Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

We Are Pinball #19 "Let's talk D&D!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 10m·analyzed·Jan 5, 2025
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

WAP celebrates D&D pinball design, art, voice talent, and defends nerdy themes.

Summary

We Are Pinball hosts Don and Genghis celebrate the announcement of Stern's Dungeons & Dragons pinball machine, discussing Brian Eddy's design legacy, the game's art direction by Vincent Prost, celebrity voice talent (Michael Dorn, Kevin Smith, Brendan Small), and character progression mechanics coded by Dwight Sullivan. They address criticism of the D&D theme as "nerdy" and contextualize pinball's nerd culture within the broader gaming community.

Key Claims

  • Brian Eddy coded software for Black Rose in 1992 before designing The Shadow in 1994

    medium confidence · Genghis discussing Eddy's historical work: 'I remember back in 1992 brian eddie he actually did the software for for one of my favorite games that was called black rose'

  • Attack from Mars only sold about 3,000 units due to arcade decline in 1995

    medium confidence · Genghis: 'They only sold about 3,000 Attack from Mars' during arcade industry collapse

  • Medieval Madness also sold approximately 3,000 games despite being a smash hit

    medium confidence · Genghis: 'Medieval Madness...sold like 3 000 games' in 1997

  • D&D Limited Edition production is 740 units, derived from 1974 Wisconsin D&D founding date (7-4 becomes 7-40)

    high confidence · Don: '740, and they were saying it's because Dungeons & Dragons started here in Wisconsin in 1974. So they took that 7-4 and did 7-40'

  • Vincent Prost, the D&D pinball artist, previously did artwork for D&D and Magic: The Gathering

    high confidence · Don: 'Vincent Prose...this guy did a lot of art for D&D and Magic the Gathering and stuff. He's the real deal, man.'

  • Michael Dorn (Worf from Star Trek: TNG) provides dragon voice call-outs for the game

    high confidence · Don: 'Michael Dorn, right? Worf from Star Trek The Next Generation...He's got a nice draggy voice.'

  • Kevin Smith provides goblin warrior call-outs in D&D pinball

    high confidence · Don: 'Kevin Smith, man...He's on there as some kind of goblin warrior'

  • Dwight Sullivan coded the D&D game and previously coded Terminator 2 (1991)

    high confidence · Don: 'Was it Dwight? Same guy that coded this game...Dwight Sullivan...One of the coolest games he has designed, not designed, coded for is 1991 Terminator 2.'

  • Metallica LE production was reduced to 500 units

Notable Quotes

  • “I love stern i love new game launch day from stern it's just it did it they're just so magical”

    Don @ ~00:02:00 — Expresses enthusiasm for Stern's new release cadence and game announcement strategy

  • “this is a return to that...Remember when you walked up and you saw that old Data Easter Sega Godzilla game...You walk up here and it's like, the first thing you're going to see is that dragon. There's a dragon right there.”

    Don @ ~00:15:00 — Describes D&D's immediate visual appeal and throwback to arcade walk-up gameplay design

  • “I am so tired of Marvel games...it's so cool to have something different”

    Don @ ~00:16:00 — Critiques recent Stern lineup dominance of Marvel IP and celebrates D&D's thematic diversity

  • “Come here, tasty traveler. I'm proud to fight alongside you. We're being attacked by a gelatinous cube.”

    Dragon character (voice clip) @ ~00:20:00 — Demonstrates in-game call-out quality and D&D lore integration

  • “I mean, it's Jay and Silent Bob. It's Silent Bob. And I'm sorry. He's on there as some kind of goblin warrior, but I'm just going to hear Silent Bob whenever he's doing a call-out.”

    Don @ ~00:22:00 — Humorously notes Kevin Smith's typecasting despite character role

  • “this is a theme for freaking nerds bro...the dude had a pokeball sitting on his desk behind him and i'm like how are you gonna have pokemon stuff in your house and talk about dungeons and dragons guys are nerds”

    Don @ ~00:30:00 — Satirizes hypocrisy of critics dismissing D&D while engaging with other nerd culture

  • “when a game comes out the first thing I'm looking at is the pro good enough...I hope this is just kind of a test to make sure you know this is all gets fleshed out and then they can build on this in the future”

    Genghis @ ~00:55:00 — Emphasizes Pro tier value and expresses optimism about progression mechanics as foundation

Entities

Dungeons & DragonsgameBrian EddypersonDwight SullivanpersonVincent ProstpersonGeorge GomezpersonMichael DornpersonKevin Smithperson

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong pushback against online critics calling D&D pinball 'for nerds'; hosts frame nerd culture positively and highlight pinball's inherent geek identity

    high · Genghis personal D&D origin story; Don: 'we we we are nerds we love this...this is perfect for pinball...Come on. Can you imagine, Donnie?'

  • ?

    community_signal: WAP planning 'Patreon Special' post-episode discussing 2025 pinball roadmap with 'industry people [who] kind of let slip' upcoming announcements

    high · Don: 'after this show let's do a let's do a uh patron special yeah let's talk about our 2025 predictions with all the games you know about with all the games i know about...this is stuff like industry people kind of let slip'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: D&D character progression system (four starter characters + three unlockables) modeled on Venom's leveling mechanics; represents video game-style progression integration in pinball rules

    high · Genghis: 'The best part about Venom was that leveling system...the first time that pinball felt like...playing a video game and playing real progression...And I saw that and I'm like I hope this is just kind of a test'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Genghis notes Eddy's historical design consistency (orbit-left ramp-right ramp-bash toy template) and celebrates D&D's departure as evolution rather than constraint

    medium · Discussion of Shadow, Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness formula; Don notes D&D 'has got three flippers, first of all. Three flippers. So anyone that says this is a fan layout...this is not fan layout'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Brian Eddy moves away from signature 'fan layout' (orbit/left ramp/right ramp/bash toy) toward more complex three-flipper design with dragon toy centerpiece

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.211

0:00
Daddy man, I have missed you. It's good to have you back here. So, should we talk about this Dungeons & Dragons? I mean, yeah. Did you see that freaking trailer and everything yesterday? Man, I'm like hype on this game. And yeah, I can't wait to get into it. Shall we go? Yeah, hey game man, give out the intro music! Welcome, citizens of the realm of We Are Pinball. Gather around the castle, scrape off that cholera, because it's time to celebrate the new pinball. We're getting medieval on this. Not in the Pulp Fiction way, although perhaps some people deserve that. No, we're going to talk about this awesome theme for pinball that completely works. and if you guys don't think you're nerds and you play pinball go check yourself man it's what what are we episode 17 i think it's 19 man oh my god i feel like we've been doing this like years now man what's going on how you doing over there in denmark man oh man i'm freezing my ass off it's minus two degrees i don't know how many that is in the u.s measurement but it's it's freezing cold in Denmark. It's snowing. It's beautiful.
1:16
And it's New Game Day. What's better than a new pinball day from Stern? This is beautiful. New year. New game. New attitude. New checkbook. New wallet.
1:28
New supporters on Patreon. Oh, yes. Let's shout out our homies. Oh, yeah. We need to shout them out, man, because we have amazing homies. Of course, we have to start with our executive producers. Thank you. the real velvet steve what up steve yeah let me do it again there you go steve for you for you sir the real velvet man we love steve he's our um yeah executive producer at the 100 level what a guy can you believe it can you believe it blessed it's awesome steve just got his uh spooky tcm and he is loving the game when is he going to get his hundred dollar support mod donnie i love that freaking game soon yeah so um yeah he's gonna he's gonna get himself a retro ralph strapped to a freaking desk man oh yeah yeah and we love him for supporting this channel love it and after he has played some uh some games on his tcm we're gonna welcome him on on the show yeah can't wait it's gonna be cool man what a guy yeah the next supporter we have got is a producer level Jeremy Ford.

high confidence · Don: 'just like Metallica down to 500'

  • D&D pinball features four starter characters with unlock system for three additional characters

    high confidence · Genghis: 'this game, you can start with four characters. You can level them up. You can unlock three more characters.'

    • “this guy is magical. The best part about Venom was that leveling system and, like, the unlocks in there. And, like, the first time that pinball felt like, you know, playing a video game and playing real progression.”

    Genghis @ ~00:54:00 — Praises Dwight Sullivan's integration of video game progression mechanics into pinball

    Brendan Small
    person
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Chris Franchiperson
    Enzoperson
    Donperson
    Genghisperson
    Jeremy Fordperson
    Velvet Steveperson
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Attack from Marsgame
    The Shadowgame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Black Rosegame
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Metallicagame
    Jaws 50th Anniversarygame
    We Are Pinballorganization

    high · Don discusses design evolution: 'this is not fan layout...three flippers. So anyone that says this is a fan layout, what I do and do know anything about pinball, this is not fan layout'

  • ?

    event_signal: Stern Pinball announces D&D: The Tyrant's Eye with official trailer and full voice talent reveal

    high · Multiple references to trailer reveal 'yesterday' and announcement of Michael Dorn, Kevin Smith, Brendan Small, Critical Role talent

  • $

    market_signal: Hosts defend D&D pinball against criticism dismissing theme as 'for nerds'; broader community concern about negative YouTube influencer visibility affecting new player acquisition

    medium · Don: 'Can you imagine your name is Jimmy...And because of this guy makes YouTube videos, he's the first guy that jumps up...he hears, do not buy Stern'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern hires theme-specific artist (Vincent Prost from D&D/MTG background) rather than relying on internal art team (Zombie Yeti/Chris Franchi)

    high · Don: 'this inside guy that made Dungeons Dragons artwork they hire him to do this...Stern hires him and makes him...I love that they they took an insider guy'

  • ?

    community_signal: Theme-specific artist integration: Stern brings in Vincent Prost (D&D/MTG specialist) similar to hiring dedicated Metallica artist for remaster, suggesting shift toward external specialist talent for major licenses

    medium · Don: 'Stern, way to go...I don't know that this Vincent Prost guy needs to do pinball art on every game going forward, but for this one, it totally makes sense'

  • ?

    product_strategy: D&D LE features foil-effect artwork, glitter in back glass lettering, and exclusive cosmetic elements; Pro/Premium variants receive different art treatments

    high · Don describes foil shimmer effects and glitter back glass; notes LE art features 'whole party together' vs other variants

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern reducing D&D LE production to 740 units (below typical 1,000 LE runs); positioning scarcity as collector value after recent LE demand issues

    high · Don: '740...Metallica down to 500. They can either take the prices down or reduce the numbers, right?'

    • 2:39
    This guy's an absolute legend. Yeah, man. I hung out with this guy. So cool. Yeah. Our Mustang guy. Yeah. Thanks for the support, dude. Thanks for the support. It's so cool. But on top of everything, Donnie, do you know what has happened? What happened? At 80 Australian dollars. What? We have got a brand new producer-level supporter, Enzo!
    3:09
    He gets a triple shout-out. Enzo, dude, my homie. I was just there. He made me pizza. He let me play Star Trek. Steve Ritchie's game is amazing. Enzo, you're a freaking legend, mate. Oh, my God. Enzo Lepegna. I love this. I love this Italiano. Oh, did you get homemade real Italiano pizza? Yeah, this dude. No, dude, he catered, man. He had a little Giuseppe's come across the pond, and we're baking Napolitano pizzas in the backyard, poolside, summertime, Australia. What could be better?
    3:42
    I have a name for Enzo La Pegna. Yeah. Enzo Ferrari. I love it. All right, so we got a Mustang. We got a Ferrari. We got Velvet Steve. Yeah. What more do you need? Enzo Ferrari, welcome to the show, buddy. Now, Enzo is a friend of the show. He was actually our first guest on episode 10. Absolutely, yeah. It was marvelous to have him over. What a great guy. What a great guy to support us. Another $50. That's like 10 new Patreon supporters at one time, man. Yeah. Isn't it? I mean, Donnie, it's crazy with all the support and love we're getting. We're thankful. We're happy. and i think after this show let's do a let's do a uh patron special yeah let's talk about our 2025 predictions with all the games you know about with all the games i know about with all these different companies let's talk about all the upcoming games in 2025 i'm gonna call it rumor plus because yeah i i mean this isn't just you know stuff that's going around pin side like this is stuff like industry people kind of let slip and i've picked up on so let's forecast how we think this 2025 is gonna go because if the last week is any indication it's gonna be completely explosive yeah it's gonna be awesome man yeah so after the show come on hang with us and on patreon for sure it's a late night show yeah we're gonna have some fun but yes on this episode episode number 19 i think it is yeah man we're going to talk about the newest game from stern the dungeons sun dragon come here tasty traveler god man i've i can't wait to talk about this game some more i got some opinions for sure i mean they did it again donnie they did it again i love stern i love new game launch day from stern it's just it did it they're just so magical and this game yeah this game is designed by brian eddie does everybody know who brian eddie is what he stands for. How good do you know Brian Eddy? Yeah, so I'm more familiar, well, I guess there's two Brian Eddies that I know, right? Of course, the medieval madness Brian Eddy, the attack from Mars Brian Eddy, and then contemporary Eddy, right? Which has been, honestly, a little bit hit and miss, right? Mandalorian, I'm looking at you. But then Stranger Things, I'm looking at you. But then Venom, I'm looking at you. And it's like, which way are we going here, buddy? And then finally, this is like a return to form, like, I dig this. And it's probably credit to the team as well and and the dwight code is it's like 50 50 with layout and code here man but you know that's my that's my experience with him i know this is a dude from shadow back in the day right what else has he done i mean i mean ah brian eddie this guy he is a legend donnie he's a legend he goes back all the years i mean i have been in this industry for many years i remember back in 1992 brian eddie he actually did the software for for one of my favorite games that was called black rose then he was a software guy and that software on that game what a go man so cool two years later as you mentioned he designed his first game the shadow 1994 the shadow was a cheap game nobody wanted it it was every time i saw one shadow for sale i picked it up it had so low plays no scratches no destroyed inserts no nothing they always look beautiful except the magnet that was that had a design flaw so every time it grabbed the ball it destroyed the wood oh no it had very very clunky rams that it had diverters on the rams that were just so clunky the left ram was so close to the flippers and what a clunky feeling game but that game that game had awesome orbit shot. Yes. And when you shoot the orbit from the left side, it feeded the ball to the upper right flipper. And that upper right flipper could loop that ball in so smoothly way that it was just so beautiful. Where else have I seen that? Oh, Stranger Things. That's right. Yeah. Left orbit to the ramp. Yeah, I love it. The year after, 1995, everything got upgraded to WPC-95 at Bella Williams. And Brian Eddy, he designed a game called Attack from Mars. Wow. This is the definition of fan layout. Yeah. Orbit, left ram, right ram, bash toy in the middle. That's it. Great game, but 9 to 5, Don was at his home sitting and playing on his PlayStation 1. Yes. He was using his 56K modem. Oh, man. He didn't use the arcades anymore. He was just sitting at home, home entertainment, DCS audio system, watched Star Wars movies in home, and the arcades died. They only sold about 3,000 Attack from Mars. And it was just these pinball companies, they were dying. Gottlieb died. Capcom died. Sega was struggling. And they said, come on, man, we need something cool. Come on, Brian Eddy, do something cool. Two years later, Brian Eddy came with a smash hit, Medieval Madness. Oh, yeah. And do you know what it had? It had an orbit, left ramp, right ramp, and a Bastion in the middle. And a catapult and a disintegrating castle and a dragon ramp and Tina Fey and Second City doing call-outs. Awesome with Tina Fey. This guy, this guy is one of the homies. He likes dragons. He likes Dungeons and Dragons. You know this 30 years back. but unfortunately it was in 97 and it also sold like 3 000 games and you know bella williams also died in 1999 and after that this guy didn't really do so he was in the gaming industry but we didn't hear from him until until mr george gomez contacted brian eddie and said bro you need to come and join stern and design some games it was a time of turmoil yeah in the kingdom.
    10:03
    I'm going to go medieval on your ass, he said. And then he joined! Oh! Yeah, at Stern, what game did he make? No idea.
    10:14
    He just said Stranger Things. No, oh yeah, Stranger Things was before Mandalorian, yeah. Mandalorian was the other one. So that was his return to form then. See, I'm not up to all the lore, you know, by date and everything. I love that he took his former designs with an orbit left hand right ramp and a best try in the middle and he got one of the greatest themes in the history of pinball stranger things oh my god i got it behind me yeah yeah yeah you and you still got it behind yeah i love that game when it came when it came out very luke welcome people didn't want it people didn't like it but the code got updated what a game today everybody loves stranger of things the thing is this guy is old school when you look at that play feel on stranger things it has got inserts everywhere i love it i love it yeah inserts everywhere everywhere usually all the you know all the modes everything is on the new modern displays but this guy is old school he took it belly william style and i love it we're gonna talk about inserts in a minute so after that he came with the mandalorian what an amazing theme i mean star wars mandalorian do people like the game no but it is what it is yeah yeah why am i telling you this it's because people have been talking about this guy brian eddie he can only make two flipper games he can only make fan layouts just orbit left ramp right ramp and a basher in the middle but what did brian eddie delivered this time, Donnie. No fan layout. Nothing like that.
    11:57
    Yeah, you know, kept the bottom third, you know, the Brian Eddy third. They added some accoutrement here, the little ball drain shield that's player activated. Nice open area. Reminds me of Stranger Things a bit, but it's not as cluttered with the inserts as I'm looking at it. You got that nice map feature so there's inserts, but they're tiny and they kind of follow the map. It's not just like vomited inserts everywhere. But, yeah, not quite a fan.
    12:24
    And there are a ton of shots, upper flipper, gelatinous cube. I love this game. Yeah. I mean, it's different. It has got three flippers, first of all. Three flippers. So anyone that says this is a fan layout, what I do and do know anything about pinball, this is not fan layout. You know what this reminds me of? Like, this is great. This is kind of like the old school general public capture your attention pinball. I think it's a return to that. Remember when you walked up and you saw that old Data Easter Sega Godzilla game and there was a big Godzilla head that was there? Or the Data East Jurassic Park and you walk up to it and it's like, there's a big plastic dinosaur. It does something. You walk up here and it's like, the first thing you're going to see is that dragon. There's a dragon right there. It's like, oh, this is some kind of dragon game. Let's jump on it, right? You may not know a ton about a pinball. You're just walking up and down the line. But it's got those things that are going to draw your attention in there. Blue glowing cube, giant dragon. Okay, I get it. I'm going to shoot stuff at the dragon. Let's go. It's a dragon game. Love it. I mean, look at the art. When people look at this game at a location, the dragon, red with flaming flames bursting out of his mouth. So it's got fire on the left side. On the right side, it's blue, purplish with that ice cube that's blue. and in the middle it has got the map, Dungeons & Dragons map system, just like in Jurassic Park. And the middle of the play field, it has got that eye of the beholder. I'm loving the artwork. How beautiful. How fresh is this? I am so tired of Marvel games. I'm so tired of Marvel games. You know what's fun about this? One of my favorite artwork designer is, what's his name?
    14:11
    What's his name, man? The art guy at Stern. Zombie Eddie? I love his art, but I have got a bit fatigued because if you take the last five games, it's zombied all the way. So it's so cool to have something different. This art, it's so cool. I love it. How do you feel about the art? Yeah, you know where this would be right at home? You could put this right next to a Stern Pirates of the Caribbean, and it would look like it matches, like it belongs, right? There's the map down there. There's a mechanism thing kind of in the same region as where that ship was. It looks like a throwback to that era, like the recent past of Stern. Do you know who coded that game? I don't.
    14:52
    Was it Dwight? Same guy that coded this game. Oh, it was. All right. Dwight? Yeah, it was Dwight Sullivan. And the coder Dwight Sullivan is also a legend in this industry. He also goes back all the way. One of the coolest games he has designed, not designed, coded for is 1991 Terminator 2. I love that game. Okay, good game.
    15:17
    Yeah, yeah. He goes so long back. I mean, so us old people that has been doing this for like 20 years, we love this team up. It's so cool. But this game, Donnie. So, pro premium LE. The artwork. Let's start with the artwork. Sure. I think the artwork is new, different, awesome, and fresh, but still keeps it in the Dungeon and Dragon galore thing, don't you think? Yeah, so the artist here, Vincent Prose, which I learned today. I also learned today that this guy did a lot of art for D&D and Magic the Gathering and stuff. He's the real deal, man. The real deal. Yeah, so I love that this is just kind of a departure. If you've got 10 games in your lineup, this one's going to look different than everything else.
    16:08
    It's got a lot of throwback to it. It reminds me of games like Stearns Pirates of the Caribbean and things. So I dig it, man. I dig that the pros probably got the best art on it.
    16:20
    You know what? The pro art is beautiful. The thing is, the more I look at that foil effect the Illies have, in real deal, Look at that foil. Yeah. I know. How many LEs do you have right now? You have a lot of premiums. Two, three technically if you count WWE.
    16:41
    Oh, that doesn't have the foil. No, no. You have John Wiggly. That artwork is magical. I love John Wiggard. No, that looks good. Like I love the foil shimmer effect that's in there.
    16:54
    It's on X-Men too. I've got the X-Men LE. Does that have foil effect? I don't remember. Yeah, it's got foil effect on the cabinet and the art blades. so that's kind of cool oh nice i mean the ellie i love that foil the more i look at it i enjoyed but i wish that was just the standard i mean come on it can't cost that much more to print on foil just make every stern game look amazing come on i mean they do like i i like this is different you know what to be honest i love that they they took an insider guy that do dungeon dragons artwork they hire him to do this Just like two months ago they took this inside guy that made Metallica artwork Yeah. And Stern hires him and makes him, you know, Metallica remastered. I love this. I mean, Stern, way to go. This is awesome. I mean, you know, Chris Franchi and Zombie Yeti can't do every single pinball release, right? And so if you have an artist that comes from the region of the theme, right, that's used to this lore, I think that just makes sense. And so, yeah, I don't know that this Vincent Prost guy needs to do pinball art on every game going forward, but for this one, it totally makes sense. It fits. It feels organic. It doesn't feel forced.
    18:14
    I'm sure if Zombie Yeti got this, he will make beautiful art with vibrant colors, everything. Who doesn't love his art? Okay, Zombie Yeti, we all love it, but it's so cool. So actually, when we got Jaws about this time last year, Michael Bernard, what a great guy. I'm friends with him. Yeah, I mean, people at the beginning, people didn't really like his art. It was different. But the more you look at that cabinet, that shark that I don't like the shark, but his artwork is so good.
    18:51
    Seriously, Jaws art is great. I'm loving it, man. And it deserves much better recognition than it got in the beginning. So, yeah, fresh, fresh new ideas. I dig it. Yeah. So the art, if I should choose one, I would go with the LE. I don't know if it's because of the trim on the fire trim and everything. I love the LE artwork. Red is awesome. I mean, the LE is going to look great. You know, it's just if I'm judging it just on the content of the art itself, I kind of like the idea of, like, the whole party together. and then you got that Gimli-looking guy on the back box sides.
    19:30
    Also on the back box, they have mirrored, but they also have glitter in it. Have you seen that? Yeah, I saw that with Elvira's Blood Red Kiss. They did have the glitter on the red lettering. So I'm assuming this is going to be similar. And that's a cool effect. If you get yourself an LE, that's really one of the draws. the art's going to look amazing, and that's something that I can't easily replicate.
    19:55
    Even a mirrored back glass, if you can find it, but still, you know, $400 plus to get that. So, you know, that's some big digital value. How many of these are out there?
    20:04
    740, and they were saying it's because Dungeons & Dragons started here in Wisconsin in 1974. So they took that 7-4 and did 7-40, a bit of a stretch, but I like the fact that the limiteds are more limited than just 1,000. Yeah, for sure. We don't care about the backstory. They can say whatever they want to say. We are only happy that the numbers are getting reduced. I mean, just like Metallica down to 500. They can either take the prices down or reduce the numbers, right? Yeah, and either way, if they bake in value, that's really what's going to set these apart. Yeah, it would have been nice if this came with the shooter rod as well and the LE. Jaws came with that. I thought the LE would have that dice, that orange dice. Isn't that just obvious? Shouldn't it have it? I think it's probably coming, yeah. I'll probably throw together a translucent one for when I do eventually get this game.
    21:00
    True, true Dungeon & Dragon nerds are going to buy this game, and they're going to take these small Dungeon & Dragon figurines and just have them all the way on all the ramps. This is going to be modded everywhere. It's going to be awesome. Yeah, like imagine if you're a tabletop player, and you've got your painted pewter characters, and you can put your character in the game. Yeah, of course. Down at the slingshots. Awesome.
    21:24
    It's going to be much. I saw it had at the back left side, it had some flat plastic treasure or something, and that's probably going to be, you know, a 3D something treasure chest. Yeah, the tavern that you shoot into with the spinner will need something up there on top. It's just flat plastic on top with that sign. You know, so it's putting something over the captive ball, so there's kind of, you know, something back there that looks like a town or a scene or a building or something. I think that would work. This will be a fun game to add a little tasteful accoutrement to, I think. Absolutely, man. So, yeah, the looks of it, beautiful. Ten out of ten. I'm enjoying it. The next thing we're going to talk about is the audio package. I'm a huge audio guy, and the more I talk with Donnie, the more he jumps over to audio. Hey, Donnie, I'm so sorry, man. People are calling you Donnie after I started calling you Donnie. Does that irritate you? Because your name is Donald, and it was Don until we did this. Now everybody says Donnie. Donnie, come on. No, no, that's fine. Come on, everybody. It's kind of what I go by. Is it okay? Yeah, no, that's cool. It's cool. Good to get it, Sam. So the audio package, if you listen to that, it's human.
    22:39
    Yeah, if you listen to the six-minute clip, You can actually hear some of the in-game music, and the music is beautiful in the background. It's medieval. It's just the right tone. I'm loving it. But that's the one thing. The other thing is call-outs, Tony. Let's hear a call-out, man. Come here, tasty traveler. I'm proud to fight alongside you. We're being attacked by a gelatinous cube. I mean, I will never get tired of the gelatinous cube reference. Perfect. The dragon's talk is epic. Epic.com. I love that voice.
    23:14
    Yeah, dude. Michael Dorn, right? Worf from Star Trek The Next Generation. Yes, more Dorn is always going to be great. But, like, you know, and that was one of the leaks I had heard a day before the release was that Michael Dorn was, like, you know, doing voice call-outs. I'm like, okay, cool, yeah. He's got a nice draggy voice. But did you see everybody else that's doing call-outs for this game? Kevin Smith, man. Yeah, dude. Kevin, bro. I mean, it's Jay and Silent Bob. It's Silent Bob. And I'm sorry. He's on there as some kind of goblin warrior, but I'm just going to hear Silent Bob whenever he's doing a call-out. Oh, my God. I mean, one of the movies I watched as a teenager, it was, you know, Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back. Have you watched that? Yeah, I've seen everything, yeah. Actually, and, like, you know, the best part about John Wick is, like, the John Wick call-outs, you know, and that's what I'm waiting for is, like, more John Wick saying stuff. And so if this game comes loaded out with everybody that's in there, Kevin Smith doing a bunch of stuff. Dorn doing a bunch of stuff with his silky, gravelly voice. They got the dude from High Chemical Romance for some reason. They got Brendan Small, who's done work with Stern before. This is a dude that created and voices Metalocalypse. He plays metal guitar. He did home movies. Tons of voice acting. I'm a fan of that guy. Plus, there's these critical role people from the YouTubes that are doing stuff, too. There'll be a whole cast of characters in here. I dig that. It's so cool, man. But I cannot concentrate now. I'm only thinking about that movie now, Jay and Salabob. At the end credits, they had this Because I Got High song. Do you remember that one? Because I got high. I was going to clean up my room. Then I got high.
    24:58
    I was going to do my book report. But then I got high. I was going to eat her pussy too. Then I got high. now I'm jacking up and I know why because I got high I could have cheated and I could have passed I mean I want a lot of Kevin Smith call outs that's for sure so do you think that the license was cheaper than usual. Do you think the license was cheaper than usual so they could afford a lot of, you know, call-out price? Probably. And, you know, like, honestly, when it comes to things like Venom, I would have liked to see the movie assets, not the comic book. Obviously, that's a cheaper way out. Deadpool, for sure, same. Avengers, yes, needed the movie stuff in there. For this license, there is much more to draw from going to the books and the games and the lore there since 1974 than one of the recent film releases. For sure. Who cares about that? I mean, there are like 10 different Dungeons & Dragons films. None of them are not worth doing anything with. This is perfect. This is awesome. I love it. Also, if you have watched Stranger Things, they are playing Dungeons & Dragons. It's so cool, man. Yeah. Now, okay, let me talk to that for just a second. I'll look up some Afro Man for later. so this is weird so this theme was revealed and teased and then there's some people out there that are like this is a theme for freaking nerds bro like game looks great but the theme is not for me what are you even talking about sir I watched a YouTube video with a guy doing a reaction talking about how Dungeons and Dragons nerds I used to beat them up the dude had a pokeball sitting on his desk behind him and i'm like how are you gonna have pokemon stuff in your house and talk about dungeons and dragons guys are nerds get out of here man go get stuffed um i mean this is a pinball guy we we we are nerds we love this this is a fantasy game with freaking dragons and stuff to battle in it and the freaking gelatinous cube come on come on this is perfect for pinball one of the greatest games of all time medieval madness this is like the spiritual successor to that yeah come This is awesome. This is for nerds. I'm going to go play Funhaus. That's a game that's not for nerds.
    27:37
    I'm going to play Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, and I'm going to get the jackpot. I'm going to go to the upper play field with no flippers. That's a man's game. This one's for stupid nerds. Get stuffed sideways. Where is this coming from? Get fucked.
    27:54
    Come on. Can you imagine, Donnie? I know exactly who you're talking about. Can you imagine your name is Jimmy, and you just discovered pinball, and you're like 40 years old. You have some money. You want to buy some games. You go into Google, and you write pinball. And because of this guy makes YouTube videos, he's the first guy that jumps up, and Jimmy watches this, and he hears, do not buy Stern. Do not buy new game. you will lose $5,000 in an instant. Do not buy. Wait and try and buy. Don't buy. Pinball sucks. Don't buy. This is for nerds. Don't buy. I mean, that's not good. The pinball industry needs to do something so they come up as the first Google search. Yeah, like I don't see it as a zero-sum game, right, where like Stern can only benefit if we're losing or we only benefit when Stern loses. I think, you know, if they're making the right choices, putting out games that have value, have replay value, and are fun to own, then we benefit, and they benefit because we'll stay customers of them. And we can have this kind of reciprocal, mutual beneficial relationship here. You know, so it's not like, you know, every game that comes out, we've got to crap all over it and then try to get a bargain basement one. I mean, we need these games to sell at least to locations. you know there's a ton of people that are more into pinball than i am more knowledgeable and more skillful than i am that don't even don't have a game at home you know and they're location players and so you know yeah you want to get the word out so our local arcade operators can see one of these put it in there and then you know we don't all have access to it dollar a play and go nuts man like come on yeah for nerds for nerds man you guys are at the arcade i'm cruising women online and stocking up. Like, come on. It's just stupid.
    29:51
    I can't help. Your fantasy game. No, pinball needs to be reality-based. I only play Harley Davidson. That's a man's game.
    30:03
    And then they'll turn around and talk crap about John Wick, you know. Everything's for nerds. I mean, okay, okay. Dungeon Dragons.
    30:13
    You know what, Donnie? I remember when I was 13, I was one of those cool kids. Yeah, I was not a bully, but I never got bullied. I was with the cool kids. Okay, so one day, our teacher, she made a group of four, and we should go home to one of the kids and make our homework, blah, blah, blah. So I went home. I got in a group with three nerdy kids from my class, and I never talked with this group. So I went home to them. I was this cool kid, you know. I had a moped. They had their BMX bikes. So I was 13 years old, took home to them for the first time, 13.
    30:51
    It was such an awesome experience for me. I saw their computers, their Amigas, their Nintendos, their Segas. I jumped into that world from that day on. After we made everything, he took out some papers and, do you want to join us on a game of Dungeons and Dragons? And I was like, what's that? And, you know, we should sit on the floor, and he was the game master, and two guys on my side, and we had something, you know, big board game something, and he started, which character do you want? I was like, character, what's that? Yeah, you could choose this or a mini tower, and I was like, what's a mini tower?
    31:31
    Yeah, I didn't know. It's this giant cow thingy, and it has a lot of strength, so I played a mini tower. We played Dungeons & Dragons for about two, three hours, and we ended up in an arena. I was fighting with this guy, and I damaged him a lot, and you should use some dices. And this guy fell on his knees, and he was just about to die. And the game master, he said, so, Genghis, what do you want to do? He's just about to fall down, and he has one hit point left. And I was like, I just want to push him with my feet. I was going to kick him. I don't want to cut his head off. And then when the game was over, we ordered pizzas, and then they talked about how the game was. It was so cool. You let him live. You didn't chop his head off. You are this kind of guy. You can visit again. You can play the cleric. You can play the healer. You have this immersive big world with different rule sets. You have Generation 1, Generation 2, Generation 3, Dungeons & Dragons, and it's so deep. And this game, you can start with four characters. You can level them up. You can unlock three more characters. And this is all programmed by Dwight Sullivan, which is a game master in himself. You know, this guy is magical. The best part about Venom was that leveling system and, like, the unlocks in there. And, like, the first time that pinball felt like, you know, playing a video game and playing real progression. and I saw that and I'm like I hope this is just kind of a test to make sure you know this is all gets fleshed out and then they can build on this in the future and like that's kind of what I'm most excited about with this game I think when a game comes out the first thing I'm looking at is the pro good enough we're going to talk about that in a second okay the pro good enough that's the first thing the second thing how will this game do in a location because half of these games comes to Europe. Just like back in the Bella Williams games, half of them comes to Europe. You can say, you know, there are some people, uncultured people, they're like, hey, USA, number one. But, you know how they are, you know. You travel the world, you know how it is, okay, but there are some people that think the whole world is the US, you know. So, half of them comes over here. So, I'm thinking, how will this game do in a location? Donnie, so, people that has got insider connected they will be drawn to locations to upgrade their characters and while you're in a game you can actually start with the second character this is so deep again unlock more characters but also every Sunday you have this little magic shoot down the tunnel so you can just like on a map go to the left, go to the right, you know, game mode. All of that resets every Sunday.
    34:32
    And it will draw people to the arcades. I think this is so cool game for the arcade. And what a good idea to, you know, have the game save your progress too so that you can put another dollar and start again. And then when you get to that video mode, you're picking up where you left off. You know, like it's what you want to do. Give someone a reason to replay the damn game on location. and guys Stern if you're listening do this it's cool with every Sunday I love it but just once a month please for us location owners just once a month do a super time kill this mini monster mode so you can get something extra on Sunday evening or something, something cool. Oh, yeah, like right before the dungeon's done, there's like something new that's in there or a limited time thing. Yeah, I mean, all that is clearly possible. exactly just do something that will draw people to go to you know electric bat arcade just people just jumping in there kel turn on this game there there's this extra game mode it's only on for four minutes or whatever i need to beat this giant get something extra unlock something cool we need some updates like that that could be awesome so this game will absolutely work for Look, and who doesn't know about Dungeons & Dragons? If you don't know anything about Dungeons & Dragons, just look at this play field. Look at that dragon's head. Yeah, see the giant dragon? Yeah, there you go. Yeah. You want to kick its ass? You want to bash that dragon, right? Yeah, and you're going to see the cube, and then when you do hit that ramp and the magnet grabs it, you're going to be like, oh, wait, what's going on? And then it sounds like there will be a mode where the magnet grabs inside the cube, and then it ejects another ball that you can use to chase it and save your ball from the cube. And then that will probably start like a two-ball multi-ball. That's fun. That's so cool. That's so fun. And, like, you won't realize that just walking up to it, but as you're playing it will happen. And you'll be like, oh, neat. This is cool. You know, so this is fun, man. Pinball should be fun. This is one of my favorite games. If you take an old game like Deadpool, you have those three drop-down targets at the front. You shoot in there. It takes your ball, locks the drop-down targets, and then you get a second ball, shoot the drop-down targets down, and it will release the ball that was locked. I love stuff. This is exactly, it will lock the ball up at the cube, and you get a second ball to hit it, and it will release. And it looks like it has got a magnet that works on the ramp, but also under the ramp. Yeah. The dual grappling effect. Yes, that's right. So that will allow the bottom magnet to stop a ball above that upper flipper and then drop it to the flipper in a more controlled manner. I dig that. You know, almost like on Jaws or something where you can just drop the ball there. But, yeah, anytime a ball is on a magnet and it gives you another one, you can try to smash that ball off of it. Munsters does that.
    37:31
    Guns and Roses, no. Metallica does it. Texas Chainsaw Massacre does it. And it's fun every time. And when you get it, you get the hurry-up points, and then you get a multi-ball that starts after it. Like, that's fun. Yeah, physical ball luck. It's awesome, man. So shots on layout. Yeah, buddy. What do you think about it? Is this a fan layout? uh no no i mean third flipper that loop now people calling this for a fan layout are ludicrous this is not a family i don't think a game is released in the last three years that people didn't call a fan layout um some people should start buying playing pinball machines instead of just talking about them just saying just saying you know but it looks like stranger thing ish it just says There's a couple more shots up the middle than just that one, you know, full down ram. You know, the Dragons offset big front to the left, you know, but it's not right in the middle. Like, you know, like Tank Force where it's going to send the ball directly down the middle. I dig that. The freaking Dragon spits three fireballs. That's awesome. So cool. Yeah, the shot straight up the middle. We can talk about that a little bit. The only place there's a spinner is up the middle. I wish there was a spinner on the left orbit entering that mountain. I think that would have been fun. you know do you rip that and then like hear the sounds and everything because you're going to rip into this vuck and the ball is just going to stop in there right so that's kind of not as satisfying um and then that dungeon pops up right in front of it and it looks like you know there's already like a vuck straight ahead so this is like another pop-up vuck that's kind of not a vuck but a scoop um yeah you know yeah the most important shot in any pinball machine is the middle shot and People that are new, they will double flip and shoot the middle shot. On this one, the middle shot has got a capture ball, some pins, and a spinner.
    39:30
    It's not the coolest middle shot. I mean, Jurassic Park had the spinner about the same location. Yeah, it's like farther up there and went into the pop bumper nest. This game does not have a pop bumper nest at all. No, no pops. But the middle shot is meh. Texas Chainsaw Middle Shot is awesome. This is not. I'm just saying. This reminds me of a remastered middle shot. It's awesome. It's got sparky magnets. It's so cool. But this one, Bastroy moved to the left. Now, this Bastroy has got three stand-up targets in front of it. It could be a dangerous shot because, as you can see, it's angled. If you shoot it with the left flipper, it will go up there, and the ball would drain out at the right out lane. So it could be so cool if they had drop-down targets up there. Yes, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, so what do they put, like, drop targets and then have a shot through into the dragon, or just, like, drop targets and then, like, a big paddle stand up behind it maybe?
    40:33
    Both could be awesome because this is dangerous. This reminds me of Star Wars. Oh, yeah, yeah. Again, coded by Dwight Sullivan. But it feels like if you hit those targets straight, you know, you will.
    40:50
    It is dangerous. But other than that, I love the way you're feeding the upper right flipper. I love that it has got loop shot. It has got a upper left ram shot you do with the upper right flipper.
    41:07
    So it has got awesome shots. Yeah, I like the diverter that's in that cave shot too. So when it's down, it'll go to the cube. And then when it's up, you can shoot underneath it, and it feeds into an orbit. I mean, stuff like that, I love it. What do you think about that if you talk about pro and premium LE? Yeah. What do you think about, yeah, the $1,000 question everybody's going to ask. Which one should I get? This game, this trailer got released like 20 hours ago, and people have been writing, RetroJingo, where is your shots and layout video? You always make it the first 10 minutes. I held back because I want to do this show with Donnie. We're trying to build this. We're pinball podcast up, and I want to put some more in this, but my YouTube video will come tomorrow or something. I got some thoughts. We can break down all three editions right now because I've been running through my head since the launch. We need to talk about people love the best bang for buck. So here's the thing. So there's usually about three things that are missing from the pro that are on the Premium LE, right? And this game, you know, seems like there's only two, the dragon and the pop-up dungeon. But I did find three here. It's just both of them are in the dragon. So, you know, the pop-up scoop for the dungeon, it's okay. Like, it seems kind of cool. It's an extra thing that moves on there. But, honestly, it's still a shot straight up the middle. And on the pro, you're not going to go into the dungeon by the pop-up dungeon. You're going to go in there by hitting that spinner shot into the buck. You know, the ball will stall in there. That's going to work. So that's, you know, kind of weak. Maybe, you know, three out of five stars, I guess. On the Dragon, Dragon does a couple of things. Now, the Dragon is fully sculpted on the Pro and the Premium LE. So I like that. They didn't just replace it with a flat plastic or something. So on the Pro, the Dragon looks like it's, you know, on some kind of coil actuator or something. It'll drop down to be a bash toy and then move up out of the way so you can hit the targets. So functional without a lot of flavor, right? But the articulations on the Premium LE, cool. Does change the gameplay a lot because if you think about it, with the head of the dragon just going up and down on the Pro, you're always going to have access to that left orbit and that right inner orbit shot. Whereas on the other one with him gesticulating to the left and right, he'll work as a diverter and be blocking those shots. You'll have to smash him out of the way, then he'll move and get access. So I think the Pro will probably play faster, kind of like on Godzilla, because part of the time you're going to have a dragon head in your way blocking shots on the Premium LE. So that's number two is the articulating, gesticulating dragon head. The other part, though, is there is a physical ball lock that's built into this guy. There's a diverter back there on that orbit that can knock balls down into, I don't know if it's a fast lock system or if it's a subway system or how they're doing it, But it looks like there's a rapid way to deliver those three balls, you know, for that multi-ball that comes.
    44:09
    So the fact that there's probably a fast lock system in there or some kind of quick buck system, that's like the third thing that I found. And if you want to count the diverter that's back there too that feeds it, that's kind of all in one mechanism as far as I'm thinking. The only other thing is, you know, there's eight balls in this game versus six in the pro. So there will be a chance for two extra balls and a giant multi-ball. and you're going to get that moment of the fireballs coming out of the dragon, which seems super cool. So there's your three things.
    44:39
    Value-wise, you're getting all the shots and all this awesome code on a pro, a location where you're trying to earn money. Pro is definitely the way to go. Even at home, if you just want to get this game in your house for the lowest price possible and grind through all this gameplay, I think the pro is a good option here. For me, I'm a sucker, so I would go premium, and then I would purchase the individual upgrades myself. Looking at the last few releases from Stern, the real thing, the real driving point of value towards an LE was cabinet expression lights. I think this game could have benefited from that. You know, you could have had reds illuminating the play field during dragon fire scenes. You could have had blues and greens for when the cube is going off or you're fighting like an ice monster. And those are now $700, and they come standard on the LE. So for $13,000, if you add in the cost of $700 for cabinet expression lights, $250 for the back box expression lights, $100 for the art blades, a shaker motor, that cool art and everything, there's more value there. Does the Pro have the inline cut for the expression lights? Do we know that? No, no, there's no expression lights. None of these have expression lights cut out for this game at all. Oh. At all. So that's a big miss. So that's a big jump in price for the LE, and you don't get like $700 lights included. And the LE has it behind the... The speaker lights. Yeah, the speaker expression system is in there. But how about inside the cabinet? Does it have it behind the artwork on the sides? Or is it just completely missing on the LE? Completely missing. Yeah, not there. Just like X-Men. That's a huge miss. I really... Dragon with fire yellow pulsing. I think that expression lights should be a standard feature on every Stern game. Now, I'm playing X-Men, right? And when you go to the future, the playfield GI turns blue because it's, you know, the future. But it's so dark. Even in my game room, it's hard to see where the hell the ball is right now with, like, just the blue GI. So if there were expression lights in there with, like, blues and greens illuminating the playfield, it would have been so helpful for something like X-Men. And I think, you know, just adding that extra sparkle on the playfield for a game like this, when you can have dragons and fire and you have magic spells going off and they can go dark at certain times and light up at certain times, I think that would have been helpful. I don't think they're just for music pins. This has been Don's TED Talk on Expression Lights. Why don't they do the cutout on all the cabinets? Yeah, just throw the cutout on there. You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but you have the option.
    47:13
    How much more can it cost, man? Come on. And sell these Expression Lights to people for like $700. They don't cost $700 to make, so Stern will make money and money. I mean, exactly, exactly. You know, and if you don't want to raise the price on the game, you know, they what they did on Metallica, they raised the price on the accessories and that's where they built in their extra margin. Now, I think the dragon here is probably pretty expensive because, you know, you're only making a couple thousand of these things. You're not making one hundred thousand. So economies of scale are not working in their favor. This thing's, you know, got some motion in it, had to have a lot of development in it. You know, I don't think it's a cheap thing to put in there, you know. And so I think that's why they were like, I think we'll leave the lights off on this and try to keep our build of materials where it needs to be. But, yeah, I would like – Optional then. Just have the cutouts and have it optional. Just have it optional. Yeah, man. Yeah. At the end of the day, it's a light bar, so the build of materials on that can't be that much. And they're all built the same way. They just have different stickers on them. So you could do 30,000 Expression Light kits and just put different stickers on them when it's ready to ship. That's it. And they code it once. They code it once, and it just works on all the games. That's it. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. What you're saying about the Pro Premium LE, I fully get it. I understand. Now, usually when these games come out, like 60% of the time, I recommend getting the Pro. Just like with the X-Men, I said, go for the Pro, right? But like six months ago or something, I got told, this game, you just go with the Pro. Go with the Pro. I also shared it here on our last show, our Patreon show. Go with the Pro on this one. A month ago or something. Yeah. This one came out. last night i went to bed and i was like i can't really sleep so i went in and i saw loser kid pinball podcast yeah they made an interview with the designer and coder of the scheme awesome so i thought yeah so awesome shout out to loser kid pinball podcast they also they always do these awesome interviews so i started that hit the bed and i was i think i listened to half of the show great show and i fell asleep beautiful in that show while i'm listening dude after the video i'm like okay the pros head goes up and down and not to the sides who cares get the pro and i'm listening to this interview the head goes up and down on the premium elite It goes to the sides. It has got a detector that detects where the head is. It has got a detector that detects when you hit the ball. It has got, from the trough, from the launcher, it can go in and feed this dragon. It can go in and lock balls. I don't know if it has got a tunnel system under the play field or it will just auto-launches and feeds just like in Turtles. I don't know how it does, but that stuff costs extra. So you can go into a multi-ball mode, and it was very late, but I think what Sullivan said, You could go into a 10 or 15 ball fight with the dragon, and the dragon will turn his head to the left and right and will try to shoot the ball out of the right and left out lane. You hit him. He grabs the balls. He feeds the balls, and he throws them out. Stuff like that is awesome. I mean, come on. When I heard that, I was like, okay. If the dragon's tracking your movements by reading switches and moving to that direction, that's pretty boss. Yes. I mean, tonight at 8 o'clock, we will get the world premiere gameplay video. We don't know how this plays, but I listened to this podcast. Again, shout out to Loser Kid. And when they talked about how it was coded, how you have to fight the dragon, it sounds so awesome. And you know what? Dwight Sullivan, when he was 18, he made his own Dungeons & Dragons camp. And he was playing these games at his place. He had this club. And you know how Brian Eddy is. It's a great team of people. and they are talking about, you know, the X-Men. It came out too early. You know how the code is. I'm defending X-Men, but nobody really likes the code.
    52:09
    It is what it is. I cannot defend it forever. It had some mechanical issues. But this game had six months more. So according to Dwight Sullivan, the code on this game is awesome. So we have been talking about on location, Donnie, this is a homeowner's pin. Yeah. I'm telling you, I think we will be blown away tonight. I mean the fact that there so much replay value baked in here because each of the four individual characters you have are all leveled individually so it not like venom where you just have one score for you know one level and you go all the way up and then beat null and then it resets you know there the four characters you know there's seven characters because with three unlockable ones and you can spend time and like max out the stats on all of them there's stuff to collect and things so i'm enthusiastic about that especially as a homeowner like i want reasons to go back and keep playing you know rather than you So if you've got a good layout that's fun, got some flow, some decent toys and things to do, and then you've got cool call-outs, and then the code is there. Yeah. That's why I'm excited about this game for nerds. Yeah. So I think because of the Dragon, Premium Melee, all the way. The second thing you were talking about, that dungeon crawl, it pops up just like in Theater of Magic, and you shoot the ball in there. Okay. So you say it's just another scoop, Vok. Yeah. But, Donnie, stuff like that, when it pops up, usually it's timed. You have like 10, 15 seconds to go in there. And when you make that shot, it's such a satisfying shot, Donnie. You have to take that in account also. It's so cool to shoot and it just has flunk and it claps down and you start that dungeon. It's a cool mode. But what I am disappointed about is if you go ahead and buy the premium LEED, I have zoomed in as an operator. It has got metal cliffy protectors around everything. So that's cool. Okay, from the wood to metal. That's cool, protecting everything. But if you buy the pro version, they use the same playfield cutouts. So the pro still has the cutout. That's so dumb. And they put something, I don't know, plastic to cover that hole. So you will get wear there when you put this in a location. When there's really like no need for that on a pro, yeah. No need for that. They should just have another playfield that has just got wood over there. So now we need to install playfield protectors and talk about wear. I know Stern doesn't care, but, yeah, as an operator, I just want to, yeah, Tell this to the – because not everybody thinks like this. Not everybody thinks about maintenance and wear and blah, blah, blah. But I think it's sad. And that under jaw of the dragon, every time they hit it, you can see it move to the sides. How long would that hold up? That's what we have. Yeah, what we don't know and we won't know until six months after this game launches is how is that dragon's jaw holding up on location? Absolutely. And Stern, in 2025, I'm not joking. When you buy a brand new game from Stern, they still give you Black Robber.
    55:30
    Black Robbers. Nobody else does that, man. Black Robbers is so, come on. You play it for six months. All the play field is black. You can't see. Everything is black. And those teeth on that dragon will be covered in Black Robber. It will be so black. Think of the gingivitis. It's just black. Like a stern translucent or yellow or white or something else. Not black. Did you notice they sprung for flipper topper decals or stickers?
    56:05
    No. What was? Like normally they're just, you know, white or yellow on top. But actually they have stickers installed on the Pearl Premium NLE flippers. Now with X-Men, they were included in the goodie bag. But here it looks like they're installing at the factory. Now I know they're just stickers, but it's kind of neat to see that they did that. It's nice, yeah, something extra. And I like instead of those round posts between the ramps, they use these thin blue rubber. That's awesome. What are they called, like snuffers or something? They got some kind of cute name for them. I don't know what the name is, but they're cool. They feel the game less clunky. That's cool. It has got this behind the upper left flipper shot, Just like you mentioned Star Trek. Yeah. I'm guessing you mean Stern Star Trek, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which version did you play? I played the one with the projector. It must have been a premium.
    57:05
    Oh, the light projector? Yeah, yeah. That must be the LE, man. Oh, okay. Did it have blue armor with laser cuts inside? No, no. But they said that the laser – Was it red armor? Yeah. The laser projector was green, though. They, like, swapped it in a different color. It was cool, man. If it's red armor, it's the premium. If it's blue armor, it's the Ellie. Yes, that was the premium then. Enzo, correct me if I'm wrong. Oh, okay.
    57:31
    Have you seen the Stern Star Trek Ellie? I have not. That's one that's escaped me. I haven't played Ellie. That game is jam-packed. Oh, my. I love that game. Wow, what an awesome game. Yeah, so this game, I think it's going to be a winner. Do we know anything about numbers? sold out anything? Do we know anything? Yeah, so I texted Jeff at Mad Pinball earlier the day and he said that they were selling pretty well, actually. He still had some LEs left and the premium production, he only got about a third of what he wanted to get for his allotment.
    58:08
    I think there's a supply line issue with the Dragon Head and they're going to have enough for the LEs and then, just like with the Jaws, they did the LEs and then with The premium, they only released like a small amount on that first run while they were waiting to get more supply in. So I think the first round of premiums will probably sell out pretty quick because there's not going to be as many. And then hopefully they get more parts in and they can do another subsequent run. But yeah, according to how you said. I just checked our distro, Stern Distro in Norway, and they are not sold out. Right, right. Now, so I did want to talk about this. Now, this game has been having a good reception. This reminds me of Foo Fighters a lot because expectations weren't really high. And actually, the pinball show just touched on this. So nobody had real high expectations from Dungeons & Dragons, right? I was like, okay, you know, it's not Elwynn's Kong or whatever. It's not Harry Potter. So we didn't have real high expectations. So nobody was let down. And actually, we were all kind of pleasantly surprised with what came out for the most part, you know. So I think this game will probably sell fairly well initially, and then it'll hit a saturation point and then probably drop off. That's the same thing that happened with Foo Fighters. You know, Foo Fighters sold really well, was a fun layout. And then, you know, it hit saturation. And then if you wanted one, it was so easy to get them that the aftermarket price just tanked. And with them being cheap used, why would you buy a new unboxed one for full price? And so, you know, then they just kind of dropped off a cliff. this may have a similar um you know sell through maybe we'll see it's not covet anymore so i'm sure it's not going to sell as you know many numbers but but you know maybe there'll be enough out there that people play it they enjoy it and then they dump it out on the used market and so you can pick one up for a good price i mean the whole pinball industry i mean the whole world all the prices are down you cannot just say don't buy this you will lose five thousand No. I can see here. You can buy it. I can order one, Ellie. Are you sitting down? Yes, you are. Check this out.
    60:18
    $16,624. Gosh. Yeah. But they're still unstuck. Let me see. Metallica remastered, sold out. Uncanny X-Men. Let me see Uncanny. Yeah. Still unstuck. You can get a Berrio's Barbecue Challenge for $5,500 right now.
    60:45
    Dude. You said you sold your spooky... Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Scooby-Doo. So let me hear about... That was the collector's edition, right? Collector's edition, butter cabinet, loaded with mods. What did you sell it for? $8,000 flat.
    61:03
    With the upgraded topper. Collector's edition? Yeah. That's cheap, Donnie. That's the price they were going for. Now, I got Evil Dead coming. I had to make some decisions. I do love the game. But here's the thing. I could sell it for $8,000 now, and then in six months, I can buy it back again for about that same price. So, yeah. I'm loving this. They're out there. I'm getting an X-Men LE. Listen to this, Donnie. I'm getting an X-Men LE. Don't tell me. One left. Venom LE. One left. Yeah, sure, buddy. Oh, sure, sure. All the LEs. One left. one left yeah last one last one the godzilla 70th let me see yeah yeah also available barrios barbecue challenge limited edition 5800 or best offer dude it's crazy man yeah we can still get oh wait john wick that's an old game oh yeah john wick doesn't even say oh it says free shipping also it doesn't even say one left it just say available man come on by my john wicks he says no kidding uh how does john wick do in the u.s uh i think they're around 10 000 for the le or the early maybe 9900 dude yeah one left on that yeah let me just close this one down okay i'm looking at the artwork at the uh it's very dark man that back glass but uh yeah i'm very excited about tonight, 8 o'clock. Welcome to 8 o'clock. They will show the gameplay. You know what I'm excited for? I'm excited for two days from now when I get to go to Stern and go play the damn thing.
    62:44
    Three days from now, you're still jet-lagged. Oh my God, it's so bad. Just got back from Australia. Oh my God. I'm so exhausted.
    62:52
    Was it cool to hang out with Enzo? It was so amazing. Enzo, Ryan Barry, Kimba, Dr. John, motto, Hank, Ryan's dog, me and him became buddies. Yeah, it was just a good time.
    63:07
    I'm so happy for you, man. So you had a summer Christmas time. Yes, sir. That's nice, man. Oh, I want to talk about the apron of the early version also. Have you seen the dragon artwork just over the Insider Connected thing? Oh, yeah. Interesting. That dragon just flaming fire. I think – I mean calling this a nerdy game, I don't care about stuff like that. I think it's awesome. I'm so happy they made a theme like this. This is not just another movie theme or just another music theme or what you want to call it. Yeah. I think this is going to be a winner. This is – while it is a licensed theme, this does seem quite original, right? Because it's not just another movie-based theme, another Marvel pin, another music pin. It's something completely different. It's something we haven't seen since Star Trek and since Pirates of the Caribbean.
    64:06
    Yeah. I mean, it's different in the sense of, yes, it is Dungeons & Dragons, but Dwight Sullivan is the game master, and he can just create his own game, his own story. And they can create new stories in six months. I mean, they can go dive deep in. This is a huge, huge world. This is perfect for pinball. The only thing they can't change is the map in the middle of the play field, but they can add more tiers on every mode of that map. I'm loving that map system. I don't think there's anything stopping them from adding more characters too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, more fights, more enemies. This is awesome, man. Cannot wait. And I will make an in-depth video with shots and layout after we have seen the gameplay video. Because sometimes it takes multiple weeks before we see the gameplay video. Right? Yeah, they're quick with it. This one released yesterday, video today. It's awesome. Do you think Dwight will dress up as a wizard or something? I know I will. Yeah. it's gonna be cool man all right donnie yeah so if you um when you visit this company and you play this game stern is thinking we're inviting donnie because he's gonna buy it are you going to buy it how do you feel right now not in two days right now right now right now um no have not ordered it and i'm not planning on buying one right now i'm trying to stick to my new year's resolution of avoiding new in box pins because I have just so much to play already. Um, but you know, I'm kind of, you know, I was still trying to suss out like which version I would want. Uh, I don't think I'll go for an Ellie here because there's no cabin expression lights. So it's just a lot more money with less features. I think I'll get the premium, but if I get a premium, which I would like to do at some point, um, I got to put a shaker motor in it. I got to put our blades in it. I got to, you know, and I just, I just did, um, you know, two X-Men. I just did a build with a jaws. I did a build with metallica i don't want to start again with another build right now ordering custom armor taking it to the powder cutter getting it all in there it's just a lot of work and i want a damn break for a little bit that being said your skills with your skills i would go for the premium i mean your skills when you do your magic these some of these games looks better than bailey i'm telling you man i'm telling you now i did have a customer reach out and they're going to let me know today if they want to go on a premium build. So if that happens, then I'll be having an unboxing here in a couple weeks. So we'll see. But as far as myself, I'm impressed enough with this game that I want to own it and play through everything at some point. But I'm so blessed with other games that I don't really need to rush out and do it necessarily right now, and I think that's okay. This is a game that will be in production for years, and you'll be able to get one.
    67:03
    I talked with my bro for two hours ago. about ordering this game for a location, and I actually said to him, I'm not sure, and he wasn't really sure either. We have so many pinball machines out there, and to be honest, it's much better to use the same money on a Raw Thrills machine than a pinball machine. Oh, if you're trying to make money, yeah. I'm sorry to say this in a pinball show, but put a Halo out there. it will make money as like eight pinball machines yeah it is what this uh yeah the pinball it's still we want pinball to go mainstream but um yeah when i talk with people when i mention pinball they're like what's that or do they still make those and yeah i mean if you're paying your rent based on coin drop then yeah you got to go where the money's at um you know but if i want to you know get greedy and put my dragon horde hands around a game in my game room. This is right. This is for me, you know. I mean, yeah. For the home user, this is awesome. And Dwight Sullivan's code, he has so much passion. I mean, he has so much passion doing this. And we all know Brian Eddy. I mean, Brian Eddy is a sweetheart. And what he has done here, I cannot wait playing this game. But we're not sure. Let's see the gameplay video, and then we will check it out after that. I dig it, man. I dig it. All right. You ready to head over into the green room for the after show? Oh, yeah. We got some juicy stuff on Patreon, baby. I got rumors to talk about. I got Pinball Company turmoil we can talk about, too.
    68:51
    We're going to share some insider stuff. Absolutely, man. Come on in and join us. It could be awesome. If you want to join us at $5 spot, we love you. If you want to join us at 50, we love you. If you join us at 100, you can take a bubble bath together with Don. It's all up to you. And get your mud sent by him. It's going to be awesome, man. Let's get out that awesome music, Tony. I love it. What's our email address?
    69:17
    WeArePinball69 at gmail.com to get at us. Oh, yeah. Otherwise, jump on the Patreon group, man. We'll talk. We are Pinball Facebook group. God, I'm jet lagged.
    69:28
    It's okay, buddy. It's okay. I got so much more stuff to talk about, too. Let's jump in the green room for the after show. It's going to be awesome. Let's go.
    69:43
    Why, man? In a legal way and responsibly, of course. I'm taking it next semester And I know why, why man Cause I got high Because I got high