#40 - Pinball Moments Are Real

A Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·20m 25s·analyzed·Jan 29, 2021

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.026

TL;DR

Modern pinball has plenty of moments; players just need skill and rule knowledge to find them.

Summary

The host argues that modern pinball machines DO contain meaningful 'pinball moments'—exciting gameplay sequences and rule modes—contrary to common community sentiment. He contends that players often lack the skill or knowledge to access these moments, which may be coded far from the start button or require understanding the rule set. He provides extensive examples across Stern, Jersey Jack, Spooky, and American Pinball titles to support his thesis.

Key Claims

Pinball moments exist in modern games but are often not accessible to casual or unskilled players due to placement in code or difficulty of execution.
high confidence · Host's extended argument throughout episode; stated explicitly: 'the reason why a lot of people truly think that there's no pinball moments... is that players are simply not good enough to get to see these moments'
Many recent Stern games allow direct access to wizard modes from the start button, making some moments more accessible but reducing the satisfaction compared to earning them during play.
high confidence · Host discusses recent Stern releases: 'you can choose instead of just playing a regular game you can choose to go directly to the wizard mode and it kind of... it's not near the same sensation'
Moments in modern pinball fall into two categories: those that happen naturally close to the start button, and those players must earn through skill and rule knowledge.
high confidence · Stated explicitly: 'There's either moments that will just happen naturally in the game for you... Or there's moments that you have to actually make an effort to create in the game'
Games like Avengers Infinity Quest, Iron Man, Game of Thrones, TNA, Dialed In, Walking Dead, Metallica, Ghostbusters, and Guardians of the Galaxy all contain excellent accessible moments.
high confidence · Host provides detailed examples of specific modes and mechanics across multiple manufacturers' games throughout the episode
Understanding the scoring system and rule set is essential to accessing and experiencing pinball moments; casual players who ignore scoring miss a massive part of the game.
high confidence · Host states: 'if you're not worried about scoring you are missing out on a massive part of the game... the scoring in the rule set is there for reasons it's there to guide you'

Notable Quotes

“I feel like one of the big issues with this is that, one, players are simply not good enough to get to see these moments or experience these moments.”
Host (A Pinball Podcast) @ ~7:00 — Core thesis statement; directly challenges community sentiment that modern pinball lacks moments
“That whole gamma spinner is close. All you gotta do is just basically collect one Hulk, just hit the spinner enough, and eventually it'll light. Whereas Iron Man, that's a little bit more difficult to do.”
Host @ ~13:30 — Illustrates the distinction between accessible and difficult moments across games
“Scott Denisey killed it with that particular moment... TNA, Destroying a Reactor. That is excellent. If you've ever done that, you know what I'm talking about. The light show goes nuts.”
Host @ ~18:00 — Praise for specific designer work on Spooky Pinball; example of moment accessible on simple playfield
“I can't describe the feeling. That is a moment right there... when it's not virtual and Groot's mouth is going up and down, you've got to time it just right and the pressure's on.”
Host @ ~28:00 — Emphasizes the physical, tactile nature of pinball moments and how virtual versions diminish them
“the better you are at pinball i promise you you're going to enjoy your moments a lot more”
Host @ ~54:00 — Summary of host's core argument linking player skill to moment appreciation

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyScott DeniseypersonBrian Eddyperson Avengers Infinity Questgame Iron Mangame

Signals

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community_signal: Host encourages home game owners to adjust difficulty settings to enable wizard mode access, framing it as gateway to confidence-building and deeper engagement with rule sets
high · Host: 'if you have home games and you haven't gotten to a wizard mode yet set your game up to allow you to get there that's okay... because at least you can experience it. Maybe gain a little bit of confidence'
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sentiment_shift: Widespread community belief that modern pinball lacks 'moments' compared to classic/vintage games; host was asked about this repeatedly by multiple community members during recovery period
high · Host states: 'this has been talked about by other people, and that's why a lot of other people are kind of talking about it to me' and 'I had this conversation with several people and it was brought up continuously to me'
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design_philosophy: Vintage game design (Attack from Mars, Theatre of Magic) made accessible moments easier to reach, setting expectations that modern games should follow similar accessibility patterns
medium · Host contrasts vintage games where moments are 'easier moments to get to' with modern games where 'expectations go that if something cool is happening on a machine in the 90s, it automatically should happen today'
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design_philosophy: Effective moments require well-choreographed integration of code, lights, sound, and mechanical action; incomplete code support diminishes moment quality
high · Host on Demogorgon in Stranger Things: 'Unless the code really supports the lights, the action, the sound, just everything put together. If it's well choreographed together, that moment will really feel great for the player'
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Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.061

0:00

Welcome back, guys, to another episode of A Pinball Podcast. I appreciate you guys being here. And, oh my gosh, it has been quite the past couple of weeks. It's just been nuts. Like, right now, my neck is feeling so much better. For those that don't know, I had a slight neck injury, and I won't go too deep into it. I'll just say pretty much getting old sucks. Don't sneeze when you're not fully prepared for it, or you'll basically throw your neck out. It just is insane. But as of right now, I'm still able to move it around mostly, but sometimes I can still feel like a twinge in my back. I don't know. But enough of that. You guys didn't come to hear my injury stories from sneezing. You guys came to hear about pinball, and that's exactly what we're going to talk about. And of course, during my time off, I've had plenty of time to really think about things, all things pinball pretty much. And I've spent a lot of the time on the couch, of course, talking to various people around the hobby that have all kinds of different opinions on it, on anything to do with pinball. And one of the things that really stood out to me, and I had this conversation with several people and it was brought up continuously to me. And I've, I really realized that this is on a lot of people's minds. And that one thing is the, the word pinball moments or the words pinball moments, or just the thought process of pinball moments. Now, you know, I hear this thrown around a lot, and admittedly, I'm like, I am so far behind any other pinball content right now. Legitimately, probably about a month behind at this point on most aspects of it. So if this has been talked about by other people, and that's why a lot of other people are kind of talking about it to me, then that makes sense to me. But that's where we're going to come from today. And really the thing that I've noticed that a lot of people seem to believe is that pinball lacks the so-called quote-unquote pinball moments. And that's very interesting to me because I have a very – a much different take on what pinball moments are and how I believe pinball moments really work, especially with modern pinball.

2:16

All right. Sorry about that, guys. still take a sip of my green tea that has not changed one bit and i think about this a lot and i've thought about a lot this past week and i feel like the big issue or there's a couple issues dealing with pinball moments in general and i'm of the stance that i believe that there are pinball moments now when i get into this you guys keep in mind i'm talking just for myself i obviously i'm not exactly just a casual player. I mean, you guys can see up here behind Baby Yoda that I've played a little bit of pinball. I wouldn't say I'm world-class. I'm not even going to approach that. There's no way I'm not. I'm just flat out not. But I feel like I know my way around a pinball machine, and I can kind of articulate what I'm thinking when it comes to really thinking about pinball and what it means, especially for anybody that's wanting to really dive into pinball besides just seeing blinking lights and just flippers. I think the game goes a lot deeper than that. And so that's where I'm basically going to come from. This is the spot I'm coming from. Now, to me, the issues dealing with pinball in general is that there are pinball moments. But I think a lot of the times, the reason why a lot of people truly think that there's no pinball moments, and again, I know this might be a hot take. Again, it's not aimed at anybody. I promise you, I'll look in the camera. If you're on YouTube, I'll look at you guys right now. This is not about anybody in particular. This is just about the industry as a whole when we're discussing pinball moments. I feel like one of the big issues with this is that, one, players are simply not good enough to get to see these moments or experience these moments.

4:07

And this is due to a couple of factors, all right? It's either one that they don't care to get good enough to see these points, you know, which is okay if you're so casual that you're not really working on your game or you're not working on different aspects of it. It's totally fine. I get it. Or it could be that somebody simply plateaus in their skill level and no matter what they do, they just can't measurably improve on their game at all anymore. Like at some point, everybody's going to hit that plateau. Now, the other deciding factor is, besides just talking about the player in general, it could simply be that maybe a lot of these moments aren't coded close to the start button. And what I mean by that is, is it's possible a lot of these moments are not easily accessible to the casual player. Right now that changing though a lot with a lot of the recent Stern games that have been coming out that changing simply because you have access to a wizard mode at the start you can choose instead of just playing a regular game you can choose to go directly to the wizard mode and it kind of i don know for me it's a little bit different it's not near the same sensation when i'm playing a wizard mode just directly from the start as compared to actually getting there throughout the game now I know what some of you are thinking right now or at least I'm going to take a wild guess if you're listening to this podcast you might be thinking to yourself well Travis I honestly feel like there's no pinball moments right now you know you may think that these moments left in the 90s and I'm here to tell you that in my opinion they haven't and I've got a list of games too that I think have excellent moments and this list isn't just Stern this list also involves Jersey Jack It also involves Hot Wheels or American Pinball with Hot Wheels. It also involves Spooky. I mean, there's so many different games that have all these different moments. And I mean, just going off a few of them, for instance, Avengers Infinity Quest, that Hulk spinner, when the gamma spins start. If you've experienced that, you know what I'm talking about. It is awesome when all of a sudden that ball hits the end lane on the right flipper and the spinner lights up. You hear the music just kind of change. The adrenaline starts up, and you've got to crush that spinner. And when you do, it's possible you could get massive points. And, I mean, just the whole game just goes nuts. It's really awesome to do. Another one is Iron Man with Do or Die. Okay? Do or Die is basically a countdown. If I'm remembering right, I think it's 35 million to where this is where you collect everything in the game on one ball, and you can light it straight up the middle. and it gives you a countdown from 30, I think it's 35 million, down to, it's like a hurry up, basically. But it's very exciting to hit it. I mean, it's a moment. It is. If you've done it before, you know what I'm talking about. Now again, this goes back to coding things that are close to the start button. With Avengers Infinity Quest, that whole gamma spinner is close. All you gotta do is just basically collect one Hulk, just hit the spinner enough, and eventually it'll light. Whereas Iron Man, that's a little bit more difficult to do. I don't know too many people that are just casual players that can do that consistently. Maybe you're out there, but if you can do it consistently, I'm telling you, you're not just a casual player. You're pretty damn good at pinball if you can do that consistently because it's a hard thing to do. Other examples are Game of Thrones with Iron Throne, right? Hand of the King. Those are two things I think that are excellent moments. with Spooky Pinball, TNA, Destroying a Reactor. That is excellent. If you've ever done that, you know what I'm talking about. The light show goes nuts. The sound is great. The rumble of the machine is great. And yet it's a simplistic play field, and you still get that feeling. Scott Denisey killed it with that particular moment. I mean, that is awesome. With Dialed In from Jersey Jack, when you get to Armageddon, which I believe is when you play through all the modes, or you at least start all the modes. I forget exactly how to do it, but it's fun. when you get there. It is so much fun. Other examples, older stuff, Walking Dead. All right. Again, a game that a lot of people did not like when it was first released. And then the code really matured. And now it's turned into an excellent game, like a top tier A-list game. When you get to horde mode, that's a lot of fun. When you're dropping walker bombs, that's a lot of fun. When you get to last man standing, that's a lot of fun. then we can move on to other examples metallica sparky you guys think about this that's an easy mode right there that is close to the start button machine goes off you can hear the call outs you see sparky going nuts i mean it's an excellent mode and it's an excellent start end of the line wizard mode where basically you play every single crank it up that mode is hella fun and nobody can sit here and tell me or tell me anytime that that is not a moment and that is but again that's a moment that is way way far away from the start button and i don't know how many people have actually got there but it's there ghostbusters ghostbusters looping supers i believe that's when you get to 60 ghosts something like that that is a lot of fun midnight madness that's set up on that game and that's on a lot of other stern games as well that's a lot of fun if you've never experienced Midnight Madness and your pen has that, you need to at least make an effort to experience it one time because it is actually really cool when it happens. Another thing on Ghostbusters, Storage Facility Multiball. The start of that is fantastic. Even Guardians of the Galaxy. Guardians of the Galaxy has several moments I absolutely love. Take Groot Multiball, for instance, all right? Anytime when you hear the pen scream out I am Groot there balls going in the mouth there balls coming out of the mouth I know it weird that Groot is a bash toy but you know what It pinball It pinball You got to line up and have fun. It is pinball. And something like that, that is pretty cool. Now you take it a step further, right? Cherry Bomb.

14:50

All right? Then you can take that confidence to the next game. And you can try to see a moment in that game. I'm telling you guys, it's there. And I highly recommend you really start exploring that part. Now, if you are the type of player that you don't care about score, all you want to do is just see the ball do something crazy, that's fine. That's perfectly fine. Guns N Roses is a great example of that Now the scoring and all that It fine But obviously as soon as you plunge on that game it is a moment Like the moment is as soon as you plunge because all the lights are going off the sound the music I mean, that part is really cool. So there's options out there for everybody. But really what I'm getting at at the end of the day when we're talking about pinball moments, I truly believe they are here. and they're here for everybody, for multiple manufacturers, for everybody. They're here. I mentioned Hot Wheels earlier. One of the big moments that I really enjoy on Hot Wheels is a moment that you have to create. It's basically stacking two multi-balls up together, and then it's boosting your scoring, the 10X, to where you hit that kickback, right, that's on the right-hand side, basically. It's a kickback that automatically boosts your scoring. And then from there, you can let your scoring go nuts. You can let the balls drain real quick. Pop bumpers are going nuts. You see your score start to go up higher and higher. You catch it on a flipper, and you send that bad boy up there for a jackpot. It's huge. I've gotten some scores there that were two, three, four billion just on the collects there. Now, I get it. We're talking about score again, and we're talking about understanding a rule set. But again, that's something that I had to create. that's something that the people that designed that game and the people that coded that game they put that in there for the player to experience that but the player has to earn that moment that's the key you have to earn some of these moments on these machines and that's the difference all right in pinball some moments are there directly at the start button they're there and that's great other times you have to earn it now the big difference is when you take a theater of or you take an attack from Mars, those are moments, right? That you do have to earn, but they're easier moments to get to. And I think that's where a lot of people kind of get a little bit, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for? To where their expectations go that if something cool is happening on a machine in the 90s, it automatically should happen today in modern days, all right? Of course, mechs are different, but they're still cool stuff. They're still magnets on games. Take Avengers, for instance, right? It L one literally designed for that Avengers tower, something that goes straight up 90 degree angle and catches on a magnet. All right. That's pretty cool. But, but add in that if you're in Ironman multi-ball, right, that's a jackpot right there. And again, you have to know the rules to get to this unless you just luck into it. But if you get it up there during an Ironman multi-ball, that's a jackpot. Guess what? You can send another ball up there or another jackpot. I believe it's even a double jackpot, if I'm not mistaken. And that is a big moment because you see both balls catch with each other. The game goes nuts. It's a lot of fun. I'm telling you. But you have to know that that's there or that's possible to experience that type of moment. Does that make sense? Am I making sense for you guys? That's what I want to know. Besides that, what moments do you guys enjoy in pinball? Do you guys believe that these modern machines don't have moments? And if that's the case, that's fine. But what machines do you believe have moments? All right. Again, just like I was talking about Attack from Mars, that moment when you're talking about destroying a saucer, that's easily accessible for the player. That's a great example of that. And Brian Eddy kind of got that back a little bit with Stranger Things with the Demogorgon. Now, I have to say a caveat. It's a brick shot on that. It's an insanely tough shot. But now that the code has come along to where there's supporting features of it, now that it acts as a bash toy, it's a lot more tolerable to me. And actually, it's a little bit fun. Whereas when I played it a year ago and all that stuff wasn't coded in, it wasn't much fun just hitting in the mouth once and then missing it 15 times and nothing was really happening. That's the thing. You can have these options in a game, but unless the code really supports the lights, the action, the sound, just everything put together. If it's well choreographed together, that moment will really feel great for the player. That's what I'm getting at. And again, find those moments in your games. Find those moments. Work towards those moments. work on your game a little bit more and i'm telling you telling you the better you are at pinball i promise you you're going to enjoy your moments a lot more all right so that's all i got guys i just wanted to talk about that a little bit just because i was asked that question a lot and i've discussed this a lot with different people what do you guys think let me know in the comments down below other than that i appreciate you guys so much for watching and i think that's that's all i got for now i'm gonna go put some icy hot my neck and maybe uh take some tile and all now. That's what I really need. Anyways, guys, thank you guys so much for being here and you guys have a great weekend and I'll talk to you guys soon. Later guys.