all right so this is going to be a two-ish parter so we were so excited that we ended up talking too much yeah that's what we do so yeah i think we're going to set this up right as a two-parter and then we're going to have part one basically go over king kong the game people want to know like we got the privilege of playing this game before anybody. Pretty much anyone, yeah. So we want to just get that information out quickly. Did he eat the ball? Yeah, exactly. Right, so that's part one. Does King Kong eat the ball? You know, cover some of the shots, like our impressions. Pro versus premium. Pro versus premium, yep. I just got to break in here for a sec. Don has been furiously editing a video slash travel log of the same trip that we discuss in this episode. That's also out on YouTube today. It's a totally separate thing from the podcast episodes. It's funny. It's weird. It's vaguely informative. It's unlike anything we've done before, and it came out really well. Lots of cameos and just a good time. YouTube.com slash at Bash Pinball. And now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress. and then part two we will give you documentary level access to our trip inside stern yeah for the first time learn about our travels what we ate who we talked to what smelled weird our new friends enemies you'll get it all so yeah that's gonna be part two so if you want that stuff come back for part two but for now here's part one king kong get that monkey the intensity is building like the hype is building yeah my fingers are twitching i want to play this freaking game yeah yeah so the night before we had watched the trailer for the first time because we were trying to go in like pretty fresh yeah yeah and we hadn't watched the live stream and all that stuff because you know spoilers of course but after the factory tour we got moved into the showroom where Keith Elwin Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) rick nagel the stern ceo seth davis and the licensing director jody dankberg we walked in and they were like in a line basically like They made like a little front line just looking at us, just watching us, just waiting for the questions. Yeah, man, it was for me. It was like I was going into like an interview or something, even though I'm the one that's interviewing them. Right. I felt like I was going to be interviewed. You could also tell that we were all kind of I don't want to say intimidated, but it just we just felt the weight of what we were doing because it was really quiet. We were all the first timers in that group. Oh, I see. Who had been there. So we were all like, yeah. And none of us knew any of the other ones for the most part. And then the presentation started. Right. Which was Keith Elwin started off explaining the game and the concept. General concept and inspiration and kind of paying homage to the original 1932-33 King Kong. Yeah. But also making it their own because of the whole lack of licensing slash public domain. Right. I was wondering this. We talked about it in advance. Which King Kong is this going to be? Right. because they have the newer Legendary Pictures Monsterverse Kong, which started with Skull Island in 2017. Pretty recent. Yeah, and then he's been in multiple movies with Godzilla, Kong vs. Godzilla, and we didn't know which Kong it was going to be. There was also the 2005 Peter Jackson Kong. The Many Faces of Kong. Yeah, the OG Kong is the 1933 film. I don't think I've ever seen it before. I hadn't either, actually. Because it's a freaking 1933 movie. It's not just coming on TV. Unless you go out of your way to watch that, you're probably not going to see it. Yeah, yeah. You see the image of it, and you're like, yeah, this is probably a silent film or something. It's not a silent film. It's five or six years after the end of the silent film era, and like five or six years before Wizard of Oz was King Kong. The invention of that character was with this movie. Honestly, you know, I'm glad you recommended I watch it. Yeah. Because you just took it upon yourself to watch that movie. Well, that's the thing. I wanted to go into this event feeling inspired. King Kong. Yeah. Inspired. Yeah, because we all knew it was going to be King Kong. Right. When there's a new game, I want to appreciate the theme. The theme. and just enjoy it in the best way possible, which means like maybe I should learn a little bit something about this theme. There's always like little hidden Easter eggs or there's something that you catch that you never would have caught had you not seen the film or read the book or X, Y, Z. For sure. And boy, howdy, did that pan out. So I watched the movie, I don't know, four or five days before the trip. And then I was like, Don, you're going to watch this? Yeah. And then I watched it like maybe two days before the trip. Yeah. You can rent it on all the places. it is obviously black and white it's not what i was expecting what a great film minus some of the problematic things of the era but you know when those are pretty subtle considering but you know what all things considered man like yeah i could 100 still appreciate the creative like yeah elements and the way they they did the effects and just like it's kind of mine it still hold dude i was captivated dude this still holds up yeah when it came out the stop motion was mind-bogglingly good special effects it's not really any worse than like 80s stop motion it's kind of the same honestly in terms of transporting you into a world yeah and storytelling it's got it yeah it's there it's like an hour and 40 minutes it's fast paced stuff is happening fast-paced considering okay the era not fast-paced for a 2025 right right right right but fast-paced by like 80s standard i was kind of expecting it to be like weird and slow and definitely hold your attention now give it a minute when it first starts because you're gonna be like what am i getting myself into but once you get past the first five minutes it really gets going it's great man everybody's like hello hey are you gonna get on this boat i heard a call monkey um but But yeah, I mean, it's like a time capsule from 100 years ago. It was really neat, man, to see New York City in 1933, right? Like the cabs, the diner, just the way they talk. The 1933 technology. They paid 20 bucks to see Kong in 1933. Yeah, like, I paid $20 for these tickets. This better be something good. A little Carl Denham. I highly recommend it, man. And it's funny because I didn't grow up watching classic movies, listening to classic music. I'm kind of like classic things averse. It's just not my jam. It's hard for me to get into it. I just don't like the way it looks, the way it sounds. I'm totally behind this movie. Like, I personally recommend you, if you want to see an old movie that's fun and cool and transports you to an era and you have a hard time with classic films, like Turner Classic Movies, this movie is not like that. This is like your gateway into classic films because it's totally accessible today. Yeah, it kind of makes me want to go back and watch some more classic films. I kind of want to watch classic films too. Well, definitely watch Citizen Kane. Same production company as King Kong, eight or nine years after, and 100% an amazing movie. Amazing. But yeah, there's so many more that I feel like I've probably missed. Watch King Kong, 1933. And particularly if you're like, I'm not really a King Kong person. Check out that movie It might get you into this theme Yeah And by the way the game fully based on that movie Indirectly Basically yeah The movie still has a copyright on it. However, in 1932, actually the year before the movie came out, there was a novelization based on the movie and there's no copyright for it. They never renewed it. So basically, Stern was able to use that book version for everything the story characters same as the 1933 movie tweaked it a little bit made it original yep they added some stuff for sure which to me was genius right because it's also like you're taking this old thing and making it new and original yeah right and kind of distancing yourself from the modern kong yeah the legendary picture is kong yep and making it your own so many references to the film right the black and white yeah like some of the moments are black and white there's an announcement like Gary Stern king kong very obvious yeah and so they obviously took a lot of inspiration from that so that's the one to watch if you're trying to get into king kong and i'm so glad that is the one that they went with and 100 they didn't get a like kong skull island license those movies are fine they're entertaining but the original is the way to go and they really nailed it. Yeah. Like so many references in the animations and the artwork, the story, the characters, everything. The, uh, to lock the balls, right? It's like a train shot. Yeah. Right. Yep. And basically in the movie, that's one of the things he's New York City destroys this little like knocks a train off the rails. And yes, that's the multiball. That's the multiball. The gong is straight out of the movie. And now for a word from our sponsor. King Kong is coming. A monster, all powerful, beating down all weapons. smashing all barriers. You won't believe your eyes. Here he comes. Listen. Ranking out of the dense jungle, King Kong comes to claim his human sacrifice. The first white girl he has ever seen. She looks like a tiny doll in his huge, hairy paws. He tramples 40 caves. King Kong is coming. the picture that staggers the imagination and now back to the show honestly dude it plays and looks way cooler than you can capture on film or just on picture on camera in real life it's so much cooler there's so much more dimension and tactile feel like the gong shot like yeah the actual kong mech toy it actually moves in a way that's really cool and it's kind of expressive in a way which is really cool yeah yeah like you feel when kong is kind of making fun of you when he's mad you know so if we're talking about the game itself i felt the same way like king kong the game as a Keith Elwin game it had a lot of differences to his other games. It did. And it wasn't what I was expecting from the trailer. Right, exactly. Like you were saying. It's just a really interesting shooting game. One of the other takeaways from this game was, you know, not to bring X-Men into the conversation, but it made me feel the same feeling of like seeing that figure eight shot or something like that mystery kind of like, where's the ball going to go? Yeah. Where is it going to come out of? Like, yeah, I had those moments quite a few times playing that game. It is tricky, and I can't remember the name of the shot, but the one in the right corner where the ball goes kind of around a loop, and then it gets bumped back out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the same kind of spiral. Yep, yep. Just the orbits don't go where you think they're going to go, the ramps. It's not as... X-Men is a little bit more blatantly different. This is a little bit more subtly kind of tricky, right? It's got this subtle quality to when you walk up to it, it looks and kind of seems normal. When you actually play and the ball is moving around, you have no idea for at least a couple games what's going to happen. X-Men, you can just take a look at it and you're like, whoa, in the best way possible because I love it. Correct. But in this game, the video and the pictures don't really do it justice. But when you're playing it, it is tricky. And the paths that the ball take. Tons of fun, man. Yeah, it's really fun. The left side for me was an enigma. When the ball basically loops, there's a couple different ways to get to that left side where the drop targets are. Yeah, it's kind of the upper left corner. There's four drop targets. There's a flipper up there that you can hit the drop targets with. So for a while I was like, you know, why? Because there's like a diverter that pops up that blocks the ball from coming down the left side. Yeah, the whole left side. Which, you know, if the diverter is up, if it's activated, the ball will feed right to the flipper, which lets you hit those drop targets on the left side, right? So I played like four games, and to me it was just random. I was like, well, sometimes it's giving me the ball, sometimes it's not. Yeah, yeah. What is happening? Because if you let the ball feed its way down, it's got that weird, I guess, leap of faith. Yeah, the leap of faith. which is like the Jaws ball save thing on the right side, but it's on the left side, and it pretty much saves the ball every time, but every once in a while. You don't want the ball to be like... Yeah, if you have a weird bounce or something, you can lose the ball through that, but it's a gap in the in lane, essentially, on the left side, and if the ball's not going fast enough, it can fall through that gap. It was terrifying. Yeah. And then you were like, hey, if you hit the action button, you can get the diverter. I was like, oh my god, this is way better because now it's a little bit less chaos, a little bit more controlling. To get multiball, you have to hit those drop targets. Basically, each one twice. To set up the multiball and then you start locking balls in the middle. To activate the locks. And really, the only familiar shot in that game to me was that center ramp where you lock the balls, which very much screamed Avengers Black Widow ramp to me. The middle ramp in Avengers super satisfying ramp. I didn't mind at all that that shot was familiar because I love that ramp. I think it's smart. I actually like the way they have it set up because center ramp shot, generally speaking, a center ramp or center shot is not that hard, right? Which makes it more accessible. But the trickiness is in the drop targets. But also, yes, that ramp is easy to shoot from the right flipper. It's just like kind of a middle of the flipper shot, not super hard to hit from the left flipper it's very tricky to hit it was tricky and that's the shot that it also has a diverter because once you're locking balls it moves it over to the train and locks the balls inside the train right otherwise it returns on the left return right and and i didn't see the diverter but there is some there's some magic yeah some magic happening maybe kong has a finger up there and he's like yeah yeah so when you get the three balls locked now This is just on the Premium and the LE because the Pro doesn't have the train up there. It doesn't have a physical lock. You drop the targets twice and then shoot the right orbit. The right orbit, which actually makes the Pro a little more difficult because it is an additional shot you have to hit. And it's a far right orbit. It's a tough shot, yeah. Once you lock those three balls on the Premium or LE, King Kong knocks the train over with his fist and it kind of tilts up. Right. and dumps the balls right right so they don't go in the same place every time which kind of adds a little bit of a chaos element and it's similar to the johnny mnemonic dumping the balls or like tic-tac-toe yep it's kind of cool and it's fun and it's like of it's like a tangible physical thing that happens yeah that you can see that you can feel that's exciting like godzilla right like the tower the ball stack in the top of the building you literally take it down and it just feeds them to you. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that I love because it's exciting. Like the first time you get it, also for new players, I'm sure, like those moments when you finally get the subway train to like stack them in there and then go vertical and he smashes it. And then, yeah, it's exciting. You know, that's what pinball should be. And not to mention the Kong in the back right corner is massive Like for a pinball mech or toy it about as big as anything i can think of they really nailed that thing he looks mean he looks aggressive he moving his arms around he's turning left and right dude he could he could have jaws for lunch fish fillet jaws would be like a snack fish fillet but yeah that gong shot that's another thing where like the amazing The video does not capture the feel of that shot. I know. When I saw the video, I was just like, okay, yeah, it's kind of whatever. It's a spinner. Were you thinking spinner? Yeah, I was thinking kind of like spinner or gate. It's like a flabby little flap. A little gate flap thing. It's a flap. Yeah. But no, it's like a full-blown, I don't know how they designed it, but it's a mech with an actual kickback function to it. felt like i hit a thick piece of not metal but a thick ob like a thick like a gong like a gong um which was really really cool man because it is rejecty you know what i mean like it literally will reject the ball and then you want to hit it to start the modes but then you kind of want to cross your fingers that it's not gonna like get you and it's a tight shot it's a tight shot one of the tighter shots in the game but when you finally go through it feels great yeah yeah like My first couple times hitting it, it just kind of pushes the gong halfway back, and then boom, it just shoots it right back towards the flippers, which is scary. It's terrifying. Because it's in the middle of the play. It's pretty close. It's dangerous, man. Yeah, it's dangerous. And then on either side of it are stand-up targets, which are also dangerous if you don't hit the shot, which is tight, as we mentioned. Right. But yeah, you get it through there, and you get it under the gong, and it's so satisfying. you know what's funny is i think you made this comment but like i totally forgot about multiball oh yeah because i was just so focused on hitting that gong for a while did you remember that yeah yeah you're like man you love hitting that gong i don't know why i just like and that's how i learned that's how you start the modes because yeah i just liked hitting it like i just liked the way it felt when the ball would smack that thing and like yeah and i was just like i know this middle ramp i'm gonna keep shooting that multiball oh man what a fun game That was great. And now for a word from our sponsor. Now on your breakfast table, Donkey Kong Grand Cereal. Crunchy barrels of corn for breakfast. Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Cereal. The sweet, crunchy corn taste will drive you ape. You love the crunch. Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Cereal. Crunchy barrels of corn for breakfast. It's part of this complete breakfast. Donkey Kong cereal. You will love the crunch. And now, back to the show. So there's three ramps in the game. There's like the middle ramp that we were talking about. There's a side ramp in the style of like high speed or Star Trek. But it's got a little bit of a twist to it in that it's not all the way to the left. It's kind of like in the middle left. Yeah, yeah. And so it's closer to the upper right flipper than you would normally expect. It was hard. I was late to it all the time. It took me a long time to get it. The timing is not exactly what I was expecting. I was having trouble hitting it. Initially, for me, my thought was like, man, I got to go earlier. I gotta shoot this thing earlier Yeah and then I would shoot earlier And I would miss it I had trouble finding that sweet spot It doesn't seem like it'd be that hard It seems like it's not too narrow But it's just different But it's just that Maybe the most satisfying shot in the game Because it goes up And it's high It takes it all the way up to the top And then spins it back down It's got a rollercoaster vibe Maybe a plane It's like the biplane It feels like You're literally spiraling. It's so fun. Yeah, that shot, I was basically just trying to hit that shot over and over again. Me too. It was so satisfying and was extra hard for me for some reason. But then that upper left quadrant where the drop targets are, there's another ramp that you can hit from the little flipper on the upper left. But you can also hit that ramp from a lower flipper. It's just real hard. That's insane. And I'm pretty sure you can also hit some of the ramps from the upper right flipper. You have options. I don't know how, because I was doing these things and I was like, am I ever going to be able to do that again? Or was that a fluke? But you can hit ramps from different flippers in multiple places. Interesting. Interesting. I didn't even try that, man. I just kind of like, it's too busy hitting that gong. Yeah. And then that upper left area where you've got the drop targets, you've got an orbit shot that goes around there. And then you've got that ramp. it felt a little like the danger room to me on X-Men. Yeah, that's like a lukewarm danger room. Because if it slides on the left side... Maybe lukewarm isn't the right exciting adjective to describe it. Well, it's not quite danger. It's not that dangerous, I guess. It's the danger room without the danger. Because it's on the upper left. But it's kind of a similar size area. It has its own little ramp up there and its own targets to go for. I see what you're saying. There's no upper playfield in this game. There's no lower playfield in this game. That felt like its own little playfield. Like a mini area to do stuff. Yeah, like Swords of Fury. Kind of reminds me of Swords of Fury a little bit. You've got your own little flipper, your own little drop targets. No, I see what you're saying. It's not just a spot to hit drop targets. You kind of want to hang out up there for a little bit. I think it's almost like the perfect... He really nailed the mini playfield element of this game. I consider that kind of like a little mini playfield corner. But it integrates into everything else, which most mini playfields don't. They're just kind of like their own little standalone thing. Sure, sure. It feels like a separate part of the game. Yeah, this feels like it's a mini playfield, but it's also part of the game, which just feels like the perfect balance and use of that space. Well, when you put it like that, I see what you're saying now. in terms of the danger room. Yeah, it was super cool. I can't wait to play more King Kong. So in the Stern showroom arcade, they had a pro and a premium. And then we also got 15 minutes of alone time with Kong. They let just me and Don, and they did this with every group. Yeah, they were scheduled. Yeah, it was like 15 minutes, your own personal... You can hug it, you can talk to him, you can take photos with him. You can tickle him. I mean, yeah, it was great. Yeah, you could do whatever you want. But they had the sound turned really up a lot on that one. They had like dark lighting. Like you could get the real kind of home experience with the game for 15 minutes. It was great, man. Like I was kind of surprised that they kind of treat us like VIPs. Yeah, it felt that way. So we got to play both versions. And so side note, the artwork, the back glass, like all really cool, really fun. Super cool. I would take any of them. Yeah, and I think it came out that the Pro and the Premium back glass were kind of like interchangeably great. Yeah. And I think they had even switched them at one point. Yeah, that's right. That's what they said, yep. The LE one has like the damsel in distress on the cover, gives me Attack from Mars vibes in a good way. I really like the LE one. Yeah. It's kind of special and different than the other two. But they're all great. The Pro version of this game, at first I was like, oh, they took out the gong. Oh, yeah. And that's really the main thing I cared about that was missing from it. Yeah. But what did you think about the Pro? So overall, my takeaway was that if you exclude the Gong, the Pro was in many ways more fun. Yeah. Because like the, as they say, the Pro's flow. Yeah. I actually had my first great game On a Pro On a Pro And I think it just because you know my mood my vibe I was excited I was like you know so much energy I was just playing fast and loose I was zero strategy, just like hitting that ball, just trying to hit all this stuff, just having fun. And the pro gave me that. I was hitting different combos and ramps. I actually ended up scoring. I had a pretty good game because I just let go and started playing instead of worrying about strategy. and I really like that gong and I really wish that I had the gong in the pro. However, it would slow it down a little bit, arguably, right? And without the gong there, it's still the same shot. It's the same shot. Same exact shot. It just doesn't reject it back at you. Right. So I guess in that way, it makes the pro a little bit easier. Sure. But the shot itself is the same. And I think that was like the theme of it in general was like, it shoots almost exactly the same. Which is interesting because to me, even though that's the case, overall as a feeling, they felt totally different, right? I didn't think so. Yeah, no, they totally did to me. Obviously the shots, you know, are the same, but the feeling when I played them, one, you know, the LE being more of like, almost like a story base. The Pro being almost more of like a fun machine. That's kind of how I felt when I played them. Well, it doesn't have the physical ball lock at the top, so that's another flow thing. But yeah, I think Stern's been doing a good job on the last several releases as far as the pro versus the premium. There's no upper play field to be removed in this game. It doesn't have that Jaws situation, the Foo Fighters situation. It's more or less the same game. There's some differences, but it really feels pretty complete. I agree. I think, and honestly, for many people, I'm sure you could play both games and not even realize that you're playing the Pro. I did. For a minute, I was playing, didn't know which one I was playing because they also had both versions out in the lobby area with all the other games. And I think that says a lot about the comparison here, right? For the price point, it's almost like not having to worry about sacrificing too much for the cost. yeah i mean the spider toy thing i can live without kong moving his arms up down there's still a huge kong sculpt in the back which is cool he doesn't move yeah like it's a novelty you get over it after you've played it a few times everything else is more or less the same yeah so yeah i i was pretty happy with the pro i think they did a good job with it i would take a pro any day but you know does it justify the extra two grand i think for a lot of people it will because this is a great game. The Gong mech is kind of new and different and special, but it doesn't feel incomplete. Moral of the story is both versions are worthwhile in their own right, for sure. Honestly, in many ways, I actually kind of prefer it. I think you just had a better game on the Pro, so you liked it better. I mean, but you know, after I warmed up and stuff and I came back and forth, I saw myself playing both games for different reasons. Like at my house, sure, I'll take the one with the bells and whistles. At the arcade, I'll take the Pro. Yeah, sure. so one of the other cool things about this factory event is there's just like stern people wandering around very friendly approaching i mean george gomez he just kind of like sauntered out just looking around like looking for someone to talk to right right and we happen to be standing there we happen to be unfortunately for him but yeah we chat a little bit with dwight sullivan about uh crazy bobs right the history of crazy origins it's still mysterious right they were all super nice and approachable and friendly everybody that we encountered was just right gary stern was like around any corner at any time yeah that was the thing that jumped out at me is like these people are just pinball fans and they're lucky enough to have made careers out of it, but they just love pinball. They're in there playing the games. We saw Dwight in there playing Dungeons & Dragons, showing somebody how to play it. These guys just love pinball, and that's why they're there. And it seems like Stern hires people who love pinball. They're doing it right. It was really refreshing to see that, man. Not that I've ever thought that Stern was this big corporate monster that was in it for the profits. One thing that I was totally wrong about was their attention to detail, their level of care, the fact that they are pinball people. And, you know, sure, sometimes you have to do things to run a business, but you do it the best you can. And overall, I think they're doing an amazing job keeping pinball alive. And basically, honestly, dude, I don't know any other better way because the games are not exorbitantly priced. I cannot imagine how much it would cost from what we saw to build a game. The level of detail, the staff. There's an enormous cost going into these things. They're doing it the right way. And I think maybe that's why they had us there and everyone else. Because there might be a misconception of... There's no villains at Stern. There is no villain, dude. It's easy to be like, oh, I don't like this new game for this reason. Corporations and artwork is the same. The fonts. The fonts were terrible and the jaws didn't eat the ball. Yeah. That is the other thing like with Kong is just... He doesn't eat the ball. He doesn't eat the ball. Yeah. Yeah. Minus 100 points. But oh, with Kong, what I was going to say is like you kind of alluded to earlier, you get to see like kind of unfiltered Stern. Yeah. And I think that's one thing that does make that game a little bit special is that while everybody knows King Kong, it is an unlicensed theme because it's public domain. All of the stuff that they use is public domain. So they got to have free reign. What does Keith Owen want to do? What does Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) want to do? What do the other artists want to do? They can do it. Right. They're not necessarily creatively prohibited by the license holders and branding standards that these licenses have. And I think you and me, like nine times out of ten, if we're unhappy with a game or if we're complaining about a game, it really oftentimes goes back to probably a decision that was out of their control. Not pinball related. Yeah. Fonts. Fonts. Yeah. So anyway, it was eye-opening, definitely. And kind of just like gave me, I don't know, like it made me a little more of a fanboy, I guess. I hate to say it, man. I think I've been sipping that Kool-Aid hard. You know, I will take it. I will take the ownership. I am officially now a Stern fan. I mean, this is what I was thinking about when we were there. Like my whole life I've been a gamer. Apart from pinball, I've been a gamer. Right. I love Nintendo games. but in the last few years pinball is like my new game of choice really above any other video game really wow and so stern is now kind of my pinball nintendo whoa which is like kind of crazy yeah think about but really like that they're the ones that's yeah it's them Leave this territory now. Return to your home. evacuate all personnel