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Episode 50 - Deeproot, Show Me Something

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·48m 12s·analyzed·Apr 30, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

SWL celebrates episode 50 while questioning Deep Root's direction and featuring Cary Hardy on pinball content creation.

Summary

Special When Lit celebrates its 50th episode with hosts Ken Cromwell and Bill discussing the show's memorable moments and guests. The episode covers significant industry news, particularly Deep Root Studios' expanding portfolio beyond pinball (VR, board games, film, etc.) and concerns about their lack of concrete pinball product announcements. Guest Cary Hardy discusses his YouTube channel focused on pinball restoration and maintenance content, now partnered with Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Show.

Key Claims

  • Deep Root Studios has expanded beyond pinball to include VFX, film, TV development, video games, VR, card and board games, and augmented reality

    high confidence · Ken and Bill discussing Deep Root's website listing multiple product categories

  • Deep Root originally promised to release five machines in a quick and efficient manner and out-manufacture all other pinball companies

    high confidence · Ken describing Deep Root's original announcements and expectations from 2019

  • Deep Root has not yet released a physical pinball product as of this episode

    high confidence · Ken and Bill's repeated concern about lack of tangible pinball machine from Deep Root despite years of announcements

  • Deep Root released a teaser video called 'Raza' (Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland)

    high confidence · Ken mentioning 'controlled leak' and teaser video from last week

  • Cary Hardy started in pinball by purchasing a $25 Valley Sea Ray EM machine at an auction

    high confidence · Cary Hardy's personal account of his entry into the hobby

  • Cary Hardy's YouTube channel videos are being incorporated into Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Show

    high confidence · Ken and Cary discussing partnership with Greg from the show

  • Deep Root has Barry Oehler, Dennis Nordman, and Steve Bowden working on pinball projects

    medium confidence · Ken mentioning designers at Deep Root without confirmation they are actively working on current projects

  • The Raza teaser video animation could be for smartphone games, computer games, or pinball machine LCDs

    medium confidence · Ken speculating on the multi-platform nature of Deep Root's animation content

Notable Quotes

  • “Just show me something. Yeah, all right, see, but that's a double-edged sword, though.”

    Ken Cromwell / Bill @ Deep Root discussion segment — Encapsulates the tension between wanting transparency from Deep Root and understanding why they might hold back unfinished work

  • “It's like the mod maker, right? That comes in, says, I'm going to make this DMD mod. They get 90% of the way through it, and then they kind of start another mod... There's all these unfinished projects.”

    Ken Cromwell @ Deep Root discussion — Metaphor comparing Deep Root's scattered portfolio approach to classic mod-maker behavior of starting multiple projects without finishing

  • “Didn't Dig an Inch.”

    Bill (referencing Terry) @ 50 episode reflection segment — Memorable guest quote that stood out to the hosts from previous episodes

  • “I would be happy to see a whitewood from Deep Root. I would be happy to see an assembled cabinet with a whitewood inside of it.”

    Ken Cromwell @ Deep Root discussion — Clear statement of minimum expectation for Deep Root to maintain community confidence

  • “I am just somebody that loves the hell out of pinball. I mean, that's essentially, in a nutshell, the simplest form of fashion of that is just someone who is almost always thinking about something pinball-related.”

    Cary Hardy @ Cary Hardy introduction — Self-description establishing Cary's passion and identity in the pinball community

  • “The bug bit me whenever I turned it on, and it at least had some form of life. I was like, oh, this is like solving a puzzle. I like this.”

    Cary Hardy @ Cary Hardy origin story — Moment where Cary discovered his passion for pinball restoration and problem-solving

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill BrandicepersonCary HardypersonDeep Root StudioscompanyStern PinballcompanyDwight SullivanpersonJack DangerpersonBarry Oehlerperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Deep Root Studios has significantly expanded its product portfolio beyond pinball to include VR, film, TV development, video games, board games, and AR applications

    high · Deep Root Studios website lists categories: VFX, pinball, film, TV development, video games, VR, card and board games, AR

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Raza (Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland) teaser released via controlled leak; animation could be for pinball, smartphone games, or computer games

    medium · Ken notes teaser video released last week; animation content ambiguous as to final platform

  • ?

    business_signal: Concern that Deep Root may be spreading resources too thin across multiple product categories without delivering core pinball product

    high · Ken explicitly compares Deep Root to unfocused mod makers with multiple unfinished projects; notes lack of pinball delivery despite years of announcements

  • ?

    content_signal: Cary Hardy's YouTube channel content being incorporated into Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Show partnership

    high · Cary and Ken discuss partnership with Greg from the show; content distribution strategy agreed upon without exclusivity

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball content creation expanding with multiple creators (Cary Hardy, Leon from Pinball Supernova) focusing on tutorials, restoration, and community engagement

    high · Discussion of content strategy and efforts to grow pinball exposure through YouTube and media partnerships

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.145

0:00
coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land welcome to what seems to be episode number 50 of the special when lit pinball podcast my name is ken cromwell i am bill what bill i want to congratulate you we've survive 50 episodes of special when lit so thanks for coming along for this ride this journey with me well thank you for having me and i didn't do it when we hit 20 we were like dude what are we gonna do when we hit the 50 yeah we were like we're not gonna get to 50 yeah there's no possible way well hey we're here apparently the sun does shine on the dog's butt once in a while you know right we're getting some tans going yeah on the uh on the backside but what's going on with you man what's happening ah man just living the dream working and uh yeah that's about it i'm looking for the next pinball project because whirlwind should be uh winding down soon but other than that that's about it i had uh i had my daughter's birthday party we hosted yesterday and uh full disclosure before i babble and mumble through this episode i am on like four hours of sleep it's currently about seven o'clock uh chicago time on monday after we record this podcast we're going to jump on stream and we're going to go from i think about eight o'clock central to about 10 and I'm already on E. So if I am even worse than I normally am as far as being able to speak and articulate, I apologize. So I should have brought like a six-pack of Jolt Cola? No, man, I don't like caffeine in that type of capacity. But, yeah, you know, we're going to see what can happen. I'm going to sip a little beverage here and see if it gets me through the show. Nice. I did want to ask you this, and we've got a pretty big show as far as news to cover. We're going to jump in a little bit of Deep Root. We've got Industry Buzz coming up with Kerry Hardy. We've got our Drain It or Save It segment. We wanted to talk a little bit about Slap Safe Pinball Podcast and their new addition to their team. We've got your Whirlwind update. We've got some special lit updates, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But before we move forward, as we are now in 50 episodes, I was just curious if you had any, like, favorite moments of podcasting on this show or if you had any moments that were disappointing that you didn't particularly care for. And I just wanted to take a minute or two each and just kind of reflect a little bit. But, again, it's not like we hit our 200th anniversary here, but for 50 episodes, especially when late, it's been fun. It's been sometimes a grind, but more times than not, it's been a good time. Well, you know what? Honestly, some of the best times, I'd have to say, are meeting some of these people that you've looked up to and got to play their games and the people that coded them. Being put in these positions that you've got to meet people, play games that are just coming out or pre-release. So a lot of those things have just been awesome. And don't forget some of the wonderful one-liners that some of our guests have provided us.
Dennis Nordman
person
Steve Bowdenperson
George Gomezperson
Gary Sternperson
Brian Eddyperson
Todd Tuckeyperson
Wally Gorkowskiperson
Robert Muellerperson
Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Showorganization
Greg Boneperson
Leonperson
Raza (Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland)game
~

sentiment_shift: Ken's patience with Deep Root's lack of transparency and product delivery is visibly wearing thin despite maintaining stated support

high · Ken states 'I'm running out of the patience' and 'I'm just losing interest in following this as closely'; suggests avoiding Deep Root discussion until product shown

  • ?

    design_innovation: Bill expresses interest in augmented reality implementation in pinball machines, using clear glasses to add non-invasive visual layers

    medium · Bill contrasts AR with VR and describes hypothetical AR application similar to Zen Studio arcade mode graphics

  • ?

    event_signal: Special When Lit celebrates 50th episode with reflection on memorable guests and moments

    high · Episode focused on milestone reflection; hosts discuss favorite guests (Jack Danger, Dwight Sullivan, Brian Eddy, Todd Tuckey) and holiday special/Willy Wonka reveal

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Barry Oehler, Dennis Nordman, and Steve Bowden mentioned as working at Deep Root Studios

    medium · Ken references these designers working at Deep Root without confirmation of current active status or roles

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Implicit concern that Deep Root's initial manufacturing promises (outpacing all competitors, releasing more machines than industry) have not materialized

    high · Ken recalls Deep Root's 2019 promise to release five machines quickly and 'more pinball machines in 2019 than all the other companies combined'

    • 2:50
    The best one, I think, was Terry with Didn't Dig an Inch. Didn't Dig an Inch, Bill. Yeah, I like that, too. Just some of those have just been just so awesome. Do you have any favorite guests that have been on the show or a favorite interviewer, too, or a favorite show that we had done over the last 50? And I'm catching you off guard because I know you're not walking into this thinking it all out, and there are 50 episodes, but I was just curious if you had anything that stood out. I love the holiday special. I love the holiday special, too. That really stood out. That will, you know, and you put a lot of work in that. We both put a lot of work into that show, though. No, no, no. That was mostly Ken. Got to give credit where credit is due. Team effort. You know, just sitting there doing that, that was awesome. The Munsters reveal was awesome. And more recently than not was the Willy Wonka reveal. Yeah. That panel discussion. That was such a great day. And being put in those positions that we were able to see such great things and see the ins and outs of that machine beforehand. And honestly, just everything encompassing into this hobby that we've got to experience has just been awesome. It's funny. We've had like you talk about pinball moments like there have certainly been like podcast moments for us over the last 50 shows. One of the things that we talked about when we got into the podcasting, when we talked about if we were going to have interviews, you know, at first we said, you know, be great to have Dwight on. And Dwight, he's always been solid for us. So Dwight Sullivan from Stern Pinball, lead programmer there. It's always great having him on the show. I think he's been on the show three times. Having Brian Eddy on the show really meant a lot to me because it was a situation where Brian really had, I guess for the lack of a better term, just kind of fell off the face of the earth as far as pinball went. Yeah. And for him to kind of trust us enough to come on the show, come out to the studio, record that show. He had his girlfriend Jenny here. That was a great time. And talking with Todd Tuckey was something I never thought I would have a one-on-one with Todd Tuckey. And that was really fun just listening to him and his stories. Well, let me backwards ask you this question. Who in the pinball community have we really not met? That's a great question. Some of the more elusive people that I thought we would have issues meeting and talking to, we've had opportunities to do so. Let me ask you this. Who is out there that we've yet to meet that you'd like to have on the show? And I know, right? It's like I'm sure there are people out there that we'd like to have on that we haven't. I can think of one, and it's only because it's a local guy, and he's not famous per se in pinball, but he's a legend in my eyes, and that's Wally. Oh, Wally? Wally Gorkowski? Yeah.
    5:21
    Wally would be my favorite guy to have on right now. And who's Wally for those that don't know who he is? So Wally is the gentleman that can take a NBA fast break and turn it into a scared stiff recently or a monster bash or medieval madness. He kind of started doing that. Now he's got a good group of following, a good group following him on some of his builds and are following him and doing the same.
    5:46
    Yeah. You know, how is that not awesome to take another game and turn it into something else? You know what I would like to do if the opportunity ever presented it? I'd like to be able to sit down over a glass of vodka and just have a conversation with Gary Stern. Not an interview with Gary Stern, but a conversation with Gary Stern. I'd love to have a conversation with Gary Stern and just have him talk pinball, tell some stories, without worrying about being the figurehead of a company or anything like that. I'd love to just kind of pick his brain a little bit and just get the true Gary Stern. Jack Danger coming in here in the studio was another great guest. Loved having Jack in. Jack's one of those guys where not only is he a pinball ambassador, but he's just so enthusiastic in general with everything that he does. Yeah, very mellow, too. He's contagious, right, though? Oh, yeah. There's that excitement about him. He controls the room. Yeah. You know, who else? And this one just came to me of another person that we didn't really have on the show, per se, other than the holiday special would be George Gomez. Yeah, George. Again, a lot of respect for George Gomez. He did pop in with Gary, actually, on that holiday special. But you're right. It was great having Scott Denisey on the show. Scott's been on twice, and it's always fun hanging out with Scott. Just a real nice guy. And I think we can go through our list. There was never anybody that we had on the show that I didn't appreciate. And I certainly took something away from each one of those interactions and those interviews. And some of those people are friends of ours prior, and a lot of those people are friends of ours since. So as far as that goes, that's been pretty beneficial. And with 50 episodes under our belt, I can only hope that we've got 50 more episodes lined up to take you through the rest of this year. And we've got some more exciting guests lined up. Well, shift gears, though. Let's get into a little bit of the pinball news. Last week, we talked about Deep Root. They kind of leaked, a controlled leak. Something came out. It was the Raza teaser video, which is the retro atomic zombie Adventureland video. We talked about that. Now, since then, you're able to go to Deep Root Studios has their own page, right? And Deep Root Studios is under the Deep Root umbrella. And this is like an all encompassing. I don't even know the word for it. A conglomerate of all these different outlets, whether it be video games, virtual reality, pinball, augmented reality, like all these things that are all under this page that Deep Root has invested money and employees in and they're attacking as far as they're not limiting themselves to pinball. Yeah. The question I have for you on that is, is that a good thing for Deep Root? is that a good thing for pinball fans? Is it a bad thing for Deep Root? And is it a bad thing for pinball fans? So I think there's pros and cons to both of this. Number one, I think one of the pros would be is you're not limiting yourself to just pinball people and you're expanding your abilities to create a better product as far as pinball or anything else by having the amount of resources and people on hand to make some of these things come to reality. One of the big cons that I see is that it is all fresh. It is just starting. This is under their development and portfolios, right? And these are all categories under the site. It's VFX, pinball, film, TV development, video games, VR, card and board games, AR, which is augmented reality. This is all under their website. I guess to take that, I don't know, when Deeproot got into this and they kind of revealed their company to pinball, my understanding was that there was going to be a focused effort on getting five machines out to the public in a quick and efficient manner. And that was their primary focus. Right. And then we were going to witness this massive rollout of all these machines that would be able to be within customers' homes within two weeks. They would out-manufacture and they would out-sell all the pinball companies, and they would release more pinball machines in 2019 than all the other companies combined. Now, I think realistically speaking, we realized that that was going to be a pretty difficult task, right? Well, yeah. I mean, I think they didn't just set goals. I mean, I think they just blew past whatever they thought might have been possible and tried to take another inch past that. No, I was excited about it, right? Because I'm like, this is kind of what I think pinball might need is a little bit of a shakeup, something a little bit different, maybe creating a little bit of competition. And I thought that was a good thing. Oh, no. And I didn't mean that in a bad way. No, no. Well, they're like trying to blow up the envelope here of what they were trying to accomplish. And I really do hope that it does come true and everything does go seamlessly for them.
    10:17
    It's yet to be seen. I know the TPF thing was kind of a letdown for us because that was one of the things we really wanted to see. That was a big letdown for me, yeah. But I think we can both agree. I understood, though. Well, I think we can both agree, though, that literally we'd rather see a company succeed and do what's right and push something off than be another example of what not to do in pinball, as we've seen a lot of that in the last couple of years. The concern that I have now, and again, I don't have any inside information at Deep Root. I don't know what's going on over at Deep Root. It's not any of my business as far as knowing the ins and outs of that company, but I can only comment on what I perceive and what relates me in the public. I guess my concern at this point is that it seems like they're spreading themselves extremely thin, right? Now, it's one thing to have a bunch of staff all focused towards this goal of pinball, but now it looks like the direction of the company may have changed since the inception originally, which is okay. I mean, you're going to evolve, but there's still not a pinball product out there. And then to see now all these other aspirations of this company concerns me because it's like the mod maker, right? That comes in, says, I'm going to make this DMD mod. They get 90% of the way through it, and then they kind of start another mod, and they start that mod, and they get 70% of the way through it, and then they start a third mod, and they never finish any of them. There's all these unfinished projects. I am, like, the most guilty of that. I do that all the time. With pinball machines and arcade games, it's hard for me to focus. But when push comes to shove, though, you do hit the deadlines. When there's a deadline, but there's no deadline here per se, unless they've imposed their own deadlines. So I guess my concern is that will any of this ever make sense? I as selfishly as a pinball fan pinball guy I don want to see that they want to make board games and all that kind of stuff right now I want to see like a pinball machine And my biggest fear at this point or what would be really disappointing for me is to see them kind of pumping out cell phone apps where, you know, free apps with microtransactions or dollar apps to try to generate funds or make money. And I know they've got financial backing, but I just don't see the focus on pinball. Like, are they stuck? Have they hit a roadblock where they have to, the only option they have to be viable is to start branching out to other ways? Or was this Robert Mueller's plan all along? It just seems so scattered to me. There's not any direction. It does, but you know what, though? Here's the thing. So if they're using a lot of these resources to build a better pinball machine and jumping into the VR world and touching on these other areas where they can capitalize on, I don't see that as a bad thing. I agree where I'd like to see the focus more on pinball. But, I mean, we could be looking at the next Amazon of pinball machines, for all we know, or, you know, of gaming entertainment, as far as this goes, with what they're trying to line up. Yeah, I mean, we could. But, again, as somebody that was looking forward to a pinball product, I'm still waiting for information on a pinball product. And it's been very limited. Like, they've done a couple panel discussions. They did one recently. And the teaser video came out. Now, that teaser video, I like the animations on it. But that could actually be for a cell phone game or a computer game or a video game that could also be tied into the LCD of a pinball machine. So are these 40 animators all working together to make solid content that can then be distributed and dispersed throughout like multiple channels of Deep Root? Or are they working on just pinball stuff? You have to imagine the designers over there. Like you've got Barry Osler and Dennis Nordman and you've got Steve Bowden that's over there who's working on rules. I mean, like, so these guys are working, right? I just I guess I'm just I don't know what to think of this. It's like I don't know how else to say it. It's like we've heard a lot. And the problem is we haven't a little bit anything yet. That's the real concern. And you're right. The disappointment for me is because I kind of want immediate gratification. And I've and I've tried to be patient as far as what's going on. But they don't owe anything to me either in regards to the consumer. They haven't taken any of my money. No. They're not on any deadlines. I appreciate the fact that they're slowing the pace to make a better product, I guess. But then when I see all these other things popping up, it just seems like, man, maybe we should concentrate on one thing and get it functioning. Or does it make sense to just throw enough stuff out there to see what sticks? I don't know. I never run a company like that. I have no clue. All right. But you don't go into things without thinking them through. And if they have this much stuff going on, I'd like to hope that they're not just going at it with the theory of throwing stuff on the wall and see what sticks. Well, I'm sure they've thought it through. That's a lot of money to throw around just to see what sticks. That's true. And, again, I don't think they're just going at it blind. But, I mean, obviously most ideas that you have you probably think are going to have good endings at some point. It just seems like the odds would be stacked against any company that spreads itself as thin as it is now without having like a product. And this is in no way like me putting Deep Root on blast because, again, I've been supportive of Deep Root since they announced their company. And still are. I'm still supportive. I'm still hoping that something comes out of Deep Root. I just at this point, I mean, when will that ever happen? Are we going to even see a pinball machine first, or are we going to see a cell phone app, or are we going to see a card game come out? Like, I don't want to, I don't, selfishly, I want to see a pinball machine. Even if it's like a picture of something that they've been working on, just give me a little bit of something. So you'd be happy with a Whitewood at this point? I would be, yes. I would be happy to see a Whitewood from Deep Root. I would be happy to see an assembled cabinet with a Whitewood inside of it. I'd be happy to see some type of tech that makes sense from Deep Root. I guess for me to just be asked to wait and wait and wait, it's on me to have the patience, and I'm running out of the patience because, again, I'm excited and I just want to see something. Just show me something. Yeah, all right, see, but that's a double-edged sword, though. So if they show something, okay, let's just go by previous examples of things going awry. So we saw Pirates of the Caribbean with the three concentric rings, right? Looked great. Then all of a sudden, you know, four months later, we're yanking it out of the machine because it doesn't function properly and we're not going to put something that doesn't work. and you swear they would have said we're not going to put steel balls in the pinball machine anymore. We're going to go with ceramic balls because of this. I mean, just everyone was up in arms and whatever. So it makes sense why they're not showing anything. I mean, I think that they could probably do something. Does it make – but no, I don't think it makes sense that they're not showing anything. I'm not asking to see a pinball machine that's flipping with prototype stuff on it that's going to be removed. I just want to see something that's been built, something that is a physical structure. Even a whitewood of something would be kind of fun to see. And again, I'm not owed anything, and I get it. It's just me kind of being selfish because I'm excited about it. But I don't know. I guess for me, I'd like to see something that Deep Root is currently working on, and it doesn't have to be anything that's ridiculous revealing, but a little teaser other than the animation that may or may not even be for a pinball machine. I get it. I agree. I would too, but you know what, though? Honestly, whatever happens happens at this point. They haven't taken anybody's money. I mean, they've made a lot of promises, but, you know, I hope it works out. Wish in one hand. I hope it works out. Like, I don't think like, oh, this is the end of Deep Root or anything like that. It's just show me something, please. If you find it within yourself, Robert, to share something with the community, that would be awesome. Send an NDA over. I don't even want an NDA. I think everybody should see something at this point. Just show something if you can, and if you can't, I understand. A blurred out pinball machine. Yeah, man. I mean, we're still in your corner, but at this point, it's like I'm just losing interest in following this as closely. and maybe it's best that we don't even discuss anything until something is shown. Obviously, I thought it was pertinent to bring up Deep Root with the Deep Root Studios information and then the teaser video. So I guess they did kind of show us something. Yeah, and I still think that video was cool. So, I mean, the premise of that really does intrigue me, and I'm looking forward to seeing it. We'll see where it goes. As long as it's not VR, because in the web house we were not VR capable. Augmented reality is on the page. Now, if you remember Ken from Special Will It talking about, I'd like to see augmented reality incorporated into pinball machines, and I thought it would be something that would be non-invasive because it's something that can be displayed through some glasses if you chose to wear them. Not virtual reality. There's a difference. If you don't know the difference, look up virtual reality versus augmented reality. So that's exciting to me. On those Zen Studio cabinets, like when you're playing Fishtails and you go to the arcade mode and those graphics kind of pop up and the guy's fishing out of the plastic, that's the kind of stuff that you could absolutely do on a real pinball machine by just wearing clear glasses where that augmented reality would then be additive in regards to your surroundings that you're seeing in real time. So that would be pretty cool to see. So I hope that's something they implement. You know what? That sounds real cool.
    19:03
    Thanks, Bill. You know what? I haven't been in a position to play something like that. So, you know, I don't believe anything until I see it for the most part. Well, hopefully we see what's going on. Right now we're going to go to Industry Buzz, and that's going to be our special guest on the show is Cary Hardy, and he's going to join us for the segment now. Getting the news from around the industry in this week's Industry Buzz.
    19:27
    And joining us on Industry Buzz, it's internet sensation, Cary Hardy. Cary, what's up, buddy? Internet sensation, that's awesome to be considered to be something like that. I am just so happy to have an internet sensation on the show, so I appreciate you joining us. Absolutely. Thank you, man. No, no, the pleasure is all mine, guys, without a doubt. Now, if somebody's been under a rock for the last several weeks, months, and years, can you kind of discuss a little bit about who is Kerry Hardy? Who are you, Kerry? I am just somebody that loves the hell out of pinball. I mean, that's essentially, in a nutshell, the simplest form of fashion of that is just someone who is almost always thinking about something pinball-related. And that's what it is. and so whenever it comes to like you know just getting into the hobby in general uh it was one of those that i did not see that coming if you were to ask me a decade ago hey you find yourself under the bunch of machines and working on them i'd be like no all right so that begs the question then of what got you started into this hobby yeah that that's a good one right there because it was one of those where i think we all grew up and and loved going to the arcade and pumping quarters in whether it be pinball or arcade machines and i've always wanted one in my own house and so a co-worker of mine which is actually the person who's working on the adams family jason he was like hey man you want an arcade machine i was like uh yeah who doesn't want an arcade machine in their house and so i actually bought a tech and tag tournament from him and it originated just by that and then he was telling me about how there's auctions that go on and i should go to those. I should be able to pick up some machines. And so I went to an auction and it was towards the end of the auction. We're talking like one o'clock in the morning. And I was just texting the wife and I was telling her, yeah, I was wanting to get a pinball machine, but they're out of my price range. I'm not going to be able to bring one home. And then I'm looking down at my phone the entire time behind like 30 or 40 people. And then the auctioneer is like, no one wants a pinball machine for $25. And I was like, uh, yeah, I raised my hand. He's like, sold. I don't even know what I bought It was one of those where It was like 25 bucks for a pinball machine I was like yeah let's do this And so then the crowd like parted Down the middle to show me what it is I just bought And it was a very Very poor Condition Valley Sea Ray EM So I was like oh no what have I done I don't even know what I bought My brother was like, you bought a $25 paperweight. That's what you just did.
    22:06
    So it was one of those things where I brought it home because I definitely couldn't just leave it there because if I was to leave it there, it would be $250 just for leaving something that I purchased. So I brought it home, and that began my journey of learning pinball. And what really took on the point of it getting really involved in my life was bringing the machine back to life. It was one of those where I got it, didn't work. And so it began the journey of me finding schematics and figuring out how it works, why it does what it does. And the bug bit me whenever I turned it on, and it at least had some form of life. I was like, oh, this is like solving a puzzle. I like this. I mean, and it just kind of took over from there and problem solving and figuring things out. But even then, that was just the beginning of how just the little bug was placed in my mind that this is something that I'm going to do. Well, recently, like I know now, straight down the middle of Pinball Show, they have kind of taken Cary Hardy in your YouTube channel, right? And they've incorporated it into their internet pinball show. Can you talk to the listeners a little bit about what your Kerry Hardy YouTube channel is, what people can expect to see on that, and what made you go in the way of YouTube as a media outlet for what your projects are consisting of? And once again, this all derives from just like years ago. If you were to scroll back far enough on my YouTube channel, you would see that every once in a while I posted something about an arcade machine or my MAME software that I was working on and stuff like that. and it was one of those where every once in a while I would just post a video on how to remove mylar glue and my method and stuff like that but I didn't actually start putting effort into it until around June or July of last year where I was like you know what I going to start putting some effort into this because I think at the time I had another channel where it was basically video game streaming And when it comes to that there just so much people so many people and groups out there that do video gamings and giving dialogue over that. And even then, making those videos, it almost felt forced. I love playing video games and everything, but recording it, editing it, stuff like that, it just seemed like it was forced. Whereas when I'm doing pinball, it's more passionate behind it. I enjoy doing it. So it just becomes much more easier for me to record what I'm doing, explaining why I'm doing it, and then editing the footage and putting it together. And it was one of those things where I was just doing my thing, just kind of putting videos up. If people liked them and they didn't like them, then okay, whatever. and uh then eventually i got uh contacted by greg and uh and he's they said they liked what i was doing and that was something that would be you know really nice to have on their channel and if i would be interested in something like that i mean and you know we talked back and forth for a little while but in the end it was one of those like yeah man i just enjoyed doing talking pinball and everything so yeah i have no problem i'll put videos up on your channel it's no biggie So are you still doing videos for your channel solo as well, or are all your videos now kind of incorporated into Straight Down the Middle? No, not all of them are going to be Straight Down the Middle. There was no exclusivity to that when we were talking back and forth about how we were going to do this.
    25:34
    Definitely, I want to try to put the videos that I feel are much better quality or just kind of better content in general. Like I had the Swords of Fury. I felt that that needed – Put those on your channel, right? send them all the stuff that didn't make the cut here's my B-roll here's the B-roll the higher stuff even the Swords of Fury I was like I'm going to put this on the straight down the middle channel because I feel like this is something that needs to get much bigger audience than what I can get out there and I think it's going to do really well and so I still have certain things that I'm going to be putting on my channel but a lot of the things when it comes to how to's and everything like that i think i'm going to definitely be sending over to their channel it's one of those where after the video is done and i've done the editing then i'll make a decision on where i believe it should go so what can people expect to see with the content that you're uploading like what are they looking at what are you providing because we had leon from pinball supernova last week and it was interesting just to see kind he's been all over the place as far as what he's uploading it in an effort to try to create more exposure to pinball and helping people out. And I know you're very similar in that way. You have a crazy style of editing and stuff, but what can people expect when they go into your YouTube channel? And we'll let the listeners know how they can find you here before we let you go. That's no problem. Yeah, as of listening to last week's episode, I feel like that me and him are definitely very similar. I have honestly not watched any of his videos yet.
    27:05
    But essentially, a lot of the times, it's whatever I'm working on. When it comes to working on a machine on one of my locations or machines that I have in the garage, it's essentially like, hey, I need to get this done. You know what? I'm going to record it while I do it because this might be some information that someone's going to need. And there's also times where I may get a new product sent to me or something else. Like I have a couple actually sitting right here next to me that I will do videos on in the near future. And it'll be one of those, how do you install this? There's also things where I've been like, man, this would have been really nice if I would have had a how-to on how to do this instead of having to figure it out for myself. So it's going to be – like I say in the beginning of all my videos, I talk and do everything pinball. So if it's pinball-related, then I'm definitely going to be trying to do anything and all that's pinball. So how-tos, reviews, do's and don'ts. And if anything, I'd like to say that if you watch my videos and you see me doing something, I want to say that you at least learned how to do it or how not to do it. I like your style there. Fair enough, right? Either way, take what I did and go, you know what? It would have looked better or been better if I would have done it this way or if he would have done it this way. Then fair enough. Yeah, take my video and learn from that perspective as well. I'm fine with that. Well, dude, I definitely have to say thank you for all the content that you have definitely uploaded to help people in the pinball hobby. Absolutely.
    28:30
    Definitely a great resource for people. Everyone that's listening, please check it out if you haven't already, which unless you are living under a rock, I'm pretty sure everyone probably has. But, you know, all good things. How do we check them out? How do we find you, Kerry? You can find me primarily on the Straight Down the Middle YouTube channel. and my channel for myself is at youtube.com slash carrie hardy c-a-r-y-h-a-r-d-y all right carrie well i think on uh on that note we're gonna wrap this up and uh look forward to seeing what you're uh uh finishing with the adams family and the swords of fury i know you got some time into both of those oh yeah it's gonna be an interesting go around especially for the swords of fury because it's gonna be doing stuff that i'm not familiar with doing so a lot of this is gonna be one of those cringe videos where you're watching it going, oh my god, I can't believe he's not doing this. Oh no, he should be doing that instead. But I'm hoping that it all comes together in the end and we should be having the next video for Swords of Fury up here in the next week or so. If you don't get thrown into the deep end, you're never going to learn how to swim. Well, now that I've got your number here and I'm going to be contacting you, you're like, what should I do next?
    29:36
    Watching Kerry's videos, you'll learn how to swim or how to drown. Exactly. But it'll be one of them, one of the two. I did want to say, Kerry, Also, you know, I've been watching your videos for a while, and I've always appreciated it, and it was really nice to meet you in person at Texas Pinball Festival this year. So it's nice to be able to see somebody put a name with a face or a face with a name and not be disappointed in the character and the quality of that character. So appreciate it, man. And as I say to all those that provide content for pinball, the hobby is better off having you involved. So thanks a lot, Kerry. Well, thank you very much, guys, for having me on.
    30:11
    Okay, so that was pretty fun talking with Kerry, right? Absolutely. Good time. It is. He's a nice guy, man. I like his personality. I like his approach to pinball. I like that he's offering content for people. Those are the kinds of guys that I like to kind of surround myself with. Absolutely. You know what's refreshing, too, is we got to meet him at TPF, and he is just as genuine in person, if not more, than his videos. Yeah, for sure. And you watch the videos, and you think, wow, what a nice dude. But, I mean, in person, he is even more genuine, enthusiastic about pinball, just a great guy all around. And talking with Lee last week, too, again, another really personable guy, a nice guy, a genuine guy. And these two guys, and that's Lee at Pinball Supernova and then Kerry at Kerry Hardy, his YouTube channel and straight down the middle. These guys are providing free content that is valuable content that can be archived and searched at any time. So if you have not had an opportunity to check out both of these gentlemen's pages, their YouTube channels and whatever they got going, please check them out. because, again, you'll be better off in pinball associating yourself with those videos and kind of researching. It's good times. Absolutely. Are you ready to play a little Drain It or Save It? I am ready. Woo!
    31:22
    It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. So Drain It or Save It is brought to you by our friends at LearnMods.com. Rob and Kim. And they are offering custom quality Playfield mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. Visit LearnMods.com today.
    31:41
    First item we have for discussion, Undrain It or Save It Bill. And this was submitted by a listener of the show, David Dennis, and I loved it. Well, and this one really hits home, I think, for, I know me, and I'm kind of sure you too. Maybe not as much. Yeah, we'll see. But, yeah, we'll dig into it. We'll dig into it. And that is playing the wife card when you're involved with a purchase decision for a new pinball machine. And what I mean by that is saying that the wife's not going to like it or I've got to ask my wife, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Do you drain that as an excuse or do you drain that or do you save that? I have to save it because if I come home with a brand new machine that I didn't let her know was coming, I'm never going to hear the end of it. Typically how it works in the web household is it's working like a barter system. I get a new pinball machine, someone gets new floors. I get a pinball machine, someone gets landscaping. You know, I mean, it's literally like a barter system. I mean, I think I'm up right now because of the things that I've done for my wife lately. Yeah, right. She doesn't see it that way. I mean, of course, to her, you know, we're even right now. But, yeah, so got to save it just because I don't typically buy something without telling her. Okay. I'm going to drain this, and I'm not going to drain checking with the wife. I'm going to drain the white card as an excuse for not being able to buy a machine. And this is my whole thought process on this.
    33:03
    Absolutely, in a relationship, it makes sense that you should be on the same page for a purchase decision. Whether it's a small purchase decision or a large purchase decision, I think it's only courteous and respectful to involve your significant other. Absolutely. That being said, if you're not on the same page, There's no reason to use that as an excuse to back out of a sale or to say why you can't buy something. Just say, hey, not going to buy it. You don't have to say, well, my wife's going to kill me. My wife's not going to like this. So I'm going to drain that portion of it. Yeah, I can't see you doing that. Here's the best one. She always puts it in my court saying, well, it's your decision, whatever you want to do. Those are dangerous words, man. And I feel like it's Indiana Jones in the cave where he says, you know, you chose poorly when she sees the new machine. It's like, dude, what do you know? WTF? My wife has learned not to say, well, do whatever you want, because I did whatever I want early, and that's never proposed to me as an option going forward. Well, the best one. I burned that bridge. Sidebar on this is the first time I brought an arcade game home, it was Golden Tee. She goes, okay, no more machines. Well, you know, that's like saying, you know, oh, you survived the fire? Let's see if you can do it twice. So the next day I brought home another arcade game. She was even more mad. It was like, you know, you can't tell me what not to do. Yeah, no. As far as using that as the excuse, if it's true, then it's true, and whatever. No, that's good. I'm just saying, hey, if it's an excuse, keep it to yourself. Don't tell me you can't buy my machine at the last minute because your wife said no. That's just what I'm thinking. But, hey, I appreciate the fact that you asked your wife. I'm not talking about you, Bill. I'm just saying in general. Second item we have, modular play fields. And that is the ability to swap out a play field and put a new play field in a pinball machine. So, essentially, you can have multiple games in one cabinet. Drain it or save it, Bill. For me personally, I would drain it just because the playfields, I've got enough populated playfields around my house that they're starting to aggravate me. Yeah. So, you know, for me it's not a real space issue. It's just frustration because I already have seven machines or nine machines lined up in a row. Right. For someone that has a limited space, I would absolutely save it. But for me, I would drain it just because then you could have a couple different machines by swapping it out of playfield. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to save it in general. I think that, and you hit it right on the head, man. For those that don't have the room and their only option would be modular playfields, I think it makes sense. I'm a big fan of what Jerry at Multimorphic's been doing with his platform, being able to swap playfields out. I think that, in my opinion, has been the best use of modular playfield swapping, has been Jerry's Multimorphic platform. That being said, I don't need to get a Star Wars Episode I and swap in and out a Revenge from Mars. That's just not my style, so to speak. And I guess, you know, Highway Pinball had their modular playfield action that was ready to rock and roll that never kind of came out. So the idea of modular playfields appeals to me. So I will actually save that one. And then finally, the last item here that we have, custom apron cards. And that swapping out the old stock cards like on the Stern pinball machines those apron cards or those yellow price cards You pop those out or on any pinball machine and you put something in It usually kind of like a fancy graphic or something similar to kind of blend itself with the apron and go with the artwork of the machine Do you like that? Do you want to save swapping those out, or do you like that custom or that original look of new old stock, and do you drain it, Bill? I'm going to save it as long as it's not too gaudy or too pronounced where it detracts from the pinball machine. Yeah, I'm going to save it, too. I think if tastefully done, apron cards can really add another element that's tasteful on the apron of your machine. Just recently, you have the magnetic thing that covers a whole apron on Whirlwind, and that looks really sharp. So, yeah, on Whirlwind, I do have that apron cover that matches the side blades that I got from Tilt Graphics, and they do. They look awesome. Even the wife was like, wow, this looks really good. Did it come like this? I don't remember seeing the game like this. Yeah, if the wife's noticing, then that's pretty impressive. Well, yeah, I'm like, oh, it was just dirty. You know, because she saw the first one. I'm like, it was real dirty. It was covered in dingy. Cleaned up the apron. The cards turned into a magnetic overlay. Yeah. It's impressive. So she's like, oh, wow. That's what a little Novus One will do, right? Just transform the apron. Yeah. A little bit of spit shine. All good. That's awesome. So in this week's Drain It or Save It, we're going to recap here. We've got the wife card for purchases. Bill saves it, and I drained it. Modular play field swapping. Bill drained it, and I saved it. But we're both on the same page with the custom apron cards. We both save custom apron cards. So that'll wrap up this edition of Drain It or Save It. And thanks to LearnMods.com for sponsoring the segment. Thanks for having me, Kim. I wanted to take a quick second. Now, our friend Jason Fowler in St. Louis, Missouri, he co-hosts the Slap Save Pinball Podcast with Matt Kanin. Yep. And we had Jason and Matt out for that Jersey Jack Pinball tailgate stream that we did at Steve Beattie's house, and that was during the evening of the reveal of Willy Wonka. Now, since then, they've got a couple shows under their belt as the new tandem over there at Slap Save, and they brought on Chris Franchi. Now, they brought Chris on last week for his first, I guess it's like a podcast within a podcast. So he had his first show with them. First segment. First, well, it's a segment. Yeah. Okay. And then his second segment was released today. And first, I wanted to congratulate Slap Save Pinball Podcast because to bring Christopher Franchi on board, It absolutely adds an interesting dynamic to the show. And just recently, you know, what they announced today was that they had a sponsorship by Zach Many and Nicole Many are sponsoring Slap Safe Pinball Podcast under Flippin' Out Pinball. So they gain a renowned artist as part of their podcast team. And then they go and they land one of the bigger new distributors on the block with the management movement over to Zach many. So they're making a little bit of a move here. Little slap, safe and ball podcast, huh? Yeah, they are. They're slowly creeping. They're definitely competition. Well, I don't, you know what? That's kind of a lie. I don't look at them as formidable opponents now, right? No, they're, they're our buddies. So all good things. Congratulations on the sponsorship and definitely the segment with Chris. What do you think of franchise segments?
    39:17
    Chris has always outspoken and definitely tells you how he feels at that time. So I have respect for that. Is that just the name Chris in general? If you're podcasting, your name is Chris. You speak your mind in general at that time, I suppose. I guess so.
    39:31
    It's a prerequisite. No, no, no. But you know what? Chris Franchi always has interesting takes on things and how he spins things the way that he sees it. So it definitely has some entertainment value. Well, after listening to Franchi's couple segments or podcasts within a podcast on Slap Save Pinball Podcast Show, it's inspired me to go ahead and come up with my five tips for pinball podcasting segments. I like this. And what I will do is I will upload that to our Facebook page at some point later in the week. And I'm just kind of giving some feedback to Chris as he very willingly gave some feedback to the podcast community on five tips to pinball podcasting. I've got some podcasting segment tips that I'd like to offer for those that want to have a segment or a show within a show so be on the lookout for that one that should be pretty interesting i can't wait i don't know what they are guys so this is going to be news to me when i actually see them but looking forward perfect perfect what's going on with whirlwind bill as we get into bill's corner okay so this is the episode where i'm going to get on a little bit of a rant here because i'm a little miffed at certain things on how they have uh transpired in the last three weeks. So Whirlwind is literally sitting in the basement missing the one flap so I can put on the ramp, and then the whole ramp assembly can go on the game and I can put the play field back in the cabinet for the final time. Got a couple other odds and ends to do. I think I made a list of like 12 little things, and that's including, you know, something as small as ordering number four by Inchon 3A screws to replace the flipper switches, the ones that hold down the flipper switches. to some other minor details. So it's really a couple of days out, if that.
    41:18
    But the biggest hang-up was this ramp flap, the whole ramp flap assembly that I was waiting for from a distributor that was on back order because they couldn't get a quality piece from their manufacturer and whatever. So last week, if you remember, Ken, I had said that you can order the piece because it's online still, but I still didn't have mine. And so over the weekend, I... You've been patiently waiting for this piece because you've been held hostage by this single piece. Yeah, there's nothing I can do. The garage is clean. The basement is clean. I have more time with the wife. And we've had listeners. Shout out to Joe Zankis and a couple other guys that contacted us in regards to trying to get you that flap. Yeah, definitely. Guys, I really do appreciate that. If there's anything we can help you with, please let us know.
    42:01
    Like I said, just waiting on this one piece. And so I contact them, get an email back. Oh, yeah, well, that piece is in stock. well then how the frick did you not go through your back order list yeah and be like okay i owe these people there's no back order list that's just winging it man when you have somebody's money well that's the key you already have somebody's money you're not working for the money anymore i'm holding back some expletives here for ken but um yeah so you know and i literally got a response email about an hour later saying oh i have it i could mail it to you you have my money i've already paid for this why am i hunting you down to get this piece yeah it's tough so long to the short yeah so that that piece is now on its way quote unquote right weeks um yeah i mean we're ready the apron uh sticker or overlays installed the side uh graphics are installed the got the new translate the second new translate in so i mean it's really just waiting now just a waiting game you know i'm hoping i don't know two weeks to no pun intended two weeks man like that's starting to be my least favorite term in life is two weeks sucks dude it's flipping now so i mean there's just a couple of little hang-ups and here some of the stuff that i want to change are like a hex post that has corrosion on it do i need to do that no yes you do it's a bill it's a bill web build man that there's no there's no corrosion no corrosion in pinball yeah there is no corrosion and pinball yeah take that out so there's a couple of hex posts that i want to change as well um three and a quarter inch whatever nothing crazy just you know some minor things that will piss me off if i don't change them because i know they're there and it's gonna bother me so it's getting close um the whirlwind debacle is almost over i can't wait to see it i know you've got some plans in regards to revealing the game and uh hopefully we can stream it on our twitch channel which is special when lit podcast all one word on twitch yeah that should be pretty exciting when we get to that point um so everyone that wants to see it you know we've kind of been teasing we're going to post pictures up sooner or later and we haven't uh sorry that's just because life has kind of gotten in the way recently um but this week we will actually post pictures as ken already has pictures to upload later in the week yes you emailed those to me yesterday and i didn't get them out because i was in i was in middle of of birthday party mode for my 10 year and I crashed and then didn't sleep all night. So my bad. No, I will get those out. That's my fault. Yeah, it's getting there. So, all right. And moving on. A couple quick updates in regards to the show. Again, we reached out last week. We're looking for correspondence, people that can go ahead and cover a manufacturer all week long and submit a clip to our show that we can air on the show every single week. We've got a couple of people that have reached out that we really like. So there's still a couple of manufacturers available. If somebody wants to cover a stern pinball or a CGC or even a deep root, message us, specialwindletspinballpodcast at gmail.com. And, you know, there was some confusion. We were asking for audition tapes. It wasn't – we weren't asking for you to go all out and, like, a job interview and tell us all about yourself and that sort of thing. I mean, that's interesting. We like to know who we're dealing with. But we were just saying, hey, just send us, like, a sample news segment of how you would report the news over 30 seconds just to kind of get an idea. And when I said you needed, like, ridiculous audio equipment, I didn't mean ridiculous audio equipment. If you've got any type of a headphone mic or any way to record audio that sounds decent, that will suffice. So, yeah, I mean, don't let that hold you back. More so than anything else, we're looking for people that are motivated to do this and have some fun with the show. Come to the Special Wind Lift family. Yeah, if you've got passion for pinball and you like watching this stuff and covering it, you know, just for yourself and knowledge, definitely bring it to the table. I wanted to give a special thanks over to Josh and Scott over at Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. They sent us a nice little audio message congratulating us on 50 shows. Hey, Ken and Bill, this is Josh and Scott with the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. We just wanted to send this recording off to you to say, hey, thanks for the 50 episodes. It is awesome that you've made it to 50, and we hope to see you for another 50 more. Great content, very professional. Love what you guys are doing. Yeah, keep it coming. Also, we owe you that root beer since we don't drink. Absolutely. Come out to Utah to Keto's. we'll play a black knight and I will take your money. So thanks guys for that. I wanted to thank Scott over at Penn stadium because he sponsors our Twitch streaming channel and we'll be streaming after this episode. Now, obviously by the time this episode airs, we will have already streamed, but you can check us out on Twitch at special when lit podcast. It's all one word. If you want to see the archive show now on our, our Twitch streaming channel, when we go live, we have our, it's a live podcast. So we've got all of our mics live, and we're also playing pinball. So it's a little bit of a different approach to pinball podcasting and streaming, kind of a hybrid approach. And we've had a lot of fun with it. Yeah, I think once again, I mean, I still look at this as kind of like a barroom stream, kind of like our podcast, like barroom talk.
    47:03
    Definitely a lot of fun, and hopefully it's entertaining for the people that are watching. I think we've had pretty good feedback from it so far. Yeah, we've had some good feedback. It's been nice. And again, we've been kind of doing it at our own leisure. We'll get into a more routine schedule here as the weeks pass. Yeah, we've only had one or two cease and desist letters. So, I mean, I think we're good. Is that what it was? Yeah. That's okay. We haven't been shut down fully by any FCC or anything yet. So, that's kind of nice. That's because we're running the Wi-Fi through some different networks. But whatever. Hey, whatever works. Whatever it takes. 220-221. Whatever it takes. But, hey, Bill, thanks for being my podcasting partner here on 50 Episodes of Special Inlet Pinball Podcast. Looking forward to another 50. Absolutely. I don't think we're going anywhere. No. Hey, guys, we're here to stay, like it or not, and the show will get bigger and better as the year goes on.
    47:50
    For those of you that have been along on the ride, we appreciate it. And for those of you that are just joining in, thanks for stopping in and seeing us. For Bill Webb, I am Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.