Before we begin the show, Greg and I want to extend our warmest welcome and thanks to the newest sponsor of Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Show, and that is PenGraphics. Joe at PenGraphics is a terrific guy. He's got a great team over there creating some of the coolest technology and modification in pinball machines. He's got these things called Power Blades that are essentially side art decals, but they light up behind them. They're really easy to install. I'm going to be throwing a set into a Lord of the Rings here soon. We'll get a video of that. He's also got things like, you pick a game, he's got side decal inner art blades for them. They're high quality, easy to install. We just love them. Metallica, he's got that wrapping 3D snake mod that goes up the right ramp as well as the fangs, the mouth decal kit. He's got blade skins. Those are side decal art blades, inner art blades. But they have mirroring effects on them. How badass is that? So check out Pingraphics.com. We're going to be showing off a lot of his products in the coming episodes. But until then, thanks again, Joe. Welcome to Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Show. The wait is over. A revolution in LED lighting for your pinball is finally here. Fully customizable, full-spectrum lighting from Pin Stadium Lights. Order yours now at PennStadium.com. Hey, how's it going everybody? I'm here today with Jason, a.k.a. Hoagie on Penn's side. and he was kind enough to invite us in and allow us to do a collector's interview and stuff and we reached out to him. So let's get it kicked off, Jason. First and foremost, it's always the very first question. What got you into pinball? What got me into pinball? We were going over to a friend's house and they had a champion pub in the basement. And, you know, my wife and I really weren't pinball people. I'm a video game person, music person. You know, I like tinkering. But anyway, we played their game and just thought, man, it would be so great to have one game. One pinball machine, that would be amazing. Anyway, I called around and found out they were exorbitantly expensive. How long ago was this? Oh gosh, what, like six years now maybe? So pin prices were still a lot better than they are today. A lot better. The first one was a Stargate. I bought it as a project from the Treasure Cove guys. I called them and said, you know, we really like Tales of the Arabian Nights. That's such a cool game. And I talked to Alan, and he said, yeah, that one starts out about $7,000. So, you know, I thought, well, we'll never have a pinball machine. But I asked what else they had, and he had a junked-out Stargate that he said they didn't have any plans on fixing. Yeah, I'll take it. I bought it pretty cheap, and it did nothing. So that was a huge project. I knew nothing about fixing them. So that was my first game and how it got started. Man, all about Champions. Do you still like Champions Pub? I do. It's gimmicky, but I still like it. It's gimmicky. I think I like it enough to play it any time I go over to their house. I don't know if I'd want to own one. He and I may trade someday, just temporarily. He wants to play my Tron pretty badly. I don't blame him. You guys will see it. It's seriously one of the most beautiful pros I've seen for sure. So what's the current count in your collection? Do you know? Oh, current count. I think I have to look. I think it's 10 right now maybe. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and nine. I have nine right here. And I'll tell you what, like nine pins, it doesn't seem like a lot, but Jason seriously has. He runs the gamut. He's got EM, solid state, sterns. You got the start. You got the Bally Williams, and then you've got like you literally run. Yeah, it's quite a, it's current down to six. System 11. Yes. Like, you've got literally everything. So it's like a little pinball museum. I have one for every decade, at least. Yeah. That's so awesome. Yeah, thanks. So what pins have you owned? Because you kind of, like, you don't cycle through them a lot. But in six years, you can go through quite a few pins. Well, okay, the ones I've owned, I have the current lineup back here. You know, I have Tron, Metallica, Whitewater. Let's see. Rob Zombie. I have Stargate, Centaur Taxi, Shadow, and Quickdraw. The other ones I've had, I've had Lord of the Rings. That was the longest running game. I had that a long time. With due reason. Due reason. It's amazing. It's really great. I finally traded it off. Lord of the Rings, Bram Stoker's Dracula. I dearly miss that one. I've had Atoms. I had, let's see, Iron Man, Spider-Man. I'm trying to think about missing something Oh, Game of Thrones, loved it too I think those are the only ones I've had that I can think of off the top I'm probably missing something Out of all those pins, which one do you regret the most? Getting rid of Regret's a weird thing The ones I miss the most by a lot Bram Stoker's I loved That's what I hear from everybody It's so hard but so awesome It's just multiball, multiball and that's the only thing you're trying to achieve basically and I just feel like man am I going to get tired of it but literally everybody says I missed that game when I get rid of it I've owned it two or three times I hate it I will own it again I traded it for my Game of Thrones and I didn't regret that Game of Thrones is awesome it's awesome I had a pro traded mine to Trent and he wanted a nicer Dracula than he had so he traded me and gave me a good deal I don't know, man. If I can get another one, I'm going to get another one. What pen did you own? Was it the Lord of the Rings that you owned? Yeah, that was the second game that I purchased. The Stargate, actually, I traded it for a whirlwind for a while. Well, not for a while. I traded it for a whirlwind, and I found another one. Tony Hutton, down in Jeff, he had one. I didn't really want to mess with it, and I bought it. It was a little bit of a project. And let's see. Yeah, so Lord of the Rings I bought that same summer. I bought our first pen. So I've had it. entire run. I just got rid of it. Yeah, I remember when you had it up for sale. I'd looked at it. My finances, that game skyrocketed. It jumped a lot. So out of your current lineup, what games have been here the longest out of current? Current lineup, well, really, I guess Metallica, Stargate. Metallica and Stargate are the two that have been around the longest. Tron, I traded away. That was for the Dracula, and a guy hit me up and asked if I would sell it, all based off of pictures on Pinside. And I said, no, man, I play it every single day. He said, well, what if I shot you a crazy price? And I was like, sure. So I wound up meeting him that Friday. That's what happened. Well, you know, there's one thing I've learned. It's like, it's serious. It's like you don't get rid of a game. No, no, no. It's almost so hard. It's like you get kind of tired of it. Well, and that exact same Tron came back to me. Oh, so it's the same one. It's the same one. That guy traded it away, and a guy in Indianapolis had it, and I saw it pop up for sale, and I thought I recognized his name, his inside name. It was a Mitron. So I traded my Game of Thrones and got it back. Oh, my God, man. It's never leaving again. Yeah, I don't blame you. That's for sure. So with the number of pins you have now, are you at the point of where a pin doesn't get old because you've got enough to play, or do some of them still kind of get like, eh? Yeah, that's the spot I'm in now. You know, I've talked about trading a lot. I hate getting rid of games. but generally speaking trading to get one that I like a little better is okay you can only keep so many of them but I'm at the spot now that there's so much variety I really love that variety and the games I have I really like I love every one of them none of them are stinkers I'm not bragging I like Centaur if I had to get rid of one I just don't know what I would right now we've talked about that before I've even said Metallica might I'm thinking every time I turn it on I have a blast That would be stupid I would really miss that one It's kind of got everything To me it's kind of got everything you want in a game It's a good shot game You can put a little bit of flow to it It's all so repetitive It's chopping wood But it's still something fun There's enough shots in it I don't think it is Some of the things never get old One thing I love about Metallica is when you build up the, you build up, it's like your progress toward the crank it ups. Yeah. When you shoot a ramp and then you hit the associated shots and that ramp is lit solid, you're getting all those, all those, what do you call it? It's like, it's getting you the snake hit. Yeah, the 15 hit. It'd be different. It is. Because to me, it would be repetitive and it'd be bad if you just had to hit Sparky or you just had to hit the snake. But the fact that you can light the ramps and hit different shots to accumulate what you need to progress, Exactly. That adds some interest to it because then it opens up all the other shots that you have. Well, and I'm not the world's best or worst player, but people talk about the only way to play that game is to bash Sparky. That's stupid. No, no, there's a lot. Not it at all. My biggest score is almost 600 million. Oh, my God. I haven't made it to the end of the line yet, but I've beat the heck out of it. That's pretty damn good. That's a tight score. But anyway, I made it to the third crank it up, and this is on three ball. Anyway, man, it's so fun. It's so fun. I love that fuel shot. You hit the ramp and drill the fuel shot, hit the scoop. That's a rush every time. That scoop's a little tough sometimes, man. It's there, but it can be when you needed it. It's like, ah! It's difficult. He's rejected me. Let me in. It's like that left. People talk about how tough Rob Zombie is which it is But the left loop or left what do you call that the outer lane loop Anyway you have to hit that to start all the modes And it's such a hard shot. It doesn't feel good. Now, you told me, okay, speaking of Rob Zombie. So the left, a lot of people have problems. But you said you've kind of gotten accustomed to the left, and the right can sometimes mess you up. Yes, that right orbit is super hard. I, you know, just last night I was playing American Witch, and you have to shoot the left orbit three times, the center, you know, the ramp, which is easy, and then shoot that right orbit. And, man, it's just every time. You still liking it, though? Oh, yeah, a little bit. It's a blast. How's that update? Because we talked in one of our old videos about that the update came out, but I didn't know a lot about it, and, like, I know you had it and everything. Is there anything, like, in your mind that stood out the most that you remember of difference? Yeah, the lights are a little. The lighting's a little different. Oh, so it changed the lighting. It changed a little bit of lighting. I like the modes. The modes, they tweaked a lot of little things. What now? What is where you get up on the upper play field and you have to bat the ball back around and hit Spalding several times? Well, you would go through what? I don't know how many shots. Let's say it's 12 shots. You hit the 11th shot and you drain. You have to start it all over again. Yeah. Oh, I'm driving crazy. That was a big complaint. Such a frustration. So now once you get to those last few shots, I think that's where you start when you get back up there. Oh, that's nice. You know, they changed some of the call-outs, and I'm weird about that. Like, I liked some of the things before better. You know, it's silly stuff. It'd be nice to be able to go into some code stuff and click what you want to change. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do your own code and then download that and put it into a pin. Which is like the way that an old pinball browser, you can do that. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. The Stern games. I took out all the bad language in one of my friends Star Trek's he didn't like the quotes with you know anyway he just didn't like it so he asked me I've changed the songs in Metallica it wasn't that hard I had to find the quotes he didn't like and just insert a different one in there but now with Rob Zombie I don't know if the code's like that but I'm happy with everything they did to me it was already a keeper but it's Yeah, it's way bigger now. Also, it's a keeper for it. I think it's a keeper. I think it's probably just tough enough, ain't it, to get you. It's hard. Well, I'll tell you, I trained an Iron Man for it. Oh. Iron Man's a butt kicker, man. That is such a hard game. But Iron Man, you know, I've talked about this before. To me, it lacks a little bit of personality. Yeah. And, you know, it's kind of funny. You know, I think about the Iron Man movies. Tony Zac Stark is such a big personality. Like, it's so, you know, he's obnoxious. And I like him. None of that's in the pin. Not really. Not really. It feels a little bit distant from the theme in that way. Now, I will say the sounds are awesome. They totally rock. But it gets a little bit repetitive, I think. And I enjoyed Iron Man. I played it all the time. Well, you know, that's kind of what some of the complaints that I've heard against Star Wars, too, was that it just doesn't, Star Wars, it's not as bad looking in person. It's actually kind of pretty. but that it just it doesn't encase Star Wars like when you play it you don't feel Star Wars even with the LCDs and the movie screenshots and everything it just feels something just doesn't pull you in I hate that about a game I know I think that pulls me into a pen I think that even though most people hate Ghostbusters that's one of the things I enjoy most about Ghostbusters is it feels like the movie yeah they nailed the theme Lord of the Rings was like that Yeah, exactly. When Gimli's screaming, you know, jackpot and all this. Yeah. And Gandalf is saying, you shall not pass. And the whole machine feels like it's going to explode. It's just, I don't know. They nailed the Lord of the Rings theme. Go ahead. I'll tell you a revelation that I had the other day. And tell me if you agree with this. Do you watch Game of Thrones? Oh, I love it. Okay. So I always looked at the pen and I was like, they did the most terrible job in the world encasing this show. Like the play field is so stripped down and everything. But then I was watching the opening credits. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The play field and everything feels like the opening credits. Everything kind of feels like the opening credits. And it's kind of weird that it doesn't encompass the show. Yeah. How could it, too? It's kind of tough. It is. You'd almost have a Lord of the Rings-type feel to the game in a sense. And I'll say this, too, about Game of Thrones. I loved it. I thought it was great. I love the Hound's Callouts. They're right. They're great. I do wish there was a little bit more personality from more of the characters. I agree. There's not a lot. Not a lot. Black water, multiball. That's one of the best call-outs in pinball, I think. It gives you chills. My kids used to quote it. I take them over to Z-Bar we'd play, and my little one would quote it. She's like three years old at the time. She's like, black water, multiball. She just loved it. My son used to quote the Ents and Lord of the Rings. What they say, I can't remember the quote, He'd be playing over on the train table and go, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was whatever shot. Well, I'll tell you what it was. It was the Saruman. That'll make you proud. Yeah, you're like, that's great. I've achieved this. So, okay, so out of all the pens, because you've owned some good pens, Adam's family, Spider-Man, all that stuff. Is there a pen that you have not owned that you want to own that you're just like, man, I just haven't picked it up. I haven't found one. Yeah, there's a couple. What is it? There's a couple. you know Tales of the Arabian Nights is one that still elusive still elusive now if I wanted to buy a high end or stored one yeah I'm you know I've talked about this too I like to buy project games I like to buy routed games that are even broken you know you can get a good discount but then plug in money and time and fix them up I like I like that kind of a deal so I'd love to find a project Tales someday yeah you know if I could which is kind of hard because people know the money to be made so they grab them and they fix them up themselves or somebody snatches them up just for resale and they'll fix them up. That sucks, man. I know. I've heard it from – I was talking to Ray from Treasure Cove one day and he said that – we were talking about Taxi for that matter. He's like, oh, those games aren't worth crap. They're not in comparison to that. When you can fix up – say he got a Tails for a couple grand from some route operator and then they sell it for seven. Well, that's a huge profit margin. It is. and on a System 11 top end you're topping out pretty early yeah you know in comparison so I get it yeah I just really one day if I can find that you know that unicorn yeah that's the one you know and it's not a deep game it's such a beautiful game though and I love the sounds it is really pretty they nailed the theme on that one yeah they really do that's one I'd really love to have and there are tons of others man I don't know I'm trying to think Walking Dead I'd like to own a Walking Dead Well, you haven't overrun The Walking Dead of all games. It's been so close a couple of times. Oh, man. I could have had a nice one for my Lord of the Rings, but I wound up with that Whitewater and a Project Shadow. Oh, for the Lord of the Rings? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, you can't beat it at all. You'll see it up close. That Whitewater is gorgeous, man. It is so pretty. So, yeah, speaking of fixing stuff up, so your Shadow was a Project Game. It was huge. The Shadow, my gosh, it was awful. All the boards were missing. what it was is that one had been parted so they took everything off of it it was missing the gun handle the ramps looked like they lived in the ocean seriously I polished them all I had them plated so the ramps look awesome now but the play field was really nice you see horrible wear spots on the sanctum and anyway right there you can see a little bit of a divot a little bit of a wear spot it's not completely down to wood it's just a little dark That's not bad. It's not bad. Actually, that was nice. It was missing the speaker display panel, like the wood and all that stuff. I got a whole bunch of stuff. I ordered some stuff from Arrakison. I don't know his entire name, but this guy from Bulgaria. Oh, man. I know. So he's on Pennside. He sells parts, and they were fine. One of them hung out in customs for like an entire month. but um I called the USPS I'm like you know what can I do and they're just like yeah it's just how it is I can't remember what it was it was like the power box or something you couldn't buy anywhere else I was about to just have to make a new one myself but that was a big project that's basically like an entire rebuild it was an entire rebuild I mean it had everything but a lot of things were broken I talked to a collector one time I said man what do you look for in a game and he goes I don't care about anything else except for the play field because everything else can honestly be fairly easily redone. It really can. So it's just I look at the play field as my number one thing, and then go from there. And, you know, if it's a big deal to you, the plastics too, knowing whether or not they're available. Like my BSD, that game had a broken slingshot, and I thought, no, no big deal. Well, it turns out you can't buy the plastics anywhere. Brian Kelly redid some. Is that the ones with, like, Winona Ryder's face? Yeah, it had those too. you know but anyway I bought a repro plastic set and swapped out a bunch on Dracula and it's a toss up on those of what you get because some are good and then some just aren't done real well you know that was it I bought some and they I bought some online and they'd done just the slingshots but they didn't match the I'm weird about that the I can't it was like the they were darker than the rest of the plastics like the blues didn't match everything else so silly but it drove me nuts no I'm being an old yeah it kind of drove me crazy So do you have anything else that you had that was a project? Oh, my gosh, yeah. Was it all up? I was going to say everything in here was either a project or I traded a project game. I fixed a project game. To get it. To get it. Taxi came in a box. Oh. Not the cabinet box. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, all the ramps and stuff were all in bags and boxes. Did somebody just get tired? Like they were going to do something with it and just didn't? It was a guy in Sellersburg. Robert Cecil he had it and he put it up for sale in Pennside Hit him up and said oh man I dying to see it Anyway we talked about it for a little bit It was all in a box And some of the stuff I've gotten from other people that, you know, fixing stuff for them and favors and things, but Centaur was rough. It had dirt dauber nests in it and the boards were all bad. It was like a garage fine. Garage find kind of. Stargate had a bad soundboard and some other stuff was missing and broken. It was hard to fix that. That Stargate is really clean. It is a nice play field. Yeah, and like I said, the other games, pretty much all of them are, I don't know, I just traded a project to get them. Lord of the Rings even was a routed game that was in rough shape. Well, that makes the hobby somewhat affordable because you were to go out and buy it because it's a good collection. it would be a lot of money if you didn't work your way up honestly I couldn't see how I would have done that it's just buying a game that's broken and that's part of it too it's kind of silly but I love the repair part too fixing a game that's not working I get all excited and get my tools all out and my soldering iron and go after it it drives me nuts if it's not working correctly but shoot It's nice to have that skill, man I've got very, very limited skills But just even LED in a game I love tinkering and messing with it And it's just like, I want to work my way up to that Because I know I'd love it It's addictive Fixing everything So Adam, what's your favorite pin of all time? Do you have a favorite? That one, oh my god, I just loved it Man, I don't know I go through stages of all these Stargate's pretty special to you It's pretty special to me. That was our first game. I got rid of that one, and then my wife and I talked about it. I had to have it back, you know? Yeah. And so anyway, gosh, yeah, Stargate's one I'll never get rid of. You know, there's this piece, too, that, you know, that one's not worth a ton. Yeah. You know, it's just not. So, I mean, the value of a game kind of sometimes, if I know it's worth a bunch and another game I want is worth a lot, I think, well, I could get rid of that. but Stargate wouldn't bring that much money anyway, and I love it. It's so fun. It's a real polarizing game. People either love it or hate it. I love it. I'm in that camp. But, you know, man, if you read, there's just so much. That's what's so weird about this. I mean, I think we've talked about it before. It's just that everybody, there's something special about a certain pin to each person. You can have a top 100 all you want, and those games can actually be, yeah, those are really great games, but it's not always the medieval madness isn't always somebody's favorite game it's something special whether it's your first game whether it's just something that reminds you of a certain time in your childhood or something like and that's what's so freaking great about Pins it's hard to take people's opinion sometimes because it's like oh that game sucks and you might end up loving the hell out of it or something or that game's so good it could be a turd and you'd hate it you know Adams was like that a little for me I mean don't get me wrong it's a classic game It's great. And there's so many good things about it. The theme is awesome. It really shoots pretty well. When I played it, and I was playing this game, and you can shoot the middle ramp and do so much with that and then shoot that scoop. And really, that's a lot of Tour in the Mansion and huge points. It really is. It was kind of like once I figured out that exploit, I'm like, oh, it's kind of a letdown. So Adams got kind of old fast to me. And I think Adams, it's a good game. that people, I think, get enamored with when they first get into pinball. But I think for long-time players and collectors, it's not... It's like you said, it's actually kind of shallow, in a sense. But it's still popular, and it's still fetching a ton of money. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, and the movies weren't that popular. The TV show and stuff was pretty big. It's a pretty game. You know what, I think it's a game that Pat Lawler just absolutely... He nailed it. He nailed the theme. I think Chris Granner did the music. Chris is another one of my favorite music guys in pinball. And, you know, they just nailed it. The theme is awesome. I mean, how they put it together. Yeah, very much so. It has a lot of personality. It has a lot of cool gimmicks. I think the sounds and stuff on it sounds the best. Like I said, it fits so well on all that. And as much as I'm talking all these highly about it, I'd probably never have another one. Yeah. It's an expensive game. To me, the depth was kind of... Well, that's the thing. It's not a $5,000, $6,000 game to me. It just doesn't have. No. Yeah. I would jump again, maybe. Yeah. So, speak. Toronto's one I'm not going to. Oh, yeah. Well, I don't blame you at all. Hoagie had some people over. I came over to his house and played some pins. It was the first time I'd ever got to play Toronto. And I was just, I was blown away by the pin. Because it seems like there's not a lot to do, but it's something that captivates. It is. It's strategic. It's very strategic. about the way you play it and the shots are some of them are kind of tough the gym shots everything's just oh yeah it's difficult yeah you just fall in love with it it's so neat it's one of those one more game games yeah you know you hit that button again because you know when you make it to end the line oh man it's such a rush is it your heart's pumping and you're like end the line that's what makes a good fan it really does and right when you're within that grasp you just can't quite reach it yeah Iron Man was like that a little too but I think they nailed the theme better in Tron yeah oh yeah I agree Tron It does, for sure. And it flows better, too. I like all the combos. Yeah. You know, making the left ramp, the Cora shot, the right ramp. And then if you can shoot between the pops, that loop, and then hit the ramp again. That's just like, I can't remember how many number, what combo. It's kind of open. It doesn't seem like there's that many shots. But it is. It's full of. Oh, it's full of shots. Full of it. And the gym shot's not impossible. People talk about that. But honestly, I can hit that on the fly a lot. I haven't played it enough. Yeah. It's not that bad. So speaking of games that people, you know, like when we were talking about games that people love for odd reasons and everything else, is there a game that you love that everybody hates? Oh, gosh. Yeah, Shadow. I mean, not Shadow. Stargate would be the closest. It's very close, yeah. You know. Because I love it, too. Everybody hates it. A lot of people really like it. The very first time I ever talked to Hoagie was he had his Spider-Man for sale, and I wrote him about it, and he was like, hey, I got this and everything. I saw his claim. I was like, what do you want to get rid of that? Stargate? He said, no, that's not really for sale. Because I love it. I don't know why either. It's just a game that's something. The movie was cool. It's a lot of multi-balls, but it's still just something fun about the game. The shots are really cool. Yeah. The shots are really cool. And in terms of like. The ramps are tough. I was going to say the ramps are hard too. The flippers feel weird, and I think that draws a lot of the hate. The Gottlieb system, I think that's the system three. They almost feel weak, but they make everything. Right. Yeah, they don't have the snap. Yeah. flippers or stern flippers have yeah um but in terms of like what you get yeah somebody the other day was talking about dialed in and you know you get what you pay for that's a lot of money for that game yeah i don't know about getting what you pay for uh anyway this game this game in terms of of like what you get this is like a super le yeah standards i mean i feel like gotley um they knew they were going down and they just wanted to go down in flames and throw it all at it. It's probably arguably one of their best games, really. Oh, yeah, well, it did. I've heard almost everybody say it's the best Gottlieb Solid State. You know, the, uh, you just have so many loops and shots and the ramps and have the pyramid that opens up. If you're a toy person at all, it's crazy. It's filled with stuff. So, I mean, I don't know. I think it's pretty incredible. I gotta find one. I'm so amazed that it gets so much hate. Yeah, I am, too. Like, it's fun. Every time I play it, it's fun. They had one eastern bowling lanes nice go there play they shut it down so that I'm like oh my god my star fix of star game pretty one yeah it was it wasn't that bad there was a little bit of wearing couple there thing I'd even gave them my number I was like you know because they didn't own it somebody routed there and I was like can you give me like put me in contact him just give him my number is because I'm gonna throw an offer to him for it yeah you see I never did hear anything though they never wrote me back so vice versa is there a pin that you love or that you hate that everybody loves? Yeah, well, I don't know, man. Adams would be the closest. I've talked about that a lot. But probably, you know, a lot of people but I mean, you have a lot of players and collectors that say the same thing I did. Once you figure it out, it's just all the magic's a little bit gone. And I would say, for me, I'm not the world's greatest player. I don't even play in tournaments or anything, but I'm a decent player. And once I kind of master that, it just loses a little bit of its magic. and I know Tales would be that way. I know it would. Tales is one of the easier games too. I think it's a lot of games, unless you have something like Lord of the Rings or Simpsons or something. I think a lot of games, when you get to a certain level of playing ability, that you kind of conquer a lot of things. It's just, you either got to have a good sized collection to keep you interested, and then back and forth, or it's just got to be a really tough game like that. I think anything can almost get old, but I agree with that. It was one of my number one pins when I got it. That and Spider-Man was my two favorite when I got into pinball. I was like, all right, well, one it, I won it, I won it. But then the more that I played it, as I said, kind of dropped lower on my list of things to watch. Now, Spider-Man's still up there. And people say Spider-Man, I'll get tired of it. But Spider-Man's still up there. I guess theme, I don't know what. You know, yes and no. You know, they nailed the theme on Spider-Man 2. Yeah. It feels like the films. It does. It really does. Yeah. The shots feel so good. I don't know. I got rid of Spider-Man to get Iron Man. I don't know if I regret that. I probably, all in all, I probably liked Spider-Man better. Yeah. I kind of wish I still had that. My son really liked it, so I felt kind of bad about that. But Spider-Man's the one I would own again, for sure. Yeah. I didn't really, I didn't, I did make Super Hero. I made it to Super Hero. Oh, man. It's hard. Yeah. But I only did that one time. Do you remember your top score on it? No, it was in the twos. Oh. I don't think I broke 300. I want to say like 280 million or something. It's still a decent score. Yeah. Pretty high score. and anyway yeah so that was I don't know I really loved it too I highly recommend it I going to have to get it So Pinboro just happened recently replayed Is there any expos that you go to or anything that your interest You know, it's weird. I would love to go out and do some of these other ones. You know, my day job is a teacher. And, you know, we have two young kids, a six-year-old and a four-year-old. My wife works full time. I always feel a little guilty about doing any kind of major travel for pinball. Well, and the closest really to us, I guess, is Little Bar. Well, there's the Little Barcade Expo, and I've taken games for that. Yeah. And probably Chicago. Yeah, I haven't gone to Chicago yet, and I really want to. Yeah. That's one. One year, it was on my fall break for school. I was a schoolteacher, so I was like, oh, yes, and then I can't remember why I couldn't go. Well, that's the hard thing. It's like family. Family, it's one thing or another. Work or family, it kind of gets in the way of a lot of stuff. You know what? That's okay. It is. It is. My wife and I talk about that. Yeah. The kids, I'll be upstairs getting things ready for dinner, and I'll hear, boom, the games turn on. That's so cool. My daughter will play a lot of Centipede, and Eli will wind up playing a lot of Whitewater. That's what I was telling Huggy. I was supposed to go to replay. We talked about it on our video stuff. Then I misjudged the start of school. Our kids got into school the week of Pembroke, and it screwed up my entire plans there. It's like, this is one of those things. I had a buddy who was like, man, aren't you upset? Aren't you so mad you didn't get to go there? I'm like, no, it's life. It's family. If it was anything else that got in the way, yeah, it might be a little upset. It's family, man. It's kids. I don't see me leaving the hobby in 15 or 16 years. When they're going to college and they're somewhere else, my wife and I are one-on-one. We get into it. We do some road trips. Yeah. You know, that's fine. Yeah. That would be perfectly fine then. Yeah, shows are fun. I haven't been to a lot, but I like them. But sometimes they're overplayed. You know, you play so much. Yeah, I was going to say, I play so much at home. Yeah. You know, I'm weird like this, too. I don't love standing in lines anyway. And it's like, you know, you're going to stand in line six, seven people deep and only play one round and then have to go to another game. I don't know. I was kind of nervous about that replay with it being such a big show, whether or not that I was even going to get much gameplay. Because little can get kind of backed up as small as it is and everything. I'm kind of like, oh, you know, am I going to regret spending that money to go up there? But it was touted to the wife as a good getaway for us and everything. So, you know, that's the only way I worked that in. Well, you know, I wound up, you know, with me anyway, it shows I wound up talking to a bunch of people I know. Yeah. You know, you play it. Yeah, I know you last time I went, but, I mean, if I ran into you, we'd chat. Yeah. I'll run into IndiePen. Yeah. You know, it's like I'll see Kaz. All these guys I'll run into and we'll just chat for a long time. It turns into like a social. Yeah, it's more of a social thing. And you know what? It sounds weird, but to look at everybody so excited and playing all those games, that kind of fires me up. Yeah. I look around like, hey, this is a cool hobby I'm a part of. Yeah. People are excited about it. It is. So, I mean, the playing aspect of these expos is very small. I agree. I went to Dirty Donnie last year and chatted with him forever. Yeah. We had a good time. Well, yeah, it's people you don't really get to see. It's just like I've never seen a hobby where people are so enthusiastic about it. And so most people are so generous. There's still people out there that are rude. I think the guys that are trying to make all the big money on it or whatever or kind of giving people the run around and maybe taking money in a way, those guys can make the hobby look, seem bad. And even people dog on Pinside sometimes about how negative things are. You know, Pinside isn't all negative. It's the negative loudmouths that do kind of overshadow things sometimes. But if you look, really, the guys that are nasty on there, the guys that I've met, it's such a small part of it. It is. It is very small. There's only like a handful of guys that are really kind of buttheads on Pinside. Yeah. But they interject themselves into so many different threads, it seems more vast than what it is. I have like 2,000 posts, and they have like 20,000 posts. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think the silent majority is really probably the nicer people. Well, that's what I told my wife. My first experience, because I went long in a pinball when I looked at your Spider-Man. Yeah, that's true. And I was like, this guy invited me over. He was like, hey, if you want to take a look at him, I'm having some guys over to play some pinball. You can stop by and take a look at it and hang out. And I was like, that's crazy. I don't even know this guy. And he was like, hey, you want to come over and play pinball? My wife's like, ain't that weird? And I was like, it is kind of weird. But the further and longer I was in the hobby, I found myself doing that. Like, you know, if I went to look at a game or something, I'm like, hey, man, if you want to stop by and check this game out that I got, stop by any time and play it and everything. Because, I mean, Tony was the same way with me. He was like, I went to buy a game from him, and he was like, you want to see this and that? And we started talking. And then, you know, same thing with IndiePen. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Larry was just like, is that something? Yeah, didn't know him. He's like, man, just come over and we'll do it. And they're like, it's a hobby. I love that about you. I do. Yeah, I do. I absolutely love it. Like, it was weird at very first. Yeah. But then you just, you find out that people are just passionate, and it's the passion, and it's the love of pinball, and you just want to share it. Like, you want to talk and have fun and play. There's not a hobby like it. Like, car guys aren't like that, I don't think, as much. No? It's, I love, like, it's a, I mean, it's like, I can't explain it. I think it's a social thing, too. You know, the social aspect of playing pinball is exciting. I remember, you know, pinball's not a nostalgic thing for me. Yeah. You know, I'm in my late 30s, but there was pinball around when I was a kid, but honestly, it would take my money. Yeah, that's the way I was. I could last longer in Street Fighter II, you know? So I would play fighting games and stuff like that in the arcades. Yeah. But it's that whole atmosphere, that arcade atmosphere, that was so cool. Yeah. I loved it. I loved it. And this brings back some of that for me. Like I said, even though I didn't play a lot of pinball, hardly ever, I really loved that aspect of pinball. Well, it's good, clean fun. I mean, it's like, what else? I mean, what are you going to have people over to do any other time? I know. It's like, it keeps people occupied. There's no downtime. You can socialize all you want. You can skate a little bit, play a game, go bat. There's nothing like it for sure. Well, you know, it's something weird that I see. People talk about how kids just aren't into pinball. That's total garbage. It's total garbage. I brought that quick draw. I brought that EM to school before one of our concerts, and then the students wanted to play that every single time we had a ball game. Ball things and all the EM, like a quick draw. One kid was like, you know, I had this Xbox One I just got. Would you be interested in that? maybe i'm like was it you that i was talking i was talking to somebody recently it might have been you over at larry's i was talking about i was like you know they keep saying like oh virtual reality and all that stuff the way the vr is is going to kill pinball it's going to put the dimmer but i don't think so i think kids are such in an overload with the like graphics are only going to get so good on xbox everything and then it becomes the norm and you look for something different whereas when we were kids like we saw the progression so rapidly that xbox and stuff grab does. Yeah, sure. Whereas I think kids are going to go back and they're going to kind of ditch some of that and be into this stuff. It's a different hump. It's a different feel than what they're growing up with. Totally agree. I'm telling you, I had so many kids tell me that pinball, they were like, this is just so great. When can we have another time where we can play it? And I can even use it as a reward time. If you guys kill it on this test, I'll give you like, you can have a little tournament. Oh, that's awesome. They thought it was so great. And then, you know, we've had young kids over playing with our kids, and, you know, the adults wind up standing around talking, and the kids are down here blowing up the games. Well, you know what's nice about it, too, is, like, the social aspect. Like, we're so removed on Xbox or anything else. You're socializing, but you're across the country, across the state, C's. You know, so you don't have that personal interaction, Facebook, everything else. This is a hobby that you, it's interaction with another, the social interaction together. You're not separate and I think that's something that people are lacking these days. I agree. That people are going to want and feel. That's going to be the nostalgia of 20 years from now. It's like social interaction together right there. Physical interaction. I agree. It's going to be the nostalgic thing. I remember when we were kids and we used to talk in person. That's going to be the nostalgia. There's a draw to it. Going out and just meeting up with some friends and playing and whatever. Absolutely. absolutely yeah it's just I think it's what movie what movie is it one of the guys is talking about that oh shoot one of the pinball movies oh man help me out what are a couple special when lit yeah special when lit there's one of the guys that ran an arcade talking about I think it was Tim from pinball hall of fame oh okay he was talking about how oh I think I remember he was eight at home and then would go out for their evening yes And now it's vice versa. Right. It's totally flipped. Yeah. You know, and I wonder if we won't see that really coming back. Yeah. Because, well, my wife and I talk about that, you know, and just buying the kids stuff versus going and having experience. Yeah. You know, and I think the experience piece, you know, that's going to start coming back. I agree with you. I think we're moving in that direction. Yeah, and I hope so. I think this is a part of it. I do too. And, you know, really, I mean, it seems expensive going and dropping, because some games are a dollar. Some people have it as a dollar. But really, man, if you take the price of a movie, you can go play pinball for a few hours, you know, 50 cents or a bus. Yeah, and have a good time, and there's more interaction than just sitting there. So it's kind of one of the cheaper things to go do now is go to an arcade or something, you know, which is nice. That's exciting. It's cool to see that happening. Yeah, I agree. Well, I appreciate it, Jason. Thank you so much. Guys, this has been Jason, a.k.a. Hoagie, And, again, thank you so much for letting us in and do the interview, man. Cool. Check us out on Facebook. Check us out on YouTube. And I will be streaming, hopefully, shortly on Twitch. So check us out there. And we'll see you guys later. We got so much bad noise in half our videos with garage and everything. This garage just echoes. You ready? Yeah, sure.