. Yeah, I will send you a video because I have three pinball machines, a train layout in the middle, and three pinball machines on the other side. All right. Okay, that's good to know. Yep.
    53:58
    Okay, back to Josh. Okay, are you buying any of these accessories? No, I'm not. I'm one of those guys, I don't know, I like to play the game when I'm done with it, it moves on the next thing comes into the collection I'm kind of that person that I just don't bling stuff out because I just don't I just, yeah You're not all about the eye candy No I'm not about the toppers I guess I'm more about the play of the game than I am the looks of the game You're a hardcore gamer Don't know about that But my last thought about Mandalorian, I think we've kind of covered everything, artwork, shots, functions in the game, accessories. My one thought is you own a Star Wars, a Stranger's Thing, Tim. Do you feel like if this game came out before Stranger Things, do you think that Brian Eddy would have been received better? Because if you remember, when Stranger Things came out, it was very polarized. And granted, this game isn't 100% like everyone says it's a win. Well, I do think that if Mandalorian came out first, it would have been received much better than Stranger Things. People would have been saying, Brian Eddy's back, and he's awesome, and he never lost it. And I think he unfairly got a bad rap with Stranger Things because I tell everybody that it's a fun game. It's not my favorite game. It's middle of the road in my collection, but it attracts the most people. And I just played it tonight before I got on here. And it's a fun game, and it's the oldest game in my collection. But to your point, if Mandalorian came out first, I think he would have gotten a much warmer reception. but it's interesting now stranger things is starting to get popular and i think with this game you're going to see brian eddie get popular so people might go back and say hey i like this game let's go buy his other game you know stranger things you know it might rise it might raise both of their popularity i don't know but i think this it looks like a really good game it's different from anything he's done you know it doesn't look like shadow it doesn't look like stranger things But I think he – that was a long-winded answer to, yeah, I think that it would have been received differently. I think you're right as well. I think that it really would have been a good entry point. Granted, Mandalorian pride may exist back when Stranger Things was released from Lance's licensing standpoint. Could have been Rogue One. Yeah. I just – yeah. What are your thoughts, Scott? Do you think it would have been good for Eddie to release something layout design-wise like this instead of Stranger Things? The challenge with Stranger Things is that it's been done.
    57:07
    It felt like a reskin. If you look at Attack from – see, I have Attack from Mars. I love Attack from Mars. And it's not going out of my collection anytime soon. but the i when people saw stranger things they reacted as if hey you liked family guy right here's shrek and it felt and it felt like a reskin and so that's really where the disappointment was when people were crestfallen it's not that they don't think he's a good designer they just wondered if he had anything else other than a a perfected fan layout which is which is what both of his excellent games are attack from mars and medieval madness they are perfected fan layouts and they are different enough that i have them both but they're also similar enough that i think people said really this again i that's the challenge with with that is that people wanted more and it felt it felt like a very safe thing and probably safe to a fault so what do you what i guess where were we taken away from mandalorian obviously we must all like it i've got one on order you've got one on order tim's got one on order you you're getting the we're all getting the premium yeah we're all getting the premium so obviously we see something in the mini play field and the magnet and the moving ramp.
    58:43
    And it is my first premium. Oh, really? I've always gone pro, so I went premium this time. I thought you had the Stranger Things premium for some odd reason. Nope, pro. Dang.
    58:57
    This will be my second premium. I was more of a pro guy as well, but I think the problem is, how did someone put it? Stern is starting to differentiate between the pro and the premium a lot better. So it makes you feel like you're missing out if you don't get the premium. Yeah, that's my feel is that these are home games for me. And I understand that $1,600 is a jump. However, I look at a game and I think, I kind of wish I had that one cool feature. yeah so it's it i don't know i i i was i was going back and forth with my friend who's another collector and i said i was trying to figure out on like turtles and he said hey when you buy a car do you get leather seats i said yeah he said okay get the premium because it functionality is exactly the same right but there's something nice about paying for the the leather seats so So that's why – The functionality is not the same. I have twins, and the functionality between cloth and leather is entirely different. Yeah. Okay. No, and that's – however, when we bought sofas, we bought the leather because they actually hold up really well to abuse. Yeah. So – but what I'm saying is it'll still get you there, right? Yeah. So, yeah. No, I'm a fan. I'm super excited. This is a perfect theme. I think this is a great one for Eddie to, I guess, reboot. This is kind of a reboot. Okay, you put out Stranger Things. It wasn't received super well. Let's see what else you can do. And I would say this looks to be a solid effort with a solid theme. And Dwight on Code,
    60:57
    we were beta testers for Turtles, and I think we'll be beta testers again. So I think this is a good opportunity to look at what Dwight does. And Dwight, this is a plus and a minus, is that he's not afraid to take risks on coding. So it'll be interesting to see. Do you get a Star Wars complexity of a code, or do you get a Monsters version? I think you're probably going to get something in between.
    61:28
    This is me guessing. I was slightly nervous just because I loved a white code, but because he did the original Star Wars, I was nervous that people would be like, oh, crap. Like, we're just going to have Star Wars 2.0. The multiplier, the 40 multiplier, which no one ever played. But yeah, it's he gets unfairly criticized, but he is passionate and he has he is willing to try something. I think this will be actually a pretty safe coding experience just because the theme is something that's going to sell a boatload. And so you're going to have to find that middle ground between too easy and too hard. Yep. I agree. I think – and I think the thing about Eddie, because obviously he's going to be having his input on code as well because he had with his other games. I think that you're going to start off easy and you're going to progress into harder and harder, just like you do with Keith L1 games. The first thing is usually pretty easy. The first one's free, right? Yeah.
    62:37
    You have the – well, and what does Keith say? You have the gimme multi-ball, right? Yep. And that's going to be that with Razor Caress, especially with a shot right up the middle. Right. Well, that could also be a dead shot. You know, that reminds me of the swinging bell in ACDC.
    62:56
    Oh, yeah. I hadn't thought of that, but yeah. Just enough to slow the ball down. But can you imagine if a stand-up target were there? Oh, man, that would kill you. But it looks like it's weighted just enough to slow it down. So all in all, I think we're happy with the result, right? Yeah, I think it was great. Well, I think that does it for Mandalorian Tell. the reveal, the official live stream reveal of the premium is the it's in 10 days. Is it the 20, 21st? Somewhere around there?
    63:27
    Somewhere around there, yeah. I've got it here. I really wish Stern would just have something taped. I don't really see the need to have an interactive session, but who knows? I am also not in marketing, so do not take my words on marketing maybe maybe there is something to be said about hey uh i can hop in and i can interact and ask questions so but i would be totally fine with them having a recorded sessions like hey this is the tutorial for this do this do this do this and this is how you progress in the game but i do wish they would have something similar to that is something a little longer than the three minute video something showing the game in action and not all chopped up like and that's the one thing like granted stern knows how to do the marketing it's not me but like the one thing that was driving me nuts about the videos is you're watching them and then it would cut in a scene from the tv series which is great like if that going to be the the actual back the animations and stuff then fine but like i want to see the pinball machine like you the game reveal trailer was a minute and 12 seconds and you showed me the pro and the premium and 20 seconds of it was at least footage from the tv series like if i if i'm only getting a minute i want it to be of all that pinball machine but hey i'm not the marketing guy so yeah zach knows what he's doing keep up the good work man let's move on from mandalorian let's talk Steve Ritchie. I know that Tim reached out to me. I don't know if he talked to you, Scott, but Tim, what was your thoughts on the Ritchie episode? Honestly, it was one of the, the, my favorite interviews that you guys had on your show. I just enjoyed it. I mean, there was no real special reason why, you know, Steve is kind of a, an animated character. You know, he likes to, you know, do the voices and so forth as he talks. You know, I liked, I liked the fact that he just said he was kind of tired of doing licensing and did another black night sort of rage. And he, I enjoy that he, you know, brought some, you know, some folks into his office and talked about them and, you know, I enjoy that he kept giving other people credit, you know, for things that, you know, that, that had gone on in some of the games and he gave you just a little bit of you know what went into the games and how things were developed but overall he's just a he's just a nice animated guy and i was working in the yard and thoroughly enjoyed the interview see and it's funny because i had a fair amount of people reach out and said this was their favorite interview and maybe it was i was i was confused and the reason being was i saw how much editing i had we had to do a c virtue there was a lot of work that went into that interview because Steve has a hard time hearing and he alluded to that in the in the interview itself and we had to do like a zoom type conference call so he could reach our lips and I was on a computer that did not have a webcam and so it's kind of Scott it's Scott heavy because he could see my lips because I was on a video thing so well I don't know if it's that but like Like some people are like – they messaged me like, what was the secrets that Steve was giving out? Why did you have to edit? Like you can clearly tell there's this spot and this spot are edited. What did he say there? And I'm like, you want me to be 100% honest? Like he was just having a hard time hearing. So a lot of it is like rephrasing the question and then having Scott say it so that way he can read Scott's lips and then me saying the question again so it sounds better. And then there was times where Steve – someone would come into his office or there would be a random tangent, and I had to edit that out. And so Steve's like – well, I mean John Rothamil left that part in. It was like that. There were no secrets. There were no secrets from Stern. This was us trying to skinny it down to a better palatable episode. But even people at Stern reached out to us and said, what did he say? I was like – Yeah, he was fine. Yeah, he was good. We don't do the gotcha journalism. We're not that kind of show.
    67:49
    So it was fun, but seriously, it was the most edited episode I have ever done. But, okay, I will say it's nice to see Steve because Steve is a genuine guy. He is genuinely interested in pinball, and he is genuinely interested in interacting with people. so he likes being Steve Ritchie he does so it's uh it was fun um I I got I got a little bit of a push back when I said that uh Street Fighter wasn't being made anymore okay I know they're still being made um but I I would say that I would say the relevance how dare you I know I've always said I prefer Street Fighter over Mortal Kombat I I actually think Mortal Kombat is too gory for me.
    68:38
    Especially the latest ones. They're really over the top. But it seems that there's an appetite for more of that. So I tend to see it more, pushed more. I could be wrong, but again, I'm not much of a video game player anymore.
    68:54
    But either way, it was a fun interview. It really was. It felt like it was a behind-the-curtain on Steve Ritchie. So it was just, he was a genuine guy. Well, it was nice to talk about the William days. I can't remember if it made it in or not, but he did talk about, it did. He talked about still going past Williams every once in a while and just kind of seeing the building and remembering some of the things that happened there and the glory days. Because that's a lot of where his pinball career started and took place. All right. So we're all fired up for the Mandalorian. and it looks like we were impressed enough to all get in on the premium. Were either of you tempted on the LE? Okay, the LE is insanity. What is going on with this, by the way? Like, I know we're running out of time, but it's time to start wrapping this up. But, like, can we just talk about the LE insanity for just a couple minutes? Yeah, well, you see it with almost every LE. this is one of those where it's a hot theme and it's impressive so now will I buy in a I've bought Ellies and I have a Jurassic Park Ellie I have the Avengers Ellie I don't know I actually preferred the premium art package on this and I also need to start a little more of Josh's attitude of love them for a while and then move them on because i can't collect every single machine and like not every machine can be a forever machine it feels easier for me to let go of a premium than an le so that's why i bought a premium but is it insanity like i was talking to one i've been talking to a couple different distributors and they said that the le as soon as people mentioned the mandalorian like that it could be the theme like a month ago distributors have had lists that are 50 plus people for almost a month now like these are sold out before even it was officially announced this is ridiculous like this is and it's even more ridiculous that like distributors are starting to sell that like the one that was auctioning them off like he wants everyone to have the opportunity to buy one of these so okay okay so let's talk about that because i actually did go a little back and forth on this because someone posted on this And I actually – okay, I will say I'm not a fan. However, I would say that this is supply and demand where the MSRP is the suggested retail price. And I know the caveat is – and Taylor Reese, friend of the show from this flipping podcast, he pointed out. He's like, I said, like, this is this is a free market and they're they're charging what the market allows. And he's like, well, he didn't agree so much. There was a free market since they had a set basement price, which which I'll agree. OK, that that is the caveat. But if you have a concert. So, for example, we just bought tickets to Jim Gaffigan. OK, and there was a my wife went to a reseller price at first and she's like, man, these seem crazy prices, but they were selling them for four hundred dollars. OK, however, the we bought them and they were I don't know, they were like 70 or 80 or something like that. Right. But if we wanted the premium seats, that would have been 250. Well, if the reseller price is able to buy a ticket for $50, but resell it at $150, then that tells me maybe Jim Gaffigan should be selling the ticket for $150.
    72:52
    Yeah. so it's this weird kind of give and take where i don't necessarily love that the market that there's so much demand and it drives the prices up but on the flip side there is so much demand like if i had a machine would i say well i i'd like to like i'm gonna sell it to you because that's the that's the msrp but this other guy wants to pay me five hundred dollars more and so what's the difference if i sell it to you for that and then you're like hey i got a mandalorian here new in box who wants to buy it i get that but i was thinking also like make a thousand le's make 1500 i i don't know people were saying this was coming people were saying you know distributors are going to start doing this because this is what happens in other markets but i got thinking about they've already done it and granted beetles was a different beast yeah but wasn't that the exact same thing exactly yeah they had the base they had the premium and then the the limited edition no they didn't have the base and premium they had a premium so they had the gold edition they had the platinum edition and the diamond edition so i was trying to make it more relatable to the listener right okay no but i'm saying they basically had the entry level which was a premium and and then they had a deluxe and a super deluxe but with the super deluxe stern never gave out a price on those they just said it's with the platinum either was the platinum as well yeah it was the it was as well what you did is you bought you were committed to buy i think it was 14 games you had 10 golds uh three um um three of the platinum and you got one diamond and you paid the same price for all of them. And it was up to you to assess what the market value was for the three in the one. Are you sure that doesn't sound right?
    75:01
    I'm totally right on this one. I don't know. That sounds. Does that sound right, Tim? uh i have no reason to disbelieve him are we giving away like stern secrets here i feel this was common knowledge it was talked about a lot i don't know about anyhow but my point being is i feel like this has already been done once before so it would not shock me if ellies because of their rarity because of their demand we do start seeing hey your your base pro is is six thousand your your premium 7800 and then call your distributor for an le because at this point i i kind of agree with like distributors should be getting somewhat of a kickback because not only do the le sell out quick and they should be making a premium off that they still do get what's the proper way to put this jerked around like i know people that call multiple distributors that are like hey this is how much i'm getting it from this guy how much can i get it from you and granted they're all supposed to have their own little base price and they're not like stern says you're not supposed to go below that but there's some people that see gray area in that I don't know how you do, but I, yeah, like there's just as much the consumer is, is taking advantage of the low prices as the distributors of the high price. So I feel like it kind of balances itself out. Yeah, I, I, I feel that, or here, okay, here's my wish. My, my Chris, my, my Ted talk from me to you. I would like everybody who wants to buy the LE to be able to get the LE.
    76:55
    So if there's a thousand, if there's interest for fifteen hundred, I think they should sell fifteen hundred. They should get that money. But I also understand there is something about the the perceived scarcity. And hey, this is what this is what it is. And so, hey, you missed out the last LE. Maybe you'll jump in on this one. So there is a perpetuation of the myth of scarcity that does drive demand. I'm spooky sold out in four hours on, you know, on Rick and Morty. So what does that say? It's the perceived scarcity, right? so uh i i guess it it is what it is but uh i'm glad they're able to sell i'm glad they're not sitting there like kiss did the le kiss that would just sat around and finally they just almost gave them away like uh wrestlemania still is oh geez they they buried them in the in the same dumpster lot that uh the et game from the atari did in 82 oh don't even get me started on atari games yeah but anyway like i i yeah it it's it's sad that the prices are that way but on the good side that means it's a healthy demand for the product and you're getting i would say the difference between the premium and the le really isn't that much it's not like you can you're paying for the the privilege of having the le and yes it already has the blinged out stuff it has the invisible in invisible glass it has the upgraded sound package it has the side art it has the shaker motor has the mirror back glass but really the play field is exactly the same as the premium and there's a billion premiums out there okay but but I want someone to send in to Josh and tell him that I am right on the pricing of Beatles.
    78:56
    We're going to get an email from Zach Sharp that says, I cannot confirm nor deny. Yeah, I can neither confirm nor deny. Yeah.
    79:06
    We'll find a distributor. There's always one out there. Yeah. Well, actually, that wasn't a secret. I'm pretty sure they actually announced that.
    79:17
    I don't know. we'll we'll we'll find out yeah someone someone i'm getting tired i'm getting tired i know if i'm tired tim's about to crash out in front of his computer so um yeah we're we're good tim i i want you to i want you to plug your show because really i know that we talked about at the beginning but i don't think people are hearing enough tribe multiball is really fun i think the part of this industry slash hobby is there are people that fall through the cracks that don't really get – that should be talked about that don't get to be on a podcast or whatnot. I feel like you interviewing these tribe members is really cool because it gets them to tell their story and feel like they're more part of the hobby. So I want you to talk about your show a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So Tribe Multiball, I'm part of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast tribe.
    80:11
    Somebody has to be there to watch over those guys and be the nice guy. So that's my job. And they have this tribe that they concocted this crazy tribe idea. And I always wanted to do a podcast. So I decided that I was going to interview the tribe members because as I got to know Drew and Ian and in their group, the men and women in the tribe, I started to realize they had a lot of cool things going on. And so I was looking for a co-host and, you know, Rachel Lilje offered to, you know, come on and be a co-host with me. So all we really do is we interview the tribe members and they're just, you know, average people in the hobby and just talk about how they're playing pinball, how they got into pinball and what they're doing into pinball. And we're discovering that, you know, some of the folks are just like me. They like to play pinball in their basement and talk about it. others are taking pinball to another level starting tournaments having kids tournaments and we're learning more about the people there's a gentleman we interviewed last Pete Quint just real quick you know he has a instrumental band and the sole purpose of that band is to raise money for the children's hospital in Columbus Ohio and they did kind of the project pinball thing where they work with them raise money and put a pinball machine that's going into Children's Hospital. So we just do about an episode every week or two, just talking to the various tribe members and just seeing what they're doing in pinball and how they're playing in pinball. And it's great. It's just, you know, normal people talking about pinball. You know, nobody's really tied to the industry or anything. So that's our show. I mean, it's usually about a half hour to 45 minutes, and we have about 41 episodes to do with the tribe members. And we're on episode number seven that should come out in the next couple of days. Very cool. And it's, it really is fun. It's, it's a good listen. If you're looking for something just to, uh, keep you awake or whatever, that's the show, man. There you go.
    82:23
    Yep. So, so how can people contact you, Tim? If you want people to reach out to you and send messages and, and talk pinball with you, is it an open tribe?
    82:33
    It is. Um, generally I'm on Facebook. I would, go to the Poor Man's Pinball podcast page and you can find me there or just friend me on Facebook, Tim Lee on Facebook, send me a direct message.
    82:49
    I'm there, but there's a lot of Tim Lees in the world, so go to the Poor Man's page and look me up and send me a message and I love to talk pinball. I talk to most of the podcasters out there. Alright, well that sounds so send us your feedback. Are you excited for Mandalorian? Is there one that you have dialed in on? Did you get an L.A.? Why did you get an L.A.? Anyway, send the feedback to Loser Kid Pinball. And thanks for tuning in. Sorry we probably went a little long, but we try to keep it to around an hour. So, Josh, why don't you send us on out? So just a quick shout-out really quick to a friend of the podcast, Beehive Pinball. You can find him on Pinside. He is recreating stars right now. If you need a stars play field for your Stern pinball machine, please hit him up. Mike Lund is a fantastic man. He does a lot of great work. We've checked out his stuff personally, and I love it. The 2.0 stars is polarizing, but he is making the original play field as well. You can get those both off of his site, BeehivePinball.com, and he has a new one coming out soon. So we'll tease that right now, but keep an eye out for that. And if you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinball at gmail.com. Sorry, no, we're LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. You can also get a hold of us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, at LoserKidPinball. We're happy to talk pinball with you. Shout out to Charles that's been talking to us. One of his favorite locations is Sunstein Laundromat up in New York.
    84:26
    Anywho, great having you on, Tim. It's always a pleasure, Scott. I'm excited for this game. I don't know about you, but I'm always excited for Pinball Reveal Day. And I woke up and I felt like I just hate using this. Well, I don't know if I want to use that reference. You're a kid on Christmas. I felt like I was a kid on Christmas. Yeah, let's do that. I was going to say Billy Madison from, well, Adam Sandler from Billy Madison. Nudie Magazine Day. No.
    84:57
    You're getting a little too excited about pinball. You know what I'm saying? Any. Wow. Just go with Pinball on Christmas. Pinball on Christmas, and I probably will cut out the Bill and Madison thing. But, anyhow.
    85:13
    Thanks again for tuning in, and as always, we'll see you in a couple weeks. Shut up and sit down. Thank you. you