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The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 6

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 41m·analyzed·Nov 23, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

UK hosts discuss Venom, toppers, and community generosity in pinball collecting.

Summary

Neil McCray and Scott Rundell discuss their recent pinball acquisitions and experiences, including Neil's positive impressions of Venom and acquisition of a Twilight Zone machine. They explore community dynamics around game maintenance, collection planning, and the rumor mill surrounding Black Knight toppers. Key topics include pinball quality concerns, CGC's build standards, and thoughtful estate planning for pinball collections.

Key Claims

  • Venom is a great game that doesn't deserve the negative reception it's getting

    high confidence · Neil McCray, speaking about his personal experience with Venom ownership and observations of others playing it

  • Stern exposed electronics on Venom cabinets without proper shielding

    high confidence · Neil McCray describing visible exposed electronics on his Venom machine that required aftermarket parts from GameRoomMods

  • Venom has a ball airball issue on the start ramp similar to Walking Dead's shipping problem

    high confidence · Neil McCray reporting that balls launched up the ramp can go behind it; Stern reportedly working on a fix

  • Black Knight topper re-release pricing of $1,500 is significantly higher than original pricing ($400)

    high confidence · Neil McCray and Scott discussing recent Great American Pinball listing showing $1,500 price tag versus Neil's prior $400 purchase

  • Deadpool is an inferior game with poor toy integration and minimal depth

    medium confidence · Scott Rundell's personal opinion after owning it for two weeks; expresses strong disagreement with popular consensus

  • Big Lebowski machines have significant reliability issues on location

    medium confidence · Neil McCray recounting experiences with CGC Big Lebowski cabinets being broken more than functional at their club

  • Cactus Canyon drop targets were redesigned twice before and after launch

    high confidence · Scott referencing Booch's Texas Pinball presentation documenting multiple drop target redesigns

  • Theater Magic was properly dialed in by Scott and plays well without requiring significant tweaking

    high confidence · Neil McCray commenting positively on Scott's setup work; only minor flipper tightness issue noted

Notable Quotes

  • “there is something about this game like Attack from Mars, like Medieval Madness, and of course it is a Brian Eddy game, right? There is just one more game you need to have one more game”

    Neil McCray @ early in episode — Describes the addictive quality of well-designed Brian Eddy games like Venom

  • “I don't know what people find so fascinating about it. It's got no mix, it's got nothing in it”

    Scott Rundell @ discussing Deadpool — Strong opinion against a highly-regarded modern game; represents outlier perspective in community

  • “Deadpool to me is what Munsters is to you. That's how I relate to it.”

    Neil McCray @ responding to Scott — Shows mutual disagreement on games held in high regard by community

  • “I'm going to come clean right now... I was very nervous about because you know I like the games to play in a certain way and I was very nervous about will it play as good as it did because it did play great”

    Neil McCray @ discussing Theater Magic — Reflects on trusting Scott's setup and equipment preparation skills

  • “if something happened to me it's... if I get hit by a bus tomorrow... Scott, Matt, Vince, Brad... you guys are in charge of helping my wife sell all this all my pinball machines”

    Neil McCray @ discussing estate planning — Demonstrates serious planning for collection succession in community context

  • “It's actually in my will... Tim, who runs Pinball Live streaming, he does the stream for Pinfest... I am leaving you my Medieval Madness when I kick the bucket”

    Neil McCray @ discussing legacy planning — Shows deep community bonds and humorous but sincere commitment to game preservation

  • “I'd be amazed if they did that. But you know, I mean, I think for Monster Bash, the folks that bought an LE like me, I think that would really piss them off”

    Neil McCray @ discussing potential topper upgrades — Shows collector concern about secondary releases devaluing limited editions

Entities

Neil McCraypersonScott RundellpersonDavid MowrypersonTimpersonDwightpersonBrian EddypersonPhilip and Evanperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Venom features exposed electronics without proper shielding, requiring aftermarket protective parts from GameRoomMods

    high · Neil reports having to purchase plastic shielding covers for exposed electronics on his Venom cabinet

  • ?

    product_concern: Venom has ball airball issue where balls launched up start ramp can escape behind the ramp; similar to Walking Dead shipping issue

    high · Neil states 'it's happened a few times' and 'Stern know about it, and they're working on a top piece'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Venom experiencing unfair negative community sentiment despite strong gameplay quality; hosts defend game against criticism

    high · Neil: 'there's a lot of hate for this game and i just don't understand it'; 'Venom, great, awesome... doesn't deserve the shit that it's getting'

  • $

    market_signal: Black Knight topper re-release priced at $1,500, up from Neil's original purchase price of $400; hosts struggle to justify pricing

    high · Great American Pinball listing shows $1,500; Neil: 'I paid $400 for mine I know it's mad basically you can't really defend inflation there can you that's... it just seems insane'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Community rumor that Black Knight topper re-release signals a game remake; hosts dismiss as unfounded speculation

    medium · Neil: 'the rumour is they're going to make more Black Knights and I'm like I just can't imagine them doing that'; 'I just think really it feels challenging to me that they're going to sort that out'

Topics

Venom reception and design qualityprimaryBlack Knight topper re-release and pricingprimaryGame reliability and build quality (CGC, Stern)primaryCollector community dynamics and generosityprimaryEstate planning for pinball collectionsprimaryTopper design and integration with game codesecondaryDeadpool vs other modern machinessecondaryCactus Canyon delivery and drop target fixessecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Generally positive about acquisition experiences and community generosity, but critical of specific manufacturing decisions (Stern's exposed electronics, pricing), and negative about some highly-regarded games (Deadpool, Big Lebowski reliability). Hosts express frustration with rumors and design choices, balanced against appreciation for good ruleset games and collector friendships.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.303

0:00
welcome to the great british pinball podcast and here are your hosts scott rundell and neil mccray welcome everybody neil mccray here and i'm joined by scott rundell how you doing i'm doing well mate this is episode six i can't believe it's episode six but episode six of the great british pinball podcast and and i have to say scott compared to the last month it's been a bit quieter um yeah maybe for you well in some ways and other ways no but um yeah just you know there's a lot of i guess around pinball expo there's a lot of um madness i've actually only managed to fly once in the last month which was to see my mom but she's all right um but yeah just just it's kind of weird you get these kind of bubbles of of stuff happening and then it feels like it's gone all quiet again and people start you know it's almost like there's a there's like a passion to start rumors that you know unless unless there's a new rumor reinvigorate the circle for the uh what do they call it for the sawmill yeah exactly it kind of it's kind of weird and there's been a few crazy rumors um maybe we'll talk about them a bit later on but um yeah so look the um what have i been doing so I got Venom and it's pretty good I have to say and the game I really I've got more and more fond of the game now that I've had it here I've had a few people around they really like it as well how do you find the fast log? Brilliant, I really like it There's something about this game Like Attack from Mars Like Medieval Madness And of course it is a Brian Eddy game, right? But there is Just one more game You know, I need to have one more game And I found myself I was travelling Monday and Tuesday I found myself Coming back And you know from from travels and wanting to play it um which was uh which is great i think i don't know the thing i don't get is scott there's a lot of hate for this game and i just don't understand it it's probably down to the maybe the fan layout people thinking it's more of the same um and it does look a bit empty in the middle yeah and and look i get um why people might think that, but from my point of view,
2:56
the thing about a fan layout is you get a lot of shots from it. But let me tell you, the fan layout doesn't make it any easier. I watched you play it and I was like, God, if you're bricking shots and going straight down the drain, I have not got a chance in hell. The thing about a fan layout is it's kind of brought it it's like an even fan. So the fan kind of just, you know, you've got the play field there and the shots. And if you break, you know, you're bouncing off a post or a switch and you're dead.

  • “Every time I've seen a Big Lebowski on a location it's been broken, it's not been on. So anyone saying that that's build quality or that's great, they're obviously delusional”

    Neil McCray @ discussing CGC build quality — Critique of CGC reliability on location machines versus home use

    • Ian
    person
    Alanperson
    Boochperson
    Venomgame
    Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
    Twilight Zonegame
    Theater Magicgame
    Cactus Canyongame
    Deadpoolgame
    Monster Bashgame
    Big Lebowskigame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Attack from Marsgame
    Walking Deadgame
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)company
  • ?

    product_concern: CGC Big Lebowski machines show poor reliability on location; Neil reports consistent breakdowns compared to home use

    high · Neil: 'Every time I've seen a Big Lebowski on a location it's been broken, it's not been on'; machine was 'broken more than it worked' at his club

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Cactus Canyon drop targets redesigned twice (at launch and post-launch) to address mechanical issues

    high · Scott references Booch's Texas Pinball presentation documenting multiple drop target redesigns before and after launch

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Scott Rundell strongly dislikes Deadpool despite it being highly popular; represents minority viewpoint in community

    high · Scott: 'I do think that game is shit'; 'I had that game for like two weeks and I was like, this is shit'

  • ?

    community_signal: David Mowry spontaneously helped repair and prepare machines from deceased collector's estate for sale

    high · Neil describes David showing up unexpectedly to help Ian prepare machines for sale after father-in-law's death

  • ?

    collector_signal: UK pinball community members explicitly planning succession and care for collections; includes will provisions for machines

    high · Neil has designated Scott, Matt, Vince, Brad to handle estate; Medieval Madness specifically willed to Tim with conditions

  • ?

    product_strategy: Limited edition buyers concerned that future premium releases of same games will devalue their LE purchases

    medium · Neil: 'I think for Monster Bash, the folks that bought an LE like me, I think that would really piss them off if they did something with the top half'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Brian Eddy's game design philosophy emphasizes addictiveness and flow despite playfield appearance; fan layout mechanically demanding but rewarding

    medium · Neil on Venom: 'the thing about a fan layout is you get a lot of shots from it... the fan layout doesn't make it any easier... you're bouncing off a post or a switch and you're dead'

    • 3:28
    And, you know, it takes a bit of a while to think about that. But my sense is that this is a great game. I do think people who aren't as good as pinball will love it.
    3:41
    And even those that are good at pinball, I think, will love it as well. the music because of the code update like the rpg elements or yeah i'll be honest here i kind of ignore the rpg elements i mean i'm level i don't know 41 or something now um but the the i don't i haven't really figured out how that plays into the game too much um and i don't really get that into it um one of the guys that was around um was playing it and they got up to level 14 after about I don't know, 10 or 11 games. So I haven't really figured out what that means, what it does. Is it that big a deal?
    4:22
    Actually, Dwight said, you know, he said to everyone, when you update the code, please reset your characters. Okay.
    4:32
    Because I think he wants people to play, you know, obviously from the start in terms of, you know, testing the game as he does updates. So yeah I've been playing that The one thing I'll say though is I don't know what Stern are thinking about this I'll just try and find this thing That I've had to buy But Stern have On the game They've kind of exposed Hold on where is it They've kind of exposed There's like exposed electronics on the game I don't know if you've seen it yeah there's just a pile of stuff so I ordered this from Game Rude Mods on Pinside and you can see it's got a little bit I could have freely printed you that yeah I know well this is I think this is not I think this is plastic that he's bent you know like on a you know the thing that the machine that Collins got but this was you know age old pinball oh that's something i like i'm just gonna buy it um and just click click and it's on its way so i've got a couple of them i've got a bunch of other um plastic stuff from game room mods in in the us by the way who doesn't even know who i am let alone we're not sponsoring or anything i just he just he's just got a load of good stuff i got a set of foo fight or um uh plates as well but um you know and they ordered it a couple of days ago and it's here already so So, yeah, I do think that they've gaffed on that. I think it's just – and they've also – the other thing they're having is there's a ball, air ball issue where it goes up the ramp in the middle, bounces off and goes down the back. The adjustable ramp. Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's not. It's the one – it's the carnage – it's the start – I think it's called the start ramp. It's the ramp you hit to start carnage. And it's like how Walking Dead shipped. It didn't have, like, a thing on top for the plastic.
    6:45
    So when you hit the ramp, if you've got any sort of air on the ball, it just launches up and goes behind the ramp. And it's happened a few times. Apparently Stern know about it, and they're working on a top piece, which they did for Walking Dead as well.
    7:01
    But I've said that artwork's great. The LE looks beautiful. this dark blue sparkly powder coat is amazing it does look nice these amazing art blades they've actually got I'll speak about this at Theomagic they've actually got a protective cover on them because they look so nice I'm probably just going to leave it on it's like a protective film on the art blades they're not mirrored but they're kind of shiny foil and they look very nice but I have to say the game looks great, I got it from Philip and Evan and it's I was a bit in two minds about it but I'm glad I've got it meant I had to have a shuffle round here in the old arcade so you must be out of space now right? I'm out of space now, Mandalorian I've loaned to a mate X-Men's in the shed and actually I got another game Called Stars, it's an old Stern game I arrived here at the house, I just want to test it before I take it to the club But I got it, employed it from France For next to nothing Compared to what people are charging From the US Which is quite good And yeah So other new stuff That's really it I think A couple of bits and pieces from Marco On to fix some of the game things that got broke during the UK Open just a few bits and pieces that I've ordered but yeah not a huge amount of spend I'm really looking forward to a Foo Fighters topper for probably two grand I was going to say it's a good topic we didn't actually think about that Black Knight topper let's just cover that and this was what I was kind of referring to earlier on people kind of coming out with almost inventing rumours so because someone's got a hold of Black Knight toppers the rumour is they're going to make more Black Knights and I'm like I just can't imagine them doing that it was such a shit seller for them yeah it did tank I just think really it feels challenging to me that they're going to sort that out. But who knows? I can't see them doing it. But interestingly, on Pinside and on Stern, the Stern pinball enthusiast group on Facebook, there was a lot of love for the game, which is great to see. I love it. I've got it. I had a premium.
    9:53
    I do miss it. I think it had some of the best music and animations and call-outs in any modern game. I think the upper playfield was probably a missed opportunity, I think. That could have been better.
    10:07
    But otherwise, to be honest, I quite like the whole boss mechanics that you had to fight. Yeah, I like the code. It was risk-reward code, which I tend to like. You've got to go for the shots. The upper playfield, I do agree with you. I think that was built up and it's at least with the latest code it was actually okay, not too bad but with the kind of, I don't know there was a lot of people moaning about the premium You know, the shots at the top being really easy.
    10:53
    The shots at the top being really easy and the shots, you know, not kind of taken away from the game, basically.
    11:03
    Yeah, I think, like, one thing I thought was a little bit weird, you know, I had the ball save, the Magna save, and they stuck that on the extra action button on the apron. And obviously every other game, even Rick and Moy, which is fairly recent, has a ball save feature. that's still a button that's next to your right flipper. I think logically they should have added another button there. It probably wouldn't have been too much hassle for them to have rooted an extra hole and added the button there. Yeah, I mean, so I couldn't agree more. And actually they ended up doing it for Munster. So, you know, and that sold almost as well as Black Knight.
    11:40
    I think that sounds bad code though, right? Because it's had lots of code updates recently and a lot of people actually say it's quite good now. yeah maybe you disagree I just think I'll be honest with you I just think the whole game every part of it is terrible I like the theme I thought the little mini playfield was quite cute yeah it just feels a bit kind of Fisher Price to me but yeah I mean I think if you're a novice player again it's another one of those games that bodes well for novice players but to me it felt like a remake of monster bash done really badly um you know the game format similar the shots are kind of similar some of the rules are kind of similar but and then but the thing that killed it for me were those big what big bar targets um i just thought they looked absolutely terrible basically so i i know what i mean you can talk about drop targets for a little bit but like i find that the mechs are quite cumbersome building out drop target mechs you look at what goes into making a drop target you can see why modern pinball machines just don't have them because they just they take up a lot of space and there's a lot of better materials involved which you look at like turtles for instance they do that long bar don't they yeah for the sort of bash target if you want to call it a large stand-up target if anything else i love drop targets but i can see why they cut them out yeah i mean i mean i so i mean this you know we're gonna to speak a little bit about cactus canyon that's where they've redesigned the drop targets on cactus canyon three times now um yeah so the one advantage of our games not having arrived yet is that we've got the latest build um so like the latest revision of it so yeah so they rebuilt so i mean and actually i think it was just before but if you go on the texas pinball website um or YouTube and look for Texas Pinball, Booch does this amazing, I mean, an unbelievably great presentation on all the things they had to fix. And Drop Targets was one of the big ones. And they've redesigned them twice. They redesigned them initially for the launch of the game and then they redesigned them again after there was a few niggles with them. So, you know, in some ways I'm glad that we haven't got the game because we've got all these little fixes that are required. Yeah, hopefully we don't have to then get parts sent to us in the mail. Exactly, which in most cases never arrives. But no, I'm kind of pleased about that.
    14:24
    But yeah, I mean, this Black Knight Topper, I've only seen one guy who's got them. I haven't seen anyone else who's got them or who's getting them.
    14:34
    And you put them on the website and everyone's like, oh, why are they doing more of those tops? because they're not selling the game. It kind of does feel weird.
    14:45
    And then I was like, oh, maybe if they're going to remake the game, and then that kind of snowballed into, oh, it's coming out. I was like, no, it's not. It's not coming out. Be serious, right? I still think it's their best topper. Oh, by a mile. Although I have to say, I kind of like the Bond topper as well. It's different. and they've now on bond they've now started to really code it well yeah I mean the only thing that's interesting about the Black Knight topper is the places that have got it listed the price of it is $1,500 I paid $400 for mine I know it's mad basically you can't really defend inflation there can you that's I've said many times people say cash grab for Stern and I kind of challenge it this time it's hard even for me to defend that as an increase it just seems insane Toppers have really taken off in popularity I'd say yeah I mean I think it's partly people didn't have any during lockdown people had money, they couldn't go on holiday they couldn't go out so they had money, they wanted to buy shit and I think the outcome of that is toppers went ballistic I mean everything went ballistic interestingly there's an online shop with a topper available for half that price but it says it's got 100 in stock and they take your fear out right yeah probably quit deal.com uh i don't think so um yeah i mean i mean it's it's um i don't know it just feels it feels weird so actually no so actually i just found another web this great american pinball you're usually on the ball on this stuff um stern has re-released the black knight sword of rage topper these toppers will start to ship in the next week or so dress up that black knight from stern pinball um please allow two weeks two or four weeks for shipment um these guys are 45 minutes from stern's um manufacturing factory so and actually they had a huge stand uh expo but yeah what so so it looks like it's definitely the topper at least is coming back and it's an advertised price of 1500 or 1500 bucks yeah um which is ridiculous I mean I've got to admit if I still had a Black Knight I probably would have got one even at that price but the thing is for that sort of money actually if the topper had come out that kind of money I'd be like yeah okay but it's when you see the other garbage toppers that have come out for the same amount of money like Avengers topper, Jurassic Park topper you know they were all more expensive and it's like what? where would you make turtles I actually think it's got this eye that moves it's quite cool but it's not I just think it was like the silly part about it was you got the logo yeah and then the logo it's like you don't need it twice yeah I don't know why they didn't move it somewhere else but I mean the thing is the thing about turtles is the topper's not really tied into the game that's the big issue with it So it kind of just flashes and moves around. But whereas pretty much all the other, you know, even the Led Zeppelin topper does stuff depending on the mode. I think the fancy toppers are, to be honest with you, the ones that come from CGC. You look at like Cactus Canyon, it's pretty good. You've got Cowboy. And it's, from what I've been told at least, because again, I still don't have it, it's tied into the game logic. And I feel like, you know, games like that, Pulp Fiction's topper, I've got to admit, if I was to have a Pulp Fiction, it has to have that topper. It's so good. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the top of Pulp Fiction is awesome. Yeah, I mean, they've always done a great job. Actually, to be honest with you, I was a bit disappointed with the Monster Bash topper because the figures are there, but they don't do anything. They're just kind of static. And same with when they did the Medieval Madness one as part of the Royal upgrade. It just felt a bit like... They might, though, in the next release, right, maybe do something more special, especially to justify the rumoured price increase of the game. Yeah, I'd be amazed if they did that. But, you know, I mean, I think for Monster Bash, the folks that bought an LE like me, I think that would really piss them off if they did something with the top half. But it pissed me off, put it that way.
    19:36
    And, I mean, right now, you know, I think CGC, who make probably the best games of all time in terms of quality. I mean, I heard some nonsense about people saying the build quality of the Big Lebowski was great. Really? We had one in our club, right? One of the recent ones, not one of the original builds. Honestly, man, we asked the guy who brought it, Thomas, thank you very much for bringing it, Thomas. He's one of the founders. We asked him to take it away because it was broken more than it worked.
    20:13
    So, maybe, again, it was back to that boutique pinball thing that if you've got one at home, you're probably all right. but put it on location and handle an aggressive play basically on location is another thing right just made a cheese basically and every time I've seen a big Lebowski on a location it's been broken it's not been on so anyone saying that that's build quality or that's great they're obviously delusional I mean I can't there's no other way I can't comment really I've only seen the one that was at Pinfest. I'm trying to remember. I think it was somewhat reliable. I don't remember it being... Actually, of all the ones I've seen, it played well. It did have a couple of issues. The flipper came loose or something. I can't remember. Actually, we've got that game, or we had it at the UK Open. Phil loaned us for it for the free play area.
    21:13
    Actually, it was solid. It was played pretty hard, and it was solid. we didn't have to fix it the whole day so maybe they've got better but I certainly wouldn't be putting up with CGCers that's why I'm kind of relaxed about Cactus Canyon to some extent because I know when it arrives it'll work but I just saw on the forum Alan who's been waiting for his and Alan's kind of got an illness that is pretty ugly, actually.
    21:52
    Yeah. And so I actually offered him, hey, mate, I'm sure everyone thought I was doing some, you know, everyone thought, oh, you're so good of you, Neil. But I was kind of selfish in the fact that if my Cactus Canyon turns up right now, I've got nowhere to put it. It's a nice space. It's like, hey, Alan, can you take this? But, no, I mean, genuinely, it was more like, can you, you know, take mine, one, because I've got nowhere to put it, And two, I've got forever to play this game. So, you know, and I know Phil, I did speak to Phil about it, and he's like, you know, he's tried everything to get one. But, you know, just the way things are with CGC, it's hard to get any news out of them for anything.
    22:35
    But anyway, Alan's going to come down. I think we've changed a few emails. As soon as that arrives, he's going to pop down. Good, I'm glad. Because I'd like him to experience it and to play it, right? He's waited a long time. yeah and there's a i've got a load of games here that he hasn't played now he'd be like a kid in the candy store yeah in your place i'm sure of it yeah i look i hope so and um you know and you know and actually you know anyone if either if you see a game that i've got you want to play it it's not anywhere else just ping me an email i've had quite a few folks pop down and play stuff so just to get a view vibe for us i'd like a few people come down and play bond 60th because they wanted to know about it. Yeah.
    23:16
    So yeah, so Venom, great, awesome. A really flowy game. It doesn't deserve the shit that it's getting right now at all, in my view. And I think, to be honest, I'm kind of glad because I now know that there's hardly any in the UK, which makes my game all the more desirable. More desirable when it comes to getting... A bit like Stranger Things, right? Stranger Things, I mean, Deadpool,
    23:42
    What else? Elvira? Deadpool. I'm just going to put it out there, by the way. I do think that game is shit. I'm sorry.
    23:52
    Everyone loves it. You're in a minority there, man. I know. I had that game for like two weeks and I was like, this is shit. My wife bought it for my 40th and I couldn't be bothered to get rid of it. I was just like, nah, this is crap. I don't like this game. I don't know what people find so fascinating about it. it's got no mix it's got nothing in it I'm just like wow if you're kind of on the toy side it's not I am very much on the toy side this game does nothing for me yeah it's not a big toy game but I mean I've got two of them I've got one here one in the club and I'm sure everyone's like flaming me right now yeah I mean you're like there's effigies of Scott being burned in the streets right now all this other political doomsday's stop. I said Deadpool shit. Let's get the torches and the pitchforks out. Deadpool to me is what Munsters is to you. That's how I relate to it.
    24:53
    Mate, there's someone coming round your house to blow it up now, I tell you. Jesus, that is... You're braver than me.
    25:01
    You're so outspoken. This guy said Munsters was better than Deadpool. Fucking hell. I'm not going to lie.
    25:11
    Oh dear right Quickly moving on before we both before people make voodoo dolls of us and we start feeling weird pains um and the other thing obviously the other thing i got theater magic home um and mate you did such a good job of it uh it plays so well i can't i'll be honest with you i'm gonna i'm gonna come clean right on on this um i was very nervous about because you know i like the games to play in a certain way and i was very nervous about will it play as good as it did because it did play great i mean it was it was doing me wrong right that game you have to dial it in to get it right exactly and i was very worried about that but honestly me i i and i kind of expected to have to tweak it a lot um apart from the fact that the flippers were were loose and they've come everyone's giving me some crap about that they're gone your flipper alignments off i think what happened is i probably just didn't tighten them yeah that's it that's all it is mate i think in the when i brought it home because it was in your house it was perfect right um so i think they just aren't tight enough but i haven't got around to fixing that but i will i might actually post more pictures on facebook to kind of freak out dave the train and he's ocd uh he caught me we'll talk about it in a moment actually i suppose we can talk about twilight zone now it kind of pushes onto that neatly but like um i went to go pick up a twilight zone just weekend gone by yeah and as i'm there david vi who you might know is the avatar name on on the on the train as i like to call him yeah david mowry like he just shows up out of the blue and i'm like what are you doing here and he's like oh i've come to help put some games together to help them you know to sell them because basically the story had gone one of unfortunately the father-in-law had passed away and he was an active member on the forum from White Gather and he had quite an avid collection and basically the son-in-law who was the person selling it his name's Ian, he'd obviously put the feelers out in the forum saying I've got all these games but I don't know what to do with them I want to keep maybe one or two of them but some of them aren't working because unfortunately the father-in-law he basically got to a position I think where he didn't really plan for it but he was working on games they were in somewhat some disassembled states and unfortunately he passed away and then the games were left in a disassembled state so yeah David out of his own good will just shows up randomly on the doorstep while I'm there to pick up one of the games and he's there fixing them oh that's cool that's one thing I suppose you can definitely count on on the forum there's a lot of generosity oh yeah massively mate i mean you know there's there's you know look and i think there's more givers than takers um which is always a good balance you know i've been on a few forums where it pivots to takers all the time um and then it's just like why am i here um but yeah i look i mean i i think the um the you know i mean it's just one thing to say right um you know the think about your in this world think about what happens to your collection after you've gone um because it isn't if you know if something happened to me it's and i'm saying this i'm recording this publicly so if i get hit by a bus tomorrow which you know all of the north pinball crew will be celebrating but um if that happens scott matt vince brad um and there's someone else i was thinking of you guys are in charge of helping my wife sell all this all my pinball machines i've said that to my wife you know i've got like um i don't know about you it's a bit morbid but i'm gonna briefly cover this i do have a book that i've given my wife because i don't about you she just lets me handle everything bills the lot right so it's all in there and along with that i've got a contact list to say when i die these are the people you need to speak to to get valuations from yeah i mean i mean i mean it's sad because there will be people who try it on right which is which is kind of ridiculous but um yeah i mean just do you think about it i mean i've got like so many games that probably my wife will like how many games has bought. Because it would be the first she really understands the scale of it.
    29:45
    And then probably like 14 people are emailing a Neil said. But you know, it is something just to think about. More so because some folks have got some really cool games that there's not that many of them or they're rare or frankly the family money you know it's it's uh it's a crazy thing to say but yeah i don't know about you but my immediate family just think i've lost the plot um they don't get it they're just like you could be having so much money and you just spend it on lights and boxes yeah it doesn't mean anything one game is the same as another why have 10 let alone one yeah i mean i i i get it um as well and you know it's kind of weird they kind of come in and they're like oh this is cool and then they go away they don't actually play them there's a few my granddaughter hates pinball which is a bit frustrating so she's a video gamer so I'm always playing with her but yeah it's kind of it's a weird thing but there is one thing again I'm putting it on video that my medieval madness is promised. It's actually in my will. Wow.
    31:12
    It's kind of a long story. But Tim, who runs Pinball Live streaming, he does the stream for Pinfest. Really good guy.
    31:26
    He's always like, ah, these remakes are never going to last as long as the originals. And I'm like, right. So, Tim, I am leaving you my medieval madness when I kick the bucket it is yours on the condition that you keep it and you play it and then you say a prayer saying Neil you were right this game lasted a lot longer than I expected and I kid you not my wife thought I was mental but it is written in my will that he gets that game good for you man you have to go and collect it though definitely put in your how can I put it put your money on it exactly that's what I'm looking for look I always get frustrated when people kind of just make kind of a ballsy statement about something without actually understanding it and Luke don't get me wrong there are certain ways that things were made in the past that might have been like clear coats because you're able to use chemicals you can't use today. And they were always going to be better. But, you know, electronics, modern electronics today, you know, if they're done properly, man, they piss all over the ancient stuff. I can tell you for a fact. So in my last job, you know, we had, I don't know, 90s-era telephony switches, right? Literally, if I was to pull one of the cards out and show it to you, Scott, it looks so much similar to the electronics on a pinball machine you know and actually it's kind of funny because I was able to repair a few parts because it was just capacitors that kept blowing I was like oh it's easy I can just replace the capacitors like single layer yeah and everyone looks at me like I'm some sort of electronics genius and I'm like this is simple shit and actually the company I work for now we make like high end routers like with kind of 20 level PCBs that would blow your mind you try repairing a track that's in one of those layers but this is the thing if you want that sort of performance you've got to realise that you can't repair it repairing a terabit capable router, you'd just be mad to try and solve that because you're probably going to cause more damage than you're going to fix but yeah make sure you've prepared who's going to look after your games the community is good for stuff like that and it's great that this guy's getting help and people are mucking in you know if that was someone local i understand now he sold his last game so he's kept uh on the advisement of other people including me he's kept his attack from mars he's kept a medieval madness um which i said definitely out of his entire collection that they had there yeah classics um he'll do well keeping those um and then yeah from from i understand even the star trek which was the last one there because I was on the R.A. myself to pick it up but it was between that and the Twilight Zone and I decided, even though I know you're not a fan of the game, I decided to thump up the extra cash to get that. You picked the wrong one.
    34:39
    I always said to you when I first started out with Pinball, I am late to the show with all of this and I do want to experience even the games that I would say are held in private by others but maybe not so much by most, let's say, or something like that and Twilight Zone is one of them. I mean Twilight Zone's got a huge following it's not a terrible game it's like everything it gets a lot of hype it's a tough game to keep running yeah I mean so Star Trek actually in fact I've never found a Star Trek it's rare when you find a Star Trek where everything works but both are good games I tend to like the flow of Star Trek more than the Twilight Zone feels a bit stop-start for me sometimes but um no you'll love it and it is you know i've had a twilight zone for a while not i think three weeks and then i was like i'm done i've got this out my system scratch that yeah and um you know it is good to get these games and swap them around and you know because i think when you've got them at home you get to experience them at a level in a depth that you just never do on site this is the issue i find with like a pin fest is a good example because there's just so many games you can't experience the sound and you can't really get into the game because there's sometimes just the pressure of somebody hanging around with your shoulder going i want you to die so i say die but you know i mean fail when you're shot lose the ball lose the ball the ball and you can kind of feel their eyes on the back of your shoulders you know burning in like laser beams but um yeah well look and and are you gonna are What's the plan for it then?
    36:18
    I'm definitely going to restore it. Basically, it had, as I mentioned to you before, I alluded to the fact that it was one of the games that had basically been unfinished. So the clock had been dismantled. From what I understand, that's a common part to fail. Yeah. So I've got to reassemble that. There might be not all the parts there either. So I've just got to make sure I've got everything before I try and reassemble it all.
    36:41
    I've got to sort out the power driver board. it keeps resetting um it's had a new mpu board for it so i don't think it's anything to do with the mpu i think it's dropping five volts and i think it's just resetting so got to basically recap probably address um you know maybe in the bridge effect rectifiers i'll do some checking on it so there's that stuff to do cabinet it's got some wear on it and in unlike it's funny right because i was speaking i mentioned to you david was there so he's there with me and he's like guys it's fine it's mint condition i look at it and i go nah it's not i we have very different ideas of what's mint like the decals are faded it's called that typical twilight zone fade you know the sun hit it and it's more white than than yellow and orange these days um and it's got chunks missing out of it from the usual knocks and bashes that you'll get from people moving it across location addresses whatever so i i like for me at least just like i did with your twilight your fear of magic i like it to look tidy yeah just to me i don't care that it's reproduct reproduction decals i want it to look clean and that to me is more important than keeping originality i think where there's sensible to go like hey look you know if the game's like my premium and it's somewhat in great condition don't touch it there's only a small mark on it absolutely i'm with you on that but when it's got faded decals and chunks missing out of it it's like that i i want it to look good it needs to look nice yeah no and look i think um in that scenario you know you you're definitely adding value because you know a bottom end twilight zone i'll go for i don't know four grand the top end one i'll go for eight or nine maybe even 10 grand so you know you you in that you know twilight zone and adams and um i'd say indiana jones yeah and and totan and theater magic as well a little bit they're they're the they're they've got go up the scale yeah and you look at something like star trek it has a ceiling very early on absolutely replace a playfield and do a cabinet work on it you're like i'm never gonna get my money back yeah I mean, I think I saw Star Trek Next Gen, some guy wanted six grand for it. It wasn't even a nice one. I'm like, this guy's on cocaine. Even if it was brand new out of the box, you're not going to get six grand for our next generation. It's just not realistic. But Twilight Zone easy, right? Yeah. I think, I mean, good luck with the clock. It's one of the most bizarre mechs of all time. Mike Park At the club We were lucky to have his toilets on there for a while And the clock was always something He was fiddling with It's now at Medway actually Down in Kent Big shout out to Tony and Mike who run there Great place For some different games And they've also got Thunderbirds So knock yourself out Credit to him though As you say he's got the games that Most people just be like you know he's got like Jetsons as an example right just to experience those games and say hey I've played a Jetsons or I've played a Thunderbirds that's cool I'm not going to lie it's like you know I'd never owned them it is good that you can you don't have to own them to figure out how terrible they are I did ask Tony when his what was that game that just came out the one based on the band oh shit It's just going to my head. Oh, Spinal Tap. Spinal Tap, sorry, yeah. So I did ask him, I said, hey, Tony, when's your Spinal Tap arriving?
    40:29
    Which he was like, he kind of looked at me funny. I think even that is too bad for him. That's too far.
    40:36
    Yeah, so, I mean, like I say, good luck with Theatre Magic. We'll keep an eye on that. I guess you'll be posting updates on the forum. Yeah, yeah. Don't trigger David anymore. Get upset if those flippers aren't aligned.
    40:49
    I'm going to do it. I think I might stream it this weekend with the flippers in banana form. I'll make it... Yeah, I'll change the rubber band so one's white and one's black.
    41:03
    And I'll, like, put the... the, uh... the kind of slingshot plastics on upside down on each side just to freak his... be like a chalkboard with nails.
    41:19
    Um... So, yeah, the – so it brings me on to the next thing. Actually, I was going to mention this. The British Modder, so I don't know if you saw Davey's podcast that he started, In Before the Lock, which he's done two episodes. It's a brilliant podcast.
    41:44
    I forget the link of it, but I'll put it in the notes. But he's done two and really interesting, really get to understand what's going on with the mods. And actually, I've been working with him, John, Jazz Boucher, Paul.
    42:01
    I kind of bought a few mods for some of my new games. I bought this amazing Bond laser mod for Bond. It's absolutely freaking awesome. Is that where he's on the table? Yeah, yeah. So it's up on the kind of side ramp bit. And it takes input from the optos. so it's actually like a game within a game it's so well done and Paul's like sold out for like the next 10 years on it which is great to see again I'm a British mod maker he's using some of the technology that Stumbler's created because I got the Stumbler mods DMD on my Twilight Zone and then Dave's you fear of magic but yeah sorry fear of magic you're right actually you got called out for calling Jim Henson Jim Henderson mate oh yeah he did yeah you're right I should have got crucifix for that rightly so to be honest I didn't even pick up on it I was trying to think where did you get Jim Henderson from I was like I just couldn't think of it so yeah so I got that mod I got from John he's got this Bond button it's like a gear stick from the Aston Martin where you flick the button and press it like the ejector seat I've got that on both you can't really see it but it's on both my Bond games at the back if you're on YouTube you'll see them and then obviously Godzilla it's amazing the light Godzilla I was talking to when I was in Chicago I was talking to Anna who's part of the shit, they do a pinball kind of lifestyle magazine called is it Soft, no it's not Soft Plunge I can't remember what it's called but I'll look it up whilst I'm yakking and she was like she was like, Neil do you know the guy who's got that mod? I was like yeah yeah he's a British really good guy he's like ah has he got any left? and I was like, well, I know the list's busy, but I got on the list.
    44:17
    And I was just amazed at the reach those guys have now got. You know, John, you know, they're making some – I know you're making a topper as well, I think. Yeah, I finished them. Have you finished them all? I'm fitting them on Saturday. Oh, excellent. I mean, it's great to see some pinball creation coming out of the UK. and Davey's got a load of new stuff coming out.
    44:43
    I've got a mate of mine that's got some real special stuff coming up soon. But we'll talk about that when it comes out. I think it's really exciting. The game-changing stuff is what I would say. Like, really good. People will want it. But I won't let him, because he's very conscious of, he's going to let me test it first. I'm going to be his beta tester. and we're going to run through and make sure it works solidly and then he'll announce it but it honestly i think people will be very happy to be using the product when it's out awesome i mean yeah so the magazine's called nudge you can get it from pinball life or i think you can get it from their website but it's a really cool magazine it's not it's kind of it kind of talks about a lot of different things it's more like a kind of like a coffee table magazine as they call them but anna's one of the i think she's one of the um producers or writers or editors i don't know Anyway, she's a great pinball player as well.
    45:37
    So, yeah, so, you know, and it just occurred to me that all these mods... Actually, the one I've got coming from Davey is the Foo Fighters building one for the LE Premium. Yeah, they look really good.
    45:48
    I'm excited about that. How is he making it? Is he working in partnership with Sphinx or anything like that? How is he making the actual buildings? Yeah, I think he's working with a few people, but I think increasingly... I think Swinx might have, I don't know about this one specifically, but I think on some of the other mods, I think they kind of work together on them. I mean, Dave built the Lollipop board, which is such a powerful board.
    46:16
    And, you know, the Bond Table mod uses it. I've got another, there's a couple of other mods. So because I've got the LEs, these guys have reached out to me and said, hey, Neil, can you test this on the LE, make sure it fits all right? and actually I'm like yeah okay like the Godzilla one I'm like hey Paul it fits perfectly how much do I owe you send them out I was like no guys I'm buying this if you hadn't sent it to me I would have bought it right and I've got to send Paul some money for the Bond table one because I think it's absolutely amazing and it's sounding like hotcakes I think he's just in the process of shipping the third batch of them out but the attention to detail on it is just insanely good and the little the lasers and the way it works the old school mods weren't they I've noticed it a lot when I was like doing Adam's Family I noticed the mods were just pretty bad most of them are just like they've drilled out a toy and stuck an LED in it and it doesn't do anything these guys are actually creating integration with the game that to me is what a mod is all about really it's just adding value in terms of like not in terms of resale ability but in terms of like hey this looks 10 times better with this in the game and it's adding dynamic and this is something that Davey said he did a speech at Pimble Expo and his goal was that he wants to create mods that people wouldn't know that they're modifications they feel like they're part of the game and with the Tokyo mods there's no doubt that he's done that I don't know anyone with a Godzilla that doesn't have that Tokyo mode. I wouldn't be surprised if Stern started approaching them sooner or later, you know, and saying, actually, can you help develop stuff for us? Because they are, to be honest with you, professional level mods. Oh, you say. I mean, I would be cautious if I was them because the margins, you know, the great thing is that, you know, people are paying for the value, but, you know, a big manufacturer probably, I don't know, I'd be, I just think that they would, I'm not sure they would go down the. I know the Art of Pinball's done it, hasn't he? Yeah.
    48:27
    Pinball Brothers to do a lot of the Alien stuff. Yeah, he's doing Pinball Brothers. I think he was working with JGP as well. Yeah, I think he is.
    48:38
    But he goes to show that they are doing it. I mean, there are companies that are approaching modders and saying, come make some stuff.
    48:46
    How can I put it? A licensed official level. Yeah, exactly. and I mean that's one of the things that modders are slightly nervous about is that they are still kind of on the edge of the license but I genuinely think that they're adding value and you know some of this stuff isn't super cheap but the reason it's not super cheap if it does what look at the toppers for instance sometimes as you said Stern haven't made the best topper but I think Godzilla's topper is a missed opportunity It's rubbish. Yeah. You look at, I don't know if you've seen, there's one recently that came out, look like a diorama. Like there's a building, like a blast straight at it. You're like, God damn, that's a lot of detail. Like to me, it doesn't, it won't be to everyone's taste, but that's the kind of thing that I like. It's like, you know, if these models can see something and they go, I envisage this in my head and I wanted to do all this. It's great. I'm more than encourage it. I love that about pinball. That's probably. Yeah, me too. And you know, that's why I want to, I mean, this is the thing, right? They're expensive, but the reason they're expensive is because they're good, right? It is the age old adage of you pay for, you get what you pay for, right? And the stuff coming out of these, out of these guys, um, you know, it's just, it's just so well put together. Um, and, and also like there was, um, the, the bond gear stick had some little issue, you know, and, and John's all over running around trying to, trying to sort it. Um, it was weird. I kind of really felt for them because it looks like Stern, you know the plunger housing thing the square thing that the plunger goes into at some point Stern changed the dimensions They did yeah And they didn pick up on it So the test ones fitted everything.
    50:40
    But then when the real ones came out for the game, the dimensions were different. None of them fitted. And I really felt for them because how do you prescribe for that? It's just difficult. But my hat's off to them all. They're great guys and they're doing some really cool stuff and really adding value. I'm not a big... I maybe put one or two things on or stuff that's cool like Stranger Things. I've got a little arcade game and I've got the quilt with the lights on it.
    51:11
    I've never watched the TV show, but it looked cool. You give me all that crap for not watching Spinal Tap, but you haven't watched the series of Stranger Things. In my defense, in my defense, I watched the first two episodes and thought, this is an awful load of old shit, and I just couldn't watch it anymore. Season two is garbage, but season one and season three, yeah, pretty good. My wife really liked it, but I just could not get into it. I will get that game back one day, even though I stupidly let an LE go by for next to nothing. I give that to Ant. He owes me one, and he knows it. I might have another go at watching it. on the basis of I gave you homework. If you have any 80s nostalgia, it will appeal because it references so many different things. There's even a part where some of the kids start singing Neverending Story. It's crazy. You remember that, right? I'm trying to forget. I love that. It was okay. I liked the music and it was good for a change.
    52:21
    To be honest with you, there's that scene with the horse when that horse dies, you're like, God damn, you can never get away with filming that these days. Because it's not PG. They're sticking a horse in mud. The horse is probably thinking, what the hell's going on? It's very well done. That scene alone is beautiful. I know you see at the end of it, no animals were harmed. Yeah. Yeah, right. Maybe not physically. That horse was traumatized, I'm sure of it.
    52:47
    All right, let's move on. We couldn't do a podcast without mentioning the Stern app calamity. Yes. Well, it's a misstep. You might say calamity. Mate, it's so basic I wanted to cry. I mean, look, I love what... I'm an online guy, right? My whole life I've been putting, connecting shit to the internet and building the internet, right? So, you know, that's why I've got Scorbet. You know, as soon as the Scorbet guys came out, I was like, I'm having 20 of them. I'm getting all my games online, right? Because that's... Everyone else in my house is online, right? It drives my wife nuts, but even the kettle, you can boil the kettle remotely and just make sure there's water in it.
    53:31
    But no, look, when Stern announced that they were... This was actually when your favourite game, Deadpool, came out. They announced that they were... Just after it came out, they announced that they were going to do an online thing, right? And I gave my business card to George and said, look, George, if you want any kind of... I've built this shit. I've built a lot of stuff like this. And also security-wise, I said, look, if you need help, give me a shout. And for those guys, I'd do it for nothing, right? Because it's a passion thing, right?
    54:05
    Yeah, and also you want it to be successful. I want this stuff online. There's a lot of naysayers about, oh, why are you putting pinball machines online? And they come out with all sorts of doomsday about, well, they're spying on me. I was like, wait a minute. they're spying on you but you've got a mobile phone you're on facebook um and you've got 10 bank accounts are you conversations and throwing adverts up two minutes later i just think what are you talking about and and and honestly you know if you've got any of those things it's like you know i'm going off grid but i'm keeping my mobile phone you're not going off grid then dude you know it's and then but they cocked up on this actually there's two things they kind of I wouldn't say they cocked up on but obviously I mean one great thing is they put a big code release out for like 20 plus games sure which couldn't have been easy no I mean I have to say doing the release engineering for that holy moly that would have been tough but I'll say I will say I mean I think I mentioned this in a live podcast, but I did have a bit of a nag at Sterling and say, man, God, why are these games rebooting all the time? Because at the UK Open, we had quite a few games rebooting, and I got some feedback. Look, Neil, we know about it. We're working on it. And actually, how is your Foo Fighters? And I was like, Foo Fighters was pretty solid. So yeah, so we've kind of done some work on that, and it's going to get out to the rest of the game. So I believe that a lot of these kind of stability fixes are in all this code that they've just pushed out. Or at least, maybe not every single game but a lot of them all have had it right um and there's some updates some good updates to ovira uh foo fires on an update venom on an update um even actually black knight we're talking about earlier there was some tweaks to black knight to kind of a few things tim sexton who was a design the code designer didn't like it was surprising right because i mean i don't want to sit there and bully jjp because that's an easy target right but i am going to say it to this day where's the Guns N' Roses updates? Where's the updates for Pirates of the Caribbean? It's like Stern are looking at their back catalogue and they're updating it. But even worse than that Scott, Godfather has not had an update for over a month. Has it not?
    56:28
    So Carl DeAngelo streamed Godfather the other night and he said yeah this is a month old and I was like what are all our programmers doing?
    56:39
    You know because they're not updating anything. And Elton John, they've got a different set of coders on that. And I'm like, are they just, I don't know, smacked out on drugs or something and eating Twinkies? Because I struggle to understand how one organization can put out code updates at a volume that is this big. And those guys can't do it. And it doesn't compute for me at all, if I'm honest. I mean, you've got people even like Pinball Brothers, and I know they're not your favorite company, but they're doing updates to Alien, do you know what I mean? And they did updates to Queen. I mean, everyone appears to be doing code updates. And even, I think, Dutch Pinball did a Lebowski update. Yeah, yeah. And these guys, you know, compared to JGP, these guys run – I struggle with what's going on there. And I feel – I really feel for the – you know what I really feel for is the folks that put the passion in building games, like Eric, Steve Ritchie, and all those other guys. They're not building games to make money because those guys are talented. If they wanted to make money, there's a million other industries.
    57:52
    They're in it for the passion. You've got an organization that's just not firing on all thrusters, is how I might politely put it.
    58:04
    I hope all of John has updates because, let's face it, that's their big ticket winner now that's their next Guns and Roses I think yeah I mean I hope so I really hope it sounds like a hot cake because I'm really annoyed that my alien principals won't let me buy the game I'll need to wait for someone to sell one cheap and then I might pick one up second hand you can't pick two guns on it because as I say I think the way they handled the playfield issues oh it's shocker man shocker but yeah look the code updates were great I mean there was also this minor a few lorry about the adverts that I don't know if you saw it but they added this kind of I saw your response video they added this I mean I was like are you kidding me on like adverts honestly they're everywhere right actually Puma Machine's an advert I've got Foo Fighters sitting in front of me advertising Foo Fighters right I mean the whole thing's an advert they used to do it I think it was when you played Hook it used to advertise Lethal Weapon 3 Yeah, and Star Trek, the original series Star Trek game would advertise Hook.
    59:13
    I mean, it's just laughable, the noise that this caused. And I just despair, especially with the fact that with like 10 button presses, you can turn them off, right? I think that's right. If you've got the ability to turn it off and they're not going to lock that out in the future, then, nah, it doesn't bother me. But the kind of, I don't know, conspiracy theories that came out of it, like, oh, well, the next thing they're going to do is sell your data to these advertisers and, you know, you'll be flipping. I think they're worried because the new CEO, doesn't he come from EA, from memory? From Disney. Oh, from Disney, even worse. so basically let's face it disney does not have the best track record for basically caring for the consumer or what they want it's just a money train i don't know i mean i well look i kind of think i look i kind of think about companies that have made me cry emotionally and Disney's right up there like you know I took my granddaughter to Florida when she went into Disney World she was like and honestly I was like wailing right watching some of the Disney movies or the Avengers you know they're all Disney that's all Disney's produced stuff you know there's so many times I was in you know in tears or both with sadness and joy right and I think it's hard to put a price on that but you know them selling it depends if they take your favourite franchise and run it into the ground well yes if they take or also they charge like 120 bucks for a Disney princess dress oh they're now to make money at Disney World I'm sure you're a person like that oh yes mate I've gone nuts and I've had to buy another suitcase to get shit home but I mean My take on that is One I met Seth A few times he seems like a good guy to me I don't think he knows a lot about pinball Which in some ways is good Because Sterling actually don't need any help on pinball I would say They're firing on all the thrusters George has got a good team He's put some new blood in I think what I'm only worried about Is that they probably I don't know are they oversaturating the market now I feel like now that they've caught with their backlog and that it's almost like can the market keep up with their release schedule and I think the answer to that is no I mean but but this is the thing right I mean I was listening to uh Zach many on on the pinball show which is you know Zach shares a lot of details about his view of the market which is which is which is which is you know probably quite a good vantage point but not the only vantage point because he's very much focused on new sales but the thing I the thing that he said about that was he's pretty confident that this year has been the best year for Stern This year has? Yeah, he thinks it's actually been better than last year and that's with only releasing two games, right? Was it Venom and what was the other game? Oh, Rush I mean Rush was a bit of a Was it on Foo Fighters this year? Or was that last year then? Oh, no, sorry, you're right. Foo Fighters, you're right, it wasn't last year. It was Foo Fighters and Venom. You're right, sorry.
    62:48
    And, you know, they've both been, well, Foo Fighters, I think, are a good seller for Stern. Venom, less so. But when they go back to three games a year, you know, what happens then?
    63:02
    I don't think we need it. With the amount of pins we've got from other companies now, there's just so much. I mean I don't want to say it's well for choice but we're getting to a point where money is finite I know let's face it there's people who are earning more than you or I put together but like it's I don't know is there so much money in the world for them to just keep buying everything and space and time I remember when we were talking about Pinfest where I had Foo Fighters in the shed for a month and I hadn't had time to play it it's time it's money it's space I think Stern are going to say well if Pimble's a seller and we want to sell ours more than anyone else's they're the juggernaut they've got the factory to do it now right absolutely and you kind of look at some of the smaller guys if Elton John isn't a good seller what does JGP do I'm sure it will sell I think people have completely not completely but I think they've pushed aside the playfield issues now because we've had Godfather and no one really talks about playfield issues there you're right I think they're passing I just think Godfather was not a great pinball theme, Elton John historically he's been linked with pinball but it's appealing to an older demographic it depends on how much that older demographic has in terms of expenditure that's people like me, old fat bald guys right and I would buy it. If it wasn't for the fact that those guys are treating me really badly, I would buy it. It does look stellar. I'm not going to lie. It's a bloody light show. And there's been a few streams of it now where you can really get a vibe for it. Again, I think they need to change the person doing the call-outs because that woman was irritating as hell. Yeah.
    64:54
    Yeah, and then a link to the Stern code updates was the Stern app, otherwise known as Stern Broke Their Own Internet. and I kind of that sort of thing it's funny and I made a meme of Vincent from Pulp Fiction where he's wandering around you know that one where he's looking I did the meme with that didn't work, the kind of error that was coming up as a bit of a laugh but I'd much rather it worked and you know when you look at that I know a bit about building these sort of platforms. I just think, God, they've done it on, they've built it like an old website from the 80s or the 90s, rather. I don't know. The thing is, right, they could have stuck this in, I imagine it's in AWS or it's in Azure or something like that.
    65:47
    I'm not sure it is. Yeah. Dynamic grows with demand so that then it can burst. Even a burstable VM would have been good. But I don't know how well they've scaled it and whether or not they thought about the demand that was going to hit it. is maybe they're not fully understanding the user base. I don't think that they've got a kind of a web engineer, a modern, I'd call it like a full stack sort of engineer type, fabric engineer type. Look, if you're building a platform like that today, you build it serverless and you use function-based architectures and actually Scorbit, I know there are... You make it more like PaaS-based, basically. Yeah, absolutely. So the technology scales with the demand. Yeah, that makes sense, actually. And that's the way of building this. And actually, it's not that... I think people struggle with the architecture of that sort of thing. And the Scorbet guys have built it like that because those guys come from... The technical director of the score but you know you're right i'm coming at it from an ias point of view but i'm sorry we're getting too technical here but yeah you're right going from a platform to a platform-based database rather than building a vm putting a database on it locally and then trying to tax it with like you know adding resource you're right that's not the right approach and i don't know we're estimating how they've done it but i imagine the fact it fell over i mean server error 500 you know that that's never busy right there you go telling that's telling number right but but i just can't help but think have they really got the right um advisors and and i'll say again stan if you'd help with us you know you got my number um happy to come and help you guys um because i want it to work i want it to work well um and i say the scoreboard guys they've built it like you know ten of directors to score but um brian you know he he built a lot of the stuff that's called Slack, the application. And that's the sales. I think they've got like, I don't know, have they got a billion users on it? I can't remember. It's big, right? How many? Really? Well, I might be exaggerating that. It's a big number. It's millions for sure, right? And it's business. It's impressive to me to know that there's that many people using the products. You know what I mean? Because I always see my perception of pinball is always still that it's niche. I think I've definitely got to get myself over to the States and get myself into one of the pinball scenes. I'll probably go to one of the expos or something next year. Go to Texas, mate, would be my advice.
    68:29
    I mean, the thing about, and I'll really show you how big it is. I mean, the thing about the error that they hit, I've seen that with 100 people on a website. You don't have to have a lot of users to hit a database with logins. And the thing that was bad about it, it wasn't just affecting logins with the app. Games weren't able to log in as well. Oh. Yeah. And that, to me, is like a definite, like users not being able to log in, yeah, but games on location. You know, if you're really going to put payments and all sorts of other stuff on this, it's just no. You just cannot do that. That's just a big no-no. Sounds like they need to redo the architecture on this, to be honest. Absolutely. And there's people out there that would happily help them. Jay and the Scorbic guys, they'd love to help. I'm sure. I'm not speaking for them, but, you know, they know how to do this. I'd love to help them.
    69:25
    It's not... Do you see the lot of potential in it? I mean, I remember ages back when they were first demonstrating it, the ability then, they'd do events where, you know, you could tie into the operator's location and say, right, you know, if you did this many challenges, you've got a chance to enter for a prize draw at the end of the evening to win a certain prize or whatever. It brings people on location. And not to mention, you know, if you were looking for a specific game to play, a bit like Pinball Map, it will tie in and say, hey, there's a Stern Venom at X location. It's only four miles away from you or whatever. Yeah, but I mean, what I want to see is, hey, you know, if you hit 5 million on one ball, you get a free beer, you know, stuff like that. It's really going to, you know. Yeah, exactly. It just ties the operator's location together. Yeah, it just does a bit of value add. I mean, I think actually with Venom, I think they've, you know, Dwight's done a lot to kind of add online capability with the XP stuff. Again, I haven't figured out how it works. I will do, but I think that's quite interesting. But, yeah, I mean, look, the app's not working now, but it's a bit disappointing because it's basically the website and an app wrapper, which I kind of predicted it would be that, and it is. So I was a bit disappointed.
    70:39
    I would say it's early doors. Let's see what happens. That's the first generation of the app. The launch wasn't great. No. Hopefully they'll learn lessons. Well, I mean, in some ways, you know, I remember there was a – I remember I was talking to, I'm trying to think who it was.
    70:55
    It might have been the guys from one of the big newspapers who was launching their website. And I said to him, you know, aren't you worried that it falls over? And he's like, no, I actually kind of want it to fall over because then you become a bit legendary.
    71:09
    And this was like 20 years ago. Now you're just a bit of a joke. So, you know, the fact that you still haven't sorted this out, I do worry though being online it's not everyone thinks just phone one on one you got a website and boom away you go running a business online is not an easy thing to do so I hope they solve it let's move on can't help but also talk about the twippies so don't vote for us because we're not on it and we don't really care at least I don't care about awards and so vote for Scott but no it's me I've got a Twippy and I've also got an Emmy award, which one would I prefer no look I think for some of the mod maker types there's some aspects of it that are in my mind really quite cool I do like watching the two of you so I'm not going to lie I missed it not last year or the year before, last year I was actually both years I was at Texas, I missed it because I actually qualified in the tournament and the finals clashed with it so I missed it and then yeah I mean they put on a good show, it's a lot of fun I mean I think that's the key thing if it's fun it's great but you know I kind of chuckle at you know Kaneda and Chris like oh you know I'm a six time Twitter winner, I'm like, so freaking what? It just makes me laugh that people kind of... His biggest gerbil in the hamster pen.
    72:51
    Yes, you are the biggest piss in the ocean. I just get a bit kind of chuckly about that, but good luck to everyone that cares about it and vote vigorously.
    73:09
    I'll be honest, there's actually one If there's one thing I'd be voting for, the best streamer would be Carl D'Angelo because he does some great streams.
    73:22
    Actually, a podcast that I'd be voting for, I like Chris's podcast, but since he put it behind a paywall, it's not for me. I can understand why he does it because he does put a lot of effort into it. From the ones he's put for free, I can see they're quite short and concise. Some people will like that, right? I mean, and he's definitely plugged into a lot of the community and gets to know about things ahead of time. So if you want to, you know, if the rumor mill is what keeps you alive at night, then, you know, he's the guy to be plugged into. And I've met Chris a few times. You know, his persona is worse than him. but I do think sometimes you do need to draw the difference between personas and real people because if you want to be entertaining then building a persona is kind of crucial to it so yeah and then I'd also vote for the guys at Triple Drain who do a really good podcast yeah I've watched those more than a few times it's a lot of fun and they've got three characters that kind of you know, that kind of do a lot of kind of they kind of play off each other personalities work together and actually Joel was here in the Domino Arcade, so you'll hear from Joel soon and he was here, we were playing we actually did a competition, a nine game competition, Joel won by one game only because my excuse is he got to pick the games so he picked all the games I'm rubbish at but yeah he was over here he stayed local and we went to Pimora Public really enjoyed that and went to we went out for a bit of dinner in Windsor actually you'll hear from him later on but it was good to see him he's a good guy and then actually now kind of just reminding me about the club so some of you might be aware but Pimoro Public we've kind of been given a what they call a notice to cease the premises which is basically pack your bags you leaving and we knew this was coming It not a new thing We knew it The building was bought about I want to say just after the first COVID lockdown.
    76:01
    And we kind of, you know, the sort of company that bought it, I work for an investment company as an advisor as well. And when I looked at who it was, I was like, yeah, they're going to be kicking us out because they're going to level the place and either build houses or something modern. Right, right, apartment, something like that. Yeah, actually, it turns out they can't build apartments on the land. It's got some special use, but they can build modern industrial facilities, which is what I think they'll do. Oh, well, it's what I think their plan originally was when they bought the place. But with the interest rates and inflation, et cetera, I think they've had to shelve that. But they've been an okay landlord, not a great landlord, but they've been okay. But my take is that they've had a lot of issues with some of the other tenants. Right. And I think they just said, actually, we don't need to run this place. We'll just shut it down. Do you think there was like missed payments, stuff like that, or late payments? I don't know, something like that probably. But my take is they just thought, actually, this is more agro than it's worth. We're getting a few thousand quid, which to these guys really is a piss in the ocean.
    77:16
    And I think they're basically, actually, we could just shut it down. We won't have to pay rates. We won't have to pay electricity.
    77:22
    And I think they've just decided to do that. So we've been looking for a new place. Actually, we found a place that we're still working on. But the stark reality is we've been very lucky where we are. Pretty much we've been paying a third of what any normal business would be paying for the space that we've got.
    77:46
    Do you think you'd have to move further afield away from your location to somewhere north, cheaper sort of thing? I'll be honest with you, Scott, I'm not ruling anything out because we're beggars and beggars can be choosers. so look i i would much rather stay locally i mean it's kind of bizarre i would love to move away from croydon but the reality is is we've got a great the south east is just expensive though yeah but we've also got a base of customers and members there right so if we move if we move you know we'll lose some of them so and but i mean the big thing is is we're going to have to put the price up um no matter what we do no matter where we go it's more expensive so we have the increasing costs yeah we actually have a meeting at the club this sunday for members actually for anyone who wants to come uh let me just check the date of it it's sunday the 28th sorry 26th of november at 11am and if you care about the club come along and we're not going to announce anything but we're going to take you through the reality of our numbers and there's no all roads lead to we're going to have to charge more and you know we don't want to do that, we don't make any money at the club although we have been what we normally do is when we make money, we invest it in the club. But obviously, because we knew we were getting kicked out, we've spent no money on the club for the last year. That means we've built up a bit of a nest egg, which we thought, okay, we'll need that for the move. The nest egg is, you know, it's a few grand, but it's not big enough. And, you know, certainly it wouldn't help us last more than a few months. So we want to have a conversation with the members because if the members aren't bought into this, we're dead. it's just stop, let's not even waste any time so we need to see how many people really want the club to go off I think it's quite a lot but it's kind of okay, you value your club put your money where your mouth is because unfortunately if we don't well I do hope that they respond positively to it because there are only a few clubs in the UK and they're certainly not growing how can I put it a growing, how can I put it, environment. Like, if anything else, it's shrinking, because we already lost Nuneaton, which was an electric circus. Yeah, the pinball video.
    80:26
    But, yeah, it's still a hit, right? No, absolutely. One less venue, one less location, with a decent selection of games. And I feel like, for me at least, I wouldn't want to see that place go, Pinball Republic, because it's just, yeah, it's too much of a hit. There's nothing left then in the southeast. You guys are the last bastion, so to speak. Yeah, I mean, there's pinball office, but, you know, I hear from the rumor millers is that, you know, Chris who runs it there, I've never actually managed. Every time I've been there, the time has never worked for me to get over there, but I've heard a lot of positive things about it. and the rumour is Chris has kind of had enough.
    81:11
    He's kind of a collector type and again, I'm hearing this third hand so I'm happy to admit being wrong but a sense I get is he wants his games to stay in a certain condition. Of course, when you open them up to the public... They get hammered. Exactly. And if you're not up for that, don't do it because they will get hammered. So, I mean, hopefully that doesn't happen. but yeah it's looking bleak for pinball venues and to be honest here I rely upon the pinball republic the UK opens at least the UK open in the style of the way that we run it now where I've been running it it's dead I can't do it without the club so you know we'll be back Sunday get a decent turnout people are willing to support the venture in whatever shape it takes yeah I mean I think the members We've done a couple of surveys, and the surveys have been positive, but also in some ways have also been confusing. So what we want to be sure is that everyone understands what we're trying to do.
    82:17
    But actually, people can help. We've got the big monster meet. It's our sixth birthday, or is it seventh? I can never remember. But it's the weekend of the 1st, 2nd of December, so we got – let me just check the dates so that I don't get this wrong but yeah the 30th of November we got Ping Golf, the 1st of December we got Strikes in the evening I'm running that, we've then got a big massive tournament on the Saturday and another massive tournament on the Sunday, I think I might have to miss the Saturday one unfortunately because my grandson's birthday party but I'll be there for the rest of them so come along to that you can get more info at pinballrepublic.com or on our Facebook page, probably better on our Facebook page, or if you just search for the Monster Meet or Pinball Republic on Matchplay, you can actually register on Matchplay. I'm looking forward to that. It's always a good turnout.
    83:14
    We've got another one just after Christmas, but that's our birthday party. I'm hoping it's not our leaving party, but you know... We don't want that, Neil. It might well be, so I'm intending to enjoy myself and we'll see what happens but yeah I think pretty much the community I mean Pimple World Pucks has become a little bit of the centre of the community which some people don't like which is fine but other people I'd say we've added more I'd say we've given more than we've taken and I mean the question I've got is I've got 25 games there that I'm not quite sure what I'll do with so I might be loaning I've got no room I might be loaning games out for free keep watch this space on that because unless it's medieval madness I'll make room for that I know Matt might have space for it but no it's you know I'm hopeful I'm still hopeful that we'll find another venue as I say we found one place that we're talking to but the numbers are challenging and we've got to find a way to be self-sufficient. You know, I could chuck a loan. Wasn't there anything announced in the new budget in the government? I think they were talking about relaxing some business rates, weren't they? Oh, if they were, that might help us, but I'll take a look at that. But, I mean, the club's got to be self-sufficient. I could stick £20,000 or £30,000 into Easy and keep it running, but if I get hit by a bus, the club's dead. So, you know, I don't mind doing that as a one-off, but there's no way I'm going to do it as a regular thing because it just isn't workable basically plus I'll start dictating how things should be done which is never a good thing so that's where the club is and I mean the other thing I was just going to mention the draw for the Venom thing So we actually asked a kind of a weird question.
    85:30
    We asked what Brian Eddy's first game was. What we meant was what was Brian Eddy's first game as a designer, right? So some of you came out with Diner and other stuff, which, yeah, he worked on those games. And apologies, we weren't specific enough. However, we put everyone's name in the hat. We drew the names out. and actually shit I've just forgot the guy's name useful I tell you my brain at a certain time of night my brain just turns to jelly and I can't remember anything actually Brad won and I've posted the Venom thing out to him today and hopefully I asked him to take a photo of it and send it back but it was actually signed by the main guys, the design team so it was signed by Tanyo sorry, by Dwight, signed by Brian Eddy, signed by Jeremy the sound and also signed by Zombie Yay who did the artwork so it was an early flyer that we gave out. We're going to give another one away This one, Galactic Tank Force it's signed by Dennis Nordman and the coder who I can't remember his name I think it's Zach something but I can't honestly remember I can't remember myself I'll need to look it up this can be yours if you tell us the question I'm going to make the question slightly more specific what was the racing game that Dennis Nordman designed I thought you have to answer Dead easy. Dead easy question. So we'll put all the answers in a thing and we'll draw it. And actually, we'll talk about that racing game because we've got some plans afoot to do something with one. There's a bit of future content for us to talk about. A big box arrived this week, Scott, that is for that game. so yeah so that gives us something done we've actually got a bunch of other stuff that we'll give away I got a signed Bond limited edition I got a Foo Fighters Jack Danger signed it I got a few other of these things that we'll give away over the next few podcasts and try and maybe try and do a bit more a few more difficult questions conscious of time we're coming up to almost one and a half hours on the dot and the only thing left to mention is the rumour mill so other than the rumour mill of Black Knight being remade well the topper's definitely been remade by the sounds of it, the game I have to say if that game gets remade I think I'll come on the next podcast in a Hawaiian shirt I've got to admit it's a weird one to be revisiting, I don't know, maybe there's more demand than we think there is for that game but i i've never seen anyone at least in our area of the woods say hey i really want a black knight yeah i mean it's not it's not you don't see many wanted black knight um posts uh yeah i have to say it feels it feels like a stretch to me um considering how there are other games they could be re-releasing oh this is it do i make yeah do i make 500 black knights or do i make 500 godzillas for me it's a no brainer right Delta is still selling right it's an absolute no brainer that by the way I don't think is shit what's that no I was going to say it's not like Deadpool it's that's actually the right game we were in the Stern Factory making Deadpool normally the games are on the catalogue for 3 years but Deadpool must have been on there for like about 5 now it's been going since like 2018 I think I thought 2017 it was launched I may be wrong Is it 2018? Yeah, as early as I can remember it was 2018 Interesting, okay Still, that's a long time Expo 2018 that they announced Staring Inside a Connected Den I can't remember They're doing one, they're doing a pro run just before the end of Christmas and that's the last run of it apparently and yeah so I think they're doing they've moved the schedule around a little bit they've pushed some stuff out what's not clear is when they're making the new game so I still believe that Jaws will be announced just before Christmas. I was going to ask when do you think that announcement is going to be? I believe so if I was a betting man which I am on Grand National Day there's a story on that but if I was a betting man I would bet that they announce it on Tuesday the 19th of December. Okay, interesting. They'll do the usual two-second teaser, and then on the Wednesday or the Thursday, they'll push out the full video. On the Friday, they might stream it.
    91:03
    And then you might get a game. if you if if this is how it's worked out before but you might pick up a pro kind of 20 28th of december if you're near stern's factory and you go straight to the factory to get it um and then i think it will be on um it'll be it it'll be at ces consumer electronics show in las vegas the week of the third fourth and fifth which um actually i would normally be at that i'd normally tend to go to except indisc um 2024 starts on the 4th um of january so i'm flying out to la on the 2nd of january and actually i'm running one of the support tournaments on wednesday at riverside game lab great venue absolutely amazing venue it's just so good i'm running the pre the warm-up tournament on the 3rd and then indisc starts on the 4th which i'm really looking forward to and then i'm then and actually i'll be in vegas the week of the 15th so i'll get to see the new um pimbo hall of fame uh that opened up there a few years ago i've never i went to the first the original one but i'm not going to the new one so i get to see that have been hearing stories about the fact that a lot of those games are um out of action at the moment it's not new yeah basically so the last so when i was last at it the the old venue it was the same story. The games were in a right state and Tim, the guy that runs it, I don't know, have you watched the movie Special When Lit? Oh yes, I have, yeah. So Special When Lit you'll see Tim, this kind of long hair blonde guy sitting in front of a row of EM games. That's Tim. He's a bit of a how do I put it? He's a bit of a Victor Meldrew is how I might put it.
    93:01
    And he doesn't let anyone touch his games and Actually they held a world championship At the venue And he got really upset with people nudging the games And there was actually an amusing stream of him Losing his shit because some guy nudged The game I can't remember which event it was But I don't think they've hosted anything there since But yeah I'm looking forward to going If nothing else to see Some of the older, rarer games that are there Still Miss Banning which was just another epic pinball museum so yeah Luke we're going to do a Christmas special actually we're going to do it live so you can join in we'll post up the dates as soon as we can once we pin the dates down but we'll have some prizes we'll have some funky Christmas jumpers and yeah we'll have a bit of laugh we're not going to do them live all the time because it's quite difficult.
    94:06
    And the fact that Neil's internet is shocking anyway. Yeah, I know. Actually, let me just cover that, right? Fucking hell. And it's still a bit iffy, right? There's something weird going on.
    94:16
    So I've had this weird internet problem, and it's just bizarre. I've tried everything on it. And the latest thing I tried was I discovered that I've got a cable that links the shed to the main house. and it looks like my gardener I've got these big hedges and there's a guy who comes and trims them down every single... Yeah, sorry.
    94:41
    But help. You've got a gardener you cannot do it yourself mate, so that is the one expense I'm happy to pay for. Anyway, he appears to have chainsawed the ethernet cable but not only did he chainsaw it which is bad, but shit happens, right? But he did one worse than that. He tried to fix it, and he bodged together this most horrendous, like, packed lunch sort of box thing with what we call jelly beans that kind of bond cables together. But, of course, Ethernet works because it's, you know, it's an unshielded twisted pair, and if you untwist the pairs, Ethernet stops working, especially over long distances. So every now and again, Ethernet would flake out. and I'm like what the hell is going on so I finally found this and I was like I don't freaking believe it so today a guy has ran two new cables and I'm actually using them now but the issue is still there so something else it's better even during this show I'd say we've had a couple of drops here and there but ten times better than it was the previous episodes 100% but the first episode we did we didn't have any of this shit at all so the only thing I think it can be is I use this kind of wifi setup and I've got a ubiquity router that's on my fiver and the only thing it can be is that, the good news is I've actually got a spare one from the UK open, I'm going to swap it out and hopefully that will fix it but it's been in fury and the other thing is I haven't been here, I've been out You know what Stern would be saying to you right now? I know. It's pretty easy, Neil.
    96:28
    Network issues. There's some irony there, right? 100%. It's not that it's hard. I just haven't had any freaking time to debug it. It's like, do I play pinball or debug a network issue? I'm going to play pinball, right? At least you get to play it. All I get to do is fix them at the moment. Speaking of, I will say, quick update, my Cyberpunk. Oh, yes, Cyberpunk. panels there sat by me i've finished the cabinet i've finished the playfield uh metal work and i've finished the underneath harnesses so i'm at a point where coals as in uh people know maybe on the forum is collie wobbles he's got a job for me on some custom plastics i've got laser etched custom plastics heading my way hopefully arrive tomorrow um they look phenomenal i'm really happy about the result on those. Once I've got the ramps back from Australia, because I've got some custom ramps that have got to make their way across the pond, so to speak, I should be in a position hopefully, maybe just before Christmas, I'll have a finished game.
    97:35
    Well, that would be an awesome thing to have for Christmas, man. I'm going to test the war and send it some videos to CD Projekt Red, who make the Cyberpunk game, because they're based in Poland, right? And I know Poland's got somewhat of a pinball following. so hopefully they'll be like okay it's pinball rather than going what the hell is pinball rather than phoning their lawyer and saying cease and desist release the monkeys I preface all of this by saying I'm not selling it I think you'll be fine assuming they understand what it is the thing I'd love to see is get it over to one of the big shows I absolutely intend to if you'll have it I'll probably bring it to you yeah yeah absolutely and take it to pin fest but it'd be great like you know pinball expo in in texas i've got this massive kind of home brew section that would just be great to see it in that but you know i wouldn't it you know it's chip a pinball over your tongue you won't get changed for my grand so you know it's not it's not plus the risk of it getting damaged um yeah the powder coat cost me a ton I won't go on it too long we've overrun a little bit suffice to say it was a triple coat when I went to the powder coat it was a little bit like I can't do your normal rate this took way too long honestly it looks so good I'm glad that my wife pushed me to do it good I'm looking forward to seeing it and actually I need to talk to you because I'm getting more and more convinced to get my medieval madness redone I'll have it, I'll borrow it for a bit I'll make it look good, don't worry about that does the M I would get it done but it's got the Williams games, they're all stuck down they do there are techniques you can do to try and safely remove the rails without one warping them and two, damaging what's underneath because you often use 3M double sided tape and that's really strong Ruthful stuff, I know they use it Right, okay Luke, I think we're done For this episode And Scott, it's been a pleasure As always We will get The Christmas date out soon And Luke, everyone enjoy pinball And You know, I remind people I think we are in the goldenest of golden Eras of pinball, so make sure you're enjoying it And as I said If there's any games here you want to play or you've got any questions for us, get in touch for our Facebook group and, you know, come to Pinball Republic.
    100:25
    I'd say visit Scott's house, but I think his wife would gun me down for that. And remember, you don't need precision flippers. by every mod except provision of flippers no okay on that solemn note we will bid you farewell and we'll see you in December have a nice one goodbye from me goodbye