Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

EP 91 - Nightmare On My Street

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·57m 29s·analyzed·Jan 17, 2023
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Entry-level pinball collecting guide: budgets, sourcing, repairs, and building toward grail games.

Summary

Special When Lit Episode 91 focuses on entry-level pinball collecting and restoration for newcomers to the hobby. Hosts Ken Cromwell, Bill Webb, and Steve Beattie discuss budget-friendly machines, maintenance tips, sourcing strategies, and the emotional significance of collecting grail games. They emphasize building collections gradually through used machines, learning repair skills, and playing pinball in various settings before committing to new purchases.

Key Claims

  • Battery damage is a common issue in used pinball machines that often causes games to appear non-functional but is frequently fixable.

    high confidence · Bill Webb and Steve Beattie discussing diagnostic procedures for used machines

  • Parts availability for vintage pinball machines has improved dramatically; items like Twilight Zone clock boards that were 'phantom items' 10-15 years ago are now readily available.

    high confidence · Steve Beattie reflecting on pin repair resource evolution

  • Lethal Weapon 3 was designed as a copycat ripoff of Terminator 2 but has some distinctive features like video modes and C&C Music Factory soundtrack.

    medium confidence · Host discussion of Lethal Weapon 3 as a value pinball machine

  • Earth Shaker (1989, System 11, Williams) offers tremendous value in the $3,300 range and holds up well mechanically and gameplay-wise.

    high confidence · Steve Beattie noting current market pricing and his personal first-pin experience

  • Budgeting 5-10% of a machine's purchase price for upgrades (LEDs, repairs, color DMD) is a best practice for collectors.

    medium confidence · Bill Webb offering guidance on total cost of ownership for used machines

  • DMD-era games (1990s-2000s) can be found in the $2,500-$3,500 range and offer significant gameplay depth and value for entry-level collectors.

    high confidence · Hosts discussing Demo Man, Judge Dredd, and Lethal Weapon 3 pricing and appeal

  • The Chicagoland area (where the podcast originates) is highly competitive for used pinball acquisitions due to historical coin-op manufacturing presence and high local demand.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell discussing Chicago's pinball market dynamics and sourcing challenges

  • White LED conversions are preferred over color-matched LEDs due to ease of installation and uniform aesthetic.

    medium confidence · Hosts debating LED upgrade approaches and installation complexity

Notable Quotes

  • “When you lift up a pinball machine's play field for the first time, a lot of that's not familiar with what you're used to looking at within an arcade machine. So there is definitely a learning curve, and there's an intimidation factor.”

    Bill Webb @ ~10:30 — Acknowledges barrier to entry for newcomers transitioning from arcade repair experience to pinball

  • “Ask your family and friends, hey, I'm getting into pinball. Do you have anything? Even if it's been sitting around for a while and it doesn't work, I don't care. I just want to kind of get my feet wet. And you'd be surprised what you can find.”

    Bill Webb @ ~20:00 — Practical sourcing advice for entry-level collectors

  • “Buy what you like. And I think the other thing is the very obvious thing that you should probably consider when you're looking for these games is what's my budget, right?”

    Steve Beattie @ ~25:15 — Core principle for matching machine selection to financial reality

  • “You are not going to probably stop at one game and have it in the corner of your living room or family room or your game room for a while. It is going to make you want to think to yourself, what's the next game? What's better? And it can get very addicting.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~32:00 — Warning about collection growth and the addictive nature of pinball collecting

  • “Taillight warranty — as soon as I can't see your taillights, the warranty's up.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~48:00 — Humorous description of post-sale liability expectations for used machines

  • “When you have a pinball machine set up in your house, in your game room, wherever it's at, you have people that come over. It's a conversation starter. People are immediately gravitated towards the pinball machine.”

    Bill Webb @ ~55:00 — Highlights the social value and appeal of owning a pinball machine beyond gameplay

  • “If you go through those trials and tribulations and you have something in your mind, whether it be a Judge Dredd that was your grail pin or a Medieval Madness or a pinbot, you don't have to start with a pinbot. You can start with what's affordable and build your way up.”

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonSteve BeattiepersonDan RosensteinpersonJason SchmidtpersonTerrypersonSpecial When Lit Pinball PodcastorganizationEarth ShakergameDemo Mangame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts and listeners discussing need for more content focused on entry-level games and collector onboarding to grow hobby participation

    high · Dan Rosenstein's message requesting coverage of entry-level and classic games for newcomers; hosts agreeing this is important and dedicating episode to it

  • $

    market_signal: DMD-era games (early 1990s-2000s) are holding or increasing in value; specific machines cited at $2,500-$3,500 range with recent upward pressure

    high · Discussion of Earth Shaker at $3,300, Judge Dredd and Demo Man in $3,500 range, Last Action Hero at $3+, Baywatch at $3,000-$3,500

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Significant improvement in pinball parts availability over past 10-15 years; previously unobtainable items (clock boards, replacement CPUs) now readily sourced

    high · Steve Beattie noting Twilight Zone clock boards were 'phantom items' 10-15 years ago, now readily available; new parts suppliers and resources have emerged

  • ?

    venue_signal: Used pinball machines are rapidly snapped up in high-demand areas like Chicago; competitive sourcing requires quick action and broader geographic search

    high · Ken Cromwell discussing how machines get listed and snatched up quickly; need to show up with cash within 30 minutes or be undercut; hosts making multi-state sourcing trips to Michigan, Indiana, Iowa

  • ?

    operational_signal: Emerging consensus on entry-level restoration practices: battery check first, LED conversion best done uniformly (all white), budget 5-10% for upgrades

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.172

0:00
coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball and welcome to episode 91 it's 9-1 of special with the podcast my name is ken cromwell i am bill webb and with us today steve beattie what's up steve what's going on boys welcome to 91 gentlemen how's everybody doing we're doing great man seems like we had some uh positive feedback from episode 90 yeah well it's because we got one out within a thousand days so that's always good uh good job on our part absolutely well i mean it helps too that uh you know the anticipation was just building and building i think what a lot of people don't realize and we're not going to go down memory lane every single time we talk about rejuvenating the podcast but there was a lot of trial and error to try to get that episode 90 out uh between illnesses and unfortunate happenings at some point i thought there was like the curse a special one lit. We were never going to find the treasure. We were never going to get back in, but we were able to stay persistent and get that episode out. It started in October, I think. We were talking about it. It was a while, actually. We wanted to get the first one out before Expo. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, that's true. October. Anyways. Just a bit outside. That's right.
1:18
91. Yeah, it was great. We got some nice feedback from people that were listening. It's good to hear from some familiar voices and some new voices. If you want to reach out to the show, we do have a new email. We actually shortened our old email because it was extremely long. But the new email is specialwinlitpodcast at gmail.com. We'll remind you at the end of the show. But specialwinlitpodcast at gmail.com is the new email. So one of the messages we received via the Facebook Messenger on the Special Win Lit Facebook page was from Dan Rosenstein. Dan, he's been listening to the show. So essentially, and just to kind of sum up his email, he says that, hey, guys, look, I understand that you guys have been collecting in the hobby for a long time. And over some hard work and dedication, you guys have been able to kind of accumulate a lot of A-list titles, new in-box games, et cetera. But then he also said, look, you know, people that are getting ready to get into the hobby for the first time, they have to start somewhere, too, sometimes. You know, maybe they're not in a position where they're going to be able to go out and buy everything that's new that's coming out or, you know, get a new in-box game or even a modern pinball game. it'd be nice if you guys kind of try to cover some of the games that maybe got you into the hobby or games that are good entry-level games for people that want to continue within the hobby they want to grow the hobby and we were talking about it obviously uh you know in in our spare time bill oh yeah definitely and you know what honestly the first new in box purchase is typically not your first game because you're like you know i'm gonna buy a used one you know see if i like it you know is it going to get used or is it going to be that thing that's you know like a old pool table sitting in the corner.

Bill Webb @ ~58:00 — Encourages incremental collection building toward aspirational machines

Judge Dredd
game
Lethal Weapon 3game
Baywatchgame
Last Action Herogame
Addams Familygame
Party Animalgame
Cactus Jacksgame
Firepowergame
Flash Gordongame
Gorgargame
Medieval Madnessgame
Twilight Zonegame
Scared Stiffgame
Attack from Marsgame
Pinbotgame

high · Multiple hosts recommending battery diagnosis as first step, white LED preference due to ease, 5-10% upgrade budget guidance

  • ?

    collector_signal: Emotional/nostalgic value of 'grail' machines (Addams Family, Party Animal, Earthshaker) is driving collector motivation and long-term hobby investment

    high · Extended discussion of personal grail machines and their significance; Ken's Addams Family story; emphasis on games that 'put special moments' for collectors

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball machines function as conversation starters and social magnets in home settings; appeal extends beyond core enthusiasts to casual players

    medium · Bill Webb noting machines attract people at home; some will start four-player games and leave, others develop deeper interest; demonstrates broader cultural appeal

  • ?

    product_strategy: Hosts emphasize value proposition of modern new-in-box games for financially capable newcomers (warranty, support, no maintenance concerns) vs. used machines requiring DIY skills

    high · Repeated recommendation that if financially able, new LCD games are preferable; detailed comparison of warranty/support benefits vs. used machine experience

  • $

    market_signal: Early DMD machines (Judge Dredd, Demo Man, Lethal Weapon 3) are gaining collector interest as entry-level machines; market sees them as accessible alternatives to newer games

    medium · Hosts discussing multiple early DMD games as solid entry-level options; price points in $2,500-$3,500 range; repeated recommendation of DMD as sweet spot for newcomers

  • ?

    content_signal: Special When Lit episode production resumed after significant hiatus; Episode 90 took months to complete (October start) due to logistics challenges; positive listener reception motivating continued output

    high · Hosts discussing Episode 90 production challenges; gap of 'a thousand days' between episodes; positive feedback from listeners encouraging continued production; new email address (specialwinlitpodcast@gmail.com) indicating infrastructure updates

    • 2:45
    Ken, I mean, that's definitely something you have to build. In my mind, in my financial status, it was something I had to build up to. I couldn't just say, oh, I'm going to tell the wife I'm going to go spend X amount of dollars on X, Y, and Z without hearing about it. So great entry-level pins. I'm not going to say the one that Steve's thinking of. I'm not going to say that one either, Bill. Okay. And I did want to say, just to be clear, if you're in position to get into pinball, I don't think you can go wrong with a new in box brand new game. Oh, definitely not. If you're in a position. Modern day pinball, it's new, it's out of the box, you've got warranty, etc. I would always recommend that first. But in a position where we all started at ground zero, and we didn't know if we were going to be involved in the hobby or not, and quite frankly, I didn't have enough money for me to feel comfortable getting into new in box, so we built our collections. Absolutely. There's definitely a pro. A nice new one box, you're not going to have old switches that are going to break. You're not going to have a diode that's going to break.
    3:48
    By all means, if you can buy... And that also translates into old pinball, too. When you buy something that's an older game, but it's been home use only, taken care of, not a lot of games, you're not going to have a lot of the routed player problems that you would on a machine that's been around the block a time or two. Sure, yeah. But for those that aren't in the position to purchase a new one, I definitely feel there's a lot of value in games such as, I'm going to say it's the Baywatch. Baywatch is a great start. Hey, Baywatch! We should just be Baywatch sales reps. I love it. We should. We should just buy up all the used Baywatches in the area and just get a dealership of Baywatches. So you guys are both pretty handy, too. So you were repairing your first pins. You were working on them. You learned how to get into pin repair, kind of. Yes. Well, that's interesting, though, because pinball is a lot more intimidating. I came in from the arcade side of things, and I was buying up old arcade games, and I was just making them work, and I was enjoying them. Then part of my business before what I'm doing right now was I was in commercial vinyl signage and decals, so I was able to kind of do my own restorations. There's a little bit of a learning curve when you go from repairing and rehabbing and refurbishing and restoring arcade games and then going into pinball. When you lift up a pinball machine's play field for the first time, a lot of that's not familiar with what you're used to looking at within an arcade machine. So there is definitely a learning curve, and there's an intimidation factor. At least there was for me. Yeah, for me it was vice versa because I started in pinball, and then I'd pick up some arcades, and I'm like, I don't know anything about these boards. And those tube monitors always scared the crap out of me. Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. Because if you touch in the wrong spot, you're going to get – I've gotten shocked. I feel like you could die from those monitors. You could absolutely die from those monitors, those arcade monitors. And you know what? The other thing, too, though, is I never was comfortable repairing arcade games like the Flash caps and that kind of stuff. So when I got into pinball, the first thing that I thought as a pinball repair tech guy was a flipper bat fell. And I was like, okay, I think I can do this. And then learning how to flip the glass up was really a thing for me. When I flipped that up, I'm like, oh, I could repair anything. you know best all are buying games and showing people that the back box opens or you can lift the play field up and they're like oh my gosh i've had this for 20 years and i never knew that was possible that has absolutely happened to me several times going out to buy a new game or an old game from somebody's house and you're going through it to make sure this is what i wanted to do with this conversation real quick you know um you know maybe not deep dive exactly what's what got us into pinball and all that sort of thing but i would like to just kind of touch on a few maybe do's and don'ts for people that might be listening to this show or look if you're a seasoned collector and you just kind of forgot what it is to go back and buy some of these games uh some do's and don'ts and some and some helpful hints and buying some games and being able to maybe fix a game or restore a game and sell it for a little bit more than you had into it you got a little return on your investment you're able to build your collection doing that and then you're able to kind of have funds that you can comfortably put towards you know newer more modern and even brand new box pinball. Yeah, that's how we started. Well, you bring up a good point. The used stuff, you're going to have some things to deal with.
    7:01
    I think one of the helpful tips should be when you purchase a used pinball machine, and you've had this too, I think all three of us, is batteries. How many times have you gone to somebody's house and you're like, have you ever changed batteries? And they're like, I didn't know it had batteries. It's right off the bat, check for battery damage. well and a lot of times people will believe that their game is not functioning because you do get the error and it's usually because the batteries had gone out and maybe they leaked a little bit on the board and it's causing some issues and you know for a lot of times that can be an easy fix sometimes it's a little bit more of a complicated fix that requires some board work to be done and if you're not comfortable doing that you know there are people all over the united states all over the world that do board repair yeah you can even ship things i've really yet to see a game that was suffered from something where it wasn't savable or wasn't repairable i've only had that happen a couple of times but i guess when a new cpu is not terribly expensive when the grand theme you pulled the game out of an ocean and restored it and got it working yes so and that that was i would never that was not bill's first pin never recommend that's true your first pin should not have been in the pacific uh for any amount of time no no it was uh atlantic actually atlantic i'm sorry atlantic's fine yeah it was fine it was on the coast it's cool no but you know what i mean yeah i wouldn't start with that extreme of a project but i mean if you're candy you know we give it a whirl um there's enough resources now where 20 years ago there was no pin side parts availability wasn't a thing i just think of some of the parts now that that are available that when i got into this i couldn't buy and now you know they're readily available you know a twilight zone clock board was you know a phantom item 10 15 years ago the ingo kramer clock board yeah do you ever order one of those i have one of those yeah i've ordered several of those well i mean what do you recommend for people for instance do you recommend somebody get into an EM, an older electromechanical game? Do you look at maybe getting into the early solid state games, the System 11 games that had alpha numeric scoring? I think it depends on what you're into. If you grew up playing the older EMS, that's what you're drawn to? Sure. I know people that can repair those way better than I ever could. You bring up a good point. A good friend of mine, ours actually, Jason Schmidt, he's great with valleys, the old school valleys and stuff like that. I don't even want to tango down that road, but he'll ask me questions on WPC stuff because that's really where I know a lot of information about. I've had Gottliebs. Don't ever want to touch a Gottlieb if I can ever avoid it. But yeah, buy what you like because then you'll want to learn how to work on it. So with that being said, go out and play pinball. Play it on location. There's pinball everywhere these days. See what you like. And then, you know, start hitting Pinside, start hitting Facebook Marketplace, hit Craigslist looking for used deals.
    9:50
    And you know, when you buy that game at an estate sale or a local pinball club or a garage sale that needs some work, put some time and effort and sweat equity into it. Get it running. Once you've learned that game and you've mastered it, Ken, you're the king of buying games, beating it, and selling it three months later.
    10:07
    Once you've mastered the game, you know i wouldn't say mastered it's just once i kind of go through a game especially the older games they're not as deep right so you know i i get my what i feel is my money's worth i'm ready to move it along uh you bring up an interesting an interesting point though you're talking about where you can kind of locate these games once you figure out what you like surprisingly ask family and friends there are a lot of people that will find a great game that's been sitting in somebody's basement that essentially has been buried by boxes and clothing, and it just sits down there. And it's not only an eyesore, but it takes up space, and it's heavy. People are not motivated to move these things out of their basement. Ask your family and friends, hey, I'm getting into pinball. Do you have anything? Even if it's been sitting around for a while and it doesn't work, I don't care. I just want to kind of get my feet wet. And you'd be surprised what you can find. You really, really can.
    10:58
    You said garage sales. Estate sales are a little bit more tricky. I think the seasoned pinball hunters that are looking for these games kind of know what's up at some of these estate sales. I've done one of those, and there was like six other people there looking at the same pin. Yeah, for sure. I'm like, okay, this is the last time I'm doing this. Now, we broadcast out of the Chicagoland area, so this is kind of the home of coin op. A lot of games, pinball and arcade, all came out of this general area. So where the supply is generally higher, the demand is equally as high, and it's very competitive to try to find used games. Anything that gets listed typically gets snatched up fairly quickly. And if you're not within a 30-minute ride where you can show up with cash on the glass, so to speak, to bring these games home, there's a very good chance somebody is going to kind of come in and snipe you and undercut you and take the game. So that's a little bit unfortunate. So I would say get creative on where you're looking, and it doesn't hurt to ask your family and friends. Post on your Facebook page, hey, any of my buddies out here interested in pinball, something I'm looking to do. Or if you have one that's sitting around, I'd love to talk about it because maybe I'll come pick it up, and I'd like to try to work on it, get it going, et cetera. So, again, just be creative. And you know what? Look outside of your normal comfort range of driving. If you're comfortable for an hour car ride, expand your search maybe a couple hours. You might find gold. Steve, I know I've made my fair share of trips in the last two years to Michigan, Indiana, Iowa. Anyways, but you know what? The other thing we still need to reel this back in on, good value pinball. Okay.
    12:34
    Well, how do you define good value pinball for somebody that's looking for an entry game to get themselves into the hobby? You know what?
    12:43
    Most games that you're going to buy, off the bat, if they're working, you're going to learn what you like and what you don't like. and you're going to have to go through those trials and tribulations. There were games that I bought that I thought, I'm absolutely going to love this.
    12:54
    Turned out it wasn't the case. But I think also a big part of that, too, is the experience of playing with friends. You know what I mean? Like us as people, we don't play as much because we've been exposed to it for 10 years now. But when we get together, we'll play a game of pinball, and that's the most fun. Steve and I played a game of Cactus Jacks one night for three hours, and that was the most fun I'd ever had playing a Gottlieb in my life. Yeah, right. And that's like a $2,000 pinball machine. It's not crazy. Sure. But, I mean, buy what you like. And I think the other thing is the very obvious thing that you should probably consider when you're looking for these games is what's my budget, right? If I have a $500 budget versus I have a $3,000 budget, there are going to be two completely different types of pinball machines that I'm probably looking at at that point. So I think maybe we can start a little bit of a checklist. Establish the budget. What are you willing to spend? what interests you from a theme perspective? Because I think you're always going to be drawn and maybe even be a little bit more forgiving on a game that you're already vested in as far as a personal interest with the license or with the theme. Yes. Now, a lot of the older games don't have licenses, which is charming. A lot of it is original theme. You go back and you look at your medieval madnesses and your attack from Mars. Some of the more heralded, celebrated pinball machines of all time did not have licenses. Yeah. But, I mean, same token, though. You have Twilight Zone. you had scared stiff and those are heralded with licenses but i mean even if you go back right let let do this three thousand dollar budget pick a pinball machine and go that interesting i just saw today a thirty three hundred dollar earth shaker wow that is quite a value in today's market i was offered today a thirty five hundred dollar demo man which would be a great first pin at least in my book. I like that DMD era.
    14:49
    I agree with you. If you can get into that DMD era around $3,000, it's incredible to be able to do that. It's a lot of pin. And that being said, Earthshaker in 1989, System 11, Williams game, alphanumeric, tremendous value from that era, especially in my eyes, it holds up a lot. Full disclosure, that was the first game I ever bought, and I never regretted it. But I think we'll all warn everybody that's listening, Again, if you're looking to get into this, you're opening up Pandora's box. You are not going to probably stop at one game and have it in the corner of your living room or family room or your game room for a while. It is going to make you want to think to yourself, what's the next game? What's better? I want to put some more money into something else. And it can get very addicting, but there are worse things in which you could be addicted to, in my opinion. So let's just throw this out here for another quick variable, okay? So you have a $3,000 budget. You find a $2,600 lethal weapon 3. Not the greatest of shape, but player, whatever. Then suddenly you want to dump $150 in LEDs. Then you want to do a flipper rebuild. I think a great way to think about when you're going to buy a pinball machine too is maybe allot 5% to 10% of whatever you bought the pinball machine for additions that you might want to add, whether it be LED lighting, color DMD, those types of things. just food for thought because it's like buying a house that you can't afford that needs a patio. What do you do then?
    16:17
    It's a good point. I think one of the more probably common upgrades to an older game that has incandescent balls would be to swap those out and get LEDs. And you can do that usually for less than a couple hundred bucks if you kind of know where you're buying your LEDs from. But as you go in and you start making repairs and improvements on your game, You become more confident trying new things, and most likely you're not going to damage your game or it's not going to turn on ever again. And there's going to be times where you're stumped. You're going to have to do some research. You're going to have to ask somebody for help. But this just gets you more confident for the next game that you buy that, hey, you know what? It's okay if this game is having a flipper issue or this game. Exactly. You're going to learn. And, you know, I know a lot of people, I shouldn't say a lot, but I've met several people that prefer to just work on games even more so than almost playing the games. There's just this sense of satisfaction of getting something up and running, moving along. You're tinkering. You're increasing your knowledge. Also, you're increasing the value of the game, you know, and if you go to sell that down the road, you can put that money toward the next game. Exactly. But as long as you don't take LEDs and color bomb the game. Right. I mean, I had to throw that out there. Are we all guilty of that from back in the day? No. I've done some color LEDs where I'm like. Well, let me ask you this. Have you, and I've done this before, you would kind of color match the insert with the colored LED. Is that something that still goes on? Like, for instance, a red insert, instead of having a white incandescent, or instead of replacing it with a white LED, you would replace it with a red LED. Is that taboo these days? I don't even know. I go all white. It's too much work. I go all white. That's the point, right? Okay. Interesting.
    18:03
    Here's the other thing. I think orange actually looks better under red. And then you've got to match up. Okay, there's 20 red inserts. Now you've got to order 20 red bulbs. Yeah, and then you're too short. But then you're like, oh, some of those are bayonet and they're not wedge. I mean, dude, just go all white. It's nice and simple. It'll look good. So let me ask you this, because you guys do a lot more buying and selling these days than I do. Let's say I set my budget at $3,000, and I'm not as picky about themes or licenses, but I know I want something that's maybe not an electrical mechanical game, and at $3,000, I'm probably a little past the solid states unless I want something that's super popular, rare, and restored. what do you think are a few pinball machine titles say in that 25 to 3500 range where somebody can come in you mentioned earth shaker um and you had mentioned demo man right no so you mentioned demo man you mentioned those are both a little over over um let me ask your thoughts on this because this is a game this is the first dmd game that i ever owned and i and i think i got a great deal on it and it wasn't working and I learned how to get it to work.
    19:14
    It's a mixed bag from people that I know now that have played pinball for a longer time and know what they're looking for. What are your thoughts on Judge Dredd? That was also my first DMD. Really? Yeah. I got a sweet spot for Judge Dredd. I enjoyed it for many years. As do I. It's a wide body game. Three or four years I had the game. That'd be a great first pin. I think so too. I think it's a little bit more than three than the 25-3 we were talking about. But like I said, if you can get it into pretty much any DMD game, it's a lot of pin. I mean, they started just doing a lot more. You can still find a good deal on a Lethal Weapon 3 occasionally. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That, I think, is a great value pin. I know, Ken, it's not your favorite. What about like a Last Action Hero? Last Actions are 3-plus now. Okay. But, you know, the market is shifting right now a little bit. The market is shifting. So, you know, you've just got to keep your eyes open. But some of those are great. I think the documented story on Lethal Weapon 3 was that it was a copycat ripoff of Terminator 2, right? It was, but you know what? I mean, the thing I like about Lethal Weapon 3 is it had a couple more video modes. The shots are not as fluid as Terminator. And you have C&C Music Factory playing. Yes, you do. It's going to make you sweat. And you have to, okay, okay, okay, okay. I do not like that. But if you pin sounded that and threw Goodfellas over the top of that, you know, funny how, funny like a clown? I mean, you could make it kind of cool. Yeah, sure. But I think that's another great value. What are Baywatches going for these days? Oh, yeah. We'll hit Cuba Wizard in a second. But if I want to get a Baywatch these days, can I get one for $3,500?
    20:53
    Close. Maybe a hair more. Or a little less. Depending on shape, right? I sold one that was unshopped for just a hair over three.
    21:04
    That's a lot of payment for that price. Especially if you're going to put the sweat equity in, clean it up, throw the rubber and lights, whatever. You have a great value pinball machine there. And it's not even a value. It's a great game in general, period.
    21:20
    So would you recommend somebody's first pin, kind of a fixer-upper, to kind of get your hands dirty and, you know, essentially learn the pinball machine, learn the pinball world? I think it depends. Learn how to maintain them. I think you can almost literally split people in two different groups. One that wants something that's almost turnkey where you're going to get this game and you just want to play it. And maybe they'll have a technician work on everything. Correct. Or maybe something down the road goes awry and it forces them into looking at how to repair or get a technician. And then there is somebody that can realize that there's a deal to be had and they're not afraid to get their hands a little bit dirty on a game. So I think there's a case to be made for both. I was probably more inclined to want to get not a project pinball machine from the start, because I think what could also happen is you can go in with the best intentions, but if you get a game that has a lot of gremlins and it becomes so frustrating, is that really your first positive experience? And again, this is why I recommend if you have the means and you're getting into the hobby, get into a modern-day era LCD new-in-box game. There's nothing like unboxing a new game. No, it's... Not having to change rubber, not having to deal with a single thing other than cleaning. And there are adjustments that sometimes need to be made out of the box, and sometimes something happens. But you've got customer support behind you. You've got tech support. You've got a warranty. You've got a warranty, right? And that's the other, you know, condu buying a used game is typically you're not going to get a warranty with somebody. Right. You know? Right. I mean. Yeah, there's really, there should be no implied warranty on used electronics from that era. It just doesn't make any sense. I mean, anything can happen transporting a game. It just kind of is what it is. I've heard the saying, taillight warranty, which I was like, wow, as soon as I can't see your taillights, the warranty's up. Well, you've heard with the pen, you slide it two feet across your floor and something will pop up. Something can happen. Well, and occasionally, I mean, these are 30-year-old plus machines and things do happen. That's just the nature of it. But, I mean, I've bought games that literally they work perfect, and you throw them around, you know, four hours in the car, and suddenly your video's not working. You know, ribbon cable took a crap. Things happen. So what do you guys think about earlier games like a Firepower or a Flash Gordon? Maybe not Flash Gordon. That's probably a little more expensive. A Flash for $1,200? I don't think it's a bad value there. Gorgar, I mean. I think a lot of people that are getting into pinball, that's probably the last kind of era they remember playing. So in that aspect, you don't feel like you're missing out on anything. And I think a lot of people are gravitating towards what they remember originally playing, which is why when I got a 1989 Earthshaker in 2006 or whatever it was, I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. It's the last thing that I remember playing. That was high tech to me. I didn't realize what pinball had to offer. Any first pin is going to be freaking cool, though, right? I mean, you're taking home this box of lights and all these moving parts, and it's an amazing thing. You know, all right, one other thing. If there's nothing you will ever do again is get your first pin. Yeah, that's interesting. All right, so one other thing I wanted to touch on briefly, and we haven't discussed this, and it's not in the notes. Recently, there was a gentleman, a pinball enthusiast, okay? He had been in the hobby for a little bit, it seemed like, and he went to go pick up his first Addams Family. and he goes looking for this grail game forever and finally got it and Adams is a game that I hold near and dear to my heart so when I bought mine literally like I'd bought quite a few pinball machines before then but when I picked that game up because it was so near and dear to my heart that was like the last real new pinball playing that was just a special moment and and and if you have the means and you can pick up the game that put that special moment for you like Earthshaker for you um i know you would love to have another uh not hard body but uh what was the first game that you picked up party animal party animal dude if you found a party animal for a good deal not that you need it you know i mean it's gonna look a little off next year twilight i've seen them around and i haven't pulled the trigger on one but you dude you i am sure you would but i mean when you have those moments that's what it's really about it's it's enjoying it it's camaraderie it's It's being thrown back into a mall in Clearwater, Florida, right? Yeah, we're going down memory lane again. A hot dog stand in Wooddale, Illinois or wherever. I mean, it's just – Well, I'll tell you what, too. When you have a pinball machine set up in your house, in your game room, wherever it's at, you have people that come over. It's a conversation starter. People are immediately gravitated towards the pinball machine. And some people will hit the start button four times and start a four-player game and plunge two balls and walk away. It just happens. and some people will just take a general interest or an increased interest in the game. And it's just fun to see people's reactions. Even now with the games that I have here, I've got a lot of people that come in and out of the house and there are some that are fond of pinball and their memories and there are some that are like, oh, they still make a pinball. And you know what? If you go through those trials and tribulations and you have something in your mind, whether it be a Judge Dredd that was your grill pin or a Medieval Madness or a pinbot, you don't have to start with a pinbot. You can start with what's affordable and build your way up through that part and keep reinvesting and reinvesting. And the one thing that really rang true, a friend of ours, Terry, told me a long time ago, is the first couple of years of pinball are expensive because you're buying machines, you're adding machines, and you really don't want to sell, and then you get to a point where it's limited space. Then you sell, and then you buy another one. So the first couple of years are really expensive, but after you kind of build a collection, it's not nearly as bad because then you're just turning what you already had into something else. Yeah, and typically these things are gaining value over the years. They have. I mean, we can't read the future. They might not over time, but, you know, the first couple years are generally going to be the most expensive. That's why we have the collections that we have, Steve, because for years and years we kept building value, building value, building value, and then you got rid of, you know, the games you didn't necessarily want as much, and then suddenly, you know, your friend sells you a Twilight Zone. That's what we're still doing. So it never stops. Hey, guys, I've got a quick question for you. Are you ready to play Drain It or Save It? Absolutely. Sure am.
    27:46
    It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. All right, so the rules of Drain It or Save It, we're going to bring up a topic. Each one of us will bring up a topic. If you agree with the topic or the general discussion, you will save it. If you disagree with the topic or the general discussion, you will drain it. We'll start it off with Bill. What's up, Bill? So I'm going to pull from our Facebook page. Brad Hunter asks, side blades or art blades for a pinball machine? Do you save it or drain it? I'm going to save it. I love the effects that they have, whether it be the art blades. I think they add a lot of depth there. Personally, right now, I'm on a little bit of a side blade or the mirror blade kick just because of the added light effects. But I have both on different games. So I'm going to save it. Steve? Yeah, save it. I mean, basically, for the same reasons, it adds depth to the game. it adds more art. I mean, if you got a sweet art package, you know, on the sides, why not? I too prefer the mirrored blades And then they do like the black mirrored blades the gold mirrored blades like that would that look really good on an Indiana Jones I say this too I think what important though is what are the art blades consisting of Because if it's a hacked-up art pattern that looks like copy-and-paste, something somebody grabbed off the Internet, I'm not really down with it. But if it's officially licensed and it looks good and it integrates with the art theme, I think that these inner art blades add another level of appreciation. I'm a sucker for the artwork. I love light shows, so all those things do appeal to me. So, yeah, absolutely. I will save that. Mine's not pinball related, but it's something that I've had to deal with, depending on who's doing the shopping. And I'm going to ask you guys this question here. Non-Q-tip branded Q-tips. Drain it or save it? Drain it all day. Why is that? Because they bend in their shit. They suck. They do. You can't get a good cleaning. They bend in half. I might be aggressive in my ear cleaning routine, though. You like to get deep into the canal, huh, Steve? Deep, where they tell you don't venture? Right. Oh, I venture. Right. Bill? It's like you're COVID testing through your ear.
    29:50
    Checking it out. What about you, Bill? Drain it or save it? Non-Q-tip branded Q-tips. It's funny you say that. Literally, like, two months ago, the wife bought off-brand Q-tips, and I literally took a handful of them and threw them in the garbage. She's like, what happened to all these Q-tips? I'm like, I was cleaning pinball machines. I was pissed. I would be like, it literally took me 10 to clean one ear. So you bring the pinball element into it, like the non-Q-tip brand of Q-tips. Probably are not bad for disposable cleaning of pinball machines. Cleaning the ears, just not a good thing. They never seem to do what they're supposed to do. And the cotton on the end, it never seems to want to expand properly. What about the plastic ones where the cotton will fall off and scratch your inner ear? You don't want the cotton falling off deep in the ear either. So, yeah, I think we're all three in agreement. we're going to drain non-Q-tip branded Q-tips. Steve, what's yours? I am also going to hit the Facebook comments.
    30:43
    Johan London asks, Bolt flippers, I think they're lightning flippers, on Bram Stoker's Dracula, Doctor Who, Fishtails, etc. Drain it or save it. I drain that. I absolutely hate those. That's why when I shopped for Fishtails, we went regular style flippers because I'm like, we're not putting these things on. did they did that fish tails come with the the lightning no but i had the option to get new ones and i was like no steve there you yeah i'm torn on this one because i don't like shorter flippers i don't like lightning flipper lengths necessarily i'm just accustomed to the regular standard length flipper but that being said i do always like to play a game as a designer intended it to be played so as far as keeping it pure and true to design i will save that one but I would not take a game that had standard flippers and change them out with the lightning flippers to make it more challenging. In that instance, I would drain it. But I think the flippers, as intended on the game, the flipper bats, I will save this one. I will also save it because I want to play a game as it was designed as well. Bill just recently shopped a Fishtails, which typically has the lightning flippers on it. Yes. And now they are standard flippers. It throws the geometry off a little. It throws the geometry off. And I don't have the flow that I had for some reason. It may be just because I haven't owned the game for some time. But, yeah, I'm saving lightning flippers. They belong in the games that they were designed with. All right, so inner art blades and mirror blades, all three of us saved it. Correct. Non-Q-tip branded Q-tips, all three of us drained it. Correct. For use in ears. They're great for cleaning USBs out. That's about it. And then the lightning flippers. Two of us saved it. And, Bill, you drained it? Yes. Okay. Fair enough. And that's this week's edition of Drain It or Save It.
    32:40
    Retro Roundup! Choose your month. How about January? Yes, January now. Let's do it. January. Choose your year. How about we do 1998?
    32:53
    1998. Let's fire up the time machine. How old were you, BD? I believe I was 14. 14? Let's go. 1998. Roll out.
    33:03
    It's time to grab your nostalgia goggles as we blast off into the past. Was it as epic as you remember or a complete dumpster fire? There's only one way to find out. This is Retro Roundup. I'm your host, Lucas Pepke. Welcome to January 1998.
    33:21
    Music. That's right. We're kicking it off with music. The year started off a bit slow, a little bit cold, but January 1998 heated up at the end of the month with some solid hits later on. You might remember Too Close by Next, You're Still the One by Shania Twain, or my favorite of the lot, Don't Hate, Go Back and Listen to It, Get Jiggy With It by the fresh prince himself, Will Smith. You know you were living your best life if you were rocking these hits in your car with your brand new in-dash CD player that you had installed at Circuit City. And speaking of cars, go back and watch that Too Close music video. It starts off with a pretty sweet street race between two mid-90s BMW E36 M3s. I approve. Screen! But Lucas, what were we watching in January 1998? Well, I'll tell you. We were watching a lot of stuff from December 1997. There were some solid hits like As Good As It Gets, Tomorrow Never Dies, and a little movie you may have heard of called The Titanic. That's right, James Cameron's The Titanic was dominating theaters worldwide, and there was only one movie, one movie, that could knock The Titanic and sink it down into the depths, and that is Spice World, January 23, 1998. Your favorite and mine. I know you love it. What about TV? Well, a little show called Dawson's Creek, I didn't really watch it, but maybe you did, came out on January 20th, 1998. Toys. So maybe you weren't playing with toys in January 1998, but I bet you may have seen or had a loved one that had a virtual pet like a Tamagotchi. That's right, they were all the rage in late 1997 and all throughout 1998. Don't let it die. Sports. Are you a hockey fan? If so, maybe you know that the NHL selected Wayne Gretzky as the best hockey player ever. January 9th, 1998. NBA fans, you still had Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal playing, Charles Barkley denying assault charges, and Larry Bird coaching the Indiana Pacers. Don't worry, we're not leaving out the NFL. Super Bowl XXXII saw the Denver Broncos beat the Green Bay Packers 31-24. The completion of a great career, a Super Bowl championship for John Elway and the Denver Broncos. Pop Culture. All right, we're not going to get into news or politics here, but this one blurs the line a little bit, and I had to include it because it permeated pop culture. It was everywhere. SNL was ripping it. Late Night TV was ripping it. And that is the President Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky mess. The accusation came across on January 7, 1998, and then President Clinton's famous quote, leave some space here, January 26, 1998. And that left the door open for someone named Howard Stern to pull plenty of content as he debuted his show at the very end of the month on January 30th, 1998. Arcade. All right, all you arcade rats, what were you playing? A brand new fighting game came out in both the United States and Japan on January 23rd, and that is Marvel vs. Capcom. Huge game with an even bigger sequel that would come later. If you were playing pinball, well, there were some big releases in December 1997 that were just making their way into arcades, and that was Sega Starship Troopers and No Good Gophers. Video games. And last but not least, maybe my favorite category, video games. Right now, we are in a heated battle between the 32-bit Sony PlayStation and the 64-bit Nintendo 64 home console. But Sony is dominating the market. There are a few releases you may have heard of in early January, Robotron 64, Worms 2, but it would get really interesting towards the latter part of the month with Final Fantasy Tactics for the Sony PlayStation, and then Resident Evil 2 on both PlayStation and N64. Now, that one might be one of my favorite Resident Evil games. What about you?
    37:25
    1998, though. 1998 would prove to be an epic year for console gaming, as we saw the game's graphics, sound, and the narratives all improving. We were taking it to the next level, 1998. All right, folks, that's been our round-trip ticket back to January 1998. Are you ready to go back? Let us know. For Special When Lit, I'm Lucas Pepke, and this has been your Retro Roundup!
    37:54
    All right, I'll tell you what right now. That is one of the most polished, solid segments that I've heard on any show in a long time. Yes, well done Lucas. Well done Lucas. That's fun. That is fun. We all talk about this nostalgia that ties back into pinball. Lucas is going to join us during the next episode for some continuing banter after the Retro Roundup. We'll introduce him officially and we'll talk a little bit more about Lucas, but guys 1998, January. You know what? Honestly, just listening to that, it throws me for a whirlwind between the Bulls and thinking of the chicago heritage and you know fun fact for both of you that you both don't know is when i started dating my wife she was a die-hard dawson's creek fan so i have not seen one episode of dawson i have seen every single one for you five times you know and it's funny because literally i'm sure this won't apply to most of our listeners but you know the wife wanted to watch it again because we were kind of in between shows and i'm like listen when you watched it you had more in common with the kids in the show and i'm like now we have more in common with the parents of the show that's a good point i'm not watching that show now no out of that segment what really hit you guys what was something that really impacted you that you were thinking about the nostalgia factor so what what surprised me actually is i didn't realize uh sony's playstation was uh kind of eaten away at the market of nintendo there uh because i was i was a nintendo 64, Nintendo all the way back from NES to Super NES to 64, so that was a bit surprising. So I was playing a lot of 64. When the PlayStation first came out, it was amazing for me. I loved PlayStation, and I was big into the sports games, right? So I was coming over from 16-bit Sega Genesis, and then going into PlayStation, playing Madden Football. It's like a Tony Hawk, right? I didn't really get into it. I was playing a lot of the sport games. resident evil i know you know he's citing resident evil 2 yeah the resident evil series is amazing resident evil 1 i believe it was on the original playstation one of the most impactful games i've ever played in my entire life uh from a console gaming perspective like the legend of zelda is probably all time for me or super mario brothers but i mean when you think about just graphically going into something that where you were just stunned cut scenes the way it was directed the way it was the resident evil series is amazing i didn't get into resident evil and i'd never made it past super nintendo back in the day but it's funny because i still have my original super nintendo and hooked up in my basement and recently the wife and i will go downstairs and we'll load up uh battle tetris and we'll go for two hours just playing battle tetris tetris uh stands the test of time oh that's one of the greatest games of all time and i know you're playing that game in between watching titanic because you're a big titanic guy and this movie was slamming at the box office back in January 98. James Cameron, Titanic. Listen, I liked the movie back in the day. I thought it was cool. But it wasn't until later on in life that I really gained more of an appreciation for Titanic the boat. And the movie followed. James Cameron did a great job of getting all the history and putting it into the movie and then somehow weaving a love story into it. But everything else was historically accurate. From the doors to the people on the ship and everything else. We'll do an episode of just Titanic crap one day. Steve, you'll like that, but I don't want to dig any deeper than that. That could be a great solo episode for Bill.
    41:22
    Some bonus content right there. We skipped right over Worms 2, one of the best games ever made. I love Worms. I believe I was playing that on PC, though. You know, it's amazing when you bring up Worms. I always end up getting these high-end consoles. The new Xbox would come out, and then the Xbox 360, this Xbox One or Series X, whatever I have now. The one game that I always go back to is the Worms series. It's like the most basic of basics. I've got like this $500 gaming system, and I'm playing Uno and Peggle and, of course, Worms. Worms is fun. Never played Worms. Oh, just fun turn-based tactical kind of planning. I love turn-based games where you just have a certain amount of time to make your move. instead of the fighting games like Street Fighter 2 or whatever where it's high panic. It is. I like being able to plan out my attack, have my 60 seconds or whatever it is. Here's my move. Let me counter yours. I love worms. Blowing your buddies up across the map. It's so funny. Playing that wind. Yes. So fun. So we were having this conversation earlier, Steve. We were talking about some of the music from that era. I came by Ken's today, and I was like, do you guys know this Too Close by Next song? When it was in the show notes, I was like, nah, it doesn't even ring a bell, actually. Yeah, so it didn't ring a bell to me either, so I listened to it. And there's a video on YouTube which has all the lyrics. You can follow along if you want. We are a family-friendly show. We are family-friendly, so... Do that after hours when the kids are asleep. But I had heard the song before, right? Probably many, many times back in the day. But I didn't realize what it was about. What is it about, Steve? you know bill you want to explain this one right like i i had heard that song probably times We all have I had two back in the day I never paid any attention to the lyrics And honestly, even listening to the song, I didn't pick up on the lyrics today. But when you read the lyrics, there's something going on in that song. Would that make it on the radio these days? I don't even know. Are you kidding me? I don't know. You got WAP out there right now. Well, I know. Yes. Right. Yes.
    43:29
    That's tame. No, this song by Next. That's kids music compared to the webs. Yeah, seriously. That's probably on Nickelodeon.
    43:40
    The lyrics of that song are almost white noise. Right, you're just kind of in the general vibe of the song, right? Yeah, once you start looking into those lyrics. There's a Larry Field back. Hey, buddy. Hey, what's going on? Ken, you're a couple years older than Steve, okay? Now, do you remember when Like a Prayer by Madonna came out? Yeah, I mean, it was controversial at the time. Okay, I didn't realize it. Maybe I was just outside of that, but I didn't realize what they were talking about. It was just, you know, she's talking about going to church, man. I just didn't know what church she was really referencing. Do we still know? I don't even know. No, probably not, but you get my point. I do get your point. You know, it was kind of white noise until you really listened to the lyrics down the road. Getting jiggy with it, classic. Look, I've always liked Will Smith as a rapper. He's had a lot of success, and he really has never, to my knowledge, really used any vulgarities or really anything controversial. I mean, he's slapping the crap out of Chris Rock at the Golden Globes last year. That was probably a little shocking, but I mean, I love the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. I loved, and this wasn't from 1998, but Nightmare on Elm Street, the song that he kind of did, that rap song. Do you know what I'm talking about? Not a clue. I'll have to let you know that one. I'm surprised Bill doesn't know that one. Are you kidding me? No, I remember the terrible song for the Wild West movie. It's the Wild, Wild West. Hold on. But I mean, you got Independence Day. Nightmare on My Street, I think is what it's called.
    45:16
    Halloween is just so I like. It's an amazing song. It's like about Freddy Krueger. Halloween episode.
    45:25
    There's a nightmare on my street. What? Yeah, I don't know how I'd never heard of it. Oh, this is pretty huge. I don't know when this came out. This is like listening to Joe Pesci's rap song.
    45:37
    Joe Pesci did a rap song. It's got to be like early 90s. I don't know. It's late 80s. It's good. Fresh Prince style. I don't know, man. It's a little outside my range. Okay. All right. We're, we're. I don't know. It sounds weird to say. This was in 1927, guys, when it came out. Y'all got some Perry Como? I like Lucas is going in. he's referencing the sports look who doesn't like sports i love sports uh wayne gretzky greatest player of all time michael jordan would you say he's the greatest basketball player of all time we grew up in chicago of course dude i don't watch sports you guys know that but between 91 and 98 there was one thing i watched and that was the bulls everyone did the whole world watched the bulls this is true but especially in chicago and especially when you think about like when they won the championship oh yeah anyone especially the last one which was 98 um just absolutely i mean this town was just i mean you never felt more spirited than when the bulls were winning did you see the netflix documentary the last dance which kind of chronicles and documents the bull championship runs oh i've watched it three times it's an amazing amazing only once but you know and people that aren't bulls fans but are just basketball fans or fans of success i mean that's it's an unbelievable thing to kind of watch. So speaking of like worldwide known, I think it was in, I don't remember, the Philippines or something. And you tell people you're from Chicago, they just go, oh, Michael Jordan. Yeah, that's true. Literally, they just go, oh, Michael Jordan. That's true. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, he's globally known and very fortunate for us to have grown up in Chicago and be able to see this guy. And what's amazing about that, sorry to cut you off, The amazing part about that was literally he was an enormous giant of the time, and there was no social media.
    47:19
    That's a good point. There was no Internet. I mean, he was just, and they say that in the documentary, and I'm kind of quoting it, but looking back, I mean, you had the McDonald's song, like Mike. You had the Jordans. You had Space Jam. He was everywhere. Going back to social media, though, I mean, he was so successful, but he did not have to, and I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been an E. I'm not saying he wouldn't have been as successful, but I wonder how his legacy could have been impacted based on social media. I mean, these athletes now, it's the eye in the sky. Any wrong move, any word that somebody takes the wrong way, you're opening yourself up to cancel culture. It's just a different element. It's a different way of life in which athletes have to kind of conduct themselves, worry about their behaviors. You hear a lot of crazy stories, even about Michael Jordan. Oh, yeah. Late nights at the casinos and things like that. I mean, but if you've got people filming their cell phones, people playing blackjack, and I'm not saying this happened, four in the morning he's playing blackjack, and at 12 noon he's kicking the Knicks ass. I mean, it's amazing. You just don't know.
    48:23
    Camera phone could have changed a lot of things 20 years earlier. How about pinball machines? No good gophers. Do you ever own a good no good gophers? I have not. Okay. I have not owned one either. We have no time on No Good Gophers. Our buddy Tom has a No Good Gophers, if he still has it. Did he have one? I believe so. I believe that's where I played it, was at his house, I believe. Okay. The other machine was? Starship Troopers? Starship Troopers. Was it a Sega? Sega. Steve, you've owned that. That's got the four flippers on the bottom. I did briefly. That was a quick flip on my end. I don't think I ever owned it. I did not stick around very long. I never played it, I don't think. I don't think I've ever played that game. There's people that love it because it's weird and it's got the four flippers on the bottom. You had it, Steve. I played it at your house, and that was the last time I played it. Was it one of those just very flashy, you know, the Sega, the GI flashes, everything flashes? It was a little too much for me. A little too innovative. But that's okay. But it's still new. Good movie, though. I was a little surprised. Howard Stern is mentioned as starting his show in 1998. Was it for some reason I thought he was around a lot longer than that? I thought he was. Way before that. NBC, the big one in New York started. I got you. Because I was like, man, I remember Howard Stern almost. I can't remember a time where I don't remember Howard Stern almost. Yeah. There was like the TV show, too. I maybe would have thought about that's when that about started. Then you had the Monica Lewinsky, Bill Clinton scandal that had rocked the White House, the political world, the entertainment industry. We don't get into religion or politics, as Lucas had previously said, but, you know, it's almost a part of pop culture. It was an interesting time. It was a very interesting time. To leave it there. All right, gents. Toys from 98. Have either of you ever owned a Tamagotchi?
    50:18
    I played this segment for my wife because I wanted her to hear it before we came over. And she was thrilled about Dawson's Creek, and she was also thrilled about that toy because she actually owned one. What is that? I don't even know what that is. Is that where you need to, like, feed the pet? Every couple hours or something. It sounds like kids. It literally dies and you've got to throw the thing away or something. I really don't know. I believe my sister had one. I have three Tamagotchis.
    50:41
    And they're still alive. One is seven. You're good. Exactly. That is your Retro Roundup for January 1998 from Lucas Pepke. He'll be joining us next week live in studio. Great job, Lucas. Great job. Very nice. Looking forward to talking to Lucas. I guess we're winding down here a little bit on Special Winlet. What is going on personally with your pinball collections? I know that back in the day, especially when we always had a segment, Bill's Corner, where you kind of updated people on what you were doing personally, whether it be a restoration, a flip, a shop job. I've got two of you guys that are heavily into this. What's happening right now? So right now I'm just finishing up an Indiana Jones cabinet for Wally, who we talked about a few times in prior episodes. I remember Wally. You had made him a cabinet for a scared stiff, didn't you? Scared stiff. Since we were off here, I made him one for an Adams family, which he built. Wally is a, I'm going to give a 30-second bio. Wally is a retired gentleman.
    51:34
    Local guy. He literally buys all the parts over the course of about two years for a game that he wants to make, whether it's a Monster Bash, Garrett Stiff, Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Indiana Jones. He was taking parts from NBA Fast Breaks, right? And then he was able to make it into a Medieval Madness? Yeah. And then actually he just started making his own harnesses because he got proficient at it. Right. His latest adventure is he's literally building an Indiana Jones from scratch, and I built a cabinet for that, and he buys all the play field parts, puts them all together, wires them up. Indiana Jones from scratch. I barely want to go through a Lego set. Yeah, no kidding. But if you follow our Instagram page, you could see pictures of that cabinet. What is that Instagram, Bill? Special and lit pinball. Sweet. Check it out. On the IG. Check it out. Bill, what's funny about that cab is, what did I just send you the other day? A link for somebody selling an Indiana Jones whole pinball cabinet. Brand new? Brand new. A couple hours away. Very nicely priced. Bill had just built one from scratch like a week before. What was it like for a virtual pin or something? No, no. It was a retro, a refurb cabinet. Oh, wow. Yeah. How much was that going for? $850. Yeah, okay. That's not a bad price. No, it's not a bad price. The price of wood right now, I mean, honestly, I think the wood was $230 to build this cabinet. Is wood coming back down right now, or is it not? Not in my eyes. Okay. It's not in your eyes, or it's not coming down? It's coming down a little, but not drastic. How long does a cab take to build from scratch, Bill? It's been 84 years. This one is a little more challenging, because normally I like to build them. I'll have the empty cabinet of what I'm going to rebuild, and it's easier to take measurements and go back and forth. Yeah, this one was populated. This one I had to go back up and down the stairs to take measurements and just transfer stuff. So this one probably was about 15 hours, which was way too long. But, I mean, it was stop and go, stop and go. The one day my daughter was like, hey, do you want to come to school because it's our Christmas party? I'm like, well, sure. I've got nothing else going on, but your kid asks you. So I really didn't get long, steady periods of working.
    53:43
    Get that flow going. To get that flow going, eight, ten hours. I mean, honestly, I could build a cabinet in two days if I just wasn't interrupted. It's not bad. It's just time. I like woodworking. But, I mean, there's a lot of you can't cut corners when you're making it in the time period in which it was offered. I mean, the miter cuts and how it all comes together, it's an artwork for sure. I've seen him do this, and I think I might have helped you decal one of them back in the day, the Bram Stokers. And Whirlwind. Yeah, and Whirlwind. Yeah, so it's pretty remarkable to go over there and see, like, a brand-new cabinet. And your first instinct is like, where did you get this? But he built it. So it's remarkable.
    54:21
    It's a good skill. I miss doing it. I really do. I just wish I had more time. Isn't working with wood just so therapeutic? Absolutely. It's so satisfying. It can be frustrating at times, but it's never terrible. The hard part about this is you saw Whirlwind when I was building it from start to scratch. Yeah. Right? Right. And you saw that when it got painted, the inside of the cabinet got painted on the ground first, then assembled, then I sprayed the outside of the cabinet, and then we decaled it. Right. So that paint on the inside was perfect.
    54:53
    When you see a bare wood cabinet, to me, yeah, it's really cool, but it's like, damn, I wish I could have painted the inside of it and then put it together. Right. But it takes a lot more time doing that. It does take a lot of time. What about you, Steve? Anything going on? It's been pretty slow. I recently came across a Scared Stiff. I traded a Twilight Zone.
    55:11
    That's been on my list for some time. Great game. I need more time on it. It hasn't clicked quite yet. Bill's been blowing it up on Monday Night Pinball. Have either of you guys lit the stiff-o-meter yet? Bill had it all lit. I didn't complete it, but I think I died at like 8 or 9. Lost it on the third ball. I think it was almost all the way up. Fun game, honestly, a long time ago. It's tense. I couldn't get into it back in the day when you had that game. It just never clicked, or we were in the middle of doing stuff. and on Monday night I actually started figuring out the lab and that kind of stuff and it was like crap this just cost me like nine grand because now I feel like I need one otherwise my life won't be complete like I really need one now it's not just a want that's going to wrap up this episode 91 of Special Winlet Podcast listen if you want to connect with us we encourage you to do this get on our Facebook page at Special Winlet Podcast Bill what's the Instagram? Special Winlet Pinball and if you don't mind when you go to these pages uh like on there comment share get interactive with the community uh we do have patreon set up we actually had patreon set up before we shut the doors uh earlier if you want to support shown anyway that's great not necessary but if you're there there's some perks and privileges for doing so uh steve what's going on with twitter i don't know yet that's right do we have a twitter we do have twitter i i'm aware of how big of a fan of twitter you are so i'm not a big uh so i'm in charge of twitter do we do we have I have the handle we'll see if it's active alright so I need those credentials we'll figure it out and of course if you want to email us the new email is specialwindlitpodcast at gmail.com any constructive criticism feedback questions comments if you want to run the twitter account go ahead give us a call we'll figure it out but this one's in the books guys alright for Bill Webb I'm Ken Cromwell everybody have a good morning good afternoon good evening and don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball so long everybody Gotta go.
    57:12
    Nothing good. No McDonald's toys. Hey, you know what, though? Listen. Think about it. That would have been good. Nobody can fly and California's floating away. It seems like it's pretty boring. I wish we could talk about McDonald's toys. Yeah. No. There you go. Okay, if we want to, let's do it.