Make sure your device is attached in a [laughter] Yeah, we're like mid-con conversation Yeah, we're like mid-con conversation when it drops in. Uh true. I should probably unmute you. Uh true. I should probably unmute you. Uh hello everybody. It's an episode of the Dirty Pool podcast. We're here. It's real. Uh and hopefully the audio is working again. I've just reupdated a bunch of stuff. Uh this is as every episode is a very special one. I say that each time, but uh this one's like serious. I have been uh trying to get you on the podcast for a while and it just happened. It just happened. All the stars aligned. I couldn't be happier about it, everybody. Uh it's Bug from Spooky Pinball. Hello. How's it going? I finally answered my How's it going? I finally answered my Instagram DMs. That's why we're here. I finally [laughter] checked them. I kept sending you dick pics and finally I kept sending you dick pics and finally you responded. Uh so he kept saying, "Please respond." I he kept saying, "Please respond." I showed you. Please respond. And I was like, "All [laughter] right." I just kept begging. So, we got a lot to talk about today. So, we got a lot to talk about today. Uh, obviously, we're going to talk about uh a little game called Beetlejuice. I don't know, maybe you've heard of that on the internet. Congratulations on the success of that. Um, but I really want to dive in. You Um, but I really want to dive in. You know, all the podcasts are talking about Beetle Beetlejuice, but I want to talk about a little bit about the origins of Spooky, your involvement, all the good stuff, and then we'll get to Beetlejuice. Uh, so to start it off right off the bat, I think a lot of people may or may not know that Spooky was a podcast first, speaking of podcasts, right? Um, so can you can you talk a little bit about just what it was like being a podcast before we dive into some homebrew stuff and maybe your first game and then what Spooky actually came from? Yeah, you know, it's funny. Every time I Yeah, you know, it's funny. Every time I I talk about the the podcast side, I feel bad cuz the way I explain it almost sounds like a disc to podcasts now cuz every time I talk about this, I'm on a live stream or a podcast. But when Spooky Pinball was a pinball podcast, it was before like everybody had pinball podcasts. Like there was probably only three or four total back then. And of course now there's like there's so many. But uh yeah, it started off as that and it got some moderate success. It seemed, at least from what I remember, it seemed like most everybody in the pinball community and space knew about the Spooky Pinball podcast just because there wasn't that many of them. And so Pinball, what year was that? Just to give a what year was that? Just to give a framework for people. Probably like 2010 Probably like 2010 or so, cuz Spooky Pinball was founded in 2013 as a pinball company. And I think dad was doing the podcast for like a year, maybe two, before it became a company. So probably yeah 2010 2011 somewhere around then. I mean back like when I said like there wasn't a ton of pinball media. There wasn't a lot of people uploading to YouTube. I I think Papa tutorials were maybe just starting to become a thing. Oh yeah. Bowen I mean they were Oh yeah. Bowen I mean they were streaming Papa back then, but like you know uh Owen and his brother had kind of started regularly doing the whole Papa Tour, but that was pretty much the only online pinball you could really digest. Yeah, there wasn't a ton. And uh that Yeah, there wasn't a ton. And uh that was also around the time too that uh Jersey Jack pinball was getting kicked off. And uh my dad had some involvement with that company uh from a printing side of things uh early on. And uh yeah, a little bit later after, you know, a little bit of success with the podcast and working around JJP through the printing company he already worked at, he he decided to take the leap of faith against everybody's judgment to to start his own pinball company with absolutely no money, no experience in running businesses, uh, and just a hope and a prayer pretty much. And I mean, I think that's the best way to do a business. We're still doing it. Just yolo it. And obviously things have Just yolo it. And obviously things have worked out really well. I think the last two titles have been absolutely stellar. Evil Dead is a is a film franchise I just [ __ ] love. I think that it's just fantastic and seeing that game become what it is and all the stuff that previous games that you guys have done to the culmination of that and now Beetlejuice is just it's just cool. So uh so yeah. So then then you went into a little bit of homebrew and then Ben presented a pinball machine, America's Most Haunted, and you were like, "We should make this or maybe make a company." Can you talk about that? Yeah, so it's uh it's the America's Most Yeah, so it's uh it's the America's Most Haunted came about. I think I remember being around when Ben was originally talking about doing the idea for that game. And uh it was just it was just supposed to be a spoof off the reality uh ghost hunting TV shows cuz back then there was like 20 of them. There were so many ghost hunting TV shows, reality TV shows, and I'm still a diehard Ghost Adventures fan. Uh Zack B, I'm I'm a diehard I still watch it to this day. I absolutely love that stuff. [laughter] But uh it was like a parody of that. And But uh it was like a parody of that. And um you know, Dad and Ben had been kind of tight for a handful of years there. And there was actually another game that we were working on that we wanted to do. Uh but around that time, so the game we were working on was called Pinball Zombies from Beyond the Grave. Sounds like a drama film. I love it. Sounds like a drama film. I love it. Right. And it was my dad's layout and uh Right. And it was my dad's layout and uh design. And uh keep in mind this is like 2013 2014 era. And uh around that time there was this TV show that was kind of a big deal called The Walking Dead. And heard of there was there was rumors And heard of there was there was rumors floating around that just maybe uh Stern Pinball was going to be doing The Walking Dead. And my dad was working on this homebrew zombie game that he wanted to make a production thing. And so my dad actually called, I believe he called George Gomez and he said, "George, just please shoot it straight with me so I make the right decision here. If you guys are doing a zombie theme based off a popular TV show, I'm not going to make this game." Like, I don't think that's a good idea to start my company out of the gate headto head. [laughter] Did the Walking Dead and he said, "You Did the Walking Dead and he said, "You may want to choose a different theme." So he did. [laughter] So he did. [laughter] That's cool. Well, that's nice of George That's cool. Well, that's nice of George to give, you know, a little bit of 411 on that. Uh, I need Uh, I need sure it was George. I sure it was George. I I need to, but this is driving me nuts. I need to, but this is driving me nuts. I have your frame too high and there's a little band of gray at the bottom and my OCD is absolutely riveting my mind right now. So, I'm going to fix it real quick. Stand by team. Stand by team. There we go. All good. Um, There we go. All good. Um, awesome. awesome. That's really cool. Well, so but so he That's really cool. Well, so but so he didn't do that and then Exactly. So, so America's Most Haunted. Exactly. So, so America's Most Haunted. By the way, I don't know if you know this, but you'll hopefully you'll appreciate this, but Carl says that America's Most Haunted is his favorite spooky game, which I think is like I think it's my it's like my second I think it's my it's like my second favorite, too. Okay. [clears throat] Okay. [clears throat] Until TCM came out. TCM it beats it for Until TCM came out. TCM it beats it for me. But, I mean, it's so cool playing MH because it it's all our friends and family in that game, you know? Like, those are just our buddies from Minnesota that were like frequent guests on the podcast from the time that we had on there. And like Dennis Nordman was one of our our ghosts in there and you know it's just it was like cool people. I think one of the the voice actors is like from the Benton State Bank you know like it's just our friends and I think that's such a huge appeal to I think that's such a huge appeal to Spooky is that you know obviously people keep calling it a family company and a boutique company but like it really is like a communitydriven kind of thing. This is pretty cool. Someone in chat by the way we are live. We are uh taking questions so feel free to shoot them in here YouTube as well. What's up, Squiggle Tree? He's asking when the thing is coming. Uh, the GTP Prague says that he still has the translite for that prospective game. I believe he's talking about the the zombie game. Was there any test translates made for that? That's funny. We We actually still print them We We actually still print them occasionally. I might have a few um sitting in a box around. We uh because when we go to the shows, we'll like sell translates and whatnot. And I think we have some Pinball Zombies translates that we just run as like this fun cool thing. I feel really I feel really bad cuz I don't know who I I don't remember who did the artwork for it, but it's it's a cool like little backlash of a zombie chick and like two cheerleaders and uh it's very it's good to cheer on zombies. They need it's good to cheer on zombies. They need the motivation, you know. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. But it it was it Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. But it it was it was very much going to be a thing of its time. And uh yeah, like I said, so when uh dad decided to throw that out, well, we'd lost a whole bunch of time and development to that. And Ben had this ghost hunting game that was coming together pretty well at that time. So it made a lot more sense to transition over to focusing efforts on that and doing that. And I mean, Spooky Pinball, the company's logo, was a ghost starting with a ghost hunting game. Everybody knows ghost hunting TV shows and that whole thing. So it just worked out I I think a lot better as our first title. It's a good landmark kind of like launch It's a good landmark kind of like launch platform like you said thematically like really aligned. Yeah. Yeah. It it really showcased like Yeah. Yeah. It it really showcased like especially at the time like just how like homemade everything really was and felt like just like who we were, you know, like this is this is kind of our vibe. This is our thing that we're doing. And I I like to think that even now working on like the the really big Warner Brothers titles and whatnot that we still get that worked into all of our games, but that we've just really refined it and made it a lot more professional and and marketable to to bigger audiences. Yeah. I mean, I think that I I've Yeah. I mean, I think that I I've certainly enjoyed and I'm sure most if not all viewers have enjoyed seeing kind of like the development and change of the first spooky game versus, you know, Beetlejuice or Evil Dead, I should say. I don't think a lot of people have gotten to see or play Beetlejuice yet. So, no, not that many. [laughter] Yeah. All no, not that many. [laughter] Yeah. All right. So, so the company launches at some point officially, right? So, did did Ben present this idea and and your dad and the rest of the team were just like, "Oh, this is a great this will be the game to launch and we should we should manufacture it at scale." Like, at what point was the like, "Okay, we're doing this." Like, this is a real the real thing. Uh, it's tough for me to say. So, around this time, keep in mind, I was 11, maybe 12 years old. So, like, you know, some of that stuff I wasn't as around or involved with. Um, sure. I I think it was just a mutual thing I I think it was just a mutual thing that made a lot of sense after Pinball Zombies fell through was like, "Okay, well, this is the thing that we should do." And I think Ben, he really wanted to see that game get made uh to get it to a bigger audience and uh everything. So, I mean, he was just along for the ride and he's still with us here. He's actually here. He's across the street working with Spooky Luke on a game that comes out like 2, three years from now. Right now, we're working on mechs and stuff like that. So, he's still hanging around. We've still got old Ben, Crazy Ben, hanging around doing cool stuff with us. He hasn't changed. He's exactly the same person. And that is just how we That is just how we want him. What would you say is Ben's defining What would you say is Ben's defining quality? It sounds like Ben is a unique character. Um, voices. Mostly voices. He he still Um, voices. Mostly voices. He he still is a a voice making movie quoting machine uh every step of the way. It's it's fun. I have a really really good time working with Ben on all aspects of what we do whether it's like mechanisms or code or modes or script. Some of the most fun I ever had working on a machine was writing script for Evil Dead cuz uh I would work on it solo, Ben would work on it solo, and we'd have Zoom meetings where we would work together just plowing through the parts of the script that we weren't quite as sure what to do. And I I still think that's some of the best work that we've ever done. A lot of a lot of us came out in that script for that character. So, it was really fun. I I don't think people under like I don't think people under like appreciate how important the script writing is for Pinball. And like it has to come from somewhere, right? Like the the dialogue call outs are you're going to be hearing them over and over and over and over again. So, it's I feel like an unsung kind of element in the production pipeline. Yeah. Yeah. It was a it was a really fun Yeah. Yeah. It was a it was a really fun time. So then let's let's jump forward. Oh yeah, this this person says uh they Oh yeah, this this person says uh they picked up their AMH from uh Texas Pinball Festival, which yeah, the the crazy thing with that show is that leading up to that show over the course of like six to nine months, uh we probably only sold seven or eight uh we probably only sold seven or eight games total. So like things were looking pretty grim. Like we might have made a pretty big mistake. And then that Texas Pinball Festival is where we sold out every single one of the rest of the units that weekend. So we limited it to 150 and then it sold out the rest of that and then it sold out the rest of that 150 units at that Texas Pinball Festival that uh GTP Prague was at. So that's awesome. that's awesome. We're here. We're here because you We're here. We're here because you picked up that AMH at TPF. Shout out GTP Prague for keeping Spooky Shout out GTP Prague for keeping Spooky running. the real the real financeier behind behind the curtain here buying transl lights and keep it spooky in business. Um, obviously that's not the case anymore. You guys have expanded multiple times now, right? I mean the uh production space is what two or three times, right? Oh gosh. Yeah, we've been in so many Oh gosh. Yeah, we've been in so many different build we've we've built new buildings, added on to the buildings. I did a video of this on my Facebook where I did a quick tour of the the Benton Industrial Park of all the buildings that we've done and the add-ons we did for them. We're going to do another one at some point here. I want to do a building that is the spooky alley building where it'll be like a storefront with all of our merch and stuff and it'll have every single spooky pinball game completely refurbished that you can just like come in and play them all, pick up your game, like get a tour of the factory and everything. So, I love your launch. Another one of those I love your launch. Another one of those your your launch party thing that you your your launch party thing that you did for Beetlejuice. And we'll we'll get to that for sure. I definitely want to talk about that. Um, so I I want to talk about this the so I I want to talk about this the family driven real quick. the family culture or just like how how do you think working as a family has kind of changed the perspective and mentality of how you approach pinball as opposed to like more of a corporate driven kind of way like some other companies. Uh so Uh so it it really instilled the lifestyle aspect of it immediately. So, there's there's absolutely no separation from work and home for pretty much any of us here because it has been a familyowned business. it has been a familyowned business. Like, when dad started it, it's not like he'd left Spooky Pinball at Spooky at 5:00 p.m. No, he'd come home, he was still answering emails, taking phone calls, texting people, and constantly. And uh that always carried through. And when Spooky Luke really picked up responsibilities and everything, when he would leave here, he would go, you know, he would work spooky pinball from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. making sure the production line was going and then at 5:00 p.m. he would leave to go weld the habit trails for Rob Zombie Pinball. And then eventually, you know, started doing the metal work for the company outside of the company. So it was 24/7. That's impressive. That's impressive. And uh so for for all of us, And uh so for for all of us, the the work at home aspect has never the the work at home aspect has never been separated. It's always on 100% of the time. Just no breaks from it. We are always involved with it in some matter some manner. No matter what we're doing. I mean, even if I'm on the fishing boat, I will be checking email, taking a phone call, like whatever it is. And I think that's always been one of the main things that uh has worked for us. It's just that we're constantly working on this stuff forever. Like we we really don't take breaks or anything like that. So I I think that was really integral to the development of the company in general was everybody was two feet in the whole way no matter what was going on. Right. So that was an employer definitely So that was an employer definitely lowered itself while I was talking about lowered itself while I was talking about that. So I [laughter] love I don't know like started sinking. I was I don't know like started sinking. I was like did you are you using one of your new did you are you using one of your new mechs in your chair right now? It's like people levitating [laughter] you up. Yeah. It's like the opposite of an Yeah. It's like the opposite of an inlane lifter. It's a chair dlifter cuz nobody liked the inline lifter. So, we're going to do it different now. There you go. We see there you go. We There you go. We see there you go. We just saw a custom mech on stream live secret. Look at that. Um I mean it sounds like again like not having a company kind of puppet you and being just like part of it from the from the core just changes your perspective and it sounds like that that's just like kind of the spooky mo. Um so let's talk about some game design stuff. Uh you and Luke have collaborated on a ton of games in terms of design, right? How do you when when you get an IP, like How do you when when you get an IP, like how do you begin to kind of like divert and kind of okay, well, I'll focus on this because I'm I'm good at it or I'm bored of that from the last game, so I want to change it up. Like how do you begin to kind of like divvy out design kind of philosophy for for a game? Oh man, it's different every single Oh man, it's different every single time. the the one thing that is consistent with every single layout design that we do is that Luke is actually the person who's doing the CAD and the the drawing of all of the aspects of the game. So like I'll be there and a part of the process for like let's put this in, shoot it this way, tweak it this way. I want to see this here, that there. I'm always a part of that, but he's the person who's actually doing the CAD on every single one of these games. Uh so I always feel like that's kind of important. Is that is that Solid Works or do you guys use a different platform or Fusion 360, baby? Fusion 360, baby? Hell yeah, that's right. Not not 180. Hell yeah, that's right. Not not 180. The whole the whole way around, man. You can't [laughter] you can't fusion halfway. [ __ ] no. Exactly. Exactly. Um, many of the followers of the channel Um, many of the followers of the channel are engineers. That's why That's why I asked. We got a whole bunch of guys that like to like watch the stream while I play pinball during the day so they can sit at work and get paid to watch me play pinball. So, it's not the worst. Um, okay. So he's doing more of the Um, okay. So he's doing more of the actual like 3D visualization and and physical stuff. So and then are you are you ideas? Are you what what is like what would you say is like the bug secret sauce when it comes to pinball machine design? Oh, theme integration for sure. As well as I I have a I like I I like to think I have a pretty decent understanding of of uh pinball game balancing and rule sets and layout theories and whatnot just because I've been around it my whole life and I'm I'm an okay enough uh player I think. But uh every game's different. I mean so like Evil Dead, Luke really took the reigns on that one. He had a lot of ideas that he wanted to see for it and uh I was really really occupied with a lot of things expanding the production line um and getting the new facility set up at that time. So like he really took over in that one. But then Beetlejuice I really took over on the layout design ideas of what I wanted to see for that one because it was a probably the biggest theme that like grabbed it was the theme that I latched on to the most out of everything I've worked on with him. Um, and I he was I was really lucky that he felt confident in me to make the right choices uh with that one. But then something like uh you know Looney Tunes and TCM that was a real collaborative effort from me, him, Luke Peters. I mean we're always bringing in other people too to get their like we always bring in the programmers to get their input on the design stuff and then we listen to about 20% of what they say and that's the right percent of of feedback that's the right percent of of feedback to to take, right? So, it's it's different every single time how much input one single person will have over a layout. Um, usually I'm I'm quite involved with the the aspects that are theme integrated of like this is a a thing in the movie that sticks out a lot in my head that needs to get translated well into pinball. I think I'm pretty good with uh figuring out like dynamically how to have things be as many things as possible in one area so shots don't get boring. Um, which is something that I'm really proud of with Beetlejuice. Uh, Electric Bat actually just had a video uh recently going over every single shot in Beetlejuice and all the different things that those shots do and how it's like some of them are, if you may be familiar with it from another game's layout, but here's the three things Beetlejuice added to it. That was a really cool video. That's that's Pin Pal's that Serge and That's that's Pin Pal's that Serge and Kale's uh kind of like I don't know buddy buddy podcast. Shout out to Pin Pals and Kale and Serge. Absolutely go check out that podcast if Absolutely go check out that podcast if you haven't watched it. Uh, it's great. It's very different than they're kind of like going over finances and stuff at electric back with Kale and Rachel and it's and it's definitely different than the round table with the with Jamie and whatnot. All right. I've been negligent to chat. I've got a number of questions. We're going to do we're going to do rapid fire. You ready? Let's do them. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Rapid fire quick. Okay. Rapid fire quick. Yeah. Well, it's going to be like medium Yeah. Well, it's going to be like medium fire because like some of these questions are kind of long. So, we'll just call it fire. Okay. Yeah. This [clears throat] is an amount of fire. Uh, [snorts] all right. We'll start at the top. All right. So, do you have a do you have an IP holder nightmare story that was just like you had a different vision of a license or and or they were just like it was just not fun? Uh, none that I would share on a live Uh, none that I would share on a live stream right now. Sure, that's totally fair. Uh, how do Sure, that's totally fair. Uh, how do you balance what you want versus an IP holder then? Roller Coasters asks. Uh, consistency. at a certain point they Uh, consistency. at a certain point they will get tired of how much I am willing to bother them to get our way on stuff and will let us have our way. And I think you I mean how how could an IP holder really you know have anything to say against you you've shown a way of consistently representing a game in a way that is respectful to the IP and people love the theme integration like you know they should trust you at this point right one of the biggest pros and cons about one of the biggest pros and cons about pinball and licensers that I don't hear many other companies talk about it this is the biggest pro and the con is that 90% of licensers ers know nothing about pinball. It's that's true. It's that's true. They don't know much about it, which is They don't know much about it, which is awesome because you sometimes that means you'll have a lot more free reign over what you want to do cuz they're like you're definitely the expert on this. We don't in other cases they have a lot of ideas of what they think would be cool in the game and they're terrible and you don't want to do any of them so you spend the whole time fighting against that. So it's the biggest pro and con is that licensers don't know much about pinball. It's funny. It's funny that that has It's funny. It's funny that that has positives and negatives where you can be frustrated and free at the same time. Uh, all right, Joe, I'll ask this. So, Joe Joe runs competitions in Chicago. He's a he's a person who's very passionate about tournament pinball. He's asking if if there's a future of settings like competition mode and extra ball settings to help better control the tournament landscape and tournament settings for for spooky pinballs. Yeah. Uh we should do a pretty big Yeah. Uh we should do a pretty big overhaul at some point to to help cater to the the tournament crowd some more full like we have just neglected that crowd a little bit more with uh some of the settings and whatnot. What I will say is uh you know our games like Looney Tunes uh in Evil Dead and whatnot. They do have a lot of settings that you can go through and change. We should probably just make it more conducive to like here's the tournament section that will get you the things you want there. So like obviously you can turn off extra balls and things like that. That's very standard thing to do for tournaments, but there's probably a lot of other things that we should do. Uh, I'll tell you that we should do. Uh, I'll tell you what though, Joe, send me an email to bugs spooky pinball.com and just give me your your rundown of why we are not the best with those settings in our menu. You do not know the can of worms that You do not know the can of worms that you just opened. [laughter] You're a mad man. You're a mad man. I I want to know. I love hearing I love I I want to know. I love hearing I love hearing it. And uh All right, Joe. There you go, man. your All right, Joe. There you go, man. your wildest dreams come true of getting some good settings in there. of getting some good settings in there. So DJR, also thank you for showing up. So DJR, also thank you for showing up. Uh will we're definitely going to talk about Spooky Speak because I have I have some definite concerns as a sound person which I don't if you may not know I've done some sound stuff. Uh I am very curious about some of the technology behind that later. Um uh we'll do one more and then someone asked is do you use custom software on the back end for your for your games or do you use a game engine like I don't know GDO or I don't know oh sorry yeah I had to understand what oh sorry yeah I had to understand what that meant we use uh Unity when you turn the games on it actually has the Unity logo that pops up. Uh some other programmers from other companies when I've told them we use Unity looked at us like we had seven eyeballs. Why Unity is an awesome plat Unity Unreal. It's it's worked for us for the last It's it's worked for us for the last handful of years here and I'm just happy to have a more consistent system. I mean, that was like one huge quality sort of issue with Spooky Pinball for a long time was that we changed board sets and systems that run the game so often. It was like we never were able to like get our footing. like whenever we lock in on one and refine it until it was really great and set as like the solid spooky pinball system that we always use. Standardization is a really important Standardization is a really important thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Extremely. And it took us an Yeah. Extremely. And it took us an embarrassingly long time to get around to that. And uh like since Scooby-Doo, we've been on the same board set Unity system running it. Like we're we're very stable with that now. And everything coming after uh Beetlejuice as well has these things in it. So, it it was a huge huge necessary change that needed to happen and it has happened and we've seen the pros of it. Sure. You know, before I click that, Sure. You know, before I click that, well, all right, I have one more question and then I'm going to ask you to say three things real quick and we're going to click on a new window. The next question is someone said, "Is Domino's pizza best?" And then someone else said Papa John's bug. Oh, what's the best pizza? Oh, what's the best pizza? Domino's kicks the piss out of Papa Domino's kicks the piss out of Papa John's. I would have to agree with that. That's I would have to agree with that. That's like not even a competition. It's not even close. No offense to a It's not even close. No offense to a restaurant, but oh, come on. [laughter] So, pizza [ __ ] also wants to know if you're pizza [ __ ] also wants to know if you're in a porta potty right now. If so, that is the nicest portaotty I've ever seen. [laughter] That's that chair. I wish I could get my toilet to have that chair cuz that's the one I would do. Uh, okay. Bug, can you say can you say a Bug, can you say can you say a particular word three times so I could so I could switch a browser over? Okay. Uh, particular word. Uh, uh, uh, Okay. Uh, particular word. Uh, uh, uh, one that you might say for a new game one that you might say for a new game that you have, maybe the name of the new game. Uh, yeah. Beetleju. Beetleju. Uh, yeah. Beetleju. Beetleju. Beetlejuice. Oh man, look at that. We've got the Oh man, look at that. We've got the trailer pulled up. Let's talk about Beetlejuice. [laughter] Um, okay. So, obviously this was not a big secret. Everybody knew for quite a while that Beetlejuice was coming and uh and boy oh boy, it seems like that you guys have really delivered. The game looks spectacular. It's got Franchie's artwork top to bottom. One thing that really surprised me and I and I I mean this in a positive way is you know Stern got a lot of like [ __ ] for Kong having this like kind of like wacky color palette and being like just different. And in my opinion, Evil Dead kind of did the same thing, but it like works. Like Evil Dead's color palette and everything about it is so like grindousy and the most like neon like not a traditional kind of like grungy feel that you would think. and Beetle just seems a lot in that same department, but it feels like it it fits a lot more at home. Um, yeah, but you guys got praised for it and I but you guys got praised for it and I love it. I love Frenchie art. I love Frenchie's artwork and and I don't know, just in general, it's it's great to see that there's been a positive amount of feedback in terms of the kind of explosive color palettes you use. Yeah, for sure. I franchise is the Yeah, for sure. I franchise is the master of knowing what is appropriate for the thing that you are working on because I think that's why some people get so upset about various color palettes in other games. It's just with certain themes or characters and whatnot. It's just not what they're expecting. It's not what they have in their mind when they're thinking about that. Fortunately, like in in a Tim Burton world, especially Beetlejuice, you know, greens, purples, reds, black, whites, like those all make sense. There's unfortunately a ton of colors. And the other great thing in his world too is like in the beers movie, there's a ton of different locations that are very distinct. They're very different from each other where you go. The addict is extremely different from the rest of the de's house visually. When they go to the sandworm planet, I always I I still get this wrong. I keep saying Jupiter or Saturn and for some reason I can never remember. It's Saturn. That's what I say Jupiter. Because our programmer's dog's name is Jupiter and so I keep saying that it's Saturn. I don't think could live on Jupiter, I don't think could live on Jupiter, right? Cuz it's like gas, right? They would have to be like fart worms or something. I don't I don't know, right? Like it fart. fart. I mean like you can't like a sandworm I mean like you can't like a sandworm can't swim through gas. It just wouldn't just wouldn't work, right? right? Ours can. But [laughter]