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episode 34 Heat Wave

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 30m·analyzed·Sep 20, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Pinball podcast discusses Stern Avengers LE, Deep Root Raza hype, and John Papadiuk's comeback.

Summary

Tim Cooley hosts episode 34 of The Spinner Is Lit podcast (September 19, 2020) with Brian and Dan discussing recent pinball industry news. Key topics include Stern's newly released Avengers LE (comic-book themed), Deep Root's forthcoming Raza announcement, John Papadiuk's involvement with Deep Root, and the competitive landscape of pinball manufacturing. The hosts express cautious optimism about Avengers while remaining skeptical of Deep Root's claims about faster, cheaper, better production. Jersey Jack Pinball's Guns N' Roses is mentioned as confirmed upcoming.

Key Claims

  • Stern's Avengers LE is already shipping; Pros have been out for a week or two

    high confidence · Tim and Dan discussing current Avengers availability as of mid-September 2020

  • Keith Elwin's first two games are both in Pinside's top ten

    high confidence · Tim referencing Pinside top 100 rankings checked before recording

  • Deep Root has had four designers in three years

    medium confidence · Brian's skepticism about Deep Root's track record and designer turnover

  • John Papadiuk 'fucked the world' and got bailed out three times

    medium confidence · Brian expressing frustration with Papadiuk's history and Deep Root's decision to hire him

  • Norman (designer name partially unclear) left Deep Root

    low confidence · Conversation about designer departures, unclear which Norman and unclear final status

  • There's a rumor Deep Root has a 'hot 80s license in their pocket' but it's not Back to the Future

    low confidence · Tim speculating about unannounced Deep Root IP based on rumor

  • The Avengers movie version pinball game 'plays like crap' with poor shot feel and assembly quality issues

    medium confidence · Tim and Dan criticizing previous Avengers pinball game from Stern (likely earlier version)

  • Keith Elwin promises every game will have a spinner; he only played games with spinners as a kid

    medium confidence · Tim reporting recent interviews with Keith Owen/Elwin

Notable Quotes

  • “Show us the money. Show us the game. Give us the price.”

    Tim Cooley @ ~33:00 — Summarizes core skepticism about Deep Root's vague announcements and lack of concrete product details

  • “Stern is Agent Smith in pinball. Everybody, all these new companies, well, okay, all the new companies that haven't been successful have all said the same kind of crazy stuff.”

    Brian @ ~35:00 — Articulates industry perception of Stern dominance and repeated failed promises from competitors

  • “I'm also very biased because of the damage that that man has done to so many people and the hurt he has put on so many people.”

    Brian @ ~55:00 — Reveals deep personal/professional conflict regarding Papadiuk's past behavior and reputation

  • “If it's a hit, you know, he's pulled it off. He's pulled off the pinball comeback of the century. He's not going to have a hit with that.”

    Brian @ ~58:00 — Expresses extreme skepticism about Papadiuk/Deep Root's ability to succeed with Raza

  • “Always control. Always control, you know. He's not a world champion for no reason.”

    Alex (about Keith Elwin) @ ~18:00 — Characterizes Elwin's championship-level control-focused playstyle as central to his dominance

  • “The way that the shots and stuff work looks really cool and then the progression of the mini wizard modes looks really neat”

    Tim (about Avengers) @ ~13:00 — Positive assessment of Avengers rule design and visual progression based on Jack Danger's stream

  • “We have more pinball companies producing games and getting games into homes and arcades and barcades and pizza places and like that than we've had since the early mid-90s.”

    Tim @ ~63:00 — Reflects broader industry renaissance and market expansion despite competitive pressures

  • “You can't come out with a $6,000 game that looks like a Stern Pro. You've got to come out with either Premium or LE, or you've got to come out with a Stern Pro at a substantially lesser price point.”

Entities

Tim CooleypersonBrianpersonDanpersonAlexpersonKeith ElwinpersonJohn PapadiukpersonRobert MuellerpersonJack DangerpersonAndrei Nassimkovperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern Avengers LE confirmed shipping; Pros shipping for 1-2 weeks as of September 2020

    high · Tim and Dan confirm seeing Stern's photo of first completed LE; Pros already stripped and in circulation

  • ?

    design_innovation: Avengers features limited-flip soul gem mode where flips are finite resource; innovative shot design with multi-flipper ramp access and looping Captain America shot

    high · Detailed discussion of Jack Danger's rule deep dive stream; hosts highlight novel mechanics not seen in recent games

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Keith Elwin cemented as top designer; both of his games (Iron Maiden, Jurassic Park) remain in Pinside top 10 after new game bump period

    high · Tim checked Pinside rankings half hour before recording; hosts note sustained ranking indicates quality, not just hype

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Avengers comic-book version receiving positive sentiment despite initial art skepticism; hosts emphasize rule depth and mechanics overcome aesthetic concerns

    medium · Dan: 'at first I wasn't loving the art...but having seen that thing in action...it does look pretty good'

  • ?

    product_concern: Previous Stern Avengers movie version critically panned as looking great but playing poorly; assembly quality issues and Hulk mech described as 'one of the worst things'

    high · Tim and Brian discuss flaws extensively; Brian notes 'game assembly quality on the ones I've had to deal with is garbage'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.452

0:00
Welcome to the Spinner's Lift Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Cooley. Last episode, episode 34, 12.
0:14
And we're back. Happy September, everybody. It is September 19th. today. 2020. Hey, we're almost through with 2020. Thank God it can't end sooner enough, right? Welcome back to the show. Tonight with me is the round table, the usual...
0:41
Scaling your videos. There we go. At the Kitchen Table Studios. It's Brian who's been soldering, doing some board work last little bit. And we got Dan with us there. And we got Alex who was hard to eat because he is out playing pinball with somebody else. True story. At the shop in Rancho Cordova. At the shop in Rancho Cordova. At Back Today's Cafe. Not there. Over at he's got a little new secret shop. The secret shop. Is it called the secret shop? No. It's kind of in a private place. Oh, okay. Is it a speakeasy? You know a code? It's a pinball speakeasy. I want to go. Dallas will tell you about it next time he is on the air. Yeah, I look forward to having him on, man. Sorry I'm naked tonight, but I got kids too, so I totally understand.
1:35
So, that's alright, man. This board still has the most beautiful job on these jumpers I've ever seen, man. That is true. They did a good job. Not like my board. Because since this is like interweb radio, they can't see. Brian's working on my new Flash Gordon. Well, it's an old board, but he's working on it. But new to me Flash Gordon. So, we're going to talk about that later. There we go.
2:00

Tim @ ~30:00 — Articulates market pricing expectations and differentiation challenge for competitors

Dallas
person
Greg Ongperson
Roger Renoperson
Cassandra Petersonperson
Zombie Yetiperson
Stern Pinballcompany
Deep Root Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Flash Gordongame
Avengers (Stern, comic-book version)game
Avengers (Stern, movie version)game
Raza (Retro Atomic Zombie Arcade Land)game
Guns N' Rosesgame
Iron Maidengame
Jurassic Parkgame
Kitchen Table Studiosvenue
?

industry_signal: Deep Root positioned as serious competitor challenge to Stern; broader market showing most pinball companies since mid-1990s

medium · Tim notes unprecedented number of manufacturers producing games for homes, arcades, barcades since early-mid 90s

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Deep Root rumored to have unrevealed '80s license in development; not confirmed to be Back to the Future; alternative speculation includes Rad, Gleaming the Cube, Thrashing

    low · Tim: 'apparently...they're supposed to have a hot 80s license in their pocket. Right. But now I'm hearing it's not Back to the Future'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Deep Root experienced designer turnover; Norman (last name unclear) left Deep Root; John Papadiuk brought in as designer despite controversial past

    medium · Hosts discuss unclear designer status; Brian notes 'they've had four designers in three years'

  • $

    market_signal: Market expects Premium/LE pricing on new titles; $6,000 Pro-level game difficult to differentiate; competitors face pressure to offer better value or premium features

    high · Tim articulates clear pricing strategy: 'You can't come out with a $6,000 game that looks like a Stern Pro'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin prioritizes spinners and drop targets; promises every game will have spinner based on childhood play preferences

    medium · Tim: 'I've heard...Keith Owen...would only play games with spinners, and he promises every game is going to have a spinner'

  • ?

    content_signal: Jack Danger's rule deep dive stream for Avengers generating significant community engagement and influencing host opinions

    high · Multiple hosts reference Jack Danger stream as primary source for detailed Avengers rule analysis

  • ?

    community_signal: John Papadiuk has damaged reputation within community; Brian expresses strong personal bias against him due to past 'damage' and 'hurt' caused to people

    medium · Brian: 'I'm also very biased because of the damage that that man has done to so many people and the hurt he has put on so many people'

    • He's a miracle. Alright, guys. Have you ever watched the movie? I have never seen the movie. And I almost, I was at Barnes & Metkelhead like two weeks ago. I almost bought it. It was like $5 on Blu-ray. We should do the outside drive-in again. I've got the projector. We need to get the screen. And that's the movie we should watch, man, in honor of your Flash Gordon. Have we talked about your Flash Gordon yet on the show? We were going to do it later, but fuck it, let's do it now. No, no. No, we got it. Has it been a month? Yeah, a little over a month, I think. Oh, yeah, we definitely got to share that. Yeah, so I sold my Devil's Dare because I had an opportunity to pick up Flash Gordon. Feel that one? Because I had the Devil's Dare for a long time. And it's a great game, but it was time to move on to a cool guy named Roger Reno. Hi, Roger, if you're listening. Nice guy. And Greg Ong, righteous student and friend of the show. Shout out to Greg. What up, Greg? He gave me a killer, you know, bro price on the game. You know, the cabinet's faded, but it's solid.
    3:19
    The back glass is near perfect. The strobe works. The play field's got Mylar. It's got some wear spots, very minor, but it's surprisingly, especially for the age of the game, I mean, you know, it's been routed a lot. It's in really nice shape. Needs a little help with the board. Brian's putting some new capacitors and stuff on there for me. We had it working for like 15 minutes. We did. It was glorious. And it flipped great.
    3:45
    Yeah, that was, what, a week and a half, two weeks ago. But we're getting it up and running. So I got another Grail game. I finally got my flash court, and I'm just, like, totally excited and jazzed to have it. Can't wait until we've got it 100% running. It'll be there soon. It'll be there very soon, and we're going to have fun playing it. So, yeah, so I'll just move that up so we moved it up to the front. And we got in the news. We got the news going on. We're just going to go down what's happening. A lot going on right now in pinball. Even with the COVID and everything else, man, the manufacturers are getting the games out the door. Stern's released Avengers based on the comics. It's showing up in arcades? Already. Where's one at, Alex? None that I know of so far around here. My friend Dallas, though, shout out to Dallas, is getting an LE. For home or location? Home. So we're going to Dallas' house to record and play Avengers LE, I assume? Hopefully. Okay. All right. I'll try to talk to him and see. Can you make that happen? I can see, yeah. Okay. You know, I don't want to invite myself in, but I'll definitely see if I can make that happen. Dude, you invited him over here. That was no problem. And I was like, yeah, cool, why not? But, yeah, I'll try to see if I can talk him into doing that. Look, you can come over and play Flash Gordon and Surf Champ and the other games, but we have to go play his Avengers LE. That sounds fair. And you have to do this because you were late. Because you can go to lots of places and play Avengers LE. Where else are you going to come? and play Carhop. Well, that's true. We're going to talk about Carhop tonight, later on. So is there going to be like a new Chris Evans X-rated mod for Avengers? You don't have to see that, but I've heard about it. They're going to replace the gauntlet up in the back. Just a picture of his penis? Well, it's a 3D-molded model. Oh, sweet. And they're available for purchase separately. So they are shipping.
    5:43
    I've heard of mixed... I know the pros have been shipping for a week or two, at least, but I've heard some people say they're already getting LEs. They're doing the LEs first. Because they're trying to get them overseas quicker. They just sent, I saw a picture on Stern's page, was it yesterday or the day before, where they had L1 posing with the first completed LE? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I did too. But I think the pros are already out, right? Yeah, the pros are stripping. Yeah. It's pretty neat to see the picture.
    6:13
    Jack Dangerstream, are we talking about what we think yet? Yeah. Are we going into it? We're still talking about manufacturers. Well, no, but we're talking about Avengers. What do we think? Go, Dan. So, the Jack Danger screams, he did the, what was it, the rule deep dive. Right. Yep. And I thought it looked really, really cool. Like, I got to admit, like, at first, I wasn't loving the art.
    6:37
    It's comic book Avengers. You know, it's not what I think I would have hoped for. I mean, I know it's Zombie Yeti, and he did a great job. But having seen that thing in action just on the stream, it does look pretty good. It looks pretty neat. Yeah. I agree with Dan on that one. Like, I was kind of like, oh, what's it really going to do? Did you watch the stream? Absolutely. Okay. So the way that the rules work, it's got a lot of that fighting game thing going on. Like Deadpool. Right.
    7:06
    But it really makes it, I think, work better than Deadpool did. And Deadpool, I like Deadpool. I thought it was fine. you know guys you guys know I'm not a super huge Deadpool fan and I don't really love the way that this is working in terms of the actual like well you're it's the Avengers versus this person Avengers versus that person but the way that you fight in it actually like the way that the shots and stuff work looks really cool and then the progression of the mini wizard modes looks really really really really neat so I think the rules are going to make this and of course the shots and the mechanisms in it look absolutely fantastic that Captain Marvel shot looks super, super cool, and the Avengers Tower thing looks super, super cool, and wire forms that go back up the play field, that's insanity. We haven't seen anything this cool in a long time. That big fat ramp looks really neat. I think that this is going to be another clear winner for Keith Elwin. Oh, absolutely. The guy just keeps up in his game with every time. He must be on some sort of performance-enhancing drug. He is. Yep. They're all performance enhancers.
    8:10
    That's PPE, you know. It is. Oh! Hey, hey, look at that. It's like Ellen's rocking the PPE. You know, what you said made me think of another direction, which I hadn't really thought of as much, because I was just thinking about the mechs and stuff. We're seeing some really interesting creative innovations. A ramp shot you can hit from two lower and an upper flipper. That's innovation. You know, the shot, the Captain America shot that actually loops back up, goes the other direction, and does basically similar to a really cool Vuk or V-U-K, but you just slam the ball up there with a flipper. Yeah, right. Those are awesome, innovative little things that are really cool and make the game really interesting, neat, and look fun to shoot. A satisfying shot. Because a lot of ram shots lately have been pretty boring. But when you brought up the rules of the fighting game, you made me think of something I hadn't really thought of before that might engage people who are more video game people because it's a rule set that's like, oh, I do this and this and I'm fine. If I make these shots, I win. Kind of like a combo kind of thing. It's kind of glossing into that direction too, which I think is really cool. And then the mode where you get so many flips and you can earn more by making the shot. Right. The soul gem. And that That looked really, really cool. And that actually, you know, looked like, I'm trying to think. Besides Cactus, I don't think I've seen, in Cactus Canyon Continued, there's a limited flips mode. But I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in a game. And that's just another example of how just genius coding is getting it done. You know, like, you know, it requires no mechanisms. It requires nothing special. It just requires them to put in some code. and, you know, the way the mode works is basically when you make your shot, you earn another half dozen flips.
    10:09
    And if you drain, you lose five flips. And that actually, it looked like it was a little bit, it was stressful, but not in time limit stressful, right? Because we were all used to it's like, okay, make this shot, 10 seconds, it's counting down and, you know, you're just like, oh, I got to make this shot, 10 seconds, and you want to slip it through. So this was like that, except for the fact that, you know, you can grab the ball, you can hold the ball, you know, but that's using a flip. And so, like, when you drop the flipper and then shoot it up, that's another flip. So you better make your shot because it just costs you two. Or you can try to play on the fly. But I think that I was listening to an interview with Elwin. He's like, always control. Always control, you know. He's not a world champion for no reason. Always control. You bring up a great point, but you have Andrei Nassimkov, who's also a world champion, who plays completely off the fly. Absolutely. I've seen Andrei. I've played with Andrei at the PPM. Not in a competitive nature, just, hey, you want to jump in on ACDC with me? Hell yeah. Is that what he said? Yeah, well, because we're waiting in line. me and another friend, my boss actually, and he was like, are you guys waiting for ACDC? Oh, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, jump in with me, guys. I'm like, cool. And we played a few games of ACDC with him. Is Andre a hell of a player?
    11:31
    Absolutely. Oh, yeah. He's the champion. He's better than everyone in this table combined squared. Right. Okay. But he ain't that one. That's not pretty math, is it? Yeah, exactly. But he ain't Keith Allen. No, no, no. But I mean, I brought that up because that's interesting dynamic. He's a Tony Stark of pinball now, right? Right. He's a champion. He's a designer. You know, he's done videos. He's a genius. He's got everything under his belt but the podcaster thing. He's not a podcaster. But he does a hell of an interview. Super awesome pinball show. I listened to it on Friday on the drive up to Yonville. And wow, what a great episode. They're doing a great show over there. Oh my god, yeah. Good guys. They get a little bit better every episode. They do. Yonville, California. Not like Yeah, the veterans help. We get a little bit worse. Every episode.
    12:21
    No, no, we're getting better, man. We are. So, yeah, man. I mean, I'm excited to play Avengers. I love the theme. I love, you know, I so wanted to love the movie version. And there's a lot of stuff in there I do like, but there's some things in there where it's just like, it's just cringeworthy. It's not beat around the bush. That game's awful. It is. It looks great, but it plays like crap. I know. I love the way the Black Widow ramp looks. It looks great. It's a great-looking game, but it plays like crap. The shots do not feel clean, and that Hulk mech is one of the worst things. It's a nightmare. It's difficult to work on. The game assembly quality on the ones I've had to deal with is garbage. It is. It's just, it's during their load times, I get it. Yeah, that was a miss. It was just a miss. So I think this remake will definitely make up for it. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, I'd like to talk about with Elwin being the top. You know, Tim, I was just looking to pin side top 100 just probably a half hour before you guys got here. Except for Alex, who was an hour and a half later. You're not going to win. We're going to beat you up for a long time. We love you. All right. You had it coming. Yeah, I did. Okay, so Elwin's first two games are both in the top ten. Yeah. You know. And, well, deservingly so. So it looks like I'm going to go ahead and do it. And they're not even in the top ten anymore in that, like, you know, weird new game bump where every game's number one for a second. Right. You know, like, you know, they're proving that they have, like, you know. Right. And he knows how to use them. There you go. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely cemented his place. I mean, you know, after Iron Maiden, everybody's like, sophomore slump, and Jurassic comes out, and it's killer. and then, you know, I don't hate the theme, but Jurassic Park, second place, great, it was a blast.
    14:20
    Weirdly improved. The theme is not the best, but there's a software hack for it. There is. Go ahead. You brought it up. Yeah, but you can expand on it. So we were last week at Jeff and Courtney's house. We were working, doing some work on their white water for them and just general hanging out in pinball shenanigans. And he did the software hack for Jurassic Park where it inputted scenes and music from the movie. It should have had it from the get-go. Yeah, not just music, not just calls, but actual video from the movie. I saw some video on it. It's so cool. Yeah, it just brings it to 11. You know, they could have made 10 louder, but this one definitely goes to 11. It's awesome. I like that. Right on. Yeah, I can't. I got it. Spinal tap pinball confirmed, guys. I know. I got to play one like that. I got to get over to Jeff and Courtney's. I was supposed to do their service last time it was up, and I had one of my other guys do it because I was bogged down and stuff. Yeah, I got to get over there, too. I left my fuse breaker. Yeah, well. Shout out to Jeff and Courtney. We probably eventually got to figure out why that flash was locked on. I already know why.
    15:36
    So, Avengers, man. I mean, we're all excited to play it, and there's so much good in that, you know, as usual. Live show, music, ruleset. The music sounds pretty cool. The spinning disc that lifts up in the premium LE. That's so cool. I know people are giving a lot of garbage about it because of the spinning thing. Usually, it can block shots and stuff like that. And it does. But, that's random. That's pinball. If you want a game where you get the same repeatable pattern over and over and over, go play video games. Right. In addition, I mean, it's not exactly new, but I mean, how about the return of a real subway? Right. Yeah, that's beautiful. You know, the ball goes in one place, comes out another, and it's translucent, and you can see the ball go through it. It's really, really cool. Not to mention the other ramp on, you know, on a wire-form ramp on the right side, too. Yeah, the Captain Marvel shot. Yeah. The vertical. It goes, whoo-hoo! And when you talk about the subway, and this is really minor, but it's cool and it's harking back to the glory days. A star rollover at the top. Yeah, I like that too. Which hasn't been done, well, hasn't been done for a long time. Walking Dead used it. But then Walking Dead used it, yeah. And that was exciting to see. You know, not to go back to Walking Dead, we talk about it a lot, but really, you know, interesting in a different way. Oh, wow. And kind of a harking back, but, you know, cool. And, you know, I've heard a couple of interviews with Keith Owen lately. When he was a kid, he would only play games with spinners, and he promises every game is going to have a spinner.
    17:12
    Yay. I love spinners. And then drop targets. And the drop targets, you play the bingo game. And then you get. The three in a row. And then you get whatever that it can be, a bonus multiplier or something else. Cool. Another really cool, neat game feature. But you've got to knock down all the targets, so it locks that one. When you hit one, it locks it in, but then to earn it, you've got to knock down the other. Like Fight Bingo. More like Kick-Tack-Toe.
    17:41
    Yeah, they're not as low and ridiculous to hit as the Walking Dead ones. Oh, God, I need to go there. Yeah, the same with Game of Thrones, man. Yeah. Those are too low. Those are like the ones on the lower right-handed taxi. I can't see those half the time Because they're a bear to hit They're a bear to hit and I can't see them Because they're too short I just gotta know they're there But yeah man I can't wait to play it and get my hands on it Or pro, even the pro The pro looks great too It does look great and it looks like a lot of fun Even though it doesn't have the extra features I'd still say it's a good buy You know You're getting into the territory with that game though where it's like you're getting so much extra cool stuff that it's really hard for me to say, oh yeah, man, don't get the Pro. Don't get the Premium. The Pro is fine. Well, Alistair were talking about that on Friday. They were.
    18:45
    That's our prediction. We both agreed on it. It's like ACDC is going to be a game where the Premium sells more. It sells more than the Pro. How often do you see an ACDC Pro out there? Same with Stranger Things. We talked about Stranger things having the same thing too. Right. Because there's so much more in the game that it's worth the extra money. Which I was playing the Pro 2 today earlier, by the way.
    19:08
    Oh, were you? Yeah, I was. Okay. For me, the ultimate example is... Sorry about that. Go ahead. No, it's okay, man. Black Knight. Oh, yeah. I know people swear by the Pro, but I can't get over not having the upper playfield, not having the third flipper, not having the ball lock mechanism. It's got to be there. It's a game that justifies the extra expense.
    19:32
    You know. Stranger Things, we'll talk more about that soon, because we both got to spend some good time on a trick-out premium. But yeah, I can see why you spend the extra money.
    19:44
    Because it's cool. Right. Oh, and just a complete side note, and I don't have it in my notes, but real quick shout-out before I forget it again. Happy birthday to Elvira, Mr. Cesar. Cassandra Peterson. Cassandra Peterson, 69 years old, I believe, yesterday. And, wow, she looks great. Absolutely. Fantastic.
    20:06
    I mean, I'm, you know, what, 14 years younger than her, and I look like the Crypt Keeper, man. Let's all be rude to the Crypt Keeper. Yeah, really? All right. Okay, anyway, so happy birthday to Cassandra Peterson, who, you know, is no doubt not listening to this show. Look, if she's inhaled as much bug poison as you have, she'd look like you two. Well, there you go.
    20:29
    Are we pretty much through with talking about Avengers? Moving on to the next? I think it's on to the next. Alright, Deep Root. I'm very excited for Deep Root. So Monday, they're going to be announcing the official announcement of Raza, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventure Land. Which, I'm at a loss here guys, because they showed Okay, the prototypes. What, 10 months ago?
    21:01
    Yeah, I don't care about the game. I got to see what's in it. Because they've been talking a long time about they're going to do something that no one else has done. They're going to do it in a better way. They're going to be better, faster, cheaper. The whole works. So now it's like, okay, we saw your prototype. We know the title. We've seen the art. show us the money.
    21:29
    Show us the game. Give us the price. And I think that that is where Deep Root is going to live or die. They need to put it up. Yeah, exactly. They need to put it up. Like, now is the time. You can't come out with a $6,000 game that looks like a Stern Pro. You know, you've got to come out with either a $6,000 game that looks like a Stern Premium or LE, or you've got to come out with a Stern Pro at a substantially lesser price point with some extra cool features.
    21:58
    That's been Robert's claim from the get-go. We're going to do it better, we're going to do it faster, and we're going to do it cheaper, and we're going to do more. And so far, nothing.
    22:13
    You basically said everything I've been talking about and thinking for a while. I really can't add to that except to say it reminded me of The Matrix. Okay? Like with the agents. Stern is Agent Smith in pinball. Everybody, all these new companies, well, okay, all the new companies that haven't been successful have all said the same kind of crazy stuff. Like, Highway, you know, we're going to make 800 million games next year, and we're going to do this, and we're going to do that. Not nearly. Like, look, Deeproot, or Robert Mueller from Deeproot, is the king of saying, making outrageous claims. and I agree with you. I just want to know, okay, look, how much you have a game? How much are you selling it for? We kind of already know what's in it, but they're talking about under the playfield, rotisserie chicken or whatever.
    23:06
    Rotisserie chicken. Well, how do we do the same thing? Well, we'll make another, you know, and then we're the first. An interchangeable playfield. It's like, stop reinventing the wheel. We want a good game with good gameplay, good features, somewhat reliable and it's like, well, nobody knows for sure, but I keep hearing about this Rotisserie play-thru. That's great. You're selling a brand new game that's an unlicensed theme that will most likely rarely be seen in an arcade or a public setting. It'll be in people's homes. So my question is, and you're going to do it better, and it's going to be better than anybody else, why would you even need to ever open up the live on that game for at least a year. Well, because it's a pinball game. They use stern coil stuff. There you go.
    23:58
    Hey-o! But these are my points, and right now it's all speculation. We don't know anything. And they've had four designers in three years.
    24:07
    I want to see something, and I want to see something because how many do you think they're going to sell a Raza? I don't think they're going to sell many. It's an unlicensed team that not many people want. It's not going to have broad spectrum appeal. You want broad spectrum appeal, you know, everybody's talking about it, has talked about it, won't shut up about it. Back to the Future, you know, that would have broad spectrum appeal. Because there's so many fans of that franchise, they'll sell hotcakes if the game's happily decent. Well, the rumor still is, I mean, apparently, you know, it's been seen, but they're supposed to have a hot 80s license in their pocket. Right. But now I'm hearing it's not Back to the Future. Who knows? Look, I'm excited, too. and I'm really I didn't say back to the theater there's a lot of great 80s things yeah yeah Juni's is another one that I've heard but you know Rad I would actually get excited about that as dumb as that movie is awesome it's awesomely dumb or doubly awesome I love Rad that's anyway sorry didn't mean to drag down off topic no you're on top Gleaming the Cube there you go with Christian Slater you have to do Thrashing instead because that's Josh Brolin which would tie in again with Avengers exactly fight off Avengers. And Grooties. So, six degrees to Josh Brolin. Done.
    25:24
    But, you know, I'm rooting for Deep Roots. We all are. I want to see them come up with something that's going to blow my socks off and get me excited in the Pantle region. I really do need some, I mean,
    25:39
    Stern's cranked out a couple good ones in a row. I think that, you know, there might be the theory that like, they're stepping on their own toes now with the Ninja Turtles. Avengers 1, 2 Punch. But I think Stern has proven they have long enough runs and they can keep games going long enough that they'll sell plenty of both of those.
    25:55
    I wouldn't be in a big hurry to release a title right now. Apparently it's the way it's happening. No Chicago Expo, so everyone's ready to make their announcements in a No Chicago Expo world. So here we go, you know. Right. And are they even going to have a game ready for sale? We don't know. Well, from the shit that they're talking, they ain't going to announce until it's ready to go. Right?
    26:21
    Two and a half, almost three years in a game that Papa Duke was working on for God knows who, how long. Right, but they haven't announced ready. Is it ready to go? Yeah. And you've got, you know, and you've got, you know, Norman when he was there was doing something while he was there. Is he not there? No, he left. He went to Deep Root. No, he wasn't at Deep Root. He's left Deep Root. Oh, he has now. That's, yeah, and that's pretty well confirmed. Jersey Jack? Nobody knows. He's just, he's out there in the... Freelancing. We don't know.
    26:55
    He's still with Beaver. Isn't he having health problems? He was, well, he was. He did test positive for COVID. Yeah, and a few years ago, he was battling cancer, so... And then, I had his name on tip my tongue. He was at our last Golden State. Really nice guy. And I forgot he was there. No, but that's some old school guys. They had some... I don't remember. They had some super famous artists. They had some super famous sound guys. They got an all-star. That would be the game. Yeah, they've got a table of good people. It's all about what J-Pop does.
    27:39
    Everybody's ready for the J-Pop. I'm not. I could care less. I think Roz is a dog. Everybody wants a J-pop. It does not impress me, not in a slice. All he's done is borrow from every other game.
    27:53
    All the other circus carnival games that have come out in the last 40 years. Everybody wants a J-pop. You know, I'm not impressed with it at all. Spencer's like, so you designed a pinball machine. That don't impress me. No doubt, right? Yeah, it don't. I mean, no, look, man, I mean, after all the talking and bravado, I was expecting, you know, I was expecting him to levitate and, you know, pay your fortune. So, um.
    28:19
    It says you're a dollar shorter. I told you that. There you go. It's like, you're going to regret spending $10,000. And I'll be honest, man. Right. Yeah, right. I'm also very biased because of the damage that that man has done to so many people and the hurt he has put on so many people. Everybody got paid back. Not yet. Lots of people still haven't got their games yet. The people staying in have still not gotten their games. What are you talking about? The Raza. Well, no, Raza hasn't been sold yet. But I'm saying there's still a lot of people. Because the games aren't out yet. But, I mean, like I said, you know, Deep Root made good.
    28:55
    As crazy as that sounds. Well, they did. They paid people money. They paid people back and told them that they'd get a game. Right. They haven't dicked anybody yet. No, they haven't. You've got to give them all the credit in the world. I do. He's talked some shit. He's marketing the hell out of them stuff. He's got us all wondering what he's going to do. Mission accomplished. He's got Papaduke. And again, everybody hated John Papaduke. They did. John Papaduke fucked the world and then somehow talked someone into bailing him out.
    29:25
    Great. Good job. Three times. Now, let's see what he's got. Show me what you've got. Because here's the thing, man. If it's a hit, you know, he's pulled it off. He's pulled off the pinball comeback of the century. He's not going to have a hit with that.
    29:45
    You never know. It's just – anyway. Yeah, look, my opinion. What's that word? Hey, but you know what? If you guys want to send me – We're not authorities. We're just talking shit. We're just talking shit, right. Look, if John Papaduke or Robert Ewan wants to send me a free play field, I will hammer test that. I'll do it with Defender 12-gauge rounds. There is a rifle slug packed behind three rounds of double-aught buck. Let's see how badass your playtools really are. And if it holds up to that, I'll buy every game you make and I'll be the first guy in line. Let's take the Pepsi challenge, boys. Anyway,
    30:23
    you know, I do wish I was. That sounds like a waste of some good ammunition. Damn. You know, it's like, let's see how durable these things really are. Wow, now you like me now. This car is mine.
    30:36
    Hey, man, this is like you from the Black Lagoon. No, and I, you know, in all seriousness, I do, I want them to succeed. I want more pinball. I want more pinball companies that are doing well because we have more pinball companies producing games and getting games into, you know, homes and arcades and barcades and pizza places and like that than we've had since the early mid-90s. And that's a wonderful thing, especially right now with so much not great going on in the world. Are we done talking about Deep Root? I have nothing else to say. No, I don't really either. Okay. Other than I'm looking forward to Retro Atomic Raza. Yeah. I missed a connector on your board, so I've got to repower it, so I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, you're fine. I feel bad. Okay. Oh, do you need the connector? Not right now. I don't need the connector. I need the electricity. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. I've got to pull batteries. Tell me what you've got. I like what you've got. JKP, Guns N' Roses. We know it's coming. Do we? I keep hearing it's not Guns N' Roses now. It's coming. I saw an ad. They did a teaser trailer ad where it's just, they mentioned it was something music like, you know, the next great hit. Calliope.
    31:52
    The next great hit from Jersey Jack Pinball coming in October. So the next great hit or the next greatest hit or something like that. that's a teaser for Guns N' Roses. It's just Guns N' Roses, I admit, I'm going to want it. I want to see it. Well, I'd better get it. He's probably designing it, so I'm sure he's getting one. It's the second game from Eric Muner.
    32:14
    And it'll get a big push because everybody's, you know, everyone's still a little fanatic for Pirates. Everyone feels like they missed the boat on that. They did miss the boat because so many people sat on it when they were sitting in warehouses and they couldn't get rid of them. And then people finally got a chance to play it went, holy moly, this is an awesome game. And it's like, FOMO's going to be huge on this one because they don't want to screw up again because Pirates is such, and we've all played it a lot because we all have the same friend group of, you know, we have two sets of friends that have the game, and it's amazing. It's a great game, man. You know, and I mean, that's an out-of-the-park game. Sure has some stumbling blocks, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited about it, and I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to flip it. It's going to be epic because look, Jack doesn't put out crap.
    33:05
    Yeah. I mean, all of his games have found their way. Even Pirates, or not Pirates, but Hobbit, which a lot of people felt like it was kind of shaky at the beginning. But then they figured it out and it's a good game. It's a fun game. I, you know, I want it to be Guns N' Roses. I want it to be really cool.
    33:26
    So I'm hoping for good things, man. I love the old Guns N' Roses. I owned it. Brian owned it for a long time. We both put a lot of games through it.
    33:37
    I like Guns N' Roses personally. You know, it gives me those old school music feels, so it'd be cool. I have a Metallica in my garage right now. I'm borrowing it from Sparky.
    33:51
    Yeah, it's a Spark, man. I'm really, really enjoying that game, but I got to admit, you know, it's like it would be really, really cool to have a Guns and Roses, and a new Guns and Roses. Because as good as the Data East one is, especially for its moment, you know, it's a fairly basic game. It's a product of its time. The sound isn't as good as it could be today. The sound of that game from 1994 is fucking great. It is from 94. The sound of that game is awesome. I know you're When Mike Hozier bought mine, I sent him home with this massive subwoofer. I told him, hey, hook that up because it sounds really good on it. I think he finally hooked it up and admitted it sounds really good with that sub. You don't need to do pin sound or anything like that. Just a powered sub on that game, and it sounds great. I love the multi-ball start where it goes into night train. I think it's so good. That's one of my favorite Guns N' Roses songs, oddly enough. And when I'm at bat trains, I sing on that bat trains. Right on.
    34:51
    Shout out to Justin. to Fat Train, man. Because when I think Fat Train, I think Night Train. At least his name isn't like Brown Train, because then it would be Brown Snow. For our next episode, it'll be out. We'll be talking more about it. But it's coming. I mean, we're a week out from October. Show us what you got. Show me what you got. Show us the money. Time to get twisty. There you go.
    35:16
    Not a lot more to talk about it, because we haven't seen anything yet. This is a small item, but it's an important item. Chicago Gaming Company's got another small batch run of Attack from Mars remake. So if you missed out, they're running more. And you can get one new in box. You can get the standard or the... What's the next up in the standard? The collector special edition and L.A. Yeah, the L.A.'s are gone. So you get the special edition with the color display, or you can get the standard, which I think has an orange display. Okay, you can get a brand new in the box, Attack from Mars Remake, for $6,000 still. You know, plus tax and shipping and like that. Talk to your local distributor, look online.
    36:05
    Don't email me on that one, because I don't know. But you can email me about a lot of other stuff at thespinnerislit at gmail.com. So if you want to know what Spencer thinks about cuties on Netflix, FBI. Oh, damn. That's rough. Have not, will not see it.
    36:23
    Yeah, that's just wrong on so many levels. But it's funny because Brian did it, and he makes me laugh. You only know, like, new hit from JJP. Yeah, right. Drop your nose, back to work. Oh.
    36:39
    Wow. Wow, we're going deep tonight. Yes, we are. So if you're one of the two listeners out there and you're offended. Actually, our numbers have been pretty good. Just better as wet.
    36:50
    earmuffs and we can say whatever we want. There you go. Yeah, no, actually, yeah, our numbers are doing... Yeah, I like our numbers. Join the dozen of... Join the circus. Join the dozen of Spinner's listeners.
    37:04
    That's it. You know what? Our listeners, the small group that we do have, it's more than a few dozen. It's a dozen and a dozen. There you go. Yeah, it's a few hundred, and they're very loyal. And thank you to all you wonderful listeners. Probably because we hang out with all of you. Dutch Pinball. Or they're dead. I thought, honestly, I thought Dutch Pinball was dead very long ago, but they're continuing to slowly trickle out new games and get early adopters their games finally. And I heard that they actually got ads out that they looking to hire more people and continue to get the Big Lebowski games out to folks So my hand's off to you, man. Bravo. I know. If you need a marketing person, I have a marketing degree, and I can probably offend every single one of your customers if needed. Man, anyone who's sticking with Jeff's pinball, they better have a hell of a sense of humor.
    38:01
    But I got to say, man, they haven't. have they made all of their customers right? Not yet. They better. Right. But I got to give them kudos that they're getting games out. They better not be selling shit until they've, you know, paid all those people who've invested money. Everyone's gotten their amount. I agree. You know, that's all heartily. I think that's a given. Yeah. Like, I know the situation happened with the, you know, the lawsuit and having to pay back the manufacturer and all that, you know, and the coin taker games. Okay, great. You know, that sucked. But, like, you know, okay. Ball's in your court now, guys. You know, you got to pull it off like, you know, fucking why don't you go do J-Pump's Baby Daddy. Right.
    38:46
    Yeah, I just think I'd give that up in case people weren't aware. They are actually still around. They're building games very slowly, but they are building and continuing to get them shipped out. We have a local arcade, not fairly local, that's going to be getting a Lebowski. Flipper Room. Flipper Room, yeah. Yeah. You know, so I mean... What's their status? The Flipper Room is open by appointment only. Okay. So I don't know what their website is, but, you know, we're there. I can see their chat to find out what the limit on people is. Yeah, Mike is determined. You know, he put a message out there. The message was widely misconstrued. He said, hey, I'm still in it to win it. We're still getting games. We're still making it happen. God bless you. So, you know, great. I mean, it would suck to lose someplace as cool as the Flipper Room, and we're losing a lot of places as cool as the Flipper Room. Right. But for Northern California, I mean, it was one of the coolest places to play. Free gold watch. They don't take no prisoners. No. It's like no retreat, no surrender. God bless you, fellas. And ladies that are doing it. And if you're still doing it and you're fighting hard, reach out to me. Let me know how I can help. I mean, I know, put money in the games. Let me know, man. I'm on my way. They survived that fire off of Pier 47 a couple weeks back. I'm so happy to hear that because that is one of the, on the West Coast, it's one of the last few places like that since we lost 20-0 at the beach.
    40:22
    And so God bless those guys. I hope they are able to weather the storm because that is an institution. If you've never been to San Francisco and been to the, is it Pier 33?
    40:34
    Pier 45, I think. It's right near the USS Pampanito. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The submarine, right. Yeah, look for the old World War II submarine, USS Pampanito, and it's the Museum de Mechanique. Did I say that right? Museum de Mechanique. Yeah. The place is great. They've got some new and old pinball machines, a bunch of classic video games, and just a slew of old mechanical and electromechanical games and oddities. Things like the boxing game.
    41:06
    They have stuff with – You'll never see anywhere else. Puppet theaters, all kinds of – Puppet theaters. They have the Matchbox Carnival the guy made. Yeah. They have one of those original pitching bats in the really odd cabinet that goes by 50 grand. Yes. They have one of three laughing sows left from Thailand at the beach.
    41:26
    They've got a midway shooting gallery with the vacuum gun where they actually shoot projectiles. A ton of great stuff. It all has to be cuts and kept and upkept. They are on Facebook, and every once in a while they post some of the stuff. You have to know how to do to repair these things. And I don't care how good you are in pinballs or anything like that. There's stuff in there. You've got no leather working. Yeah. You've got to know. It's one of those little things I'm like, bellows. He's very talented. Yeah, they have leather bellows that operate things. Yeah, it's incredible. It's one of those things where if I lived close by and they were willing, I'd love to go in there and just volunteer, just to learn how to do it. Right.
    42:05
    So port places like that, like if you're on the Midwest, it's in the Midwest, Minnesota, right? Is that me? No, no, no. Oh, yeah.
    42:15
    Marvin's Mechanical. They're having a hard time because of the COVID situation. So if you're in that area, man, visiting or please support them. Because those are real treasuries of American coin-off amusements. And if they go away, they go away forever. Once they're gone, like our beloved Playa Land, not as the beach, they don't come back. So please, please, please, if you can, you know, if you can, support them just by, send them a friendly email, send them five bucks. If you can get there, put five or ten bucks in the machines or whatever you can do. Buy a t-shirt, buy a coffee mug, whatever. Support those places.
    42:58
    Before we go on a trip report, I'm going to sidestep and this is a little weird, but just an observation. I'm alone in my truck a lot. A lot of great stuff coming out. Lots and lots and lots of great games.
    43:11
    Themes, okay, like with Stern, okay, since okay, we had what? Black Knight Sword of Rage, which was a continuation of the Black Knight series. We're all excited. We love it. But it was a throwback, and that's cool. And then they did the new Obira. Cool. Third of the series. I still haven't played that yet. Can't wait to play it. You guys said it's phenomenal. It's sound. It's very sound. Yeah, and it's getting super high ratings, and people seem to love the game.
    43:43
    And then we had Ninja Turtles, which they added to Out of East Ninja Turtles, which we're going to talk about a little bit in another segment, which we did last month, which is the Time Capsule. Jurassic. And then with Jersey Jack, Pirates, and now Guns N' Roses. Avengers. Avengers again. So where my concern lies is if you look in the last year and a half, how many games have not been redone themes that have been done with the game previous by the same or another company in the last 20-ish years or so? I mean, we had Stranger Things. That's the only one I can think of. And then, like, Spooky Rick and Morty and Hot Wheels from American, which Hot Wheels continues to do well. Guardians, obviously. Guardians is, what, two and a half years ago?
    44:35
    But, yeah, I mean, if you look, there's a vast majority of the new games coming out in the last year and a half or so that have been, that are you know,
    44:45
    revisiting of a theme that was made into a pinball machine within the last 25 years. More innovative game now. More innovative, new stuff, great game, because let's be honest, the original Ninja Turtles wasn't that fantastic of a game. It hit the mark for its theme at the time. But, I mean, it's like, are we getting into a rut here, guys? No. They're following the entertainment industry.
    45:10
    That's true. Kind of simple. Remake, remake, remake. I know. And in movies, it makes me want to scream. They're all good with it. I don't like it either. I don't like it either, but the fact of the matter is they're banking off that already built-in market.
    45:25
    And risk-wise, being risk-averse for them is a smart thing to do. Right. They can't afford to have a bunch of flop or low-stomping games. So they're going to, going after that market that already has a built-in market base makes sense. Does that mean we're going to enjoy it? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But market-wise, money-wise, it makes sense. If they were Williams in 93 or 94 and like, oh, heck with it, man. We're doing this movie. We're going to do a game for Johnny Mnemonic. It doesn't matter if it only sells 7,000 units because we're going to have other games that's going to sell 15. It's all going to even out. Right. They can't make that poor decision. So it makes sense. You make up such a great point, man. You sold me. I mean, that's a very valid point. I mean, I'm liking everything that I'm seeing, but I just, I don't want it to become, you know, stale, I guess. You got to kind of also realize that the fans 20 years ago of Ninja Turtles were a different subset than the fans today, right? Like, it was the same people, but they were kids. now you want to send Ninja Turtles to a bunch of dudes in their 40s you give them something that made them feel good when they were 10 no you're absolutely right Jurassic Park there's a reason it was Jurassic Park instead of Jurassic World you know a lot of us remember going to the theater seeing Jurassic Park being blown away it's amazing oh my god look at that dinosaur it was so real I was scared and then three months later you're Rico's Pizza and they have the game and it shakes Well, I mean, I still say that Day to East Jurassic Park was, it was one of those games that back in the 90s, like, really lured me off of Street Fighter and back to pinball. It had the shaker motor. It had the gun handle. It had the dinosaur that ate the ball. It had the raptor kicker. It had the movie soundtrack with all the sound bites. It had the smart missile thing. I mean, I was like, this game is frigging great. And, you know, that really got me to stop playing Samurai Shodown and all those other games for a while and start NBA Jam. I mean, I wasn't really a big sports gamer, but NBA Jam was a cool game. I played the shit out of it on Super Nintendo.
    47:40
    But yeah, man, it was just one of those things, right? Where it's just like... And they were everywhere, too. Yeah, and they hold a pile. Yeah. That game did really well for them. Now you look at JP... This is going to make noise, by the way. Now you look at Jurassic. Yeah, this is off in You guys are about to hear board work in action. Listen to that. That's not his vibrator. That's his disordering iron.
    48:07
    It's my run, Jeremy. Well, maybe a little of both. How do you like that thing? Is it good? Oh, yeah. I love this thing. Is it better than the pump one? Because people are like, oh, use the pump one. The pump's good for what it is. And I still use mine on heavier duty, more robust components. Like, if I don't want to, if I'm doing a bridge rectifier and I don't want to bust this thing out, because it has a lot more leeway for the heat. It's great. But for small items like chips and stuff like that, you can't beat this thing. Yeah. You've got to have it. Yeah. So for chips or for any of that, you want to use like a desoldering pump, not just like a desoldering gun, iron, whatever. Well, if you've got 300 extra bucks and you do board work, it's very choice. I highly recommend it. I don't have one because I have Brian, but I want one. I hope Price has one. I'm sure Price has one. Price doesn't have anything. They're gone. All they have are fries. They don't even have that. Have you been by the Sacramento Fries? It's gone. I drive past there every day. It's gone. I was going to say, I went by there not too far back, and that place looked like it was out of business. Southern High. I went by six months ago. After they got kind of looted and vandalized during the oh-so-lovely after-hours protests, all the stuff, they got boarded up, and all the stuff went to Roseville. And the Bay Area ones, a lot of the stuff went to the Roseville store, including a lot of the props. The one thing that didn't go there was the giant Tesla coil out of the Fremont one. There was a guy in the Reddit group posted about it. He was like, oh, where's the giant Tesla coil? Is it there? And he said, no, it's not. It's missing. I'm sure a big wig has it somewhere. But it's not in any of the stores. That makes me feel bad because I worked at the Sacramento one, like, when it drained open and it sucked. So I don't have any love lost for fries. But that was an incredible universe. That was a cool place. a really, really cool play. It used to be pretty cool for me when it was Fries, when they were actually doing something. But yeah, man. But yeah, Jurassic was a great game. You know, Black Knight, you know, obviously, super meaningful game, you know, means a lot to a lot of people. You know, it was something to go back to, but I mean, obviously, Black Knight didn't get that, you know, mainstream audience. Ninja Turtles is the masterstroke. Like, how genius is it to go to Ninja Turtles? Avengers is Avengers, but it's not the same Avengers. It's not the MCU Avengers. Right. You know, but it is a popular franchise. It is recognizable. I mean, I haven't heard people, you know, like, oh, why would we have the movie Avengers like the Deadpool people were? But, you know, like I said, it makes a lot of sense to go back to the well. Yeah, no. You guys sold me on it. You make great points. I think it's great, too. I've just, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm like, okay, is this going to, you know, is this going to end up becoming a stagnation or something. As long as they're bringing the heat on the playfield, it doesn't bother me that they're going with the safe theme. I'll admit, when they announced the new Avengers and they were showing the art, the initial pictures, I looked at it and I was like, well, first of all, some of those Ramsey shit looked cool. But, I don't care. I mean, I, when I was reading comics, I was reading X-Men, you know. I was reading Punisher. I wasn't reading Avengers. Avengers sucked. Like, Avengers didn't get popular until the movies came out and made it popular. I read them back in the late 70s, early 80s. Well, you know. That's because you're an angel. Well, that's true. And X-Men didn't get good until around then.
    51:35
    Why not? I read both, you know. You know. So, why would you? You think you're going to do X-Men versus the Avengers? I don't know. They've done X-Men versus the Avengers. Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Moon Knight, you know. Anyway. Apparently they are supposed to be doing a Marvel series, like a Disney Plus series or something. Moon Knight. I hope they do. It's one of my favorites. Moon Knight is great because he's a crazy Batman. Yeah.
    51:58
    I used to have the original run, I had every issue mid the original run. Mark Spector. I had the entire collection from issue one because when he first came out, my dad saw his bookstore and I would get every new issue. And I don't have it anymore. But anyway. And Daredevil would be sweet, too. I'm one of ten people who liked the original Daredevil movie. Dude, how great was that Netflix show? It was good. It killed it. See, Alex, this is why the pump's great. And it literally fell out. That's outstanding. All right. That's what we call a pinky dropper. We are on to trip report. We went on a lot of other stuff. That's okay. Because we talked about a lot of good stuff. And, yes, I'm looking forward to a Moon Knight TV show. We went out. All four of us, thanks to Alice who set it up. Alice is our champ.
    52:52
    We went out and played a Ninja Turtles Pro. Where did we go? We went to Computer Booter. Computer Booter in Fair Oak. Carmichael. Carmichael, California. Look it up. Google it. I can't really address.
    53:06
    Fair Oak's Boulevard in Carmichael, California. If you're a retro gamer, this place is Nirvana. They have games and systems all the way back to what, original Atari and everything going forward? Hell of a store. They have free water. It's like the what do you call that? Like we have at our office. Alhambra. And there's fresh cups there. You can have free water. And you can browse around. They do computer repair. they're just the nicest guys in the world and coincidentally they had a brand new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that Alex was beating the shit out of yeah showing it who the boss was we had a blast playing it about to play they've got the most updated code in it and they're not open on weekends they're only open Monday through Friday So look him up. If you're in the Sacramento area and you want to play Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, it's there. Is it on PinballMap yet? Yes, it is. I put it on there. CheckPinballMap.com. It's on there. And on Pinsight. And what was the guy's name? David Rayner. And then he had his helper whose name I forget was really cool, too. Yeah. David is just a really... He's friends with Alice and Chris, too. Yeah, outgoing, very welcoming guy.
    54:39
    I mean, just really, just a really cool dude. Yeah, we need to follow up with those guys. We do. We need to follow up. Our first pinball. Yeah. Found them up there. Really easy. Chris and Dallas delivered it to them. Yeah, let's plan another trip out there and, you know, maybe bring some pizza or something with us and have a good time.
    54:58
    Ninja Turtles is fun to play. The animations, I thought, were really cool. And there were a couple, well, Brian brought his boys in, and there was another young lady there, I guess her age would be 8 to 10. She seemed to really be enjoying it. I could see just like watching the animation. I think it was the daughter of one of the guys. Okay, yeah, one of the guys. I think she was the daughter of the guy. Okay. Real sweetheart. She was having a good time. She was having fun playing with everybody. She stopped from watching people play. Yeah, and I thought, wow, they've hit it out of the park because they're getting kids' interest because I'm watching the display and going, man, if I was a little kid, I would think this is the coolest thing ever. And it is really cool. The artwork's great on it. Zombie Yeti again.
    55:42
    Yeah. John Borg design. If I had a critique. Borg, Dwight, and Yeti. What a combination. The rule set's really cool. You know what's weird? I don't really like the button masher on most of the new games, but I like the pizza collector one. That was fun to me. And it's to say it was a TIE Fighter collector. Pretty much just a TIE Fighter. For some reason, the Pizza One's more fun than me. Well, you know why? Because Star Wars is shit. That game is terrible. I agree. Ticket prices are down so I can pay the money. And if anybody wants to sell me their premium for $4,000... You'll take the hit. Email us at thespinnerslit.com. Dan will take one for the team. I'll help you. But, no, Ninja Turtles is cool. Alex and I got to spend quite a bit of time, quite a few games, on the premium when we were at Reno. Yeah. And so we've gotten to see the difference. What is that app? Press Start. That's what it's at. Press Start. They're staying open on a, what would you call it? It's more like you paid admission and then you're on free play. Now the bar's back open there as of this Thursday. So are they back to quarter drop? No, they're going to continue to do the $10 free play, and kids are allowed until 6, 7, 10. Because I put an easy 20 games on Ninja Turtles for $10. but it's probably another dozen games. Even with the bar open. And if you want to have adult time, well, it is Reno. If you want to have adult time, you go after 7. I like it. But, yeah, game-wise, it's not so much better. I mean, I don't know if you concur, but I don't think it's so much better that I would have to have a premium. Like, it's cool. The diverter thing wasn't working perfectly, but I saw you using it to some effect. It's like building up a jackpot on monsters, is what it is like. Okay. What you're doing is the left ramp, you're building to a glider value. Okay. The right ramp, you're collecting it. Okay. So that's what the kind of glider is. I was just trying to use it to set up shots and failing super miserably, so I just started ignoring it. That's what it kind of is.
    57:53
    It kind of reminds me of Furball a little bit on Shadow. Right. but the Furbon Shadow, it works completely differently. The idea is to hit all of the shots so that you can get into vengeance and to basically set up your next shot and to hit the combos. And see, that's kind of what I thought Ninja Turtles was going to work like, but it sounds like they have a little bit different approach. And it was cool. The two-direction spinning disc, I don't think I really noticed too much effect from that. Nope. The spinning disc is a really cool toy. The way that it loads up for multi-balls, starts flipping the balls around. That is really cool because... Yeah, that's like X-Men. And the party van that, like, shoots the balls out, it's... Whatever, I don't think it really made any difference at all. Were there any other differences? Oh, there's the little hopping crane, which, who cares? You know, I think that... You got that on the Pro, too. I think for that game, you're just as well off with the Pro. When we played the Pro, you brought up a great point because I kept wondering, when I saw the video and the upper left flipper went up to direct the balls onto this figure for multiball. I was like, do you have to hold the flipper up? Like, oh, no, it goes up automatically. Oh, okay, then it's even better. Right. Like, because I don't know what I had in my head. Oh, you got to hold it up. No, no. And six ball multiball on a pro model. Yeah. How cool is that? My only real bad critique is just I suck at playing. It is a, you know, you look at it, and you don't think it's going to be that hard of a game. Like, the shots are pretty far up the play field and whatnot. It is sneaky fast. Like, the ball will just, and I was playing with Alex and Mark Stockton, two good players and me, and the ball was flipping by all of us. Not so much Alex, because he's got them 26-year-old reflexes. But, yeah, man, I was just like, God, this team really, like, you kind of think the ball's going to do one thing, and all of a sudden the ball's like, nope, sorry. When I was trying to make that shot off the left flipper of that ram, and, I mean, it would bounce off the lower left flipper, and then I'd be like, God damn, that's fast. Yeah, that's one of the complaints I read about it, is that people say the game's too hard. It's a hard game, but I had a good time. It wasn't so hard where I was frustrated, and I thought the balance of easy and hard shots was pretty good. And overall, it's not top five on my list to own, but I'll play it a lot on location or if a friend has it. I think it's a winner and I think it's a fun game. It's a super fun game. We had a great time getting out that day playing it. It's a super fun game. I like it. I don't want to own it because I'm not an insurance person. I was in high school when that came out or something like that. Yeah. But it's fun. It's a lot of fun. My boys loved it and for a three and a five-year-old who's diehard, I only like Funhouse for the most part and Twilight Zone. He liked it. And so I'm going to take a five-year-old's opinion on it. If he likes it, it can't be that bad. He enjoyed the shots. He got some multiball. He had fun on it, so it's not too difficult. It's easy enough for a novice to step up and I can get multiball on this. Oh, it's crazy to be a multiball. But at the same time, to do good, it's hard. That's perfect. That's the perfect pinball machine where you can bring in and have you play and get to multiball. It's an easy objective, but to do well, you've got to move your butt and get into that game. That's exactly how a pinball game should be to get you to play. Hey, this is easy. I was only two shots away from this. I can do it this time and put in another couple bucks. Is it a learn easy to play, hard to beat? I figured out what it reminds me of. It reminds me of whitewater. Like you don't quite know where the ball is going to come from until you've played it a bunch of times. And then it makes a lot more sense. except on Jeff's and Courtney's because you can see that thing from outer space you can now oh yeah he did an aggressive LED job on it and then he decided to put spotlights on it too which I'm like you are not going to need those spotlights I got a farmer's tan from it I still see spots when I blink it was overkill love you meaner Ninja Turtles was fun it's a great game they sold a ton of them it's weird because somebody came out and you can get a Ninja Turtles now used easy because Avengers and because people say it's just too darn hard so buy a Ninja Turtles if you can't buy one or just like I don't know I'm on the fence or nah it's not for me get out and play one grab a friend grab a lover grab somebody you can tolerate for an hour grab your mask and your hand sanitizer find a place it's open. Go play yourself in Ninja Turtles. You won't regret it.
    62:40
    Alright, so we got a fun one tonight. Dan and Brian pimp out Dan's Medieval Madness remake. That was the first run, right? So, yeah, my Medieval Madness remake is a limited edition. We got it from our buddy Keith. He sold it to me. Shout out to Keith.
    63:00
    Snit wrap! And, you know, we only dropped it down the stairs once. Just saying. only a couple steps and it's been fine you know I've had a lot of good times with it you know we've played it in league quite a few times it is definitely probably the meanest medieval madness I've ever played it's a real bastard and when you know they announced the upgrades I was like so perspective when they announced that they were doing an upgraded version I was like, and all the medieval baddest limited edition owners are a little bitchy about it, and I was sort of like, look, it's like, go. Jesus Christ, man. I got a pee pee over there.
    63:47
    All the limited edition owners are a little butthurt, right? Because we're losing our limited edition status. And I said, hey, look, as long as they make the upgrades available to limited edition owners and we can spend a few hundred bucks, I can't be mad, you know. And amazingly enough, the guys at Chicago Gaming and Planet Carry Pinball Supply came through. You know, they made the upgrades available. So you could order the King of Pain Topper kit, which was $650. You could order the XL display and upgraded sound. They came together, and I'm thinking that was $650, and you could order the – maybe that was only $599. And then you could order the enhanced lighting, and that was about $300.
    64:47
    Basically, it ends up coming out to about $1,600. And if you don't have it or if you had a classic edition and you didn't have it yet, the XL color chip is required. That's under $400. So you're talking about $2,000 in updates here. So I shot my mouth off and said if they did it, I'd buy it. They did it, and then I was put into a situation where I had to make a decision, right? So it's either buy it. What the fuck are you guys doing?
    65:16
    So it's like either I'm going to buy it. I mean, everyone's like running away from the table. They're like, all right, this is Dan Salilakui. I'm just filling time. Come on. I don't have a part time. Exactly. Stretch.
    65:29
    Anyhow, I put my name on the list for the parts. Finally got my shout out that they wanted my money. Sent them my money. Before I knew it, I had the parts. And it was time to do something with all this crap. So what was it, last week, the week before? Last week. No, two Sundays. Two Sundays ago. That's it. I started on the project. You know, although I'm lonesome, I installed the Excel display, which was probably not the thing to do first, but it was the easiest. I installed the subwoofer, which was a bit more difficult because breaking the old one out was just nerve-wracking because, you know, you really do have to put the blocks to it. And then the following day, Brian came by, and we spent probably six hours putting in the topper and the lighting kit. Brian pretty much handled lighting kit more or less single-handedly. It was impressive, really. And now we have a royally limited edition. The following week, because my topper had a slight defect, our boy Cheddar from Lodi came out, helped me by fixing the connector, helped me repin the display panel so that we would have the color changing on the display panel, and everything's working like a champ, man. It looks like a million bucks. I think that if you do happen to own a Medieval Madness Limited Edition it's certainly not necessary you know, like, you're still going to have fun, it's still a great looking game but if you did want something that was a little bit more, a little bit special and, you know, I admit, man, the lighting is really, it really won me over, I wanted that lighting, the display's great the topper is beautiful, but that lighting just kicks ass I can't wait to see it, man. Yeah, it's been over since you've done it. It was a bit of a project. Dan mentioned the subwoofer stuff, and it's just, you would think, if you've done the old stuff in WPC and you've had to put a bigger sub in there, put a new, like, spacer in, those things pop out like butter because you basically use staples and no glue. Like, you can look at the thing and it's going to pop out. His was, from the damage he showed me, and I don't mean damage to the cab, but, like, here's all the busted speaker spacer. They, like, used real glue. So it's kind of impressive. They did a lot of it. And they used really, really cheap particle board. So it just disintegrated. As soon as you put a – I had a little cat's paw and a hammer, and I just put – I was like, I'm just going to ride under this thing once I'll swoop. And just a big old hunk broke off. Oh, wow. And I was like, oh. And so then it was, you know, just breaking it off a chunk at a time. Until probably like the last 30%, and that last 30% was like, oh, you want me to come out? Oh. And then I had to sand it so it was smooth and put in the new stuff. But at the point that it was out, it went real easy. And then, of course, the other two nerve-wracking parts were you have to drill. If you have an older machine, you have to drill a hole in the top of the cabin. You actually have to drill several holes, but you have to actually cut a hole for the subwoofer wiring. And it just felt like there was a huge possibility that that might go splintery. Oh, no, no, no, not subwoofer, for the topper. I'm sorry, for the topper. Yeah. And that went well. We didn't have any problem there. we went about half down, about half up and that went pretty smooth and then we just had to drill holes for the choppers and some of the team nut positions were a little snug but we got them in there with a little finagling and then the pop bumper wiring which was definitely I think the shadiest part of the entire endeavor. Yeah, the pop bumper wiring on your normal Medieval Madness remake has two power wires go to like a three pronged lug And the power wire goes in, and then on one of them you have one set of wires for one pop bumper, and on the other lug you have two pair, one from the other two pop bumpers going. You're supposed to cut those off, then use wire ties to attach into a different harness that plugs into an old spot on the 6.3, fine, no problem. If I was going to redo it, and I had known what I was going to tackle now, I would have ran that wire harness down to those lugs and just cut the power from them and left the ones there and wired something else. It was tight. Everyone here has done pop bumper lights before. You know, you don't leave much. There's not much extra wire in there for play. It was difficult. The only other issue we had was because of his early run that we had to find a longer Cat 5 cable because the wiring harness coming down from the topper was not long enough to match up to the instructions. Again, not a big deal. We moved the board up. Then we had to find a longer Cat 5 cable to plug up in there. Again, if they sent, like, maybe an 18-inch cable instead of a 12-inch cable, it's not that big of a deal. Cat 5 is cheap. Everybody probably has Cat 5 cables sitting around their house at this point in our lives. But it wasn't bad. The GI harnesses were easy to do, and it was relatively cut and dry. The only other issue was is the ground wire that goes from the new board down underneath the play field is incredibly, incredibly tight. It's like sort of just the right length if you were to install it, the topper board in the correct spot, which, of course, we had to move it up a couple inches. So, I'll probably end up doing another ground wire for it, because it's just basically, you know, two female lugs. And then the lugs on the wire were the wrong size. We had to cut those off and get the right ones. Again, not a big deal. Right. You know, but I think we'll probably end up doing it. I'll make a longer ground, just for safety's sake, in case the plate field falls or something crazy happens and doesn't rip something out. well this is good stuff because somebody might be looking at buying it if they've got an older standard or the original run of the standard or the LE Minimal Madness Remake this can kind of help out as a bit of a tutorial it's a lot of work I'd say all in all and all the time we spent on it adding it both up it was probably 10 hours worth of work would be a good guess you have a day ahead of you and we weren't I've kind of talked to a lot of people on the pin sides about this, and now a few of us have installed it, so we've been comparing notes.
    71:34
    We probably weren't the most efficient or the fastest. I mean, we had the tools and we had the ability, and, you know, we weren't rushing through it. We took our sweet time. I obviously took way, way too long on the subwoofer block. Like, that probably for, you know, if you're lucky, should have been a 20-minute operation in 53 hours. but I would say if you're you got the tools and you're fast and efficient you're probably looking at the six hour job right on man is that concluding the if you want it get it I mean it's expensive it's worth it if you want it it's expensive for sure like I said it probably if you don't have any of the parts it'll set you back about 2k if you already have the color chip, you're probably looking at $1,600.
    72:26
    But from what I understand, they're not going to make the materials available forever. So if you're thinking that you want to do it, get on it. And it's doable. I mean, it's not for – it's not a – I mean, it's mostly plugs and screws. You know, it's not a highly technical project. Again, there's a couple dicey things you'll want to know you're wearing on your tools, but, you know, I feel lucky Brian was there to help me because it probably would have taken me 20 hours solo, but I think I would have gotten through it. And the finished result, especially if you do a good job buttoning everything up, is really, really impressive.
    73:08
    Right on, man. And don't let all those Royal Editions fuckers have all the fun, man. Looking forward to playing it. Limited editions. You know, or the next time we record. We might record at the house. Well, it's nice that if, you know, because we bought your second-rate market, but, I mean, you got a limited edition. And then, you know, when they came out with that royal edition, we went, well, wait a minute, you know. So if you wanted to upgrade it, it's available. You can do that. Yeah, it's nice that they did that. It's nice that they did that, and I think it's also buying a bit of goodwill. The way you guys are talking about it, the building of the games is pretty high quality.
    73:41
    My understanding is that the limited edition is still the most common medieval madness remake. it's sort of like Pirates of the Caribbean. The standard edition is actually the rarest. Right. But, I mean, the build quality, like you said, is good. Chicago Gaming has pretty much proven that they can make a good game. I mean, I have had no complaints at all about my machine. It's been a tank. Knock on wood. Right. I haven't had good luck lately.
    74:10
    The only downside I had was mine besides, and I think that most of the things that we ran into were probably because of changes as the run went along, is that I had a busted connector on my topper. I opened a ticket with Chicago Gaming, and we had fixed it by the time that I got the part, but they did just say, hey, no problem. We'll send you the part. They did not send me a return label, by the way, so they didn't want the plastic shards back. But no, they were quick. They were efficient. They sent me the part to fix the problem.
    74:42
    I couldn't ask for much more than that. so yeah it was really really cool and a big big big thanks to Brian for coming out and helping with the install a big thanks to Eric Cheddar out there in Lodi for helping with the repair and if you're ever in Sacramento and you know we're not all you know trying to avoid each other because of COVID and you want to play some Medieval Madness remake we're happy to make that happen well done man guys that was a beautiful segment thank you it was informative it was fun And I talk so much I deserve cookies There are cookies up in that shelf So knock yourself out man We on to what I hope is a continually reoccurring segment We started last month, and that's the Time Capsule. So we're going to open up the Time Capsule tonight, and tonight's Time Capsule is opening up to the year 1991. we're going to talk about the games that were released in 1991 it was a game changing year as in it was the first year that the dot matrix display or DMD display was released out into the world in pinball games from a couple of manufacturers at least so at that time you had in 91 you had Valley Williams Data East or Data East Scotland Premier And Well we did have Alvin G That year so But anyway So we'll get it started we're going to start with Valley Williams Time Capsule is opening To 1991 We're kicking it off with Gilligan's Island And since Brian's owned that game And owned it for several years I'm going to let you start Gilligan's Island I, as a freshman, I remember that the local arcade got one in.
    76:45
    And it was definitely something neat to see because you had this new display. And, you know, looking back now, you know, yeah, it's very rudimentary, crude by today's standards or whatever. But you're looking at it through the eyes of 2020 and not 1991 when all you used to see were Alphanumeric. It was cool. It was neat. You got to see animations. It was definitely a game changer. It was great. It was the coolest thing ever.
    77:14
    I like Gilligan's. It's a fun game. It's definitely easy. It's easy to understand. The rules are literally laid out on the play field for you. It's not a Simpsons pinball party by any stretch, but it's definitely a fun entry-level game that anybody can step up and understand how to play it. That's important in pinball. Every game doesn't need to be the world's most difficult game where you've got to, like, oh, I've got to backhand this ramp seven times from the left flipper. Then I've got to do a circle because I have this camera captured. I don't do that. I don't get the super-duper wizard mode. No, it's very – it's cut and dry. It's easy. It's simplistic. The biggest drawback and gripe I think I have from deal-agains is just that you can't earn a multiball. It's random, which is a bummer. Right. It really is. And it could have been made a little bit more difficult, but I understand why they didn't. It's a great-looking game. They're all faded. finding an unfaded one is practically impossible almost all of them have wear in the menu area I searched for years literally 4 or 5 years before I found one that didn't have wear in the menu area they almost all do even when I got it mine was mylar and I think Dan was over the day I pulled it off I wasn't I was there when we picked it up and then I didn't see it again until you had shopped it out and it was really night and day yeah it's a good looking fun game I just have a blast playing it when you add it. It's fun, and, you know, the nice thing is if you're like, I want a DMD game, that's what I want, entry level, that game's going to set you back $2,000. You know, if anyone's trying to sell you that thing for, you know, a pristine one, maybe $3,000, like absolutely perfect. Right. But most of those things sit around $2,000 every day. It's not the world's most hardest game, you know, depending on who you are, what you are, what you like. It may not last long in the collection. It may last forever, but it's cheap. and that's the rare thing right now in D&D games if you're talking Valley Williams right it's good clean fun I really like that game but if I owned it I'd probably get bored of it real quick unless I had a bigger thing sorry I've been good online anyway you guys quit flirting it's just disgusting anyway the rotisserie thing it's not a rotisserie what do you call that? oh you're talking about the island spinner you know what everyone I know I've read a whole bunch of things where people are like oh you gotta paint the thing black to get it to work and all this mine worked because of the bottom with the optos mine worked absolutely flawless it was perfect the only issue I had with my game was that one of the thumper bumpers was broken And so, like, a screw is barely holding it on, and you can't find those Thumper Bumper Pop Rings. They're impossible to find. I eventually, I think Cheddar picked one up for me, like, in 2017. No, it was on a Pentagoga. For, like, $20 or $30, and I had to jump on it because you just can't find them. Nobody reproduces them because they're only used in a handful of games. Right. And Rod and Rings, you know, if you think about it, they don't break too often, but when they break, every other game doesn't use those Thumper Bumpers. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what manufacturer or what era. They're all the same. And now teams use them, and I'm really surprised that they weren't out there. But, yeah, it was a hard part to find. I always thought that was a really cool map. And like you said, with the multiball, somebody did a rewrite, you know, and kind of beefed up the rule set a little bit, made it just a little bit deeper, and made it to where you hit whatever shot. Multiball.
    80:50
    It's a fun game, and it's fun to shoot. It is. It's a fun shooting game. It's a relatively clean shooting game.
    80:59
    And really, if you want to make it harder, all you have to do is have the island spin after every shot up there. Just like in the cartoons, like in Scooby-Doo, they'd run through the hallways. Like they'd go through the far left door, they'd enter in the right, but they'd go through the far left again and come through the middle. Just have the island spin after every shot. That's all it would take. Yeah, the scoring is hella broken. Yeah, the scoring is, yeah.
    81:18
    Nothing's worth any points. Until you get to Kona. And then Kona's worth all of the points. who were we playing? I think Alex and I were playing somebody when that went to Adam. And he got to I think it was Chris Bright. And he got to Kona and just beat the whole mode. Just curb-stomped us. I did the same thing when I played Adam. Maybe it was you.
    81:41
    Somebody just got to Kona and just, I mean, well, I think we were both, like, in the Kona mode. But yeah, they got to Kona and just ran they just ran the table. And we were like, well, that's how I'm going to get back. I had no idea what, because I'd never done it before. Yeah. I think it was Chris Wright. I think it was. It was pretty amazing. And he just, like I said, it was maybe his first time at the game. So I can see why some people are just sort of like, well, it's a little shallow. But, yeah, getting all the ingredients and putting them into the thing and making the selsun and playing the Kona mode is super fun and super easy. If you can find one for 2K and you like the theme, you know, there's some fun to be had there. it's probably not a forever game unless you are just you know super fanatic about the theme or you love it but I mean I can imagine I didn't really see one I think until Brian got his you don't see them a lot they sold a bunch but I don't think it was a super common game I think it was a game that got unfortunately parted out to keep Terminator 2 going but I do think that it was a really weird game and I think if I'd seen that back in the 90s I would have had a good time with it Alex you got anything? I do, yeah. I used to, like, dislike the game, and then I played a little bit more and started to enjoy it, I feel like. I mean, it's a very simple game, let's be honest. All you're doing is complete ingredients to get to Kona, use a jetpack, the goal is to build a jetpack, you know, for Kona, and it requires all these ingredients, you know. The shots are pretty neat. I mean, it has some pretty neat shots. It has some cool shots. That shot up the bottom lane. The bonus multiplier shot is pretty neat. Yeah, yeah. That's a really awesome shot. That's a satisfying shot. And the game has to be set up properly to make it, which means you have to have your flippers have to work perfectly. And the game has to be clean. Because when I first got my game, you couldn't make the bonus multiplier shot. It was impossible. The flippers needed to rebuild, and the game was dirty. Oh, yeah. Once it's done, you go up, and it curves around that really cool S. And it has to clear the roll-in scoop to go down to get it. It's just a neat shot.
    83:44
    The sound effects are great. I love the coconut sounds. Yeah. And for some reason, the shrunken head When the shrunken head animation hits, look at it, tell us if you think I'm wrong.
    83:58
    No, it looks like Ted Danson. Yes, it looks like, I can't not unsee that whenever I see that. It looks like Ted Danson. It's got some good-ass voice work, too.
    84:10
    Like, I think it's got some cast members. And obviously, it's got It's going to be a 4K game by next Tuesday because we're talking it up. Yeah, buy it. Sell your Star Wars to me. Buy good things. Take care. All right. Next up is Harley Davidson.
    84:24
    Yeah, the thing is so good. Well, no, no. This is the Valley Williams. It's sarcastic. I know. This is the Valley Williams, Harley Davidson. I don't know if I've ever played this game. Was this the last alphanumeric? I believe it was. It was either that or Brian Pimbot, and I think Harley was the last one. Yeah, I think Brian Pimbot was last year, wasn't it? Or was it this year? No, Brian Pimbot said 91. Okay. So it was right at the tail end and at the very beginning of the WPC era. Yeah, this is WPC. So, yeah, I just don't know a lot about it. Have you got the right guy to bring back? Not yet, but we'll get to it. It's down the list. So, which did you prefer, King, first? I really haven't played much of the Harley Davidson. I think I might have played it once or twice. I don't remember really. I don't remember it making an impact on me I think that's it's place in history I think it was the last valley off of America and it was a single level play field pretty basic game spinners, targets, prop bumpers no multi-ball okay anybody else want to talk about Harley? no we can skip it okay Hurricane so funny story about Hurricane it ties directly into the Gillians Gillian's went to the show the year my youngest was born. I was only there Saturday for like two hours, if that. Dan was a big help. You know, he took it to the show. He brought it home for me. It stayed in his garage. A lizard moved into it. Pinball lizard! And we finally, we got it to my house again, finally. Well, no, I plugged it in. He plugged it in. I tried to play it, and it blew up. It literally blew up. All right, no problem. We can fix this thing. And I was afraid that I had killed Todd's Cactus Canyon Continuum. which has a P-Rock in it. And I was relieved when it turned out I'd only killed the Gilligans, but it turned out that I really killed the Gilligans. It wasn't his fault, but basically the Transformer was gone. I've never had a Transformer go bad. First time I've ever had that happen. You know, we're talking, you're off $300 for a new one on a $2,000 game. Anyways, this guy on Pinside is like, hey, I have this lion on a hurricane up in Jackson.
    86:37
    It's a parts game. You know, I want it. But if you need it for the Transformer, go ahead and buy it. So, cool. Talk to the guy. We're going to go pick up this game. It's a parts game. I want it for the Transformer. It's $100. I get the Transformer. I'm fine. We'll pile up the rest and make the money back. We get up there. A lot of parts for that game went into, was it Getaway or Creature? Both. Yeah, a lot of parts for that went into the Transformer. So, we go up to Jackson. We take his truck. It's pouring. You know, it's raining on the way up there, but it's not bad. We meet this guy named Bart.
    87:07
    Bart owns the Mel's Diner up there. and used to be an operator years and years and years ago. We go up to his house, and there's just this rat-infested, it's falling apart hurricane. And I mean, it was in bad shape. There was only one board in it. It was the sound board.
    87:30
    It had a flipper board, too. No, it didn't. Dan's like, we can fix it up. Hey, in my defense, I was watching a lot of arcade rescue games on YouTube or arcade rescue videos on YouTube at the time. And I thought we could fix it up. But I do love your optimism. Oh, it was bad. Like, the play field had concaved into the middle. It was like an old skateboard deck from the 80s. It stunk. The game smelled awful.
    87:56
    We pay. It was held together by the ground strap. Yeah, I'll get to that. We pay. We're starting to load in this truck.
    88:02
    And, like, the rain gods just opened up on us. Like, it started pouring. Now, for people who don't know, Dan's truck at that point is SRT-10. It had this hard bed cover on it that we didn't take off because taking it off is akin to getting kicked in the nuts. And I'd rather get kicked in the nuts than take apart that truck cover. So we kind of shove it in there. It's like, dude, it's already ruined. Who cares, really?
    88:23
    And it just, it pours. We get home. And it is not even like, oh, it's raining. No, I mean, it is. It's movie rain. It's opened up like, you know, we're soaked to the bone. Like, it is raining. We get home. We get it to my house. You know, I take out the transformer. We get into Gilligan's, it works. Great. Dan's still thinking, we can fix this thing. He's like, dude, this thing's a piece of crap. I'm already starting to strip stuff out of it. It's smelling up my garage. And I pull out the coin door, and the front of the cabinet falls off the game. I'm told to get held on by the ground strap and two screws.
    88:56
    But Hurricane was the last in the theme park trilogy games. And you would think, oh, it's got a DMD. It had some really cool-looking ramps. It had the double Ferris wheel. But Cyclone blew it out of the water. agree Comet I thought was a better game some people love Hurricane they think it's the best one I disagree I like Cuss Cyclone a lot better Hurricane had the thing where it looked really cool and I think if they had some better code it might have been a much better game I never really got into Hurricane but I really don't know like I've played it enough to know I don't like it and I found it simplistic all I want to do is hit the ramp that goes up and circles around again because it looks neat The juggler thing was kind of cool. The double Ferris wheel thing, you know, it was one of those things where I could see them being, it's just like Roadshow. Oh, if one's great, two's going to be better. Sorry. Not this time. Not this time, Dr. Jones. You know, we go on many adventures, but it's one Ferris wheel.
    89:54
    It just, it never struck my thing. I will say I love the back glass on it with the spinning roller coaster. I did save that part. I was going to say, you have the topper sitting in your garage. I have the topper still, and eventually I wanted to do a swap box. I saved all the motors so it will spin slow instead of really fast. Oh, cool. It was never, like, my favorite D&D game. Again, it's one of those early D&Ds where they were still like, hey, we got this brand-new toy. What can we do with it? And I don't think they were quite there yet. The animation is just simplistic. The rules are pretty simplistic. Again, your mileage may vary. You may love the game, and that's fine. You know, if you like it, you like it. If you like it, hey, you can get them cheap, so that's more power for you.
    90:33
    Yeah. What do you think? I like it. it's not a good game. It's just not, but I still like it. I feel like it's a game that I would buy and I would keep for a year and I would probably get over it, but, like, I've always actually wanted a Hurricane. It's sort of my desire to own the worst whatever I can own.
    90:55
    I think it's ugly. I think that the shots are super cool. It's got a giant long ramp. The DMD is okay. The sound is just there. I still won't. We were just talking about it last night. You know, like, because there's one, like, for $2,200, $2,300. There's one on Craigslist around here forever. It's, like, $2,300. Or in, like, Folsom, I thought. No, it's in, like, the guy. I think Folsom's the one. There's been one in, like, the Bay Area. He's also got a checkpoint. Yeah. And that's another team that I'm, like, it's not good. We'll get to that. It's not good. I still want it. But, like. I remember you saying it. I've always. It was $1,500. I'd buy it today. Well, not maybe today now because I've got other things going on. But, yeah.
    91:37
    in halfway decent shape. I'd pick it up. I'd probably keep it for a year. It'd probably be like Black Rose. I really wanted it. I got it. I kept it for just about exactly a year and was like, well, time on to the next. So I'm getting a second one. The second one was a different one. The thing with Hurricane is I think Ryan said it the best. It's an early DMV, which to me is always very interesting. I like to see the evolution of the art form.
    92:02
    It was different. Like I said, it was the third in the series, a fairly story series, and it's got a very interesting lineage. I think it's an Ousler and a Python, and that Art is a big, disturbing clown that when you lose the ball, it's basically right down into his nethers, and it's just a really weird game. Flashing eyes. And the topper's cool. The back box is cool. I always thought that was a really neat thing. I don't know why the Haunter cane, because of the Haunter virus that was full of it, Like, when we had it on the ground in the place, I was like, oh, we could probably save this. By the time we got to Brian's house, I knew we couldn't save this. I was just giving him shit. Because the project fell off. Well, because it needed $1,000 worth of boards and a transformer, because we were definitely stealing the transformer. But we got a lot of good parts off of that. We tumbled a lot of stuff. I still maintain that we should have really taken the plate field down to the wood. How was the ramp? The main ramp that's on it. It was okay. The main ramp. Yeah, it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't as bad a shape as normal. All the mounting points were broken except for one, which is common. Yeah.
    93:13
    It was a mess. It was filthy. It was bad. Yeah. And the ramp was salvaged for someone that might need it. Yeah. I sold the play field at that pentagogo that year. I don't know who bought it. I sold the play field at that pentagogo. Yeah, you collected the money. You did the work. Oh, yeah. You did the work. I just. Yeah, somebody bought it. I don't remember who did. He got like 80 bucks for it. Yeah, which is fine. The funny thing was, with all the stuff that I stole, with the fact that he got that power supply and all the parts that he sold, that was not a money losing. And we went up there. We met a cool guy. I think we got a free lunch out of it. We got him back into pinball. Yeah. Yeah, that was the most amazing thing. We awakened his pinball spirit. And now he's got like, what, five or six new sterns in his restaurant? I don't know what he has right now. I was just up there a month or so ago, drove right by it. For a while, he had a thick lineup. and we'll get back up there. Yeah, we need to get back up there. Bart's a great guy. He's super nice.
    94:10
    And this is a story for a different time. We'll get two forms of it. He turned us on to this old operator who was like hillbilly crazy. I think we've told this story on the show. No, we have. And on the way home from that, there was a log ride I should have bought. A log ride from a log ride.
    94:26
    We should have done it. We had the truck. We had money. We should have done it. The funny thing about Hurricane is it's another one that I don't really remember seeing that game in the arcade. I don't either. My local arcade? Oh, sorry. I think that it was one of those ones I played later on, you know, and the funny thing was, in like the late 90s, the early 2000s, freaking people wouldn't be caught dead with a hurricane. You know, it just had such a bad reputation. Which is so weird, because Cyclone and Comet were everywhere. Right, but it was like there were a lot of DMV games that, again, they were sacrificial. Yeah. You know, like if your Terminator 2 died, you stole the boards out of Hurricane to fix If your Addams Family died, you stole the words out of a hurricane to fix it. So I think that a lot of those met a terrible fate. And I think that a lot of those early games, you know, they're historical curiosities. But, yeah, to actually go in the time capsule, I didn't play that shit in the 90s. What do you think, Alex? What do you got for Hurricane? Hurricane is kind of a – wasn't a big fan of it. No, it's like, you're not getting that game flexible.
    95:27
    So, yeah, it's his best. Our county fair that year, one of the arcades had all three of them lined up. Oh, wow. And so that was kind of neat to see. And it was the only time I've ever seen the arcades there where the game was at. The hurricane was in good shape. All the rest of their pins barely worked. What was that? It was the Alameda County Fair. Oh. And back then, there used to be tents set up, you know. Yeah. These are nice tents, and there'd be arcades there. I remember those. That was a big thing. Yeah. They only had the weirdest games. You know the game they always had at the state fair, Tins, that you never saw in a regular arcade? Chiller. Yeah. We had a chiller on base at Pearl Harbor. I played the hell out of that game only sick and twisted it is you're gonna play chiller oh that game is war chiller it is fucking yes anyway so what's next oh okay well I want to finish up a hurricane real quick two things that game should have been way better than it was and it just needs a little fine tuning get rid of the second ferris wheel put in a orbit shot or a horseshoe somewhere better code better art but I mean It is what it is, and it's got a place in pinball history. Love that ramp shot. Absolutely love it. It's a blast to shoot. But that's not enough to keep me coming back long term.
    96:42
    Side note, the year that you, that Clinton. What the crap are you talking about? Hold on. I think it's having a stroke. No, the year your younger son was born. 2017. Fenton. Sorry. I'm so sorry. I should know this. I'm really tired. I'm doing well.
    97:05
    Fenton. The year Fenton was born. And you took his Gilman's Island. You took another game. You're Judge Dredd. Because Dredd was having the problems. If you remember, you and me loaded him on your truck to get done with the show. I helped you load him on the truck. If you guys helped me load him, get out. Good memories.
    97:22
    And up next is... It's not even really a pinball machine, but damn it if it's not a good time. Slugfest.
    97:30
    Those were everywhere. They sold a Rap ton of those Yeah they did And I remember being a dumb kid back then Playing that and figuring Man I'm going to get myself Like some kick ass rookie card Not thinking that the ops Were pulling all the valuable cards in And just putting in crap But those were Everywhere And Since my grandma still has a pigeon bat I was drawn to it immediately Because It's a pigeon bat I know how to play one of these With the dot matrix But Yeah It's a great It's a fun game It is You know if you have a decent sized collection and you like pitching bats, you can find those still relatively cheap. They're fun. It's a fun game.
    98:09
    Fun for what it is. Yeah, it's a pitching bat. I played a lot in the 90s. The Ricohs on Northgate, which is one I live near, they have the T2. They have the select that's their side-by-side. I played the select that's probably more than the T2, weirdly enough. I didn't care about the baseball cards. I was not a baseball card collecting by that point. But, I mean, it was really neat and different. It was the first pitching bat that I'd ever played. and, like I said, you could steal bases. Yeah. That was just the coolest thing. I thought it was great. You could taunt. Yeah.
    98:38
    I always enjoyed playing any kitchen bat. I enjoyed playing a slug pass when I could find one. If I had unlimited funds in the room, I'd love to have a slug pass. Oh, for sure. Like, yeah, you know, $1,500 and, you know, you find a decent one, doesn't need the topper. Oh, the topper would be cool. Doesn't need the card dispenser, although that'd be cool. People want the card dispenser now in that game. What you absolutely need is a second person to play it with. Yeah. It's a lot more fun. And now a color DMV for it. Oh, they did a color DMV for Slycrest? They did. That's badass. What do you think, Alex? I think, yeah, I think it's an okay game. I think it's fun.
    99:12
    Played it at Jack's once, I think. Not much more to be said about it. It is what it is. If you find one on location or you know somebody else, check it out. Wasn't the last Pitching Bat until the... I believe it is. Until the ones that came out a couple years ago. Yeah. All-Star or whatever the other one was. Which, they have a running man. Yeah, they do. They put the running man back in it. Next is The Machine, Bride of Pinbot.
    99:39
    Do I also want to start? Yeah. Bride of Pinbot is fun. I always like the shots on it. I like the Bride of Pinbot itself.
    99:49
    I just think it was a great game before the DMV came along, you know, for Bally. It was kind of a thing before Gilligan's. I think it was just a great game. That was a Williams. Oh yeah, right. Yeah, I like the shots on it. I like how it's one of the first games to have a billion shot on it too.
    100:12
    That one center ramp, that one left ramp is just the way to play it. Although some people don't like to do it like that. You can play it just for standard score, but I always like to try and go for the Billionaire's Club if I can.
    100:31
    That was a game. Again, the local arcade had one. When it came out, I was super excited because I had seen pictures of it in an old Smithsonian magazine. It was either before or after. They shortly got it. And I was like, man, this looks awesome. It looks so cool with the skill shot. I love how that looked. I like the rotating face. I was like, man, this looks great. It looks like such a great game. I love Pinbot. Pinbot's just it can be a mean little bastard and then I played it and until they did the add-on which I'm not going to talk about it was left ramp all day long that was how you wanted to score the points but the innuendos in the game are awesome. I can speak. Oh no. It's great. It's got that Python R-rated innuendo going on. Python knobbiness. Yeah, just a little bore. And the flipping of the face was cool. I liked the, you know, they had like the Plinko-style ball area up top again. Yeah. I just didn't think it was the greatest game ever. It's just once I learned, oh, you said if you want to score good, left ramp, left ramp, left ramp, billionaire shot. The challenge wasn't there. It's a great-looking game. I still like how it looks. I'm just not the biggest fan of how the original plays Right I had Todd's for about a year And I enjoyed it and I had fun While I had it But yeah the rule set is Not the deepest I mean for the time it came out It's a beautiful game and it's got all these cool little gizmos And features you know the head The face turning like you said the ending windows Both the ramps are fun to shoot But you know there's not You know we won't get into the code rewrite or anything like that for now, but I mean, that really could, you know, kind of give that game a new life. But it's a fun shooter. It's pretty to look at, and it has some neat stuff that people took further on other games later on. But yeah, I mean, Python showed its genius there again, and you know, if one shows up at a show or a collector's house, I'll give it a 4 from 3. I love that game. I want another one really bad.
    102:48
    And like everyone else has said, it doesn't have the best rules, but it's just got the best personality. It's so fun to shoot. It's so fun to watch do its thing. For the moment, I think of all the games in 1991 we're going to talk about, it was actually the best.
    103:05
    You know, and, you know, we had a beater one that we got, you know, we got off of an arcade trade for a golden tee that we got for free back in the day. And I sold it for like $900, and I really, really regret doing that, although it was a beater. it was Will's first shop job funny enough Will completely shopped it we fixed it we didn't buy any parts just stuff that I had laying around the garage it was like a roadkill project you know shot some RC engine clean in the face and started working putting new light bulbs in it thing worked great man it was bypassed and hacked six days to Sunday still worked everyone wanted to play it when I got rid of it everybody was pissed at me and I was mad too I really should have kept it but I was in a downsizing way you know the 2.0 kit obviously has made those things a hot commodity and rightfully so. It's really, really cool. We're lucky to have a guy. I hope he still has it. I haven't talked to Cheddar about it in a long time. I think he does. If I had space and he'd let me keep it at my house forever, I would. I mean, I really love that game. I don't think he'll ever get rid of it. He loves it. But he's always really cool to let me borrow it. He's like, hey, do you want a bad pen bot? I don't got room for it. I'm like, sure. You gotta take my Star Treks because I'm a rat ass one too. That's what I figured because I know he's had it in my house and my other game. And, yeah, it's been all over. It's too good. Yeah. But, yeah, that's a fucking great game, you know. Yeah.
    104:24
    It holds up good memories for all of us. So, if you've never played one or if you haven't played one in a while, man, seek one out and buy the Pinbot.
    104:33
    Good game. Sequel the Pinbot, which is also, I own the Pinbot, legendary game. Up next, Party Zone. somebody we know got a party zone like literally out of the gutter out of the gutter, out of the trash man, I want to spend more time on it and it's got so much cool quirks it's like the second thing to Dr. Dude it's like what's the third or fourth in like the what's the party monsters there's party animals Alviron the party monsters Dr. Dude and then so it's actually a fourth in its series. Yeah, yeah. Because it references all those games. Yeah. Like, except for they don't mention Elvira, but they mention the Party Monsters. Yeah. Yeah, they just don't mention Elvira by name. Nordman Design with some of the Nordmius ramps. His ramps are always so much fun to shoot. Always. Nordman has some awesome ramps. And obviously, in that game with Design, Williams had a glutton overflow of yellow paint sitting around. Apparently. That game is the yellowest game until maybe the new Avengers I've ever seen in my entire life. A lot of yellow on it. Some people complained about that. I don't have a lot of time on one, but the Captain Bizarre moving his head and talking at you. That was kind of neat. Collectible soundtracks.
    105:56
    Including Pinball Wizard. And Chicken Dance. Yeah, all the way. And the Crash Test Dummy. And the Robotic Comet. You know, it's a dumb It's a laugh attack! It's the dumbest thing, but I always, when I play that, even if I'm just playing it on the phone, the, you know, the Kimball Arcade one, not Kimball Arcade, the Williams Collection one, I get the biggest chuckle out of that damn thing. You know, hey, they're robotic comics. If only Dan Hat was laughing at that, you know, that would be great.
    106:27
    I've been trying to talk Mike out of that freebie. And he's still sitting in the garage. I don't know where it's sitting right now. He might have it somewhere. He's like, hey, put it back out in the corner. He's like, fuck you. He's making him money. quarters? You know what? I've never owned one. I've never owned any of that series. I think it's a fun game. I think the ramps and the molded stuff and the figurines and all that, you know, are... they were kind of...
    106:57
    I mean, 1991 had a lot of cool shit going on, right? And that game had a ton... it put it all on the playfield. The problem was that didn't really put a lot in the rules tank. No. You know, it's very, very, you know, it's sort of like Gilligan's, right? You want to do a few things to get to the rocket round and shoot the ramp a bunch and make a bunch of points. Yeah. I think, you know, again, it's a... Yeah, once you get to multiball and you start shooting that ramp, it's just, I mean, your points are just... Yeah, to me, it feels just like Gilligan's. It's a cool game. I think I would own it for a year and be over it. But, yeah, it's cool. And I think that, you know, it is ugly. in its own special, beautiful way. But as an early DMD, I think it's got that weird evolutionary place where you're just sort of like, it's a fourth game in a series, which is interesting.
    107:51
    So you're seeing where the theories went, but you're also seeing the beginning of a new technology and more complicated rule sets, a lot of personality. Not quite as good a personality as Bride of Pinbot have. I cannot figure out why Bride of Pinbot did not get a DMD. That's just insanity to me. I mean, it makes a lot of an alphanumeric. It does.
    108:10
    It's one of those things where it's like Party Zone. It gets a thumbs up. Not a high thumbs up, but it gets a thumbs up from me.
    108:17
    Once again, another one of those games that in the 90s I did not see that shit a lot. It's good, quirky, whimsical fun. I also got to admit, man, I've got a little bit of a soft spot for the Valley Backbox games. Yeah.
    108:33
    It's always great when we talk about these things and we can go back and remember a day where you saw it for the first time. Or maybe you didn't see it, but everybody gets a look on their face of that nostalgia, and it's just nice to see. Especially with everything going on in the world right now, we get a little bit of a grin on your face and go, yeah, man, those were golden days.
    108:56
    Not a lot more to say about Party Zone, really. Last game in the lineup from Valley Williams that year. The Godzilla. The big boy. The Godzilla. It stomped over everything that came out that year. It stomped it. Everything. What else can you say about this game? But I'm going to say one more thing. I'm going to pass it around to you guys. The game is Terminator 2. If you watch the original, what do they call it?
    109:22
    Promo video. The what? Promo video. Thank you. Steve Richie just got the hood up. He's talking about it. He's pointing out the simplicity of the design. you know, for route operators that not a lot of shit to go wrong. The Gilligan's video, they do that a lot in too. They show you how you can remove the turntable. Yeah, super easy to take apart. It's easy to maintain and it's got not a lot of real complex stuff on it that will go wrong. Because everybody who ever had to take apart an earth shaker was like, fuck you guys!
    109:58
    Or later on, the time Time Expander from... No, no, no. Time Expander has nothing on Earthshaker. Earthshaker's awful. I've never taken one apart.
    110:10
    You wouldn't think it is, but it is. So I learned about it at that point, and then the real game changer of this game, I mean, we had a video mode, the first video mode, had so many firsts, and a real game changer for the industry and pinball at large.
    110:27
    Where was I going with this? I had it on a tip of my tongue. No, no, this is a big game changer. I did. Oh, it is basically the fan layout that all other fan layouts are loosely based upon. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. It's pretty close. I can see it. They weren't able to put Robert Patrick's full suit on either. They only were able to show him from the trailer. Yes. On the plastic, you know. So, I mean, it's the original modern family outing game. But shoot, it does have like a Robert Patrick kind of edge. It does, yes. So three of us, you know, you weren't alive back then, were you? I was born in 93. Yeah. You know, I was, that was obviously a freshman year in high school. Dan would have been like a sophomore. You were like just entering your 70s. that summer was probably one of the best summers in terms of just awesome stuff that happened you had Terminator 2 come out and that movie advertising was everywhere absolutely everywhere you had the video game which they sold a crap ton of yeah you had the pinball machine which was everywhere you had the Guns N' Roses You Can Be Mine video on MTV that was played like every half hour. You couldn't miss Terminator 2. Right. And when that pinball machine came out, like I think simultaneously in my hometown, it was like in seven different places. You didn't really have much of a choice but to play it. But every movie theater had it. It was everywhere, and it was awesome. The gun thing was just at that point was the coolest skill shot that ever existed as far as I was concerned at that age. Right. Like it was just. million points. It came across, and you had to pull the trigger to hit it. I'm in. Like, this is awesome. And then you had the skull to lock the multi-ball. It was fun, and you looked at it. Oh, look, it's got the thing in the middle to stop the ball. It loops and returns to the ramp. I'm going to whoop this game's butt. And that game was no joke. It was hard. Until I got older, and I got better with my ball control skills. When you're 14, that game was hard. But man, it was fun. and everywhere I went at the end, I was dropping money into it. It didn't matter. And, you know, 20 years, not 20 years later, you know 10 15 years later I in college and they still around in bars and pizza joints out there making money and I still dropping cash into it Like that was probably the beginning Also you could probably say when Williams found out that their biggest competition wasn't their competitors, it was their old games. That's probably the game that started it. I would agree with that. Yeah, T2, I think, put a lot of games away. Like, it really did. And it replaced a lot of stuff, and I don't think that anybody was unhappy to see it come in. And even though I wasn't playing a lot of pinball at that point, again, I was probably really deep into Street Fighter mania. And I probably played more Slugfest, weirdly enough, than Terminator 2. It is a pinball machine I have to give it a time of day to. And it was really cool. I remember that game always getting play. Like, people were always on it. And it was everywhere. It was one of those machines that, like, yeah, every good arcade had a T2. And, you know. and I've owned a T2 my T2 was a debacle it actually ended up going to Steve G eventually threw a couple moves and he did a super high end restore on it so it's because it got the love another one that I would really love to have for a while, I think it's
    114:09
    it's quintessentially 90s, it's quintessentially Steve Ritchie it's really cool looking you got Schwarzenegger to do his voices which he did on T3 as well, so Schwarzenegger's cool about that. I think it was the first pistol shooter on a game.
    114:24
    Yeah, of course. A lot of firsts. Obviously the first Wayne Cannon. It was the first DMD that Williams was designing. It wasn't the first to release. Right. It got beat to market because of the development time. And I think that at the moment it was the best seller. It might not have been the best seller ever, but it was the best seller ever. It really had Steve Ritchie on the top of the heap until another game came out a couple years later. A certain family showed up. Yeah. And Mr. Lawler took over. Yeah, the Hanson family. Yeah. That game's a grand start, but it's still well-loved, well-respected. You still see them on location. You see them at collector's homes. You see them at shows. Yeah. Well, they were at them. They sold 15K. And I think that, unlike a lot of the other games we were talking about where they had the factor where they got parted out, I think Terminator 2 was often the recipient of the parts because I think that they kept running and they kept selling. But they still are. And I think that, yeah, it's like, you know, I won't walk by a Terminator 2 without playing it. It's a great versus game. It's a great single-player game. Alex is unbelievable at it. Fucking consistency is disgusting. I hate you. You know, I think the last time I played that was with you, me, and practical Steve. Yeah. And it's not overly complex. No, it's not. It's enough there to keep you going and keep you enjoying it, but it's not overly complex. Lining up that double, triple jackpot is not easy. It's super fun. But it's super rewarding when you can do it. Yeah, it's a game. They nailed it. Easy to learn, easy to play, hard to beat. That always sets. Yeah, easy to learn, easy to play, hard to beat. It follows the rule. And it's such a fantastic game. And like I said, as soon as I hit Tournament 2, everybody's face lit up. It brought everybody happiness and memories of being younger. I love that. That's what pinball is. That's the magic of pinball. You know, it was probably, it sounds so stupid to say, that was probably one of the best summers of my life. You know, I remember, you know, playing Terminator 2. The Use Your Illusions album came, both those albums came out that year, as well as the Metallica Black album. Like, I was just in, I was in teenager heaven. Oh, yeah. It was like, I'm going to stick on my Walkman and put in, like, a set tape. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, I got married that March. I probably saw Terminator 2 at least 15 times that year in the theater. I was playing the pinball all the time. You know, these two just amazing albums came out right at the same time. Yeah. Day in the Green that year was Metallica and Guns N' Roses. It was amazing.
    116:54
    It was amazing you said Day on the Green. They still had Day on the Green then. Yeah. It was a great summer for that type of stuff. Yeah. And, you know, Williams, Dave East had a bunch of, well, we're going to talk about those. They had a bunch of killer games come out that year, too. They're up next.
    117:10
    Go. Data East or Data East. I'm not sure what's correct. I think both are. Doesn't matter. We're going to... Not their first game that they put out with the dot matrix, but... Oh, I think their first one was the full-size dot matrix. It is. Batman. No. Batman doesn't have many dot matrices. Doesn't it have many dot matrices? Yeah. The first game with a full size was... Well, the first game with a full size was... The first one with the full-dop figures was Lethal 3. And that wasn't until... Yeah, and that was February of 1992. Why do they have a full size? It's been years since I've played it. Pretty sure it's February. They just released a color DMV for it, and yeah, it's definitely... I think it's February, though. I'll check on the inside. I love that game. So, yeah, Batman. Anyway, Batman. Fun game. huge successful movie that year um or was it 90 that was a huge successful 90 it was so the game was a little behind the eight ball Vicky Bell why not it's a fun game it's a fun game August of 92 everybody was wrong so hey we've all played Batman it's all a pretty good game I don't think it holds up as well but if you're a Batman fan no you know what that game was a lot of fun the back glass on it was really cool the playfield had a really cool layout it's one of those games that was everywhere and unfortunately their clear coat option didn't wear too well, those games, you can still find them but finding one in good condition, you're paying for it but it is it's a super fun game the local bowling alley had one and I played it all the time and I just, I loved it, remember the Joker ramp, it was like in the left corner where you had the two eyeballs and the mouth shot I love that. But it wasn't the Jack Nicholson design, really. It looked more like the Cesar Romero Joker. Yeah. I honestly don't think I've ever played a Batman.
    119:08
    Yeah, well, like you were talking about, Brian, I've played just at shows. A lot of the play fields are pretty worn. Yeah. It looks great. I really want to play it. Oh, yeah, you're right. Junior knows, too. Yeah, I really want to play it, but I don't think I've ever actually played a Batman. I've played a handful of games on it. I played a Tommy in a Batman cabinet. Oh, yeah. That's pretty cool, actually. Yeah. That would be Mr. Timothy. I'm not kidding. Yeah, and Batman. Bat-Tommy. The back lesson to Batman was cool looking. You know, it's a fun game, and, you know, you don't see him in good shape. And it's one of those games, I think, that once they bought it, just like, you know, Lethal Weapon, Acre, and all that stuff. Right. They got the snot played out of them. They were a popular game. Like you said, they were in a very bowling alley and pizza place in America for a couple of three, five years. You know? They got played a lot. Hot license and dead ease for cheap. Yeah.
    120:04
    Up next is the first game. I remember playing this when it was new and just kind of like, oh, wow, there's this. I'm pretty sure it was the first Top Matrix display game I played, and then right after that I remember playing Terminator 2. But it was Checkpoint. And I looked up and went, there's video on this. It's got a video display of sorts. I was blown away. You know? I love the key on Checkpoint. The key was neat.
    120:30
    Oh, there's a key. Turn the key. Oh, that's so cool. You know. Many, many of those have been stolen for the getaway. Yep. Probably a better use of them, but I love Checkpoint. Once again, not really a good game. Weird shot layout. It's got some cool stuff going on. It's kind of cool looking. I love games based on cars. The key is cool. The speed detector thing, which isn't really accurate, is really, really cool.
    120:54
    It's okay. It's one of those ones that when it was like $800, I really should have grabbed one. Because they are what they are. I can see why people don't fall in love with it. I think it's a neat game. You still want it for a couple thousand if you really, really want one. I can see why people don't go crazy for it. Interesting story behind it. So Checkpoint actually was an alphanumeric game that didn't make the grade. And apparently they took it to shows and let people play it. Play the Unleashed prototype. and then when they found out that Williams was going to have Dot Matrix the East was like, well, screw those guys we need a Dot Matrix game, we need it now and I guess what they did was they reached up into the rafters they pulled down Checkpoint, they reworked it a little bit they threw the new Dot Matrix in it and said, there you go here's our Dot Matrix game, first in the market with Dot Matrix so it's like, fuck it, we'll just get it out first, who cares, it's a shit game Exactly. It's not a shit game. No, it's... It's not great. It's not bad. Once again, it's another one of those games that it's early, it's interesting, it's unlicensed, which is really interesting and neat, but yeah, it's... I know if we were out on a road trip somewhere and we stopped into some pizza joint and they had one, we'd put five bucks into it. Oh, you know. And have a blast. It's got that weird 90s, you know, orange and white and checkers and, you know, that's a cool game, man. But the key is really, like, the neatest thing. Yeah, that's a game where with the key, if they could have implemented a shaker motor into it, like a motor turning over, it would have been dope. But it was Data East. Let's get it out. Let's get it done cheap. Well, it's Data East, man. We put shakers in everything, you know, except for this game. Except for Johnny Mnemonic. That's not Data East. No, I'm being funny. I got in trouble because of Data East, that checkpoint, because one time we went to Raging Waters in San Jose, and you came to Raging Waters on the left side and you came in and they had like this waterfall inner tube ride and you went down this waterfall and all this stuff and that's where the arcade was and I wandered in there and there was a checkpoint and I walked over there and my mom got so upset because I spent half the day in there pumping money into a stupid pinball machine that she had to pay, you know, $10 for me to get into and so I put on water slides and that's the first time I ever played a checkpoint and it was just so neat But I very much remember being upset because they had the typical Data East for that period, pop bumpers, where they just didn't work. They were always weak, weren't they? They took a little finagling, even now, to get them to work right. But, yeah, they were always weak. Like, you could see it, like, rest up against the piece, and you'd see the piece bend up and nothing would happen. Yeah. And it was always a bummer. But I remember playing the game with the key and, like, the checkpoint and they had the cool back glass with the Porsches on it or whatever they were. It was a fun game, but it was one of the ones after playing it a couple times and getting yelled at for it, I quit playing it.
    123:53
    Yeah. Not a long-term keeper, but, yeah, if I could find one at a good price, I'd have one in the house for a while. Yeah. They call it the poor man's high speed.
    124:04
    Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Hey, man, it's all pinball, all good. And it's definitely got to play some pinball history And I wasn't aware of that story So thank you Dan for sharing that Up next is Star Trek 25th anniversary Which you just Did a nice little bit of work On Henry's Yeah this year That's actually kind of a fun quirky game You know as far as Star Trek games go It's I like it, it's fun by far hands down it has the coolest Star Trek back glass ever it's so much cooler than any of them I don't care if you're like oh but I like Picard this one has a working transporter on it that is so neat it's got you know it's got the cool ramp set up which is dope it's got the chase lights which is awesome it's a fun day to east game and again when it came out I remember playing it when I was young and pop numbers didn't work And that, again, always bothered me. But I just loved getting the transport to work. I didn't care about anything else. It was just like any other game that had that really cool hook, like getting Rudy to sleep or Dan always talks about getting Thing to pop out. If you could get that transport to work, it was all worth it. Or firing the cannon. Yeah. It was just neat. And, like I said, it's a great Star Trek game.
    125:31
    I'll probably go as far to say I probably like it better than Next Gen. You are high. I think that I like how it looks, and I love the trend. The back glass is what does it for me. I'm hooked on it. I cannot get over the weird off-model Enterprise on the play field. See, I don't care about that. I'm not that big of a nerd. That I am. That is a cool game. It was a really, really cool game. And at the time when it came out, I was deeply into Star Trek, so I was really excited to see it.
    126:01
    You know, what really sells me, Brian kind of said it all, right? You know, it's got some great shots. It's got the rope lights. It's got the... The beaning and the back glass. The transporter back glass. What I was really liked about it was I loved the Dave East-ifying, the Brian Schmidt-ifying of the music. Yeah, the music in that game is pretty good. It had that cool, upbeat, Alexander Kerr Star Trek theme. It had a lot of cool call-outs. It would have been really cool if it had, you know, Kirk, but obviously Shatner wasn't, you know, as cool as Arnold was. But, I mean, they got James Doohan. So, it's always good to hear Scotty. Yeah. You know, yeah, that is a cool game. Brian did a gorgeous shop on Henry's. It's a great game. It's a lot of fun to play. Yeah. And, yeah, that game came out really nice. That new ramp is just fucking... That wall. New ramp on the game is so good. That ramp, though, was just... That was luck. Like, the story with our friend's game is the Star Trek ramp came off, and the right entrance on that ramp, the one that's actually physically there, not the lift ramp, When I took the screws out, the plastic fell off. Like, the screws were holding the ramp up on the game. The entrance fell out. I was like, crap, what are we going to do? Went on to eBay, and I found a populated ramp for $180. New old stock ramp. Yeah, no one reproved that. No one reproed it. Marco had one on their site, stripped for $225. Said, hey, Henry, check it out. Oh, I don't want to spend the money, but he sent the guy an offer for like $160, and the guy took it. And he's like, well, I guess I'm getting a new ramp. and got the game done, and, you know, it just, with the whole repair and everything, and especially with the white and the pink, it just came out beautiful. It is probably the best shop job I've done on a game so far. That scoop repair came out perfect. Yeah, it made, that project turned out great. I'm like, that is a fantastic game. Yeah, it's a really, really fun game. It does, it's just like those older games, though. You know, getting that game taken down to the wood was a bear.
    127:56
    Getting, it wasn't meant to be serviced like that. it's obvious when you're taking it apart. It's like, alright, you know, there's screws underneath the plastic that you need to get out to get that plastic out, but you can't. It's like, how the hell do they get these things in? It's like, well, they probably put it in and then riveted the plastic in right there. Transporter technology. Yeah, it was a difficult one, but it's just, it's a fun game. You know, it's, I think the Star Trek series, of all the ones they've done, you know, it turns out games where they have multiple sequels, it's probably the strongest, in my opinion, out of like the Star Wars, you know, there's what, four or five Star Wars games now or whatever it is. There's four Star Trek games. The Star Trek games are all pretty darn good. Even the old early SS is still a fun game. Yeah. Like, I can't say out of definitively, one of those is the worst game. They're all fun. Yeah. Yeah, there's not The SS is definitely the worst game, but it's not bad for what it is. No, it's not. It's not a bad SS. I would say Next Gen, Stern, Day of the East, real, real close. and then the SS. Yeah, it's a fun game. But, you know, there's not a loser in the bunch. They're all fun. They're all good games. And that's a game you didn't see everywhere either. I remember Great America, I think, had one of – I think that was the first time I ever saw one. Yeah. And it's not one of those games you saw everywhere. I don't think they made a ton of those, did they? I don't think so. I remember seeing it. Scandia had it. You know, that's where I played it, you know, in Exit. That's a great game.
    129:21
    What do you think about it, Alex? You've been quiet on this one. Yeah, I used to play it in Ruler King a lot. up in Roseville. When Baccarat owned those two. The Rollers came and owned those two. Yeah. Bat and Stargate. Stargate took a game, too. Yeah. For a golly. And we're fine.
    129:41
    So what's next, big guy? The last of the data east of that year. Ninja Turtles. Ninja. Go Ninja. I think Alex can start. Go Ninja. I thought it was... You start. I'm going to pee. Again.
    129:57
    to ramp with the skill shot. Professionalism. Oh, bomber. You know, every time you try and hit the skill shot, you know. Yeah, that game, the skill shot, just suffered from that really crappy Data East auto launch where it had that metal piece with the hole through it for the plunger, which once that metal piece got bent out of shape, and it always got bent out of shape, it didn't work. Nope.
    130:23
    But it did have that really cool sewer kick out, which was really neat. and it had a real backlash. Granted, it was not your normal. It didn't. Like, April was about to fall over. Dude, that backlash is great. I know. I love it. Don't get me wrong. It's cool. It played kind of floppy. I mean. It played like a day to east. I remember it had the four turtles on there, the toys, which was cool. Wow. It wasn't the greatest game, but it wasn't bad. It wasn't one that I was going to put money into, especially because all the ones in my area, the replay was set like super low. But like you said, the skill shot, if it didn't work right, and it never did after a while. I remember on most of them, it would break, and then the plunger would hit it, so you couldn't even plunge it. You'd have to sit there and like slam the plunger on the game. Oh, that's hard on the plunger. Yeah, well, you had to because otherwise it didn't work. Otherwise it didn't work. Yeah. And that's what I remember about that game. And the sewer kick out, and they had the spinning pizza. You know, there was some cool stuff to it. It just wasn't the world's greatest, deepest game. Yeah. Which, it was a day to eat, so when you played it, you weren't expecting that. The back glass is pretty. Yeah, we've already waxed that. We've already waxed poetic about the back glass. I thought that was a great game. I mean, I think it was probably the first DMV game that I'd seen, even before I saw Terminator. the Pizza Hut on Pizza Hut Express on Northgate and El Camino had a little dining room and they always had some of the newest arcade games in there. And weirdly enough, I remember they had a Ninja Turtles and I remember one of the ones they got that was really good was they had a Captain America and the Avengers. They had the original Ninja Turtles, of course. They had a Funhouse. And so when Ninja Turtles showed up, I was pretty taken with it. And it felt really high-tech at the moment. Like, I was like, oh, my gosh, man. You know, that Matrix display and, you know, spinning discs. The action figures was always the thing that I was like, oh, it's got, like, off-the-shelf action figures on it. How chintzy. But I thought it was a cool game. You know, it's not the best player, for sure. I didn't ever run into reliability problems with it. Maybe they didn't have it that long. Maybe they didn't play it that much. I don't know. It was a cool game. I was excited to see it. I thought it was a really good-looking game. You know, I always thought it was a bit of an ugly decoy. Like, I think it's not as bad as everyone says it is, but it certainly isn't great.
    132:49
    Well, I remember it stuck out in an arcade lineup because it was green. Yeah. And that's just a color you didn't see. It was very green. It was green. And that stuck out. And they had that topper that said, like, what, play pinball, dude, or something like that. Yeah, Cowabunga, dude, play pinball. Yeah. Play pinball, dude. Yeah. Yeah, not a terrible game. I never played it until, you know, shows. years later, you know. So I don't have, and I've played a handful of games, but I really don't have anything else to say about it. You guys have the set already. It ain't great. It ain't terrible. If you find one, give it a flip. What the hell is pinball? Just expect the plunder to not work. Expect the plunder to not work. Okay, we are on to Gottlieb Premier. We're almost done, boys, because everybody's getting tired. Because Alex had a guitar and didn't hold their asses up. There's no birthday party for me here. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's getting late. But that's okay, man. We're having a great time. We'll get through this and get everybody home. It's been a great show so far. We're running a little long tonight. Anyway. That's what she said. There you go. Hey-o.
    133:52
    Golly, Premiere had some real good hits this year. We're going to start it off with Cactus Jacks. Never played it. I love that game. Every time I see the show, I get a couple plays on it. Dancing cacti, wearing glasses and sombreros. It's a weird game.
    134:11
    The first time I saw it, just like you mentioned, it had the dancing cactuses, cacti in the back. And the reason I remember thinking that was so neat and cool to see, because that was the year when the hot gift for Christmas, I really wanted when my parents were absolutely dead set, they had that flower in the flower pot with the glasses that would dance. Remember those stupid things? I wanted one. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And that's what I remember. That's what tied into me. But it was a fun year in this bar. and you can throw watermelon and... Yeah. It was a fun, quirky, godly game that was definitely one of those weird, independent-themed games where it's just... It'd be one of those ones where it'd be interesting to sit down like when they're talking, hey, I got this idea for a game. We're in this bar and there's dancing cacti and you get into a food fight. What, are you going to beat people up because you had too much to drink? No. We're going to throw fruit. Because it's a Texas bar. It's like, so what, they're going to beat up the gay people or something? No. Dancing cactus with sunglasses. All right, go with it. I know, right? It's a weird game, but it's fun. It's so quirky and fun. I love fun. I wouldn't want to own one. I will play it, but it's not one of those I desire to own. It's just weird, and I like the weird stuff. The weirdest thing about that game is the layout. Well, the layout's fun, but the inserts on that game, man, there's just no rhyme or reason. There's just a ball of inserts in the middle of the play field. I think there's, like, you know what? Joe from accounting ordered too many inserts. Yeah. He says they got to go. It's like, just put them on the game, kids. And, again, it's one of those games that kind of sticks out, too. Everything, let's go. Nothing can stay. I think it's yellow. You know, it's brightly colored. There's nothing wrong with that. Again, it was just It was a gauntlet And they were just They were overpowered They were in third place At that point Yeah Not through any fault Of their own, but Look, we're going to get To a reason why They should have been In first place But they just weren't Yeah, we're going to get To a couple reasons why And I know where We're going with this Anybody got anything else? I'll say one last thing about it There was one Before I moved down here There was one At the casino Outside of Oroville They had two arcades They had an arcade In the casino Where you could send the kids And then they had a Foley now would have an arcade. Where you could sit with the kids. Up above the second floor by the buffet, Little Corner Arcade had a dozen video games, a couple of, like, crane games, and they had a Cactus Jacks. And if I was out in that area working, I'd go and get a really cheap buffet lunch, and I'd go play a couple free games of Cactus Jacks. But an arcade is long gone, sadly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A casino is back. 20 plus years ago. Do you have a The Indian Casino is? Yeah. We used to do team meetings there. Yeah. Yeah, so that's well over 20, or it was 20 years ago.
    137:11
    Carhop up next. I love Carhop. Damn, you got a smile. I love Carhop. And I've got one sitting in my game room. I like Carhopping. I think that might be the only Carhop I've ever played. I know it's the only Carhop I've ever played. I think if that game was more places, I think people would talk about it more. I think that's such a fun game. It's got that 50s diner thing. It's got that, it's a super flat game, but it's got really fun shots. It does. Car Hop, it's like you just, once you pop, it's like the Pringles of pinball, man. Once you pop, you can't stop. And your hand gets stuck. And Scott leaves the answer to diner. It is. Sometimes you've got to let those things go. Well, you know, all of those sweet little games are so much fun. They really are. They really did a nice job. And it wasn't until just a few short years ago that people started to appreciate how good they really are. and yeah, that's the thing, when I got the Car Hop it's like, dude, this is so damn fun and it's just again, it's just fun If you don't talk to Todd about buying that, I'm going to buy it out from under you You're probably going to end up buying it out from under you Well, fuck it buy it then, motherfucker Or we can just borrow it forever I remember seeing Car Hop for the first time at the Boardwalk on one of the trips, we used to go there a couple times every summer and the main arcade at the Boardwalk years ago used to have like what, four aisles of pinball machines? They had all sorts of cool stuff and unlike the Boardwalk of today, they were all maintained. And they had a car off. And I remember being drawn in because of the sounds. You could play with the chimes. I liked the chimes. I was like, that was really neat. And what Dan said goes. It's a fun game. It shoots well. It's neat. It's something you don't see all the time. It's definitely underappreciated. Yeah. Freaking awesome. If you can find one, play it, buy it, have fun with it. It's one of the Gottlieb Street level games. They made, what, five or six different titles on the street level games? I think so. First one was Silver Slugger, which I desperately want. I love Silver Slugger. Everyone loves Silver Slugger. What's his name? Hoops? You remember, I think it was like four years ago. A prize fight? A title fight? Yeah. A prize fight, yeah. Which had the cool back box animations. It's funny because four years ago, Tyler was desperately trying to get rid of the Silver Slugger and couldn't find a buyer. I almost bought it and something came up I was going to buy it off him I was talking with him Something came up I didn't buy it I kicked myself I love that game Not a lot more to say about it You've got to play If you can find one Call me if you're in the area Come over and play We need to do a little work on it It's definitely not at it's best It's playing pretty good It probably needs to be leveled a little better It's got some shit shop jobs, some lights, and some rubbers. That can't be badass.
    139:56
    You know what? I'll make a list, get it ordered in the next few weeks, and we'll get it done. Up next is what I have the most fun playing this game, The Last Pinagogo. Speaking of bizarre games. Yeah, Class of 1812.
    140:13
    Love it. Awesome game. Absolutely awesome. It's so goofy. It is. The beating heart is so fucking cool. And that's what drew me into it again. Saw it at the boardwalk and I saw the beating heart. I was like, this has got a heart. This game's going to be cool. It starts beating and all of a sudden, what do you hear?
    140:33
    Ah, yeah! That's so cool. It's like, dude, it's so... It's so fucking stupid. But it's hilarious. That game is fucking clown shoes. It is. But it's so well done. Russ and I played 20 games on that thing at the last Go-Go. It's fun, and it's always it's, again, it's a pinball machine that's fun.
    140:59
    It's definitely the empty piece of a lot of Williams games. It doesn't take itself seriously. It has blocking chickens in it, for God's sake. Shattered team comes eating rubber heart. Yeah, and of all the games that year, I think it's the one that really has any value.
    141:12
    That game is, yeah. Like, it's not expensive, compared to a WPC and stuff like that, but I mean, compared to the other compared to a car hop they're going to pay some money for it because of your deal is becoming very sought after and the value continues to rise though yeah well because one of those games you just have to you know if you collect games and you have a lot of space and you want to own something weird yeah and you can't buy Alex because there's only one of them and we're keeping it we're not selling them unless he's late again we'll talk to his parents yeah we're going to play the 1812 yeah it's a fun weird game and it's just I guess it brings back that memory of just, you know, when everything had to be so damn serious. Yeah. And it's just, it was fun. It was goofy. Everyone I ever seen play it, and I've never played it before, even if they have, they're like, this is so silly. But it's so fun. The silly horror theme never fails. How can you lose? How can you lose, you know?
    142:08
    We don't know what else to say about it other than that. If you've never played one, find one. Play it. It's available. isn't it available on the Pinball Arcade?
    142:19
    Yes, I believe it is. I believe it is, yeah. If you can't get the real one, check it out on a phone or a tablet device on the Pinball Arcade. It's cool.
    142:31
    And the last one up in the No, it's not the last one. Hoops. I have never seen and never played, but everybody I've talked to has played it. Oh, it's great. It's a new game. Yeah, it's a new game. Didn't we play a metric F ton of that game at California Extreme a couple years ago? My girl, yeah. The whole crew was on that, and there were a lot of four-player games going around. That is a fun, fun game. You were in on that, yeah. Yeah, that's a neat one. That's another one of the Godly Street levels, along with Car Hop and...
    143:10
    Cax Chats. Yeah, they're just, you know, it's weird to say. It's like, I don't really remember why the game was good. It was fun. It shot well. It's not just that it hasn't ran. Its theming was fine.
    143:25
    They just have a charm. They have a charm. It's like, they're so simple. They're so basic. They're so fun. Yeah. Like, you know, I guess it kind of comes down to what Brian was saying. They don't take themselves too seriously.
    143:39
    Right. And, you know, you're going to sit down, you're going to have a quick game. You don't need to have deep pinball knowledge. You're going to score some points. You're going to have a good time. I never saw one in the day. Never saw any of these got leads in the day.
    143:52
    Yeah, me neither. You know. You guys won't go to the run, okay? Yeah, we're not. Obviously, we should have been hanging out with Brian. We should have been in Sacramento. Livermore, for some reason, the main arcade always got new pinball machines. And the bowling alley did, too. I'm still working there. I left there in 1998. We always got the new pinball machines. I don't know why, but we did. You were a lucky man. We got one more from Gottlieb.
    144:16
    Surf and Safari. I've only played a couple games on it. It's quirky and fun. I don't get the charm. It's got its fans. It's a well-loved Gottlieb. Somebody's been looking for him for a while now, hopefully.
    144:29
    Putting ads up. Who has been? Somebody's putting out ads on the game. Somebody. It's a well, it's a love game. Yeah. I love the backlash because it's like it's a water slide theme park. It's got the cool loop-de-loop, and it's a great-looking game. I just never understood personally the desire behind it. Right. You know, I will say as a blanket for all the Gottlieb games, the one thing that I had over Williams and Data East, those games are built like goddamn tanks. They don't break. Right. They are incredibly well built. You mean the Gottliebs? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're tanks, man. We've got one more game, but not from Gottlieb. I don't think I've spent any meaningful time on Serpent's Apartment. Yeah, me too, neither. I think... If I've had one, then I'm sure I've at least played it once. A while back, I think... Wasn't it the PPM had one, I think, on... I played a few games on it. But it's worth checking out.
    145:23
    That's it from Golly Premier, but we do have one game from Alvin G that year. Alvin G and Co. Alvin Gottlieb and Co. entered back into the arena in 91 with AG Soccer Ball, which is a two-player head-to-head game. They made a couple of versions of it. I played at the Pinball Hall of Fame once by myself. Never seen one? Never played it. Never seen one? Never played it. Yeah.
    145:55
    It's rare. Excuse me. Yeah. That's all I know about it. We're at 2 hours and 26 minutes. Let's wrap this up, boys. Bless you. Any shout-outs, thank yous?
    146:09
    Who do I need to thank today? Shout-out to everybody. Thanks to Dan for the ride. Oh, to the house. Not the other one. Hello.
    146:19
    Thanks for watching. Thank you. We'll finish this tomorrow. Better Border Arcades open again on Saturday and Sunday. Go check that out. That's in Auburn, California. Press start if you have me in Reno. It's great. Ten bucks. New games. Friendly people. Well maintained. You might run into me and Alex there if you get lucky. I'll be back next month. I'm going to go end of October again. I'll see if that's next month. Alrighty. It is.
    146:51
    My shout outs. I'm just going to shout out to Clay Harrell. This old pinball podcast. Top cast. This guy, he hasn't put out a podcast in several years But some of the best pinball podcasts ever produced And if you're newer to the hobby Or you're just not aware of them Check out Top Cap, this old pinball I was just thinking about it And these are some really, really great shows Oh God, those are classics They are Dan was around back then I don't know if you guys were But those were in response to the infamous Gary Cubeta podcast And if you want to just if you're bored and you really want to look up a shit show, just go to RGP and just Google Gary Cubeta. That's all I'm going to say about it. Gary Robot Translator 2000. Gary, Gary, Gary. Invest in gold, gold, gold. Gary, Gary. Chris Hutchins. Yeah. It's an amazing story. I'm not going to get into it. I've not heard this story. Well, we don't have this kind of time. Maybe a new segment for next week. He was one of the prototypical RGP trolls.
    148:01
    There was one guy before him. That's Kenea at the moment. But Kenea doesn't have anything on this guy's trolling. Clay Harrell, he's a shaggy, I believe. Yeah, Pinball Ninja. He's great. He is great. He's a real asset to the hobby. He put out some great shows, so check him out.
    148:20
    My other little weird shout-out. There's been a lot of weird stuff going on in the world. The COVID. other stuff. I hope not. It causes stress in everybody's lives. Trust me, I've felt it a lot lately. But pinballs are an escape. And if you're out there and you're just going, you know, like, geez louise, it's a day and I just don't know if I can, how do I navigate this? Reach out to me at thespinnerslit at gmail.com. We can link up. We can text. We can talk on the phone. If you just want to talk pinball or just, you know, throw out weirdness. Let me interject here. What Spencer's trying to say is that, you know, if you like piña coladas, getting lost in the rain, if you like making love in the beaches, he's the guy. You are a man. And doing cocaine. Yeah. I've got a call. Doing lots of cocaine. Anyway. Hey, Spencer's not into yoga. He's more into champagne. And I ain't talking about pants. Didn't you, Spencer, recall? I had a moment of seriousness. He'll be there for the win. You guys peed on that. That's okay. I had a good time. It's pinball, man. It's supposed to be fun. You said you needed a shower. I did, yes. A golden one, yes.
    149:35
    He loves to talk on the phone. I do. And he's a deep, sensitive man. And always asking what he's wearing.
    149:42
    Always. I'm wearing a bug killer costume. Bug man. You're going to fall. Bug man. Okay, so you can listen to us, I think, still on iTunes. I don't think there's booters yet. I'm not sure about... ACAP. The dozens and dozens of Spinner's Lit. And our home at SoundCloud.
    150:01
    We have great reviews tonight. Yeah, this is the Spinner's Lit episode 34. And everybody take care out there and play pinball. Keep America strong!
    150:15
    Torture your board to spin it. Everybody's got a camera. Keep watching. Y'all have a good one. Y'all know you're a cackle on the table. Yeah, good night. Dude, we could not. The younger kid is not.