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Episode 28 - Die on this Hill: Sharkey's Shootout

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·37m 37s·analyzed·Apr 29, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Mitch defends underrated Stern 2000 Sharky's Shootout as a well-designed, fun shooter despite harsh internet criticism.

Summary

Mitch from Pinball Over Boston defends Sharky's Shootout (Stern, 2000) on the 'Die on This Hill' segment, arguing it's an underrated game with excellent layout pedigree from John Borg, fun mechanics (magic eight ball ramp, outlane post saves, valuable bumper pool mode), thematic coherence with Jeanette Lee, and accessible wizard mode. Internet critics pan it as cheap-feeling, bland, visually awkward, and inferior to 8-Ball Deluxe despite being its spiritual successor.

Key Claims

  • Sharky's Shootout had only 200 copies made (later corrected to 800)

    medium confidence · Mitch and hosts discuss production numbers; Alan notes 'I have in my notes here, it says they sold 800 of these' after initially referencing 200.

  • Sharky's Shootout was the only Stern game in the U.S. market with outlane post buttons and center post (a European legal restriction feature)

    high confidence · Alex explains: 'I think that Sharky Shootout was the only game they did in the U.S. with those' outlane post saves, noting European models like Lord of the Rings also had this feature for legal reasons.

  • Sharky's Shootout was Stern's first pinball machine with ethernet connectivity

    high confidence · Mitch states: 'This is the first Stern pinball machine with insider connected sort of... Yeah, what is connectivity? Yeah, explain it to the listener. They tried connectivity on this game with an ethernet cable.'

  • The game features Jeanette Lee (The Black Widow), a world pool champion, as the game host with her likeness on the translite

    high confidence · Mitch explains: 'it does feature the likeness of tournament pool pro Jeanette Lee, aka the Black Widow. Yeah, it has her name listed on the translite.'

  • Sharky's Shootout was designed by John Borg with concept/software by Dwight Sullivan, marking the end of the Sega-era Stern dream team

    high confidence · Mitch: 'John Borg is the game designer... This is the end of the Sega-era Stern Pinball dream team of John Borg, Dwight Sullivan, and the art by Yowsey.'

  • The game has an average PinSide rating of 7.234, tied with CSI at #230 on their top 300 list, five reviews shy of official listing

    high confidence · Alan states: 'It's currently five approved reviews shy on PinSide to be officially listed onto their top 300 list, but it currently has an average score of 7.234, which would place it number 230 out of 300 tied with CSI.'

  • 8-Ball Deluxe sold 13,000 units across three production runs and was the first game in the original 8-Ball series to sell over 20,000 units

    medium confidence · Alan: '8-Ball Deluxe they reran three times they sold 13,000 of them. The original 8-Ball game that 8-Ball Deluxe was the sequel for, that was the first game to sell over 20,000 units.'

Notable Quotes

  • “In my naivete, saying in my mind at that time I was like, well the only thing better than 8-Ball Deluxe is going to be an 8-Ball Deluxe with the DMD and a ramp. That's all I needed.”

    Mitch @ ~5:20 — Core reason Mitch loves Sharky's Shootout—it improves on the classic 8-Ball Deluxe layout with modern features.

  • “What more do you want in this world?”

    Mitch @ ~18:00 — Rhetorical conclusion to Mitch's opening defense; encapsulates his enthusiasm for the game's completeness.

  • “If the ball falls out of the pops, it's like timed super pops at a million. All you have to do is, you can shoot another bumper, put it back into the scoop or there's a target, a stand target, the big green target in the middle of the play field that people shit on.”

    Mitch @ ~12:45 — Defends the controversial bumper/scoop mechanic by explaining its strategic depth and scoring potential.

  • “I will never disparage those drop targets. I won't stand for it.”

    Alex @ ~37:00 — Passionate defense of the game's mechanical quality against reviews claiming cheap flippers/drops.

  • “Dismal play and almost no redeeming qualities other than the backglass art.”

    Nitro Mikey (review) @ ~25:30 — Example of harsh internet criticism that motivated Mitch's defense.

  • “An okay game which is fun to play in arcade and a timeless theme but as a former owner there are elements that pushed it out of my collection... Kind of an uncomfortable mix of classic elements and new elements which long term seem to be an annoying slash rather than either a fun throwback or a great contemporary unit.”

    Rachel Strong (review) @ ~22:00 — Articulates the 'uncanny valley' criticism of Sharky's blending retro and modern design—a key tension in the discourse.

  • “They've taken a previously boring and bland game and added some ramps and toys to make it worth playing.”

    Medieval Gopher (review) @ ~56:00 — Review that especially infuriated Alan by dismissing 8-Ball Deluxe (a classic) as 'boring and bland.'

Entities

Sharky's ShootoutgameMitchpersonAlanpersonAlexpersonJohn BorgpersonDwight SullivanpersonJohn YowseypersonJeanette Leeperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Sharky's Shootout receives harsh criticism from internet reviewers but is defended passionately by operator Mitch, who emphasizes playability, mechanical quality, and design depth. Reviewers cite cheap aesthetics, bland gameplay, and awkward design hybridization; defenders cite functional mechanics, balanced scoring, and layout pedigree.

    high · Multiple negative PinSide/forum reviews contrasted with Mitch's detailed mechanical and strategic defenses; Rachel Strong critique of 'uncanny valley' mixing classic/modern; Medieval Gopher's dismissal of 8-Ball Deluxe as 'boring and bland' versus Alan's reverence for the original design.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Sharky's Shootout has low production run (800 units) and is seldom found on location, creating rarity value. Secondary market interest compared implicitly to JJP's Pirates of the Caribbean, which commands $20k-40k despite potentially smaller production. Hosts suggest Sharky's Shootout may be undervalued relative to rarity.

    medium · Mitch: 'It's a treasure. Spent on Sharky's Shootout. A game so nice, they made it twice. Golden Cue, Sharky's.' Alan and Mitch discuss production numbers and rarity; Alex notes he wouldn't find another Sharky's on location soon; comparison to Pirates of the Caribbean pricing.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Sharky's Shootout represents a transitional design philosophy—updating a classic layout (8-Ball Deluxe) with modern technology (DMD, ramps, ethernet) while retaining mechanical simplicity. This creates polarized reception: some love the blend, others find it aesthetically and functionally incoherent.

    high · Rachel Strong review: 'uncomfortable mix of classic elements and new elements which long term seem to be an annoying slash rather than either a fun throwback or a great contemporary unit.' Mitch and Alex explicitly prefer this hybrid approach; Medieval Gopher praises updating 8-Ball Deluxe with modern features.

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.113

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'mma tell you right now. I ain't crazy. This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money. Don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? I got something I want to say. Law, you motherfuckers. Think you know who Teddy Powers is? Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a T under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan, host of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast and one of the owners of Wedgehead Pinball Bar in Portland, Oregon. Joined here for another episode with my co-host Alex, the water boy in his basement studio. Hey, howdy. Today we're also joined by our friend Mitch, who operates games over on the East Coast under the name Pinball Over Boston. Mitch, how are you doing today? Wonderful, boys. Thanks for having me back. Happy to have you here. And so we're doing an episode of this Die on This Hill, which is a recurring segment on our show if you're a new listener where you have decided to pick a game to defend that the people of the internet don't care for too much mitch what game are you defending for us today stern pinballs sharky's shootout yes this is a great one for the show sharky shootout is a pool themed pinball machine released by stern in the year 2000 dwight sullivan is credited with the concept as well as software with Lonnie Ropp and Keith Johnson. John Borg is the game designer, but it's also kind of a sneakily themed game since it does feature the likeness of tournament pool pro Jeanette Lee, aka the Black Widow. Yeah, it has her name listed on the translate. They want you to know. But it's also very clearly an homage, maybe slash ripoff of the George Christian masterpiece eight ball deluxe very similar layout with ramps and some toys it's currently five approved reviews shy on pin side to be officially listed onto their top 300 list but it currently has an average score of 7.234 which would place it number 230 out of 300 tied with csi csi another banger from that era so we've got to ask you mitch why sharky shootout why do you love it why is it a great game that's a great question do you have the answer yes so i'm long story short if you listened to my last episode my i'm an operator here in boston and my first ever location flat tub johnny's get it at johnny's is a pool hall so when i was starting out i needed to figure out i need one pool themed game so i had to do the research i tried to get my hands on every single pool themed game from eight vault eight vault lux target pool pool sharks there are more than you I would think. And Break Shot, I was considering. Break Shot, yeah. Q-Ball was, yeah, there are a ton of them. Mm-hmm. I had a lot of experience with 8-Ball Deluxe, and I had an 8-Ball Deluxe Limited Edition. Are you familiar with those? Oh, yeah, in the special cabinet. The Hyper Ball cabinet or whatever that is? I had to move that game. You know, being an operator, you move games a lot. And after owning an 8-Ball Deluxe LE and moving it once, I'm like, never again. I got rid of it. I just was so frustrated with it. But I always fell in love with that layout, which that beautiful bank of drop targets on the right and the inline drop targets, like, you know, the layout, it was just a fun shooter. So when I saw there was a Sharky shootout, you know, I was into pinball, but I was like, oh, man, they really got away with one. This game looked just like 8-Ball Deluxe. I wonder if anybody noticed that. Yeah. In my naivete. saying in my mind at that time i was like well the only thing better than eight ball deluxe is going to be an eight ball deluxe with the dmd and a ramp that's all i needed i like i'm a sucker for a ramp so just pedigree i would say is one of the one of the reasons i like it that layout is just fun to shoot like i love shooting at drop targets i love a good ramp uh the ramp on sharky shootout is a pretty neat mech if you're unfamiliar with it it's a steel ramp on the left side that hooks over very quickly to a magic eight ball that has a magnet inside of it so when it's activated the you hit the ramp shot the magic eight ball will grab the ball and give you a mystery award which is unbalanced but there's some fun stuff and they can get a free multi ball a fun combo mode and it's just a fun toy the magic eight ball one of the other things i want to mention was on a previous episode episode 17 you talked about great extra button gimmicks sharky shootout has i think a pretty great extra button there's there are four buttons on each side and the additional buttons on the left and right activate posts in the left and out left and right out lane and if you hit both of them at the same time it puts up a center post um have you ever played a game that has that feature no i've played games with definitely the uprising center post but no game other than golden cue which was a abandoned game that stern kind of did with this sort of layout beforehand But yeah, for the listener, it's like you have extra flipper buttons on the cabinets, one on each side. And if you hit the left one, the left post goes up. If you hit the right one, the right post goes up, blocking the out lane. So if you time it right, you can block a drain going out the out lane. If the ball is going straight down the middle, you can press them both in at the same time, and a center post comes up from below your flippers and prevents you from draining. Can I give a little more context on this? that whole thing with the with the double buttons and the outline posts and the center post was all because of some european restriction on pinball machines and stern started adding that to european models of games because that way it was like legally a game of skill it was kind of like what happened here back in like the interesting 40s and so you can find european copies of like lord of the rings or other and maybe not lord of the rings but there's other sterns out there that were like sold to the european market with those double buttons and posts installed wow and i I think that Sharky Shootout was the only game they did in the U.S. with those. The posts on the outside also kind of look like pool cues. You know, just the plastic that they use, they look like pool cues. So it's thematic. They did a nice job. There is a pool cue inside going up to pool balls strategically placed. When you look at sterns that are released today, there's just a lot of plastic pieces. They spent some money putting this game together. As I say, it's from that era where they were still putting a lot into the materials under the glass. This is a transition year, too. This is the end of the Sega-era Stern Pinball Dream Team of John Borg, Dwight Sullivan, and the art by Yowsey. The rules in this game, they're not the deepest compared to Lord of the Rings, but you've got some interesting rules that Dwight threw into this game where there are different characters you have to play pool against. You can either play them in 8-ball or 9-ball, and the drop targets behave in different ways. nine balls not that tough and then depending on who you're playing pool against there's a perk associated with it so if you're playing pool against tex and you start multi-ball it's like super small it's stampede multi-ball and like your jackpots are double and then there's an alien that makes your combos more valuable so it's just like nice little touches there and i find the scoring to be very balanced across the game like if you just kind of go for everything and everything's fun to do you're just kind of getting your five million you 10 million all the way along and we We can probably get to it later, but people will poo-poo. There's a big, the pop bumper is at the top of the play field. There's a large scoop that the ball falls into. Falls into all the time. Yeah. It goes, but hold, let me defend that.

  • The bumper pool mode (triggered by completing Q-C-U-E lanes) can award up to $100 million just from pop scoring

    high confidence · Mitch: 'you can get $100 million for just pop-up rates. It's great.'

  • “It's a treasure. Spent on Sharky's Shootout. A game so nice, they made it twice. Golden Cue, Sharky's.”

    Mitch @ ~58:30 — Highlights the rarity and uniqueness of Sharky's Shootout as one of only two U.S. versions of this layout.

  • “I'd much rather play Sharkies. I've played both and I'd much rather play Sharkies.”

    Alex @ ~59:00 — Direct comparison favoring Sharky's Shootout over JJP's Pirates of the Caribbean, a highly collectible and expensive game.

  • “Because it's fun to shoot the drops, and then you're getting them, the targets behind them.”

    Mitch @ ~41:00 — Explains the interplay between drop targets and stand-up targets, defending the game's mechanical design philosophy.

    • George Christian
    person
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Wedgehead Pinball Podcastorganization
    Die on This Hillevent
    8-Ball Deluxegame
    Golden Cuegame
    PinSideorganization
    Wedgehead Pinball Barvenue
    Pinball Over Bostonorganization
    Johnny Pinball'svenue
    Next Levelvenue
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    Beatles Goldgame
    Black Knightgame
    Lonnie D. Roppperson
    Keith P. Johnsonperson

    design_innovation: Sharky's Shootout features extra button controls for outlane post saves (dual-button center post activation), a feature born from European legal restrictions on pinball as games of skill. Notably, it was the only Stern U.S. release with this mechanic, making it mechanically unique.

    high · Alex: 'That whole thing with the double buttons and the outlane posts and the center post was all because of some European restriction on pinball machines... I think that Sharky Shootout was the only game they did in the U.S. with those.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Sharky's Shootout was Stern's first pinball with ethernet connectivity, enabling online tournament play similar to Golden Tee. Feature was not widely adopted but has been revived by third-party servers, demonstrating early interest in networked arcade experiences.

    high · Mitch: 'This is the first Stern pinball machine with insider connected sort of... They tried connectivity on this game with an ethernet cable... I don't think it was very successful but they somebody got like a third party server running for that now.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Sharky's Shootout's bumper pool mode (Q-C-U-E completion) awards escalating pop values up to $1M per hit, with potential to reach $100M total. This transforms bumper scoring from negligible to strategically important, aligning with classic EM philosophy of valuable pops.

    high · Mitch: 'So when it completes the top lanes for Q, C-U-E, it starts bumper pool... every time it falls into that hole, the amount of the bumper pool will increase... you can get $100 million for just pop-up rates.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Sharky's Shootout features a distinctive steel left-side ramp with quick hook to a magnet-activated magic eight ball that awards mystery bonuses (free multiball, combo modes). Combines physical toy with rule depth.

    high · Mitch: 'The ramp on Sharky Shootout is a neat mech... it's a steel ramp on the left side that hooks over very quickly to a magic eight ball that has a magnet inside of it.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Operators and location players (Mitch, Alex, Alan) strongly prefer Sharky's Shootout for playability, layout, and mechanical depth. Internet reviewers (primarily collectors/casual players) criticize aesthetics, theme coherence, and cost-to-gameplay ratio. Clear venue-type divide in appreciation.

    high · Mitch operates machines professionally and passionately defends; multiple internet reviews from owners who sold machines after short ownership; Alan notes internet critics are 'idiots all over the internet.'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Sharky's Shootout (2000) marked the end of the Sega-era Stern design dream team of John Borg, Dwight Sullivan, and Yowsey. It represents a transitional moment in Stern's design philosophy before the departure of key personnel.

    medium · Mitch: 'This is the end of the Sega-era Stern Pinball dream team of John Borg, Dwight Sullivan, and the art by Yowsey.' Mentioned as context for game's deliberate mechanical richness and finish quality.

  • ?

    operational_signal: Mitch selected Sharky's Shootout specifically for his pool hall location (Johnny Pinball's), as it was one of few pool-themed pinball machines available. Demonstrates operational decision-making based on venue IP fit.

    high · Mitch: 'if you listened to my last episode, I'm an operator here in Boston and my first ever location, a flat tub, Johnny Pinball's—get it, at Johnny Pinball's—is a pool hall. So when I was starting out I needed to figure out, I need one pool themed game.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Sharky's Shootout exemplifies a broader pattern in pinball community where internet consensus (especially on PinSide) diverges sharply from operator/location player experience. Reviewers who owned machines briefly cite intangible dissatisfaction; operators who maintain machines praise mechanical execution.

    high · Multiple reviews: 'I owned this for just over a month... felt really cheap,' 'I purchased one for a good price before playing it, and it only lasted in my collection a couple months.' Contrasted with Mitch's prolonged use and enjoyment.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Sharky's Shootout had approximately 800 units produced (revised from initial 200 estimate), making it a relatively rare Stern release. Low production run combined with limited secondary market visibility creates perception of greater rarity than actual availability might warrant.

    medium · Alan: 'I have in my notes here, it says they sold 800 of these. That's what I have.' Mitch: 'It still seems Papa Duke rare. Yeah. 100 is a very low production run.'

    • 8:49
    One of the scoring features I actually like about Sharky Shootout is when you complete the top lanes for Q, C-U-E, it starts bumper pool. And leave the Q stick. and it's basically super pops that every time it falls into that hole the amount of the bumper pool will increase so if it keeps falling in there you can get your pops up to a million per hit and you can keep that going forever if the ball falls out of the pops it's like timed super pops at a million all you have to do is you can shoot another pop bumper put it back into the scoop or there a target a stand target the big green target in the middle of the play field that people shit on But that'll extend your timer. So it's like a really risky shot. So if you have pops up to a million a hit, and they'll start flashing quicker and quicker when your time is running out, you can risk it and just blast that target to extend your million pops, bring in a multi-ball. And you can get $100 million for just pop-up rates. It's pretty great. I enjoy that. Yeah, I do like any game that makes pops actually important because I feel like so often they're just there to park the ball. We're big EM guys, so it's like having valuable pops is important to us. So it's cool to see a game in 2000 with a DMD, a more modern game, have pops that actually mean something, that actually score something valuable. Yeah. Not just there as a placeholder. I think you've fled a good case. I'm not done. Oh, okay. I'm not done. I'm just that's that's my opening argument son I hope you're sitting down okay I've got more points this is the first Stern pinball machine with insider connected sort of yeah what is connectivity yeah explain it to the listener they tried connectivity on this game with an ethernet cable yes um so this was at a time where Stern was experimenting with ethernet cables into the games so that each game could be connected uh ever excuse me every sharky shootout could be connected all 200 uh for high score tournaments that you would log into similar with like a golden tee um i don't think it was very successful but they somebody got like a third party server running for that now if we get the guys at next level to hook theirs up to the internet will they see yours oh my god that would be incredible that would be incredible the first east coast west coast sharky shootout tournament oh my bad yeah that would be a lot of fun yeah it was when i was looking at the flyer earlier i'm like oh i forgot about that and when i had the game it came with all the cables um but one other thing i'll say in favor of the game is the theme with jeanette lee like that's good representation where you have somebody that is at the top of their game she was a world pool champion but also her humor is in the game similar to like elvira owning her hotness like jeanette lee like is a good pinball host like she has good call outs in the game you're waiting for me to cry and that being said speaking of the call outs the it what's the uh the famous pinball voice actor fred is it fred young are you familiar with that name yeah fred young's done a bunch of call outs tim kittrow's done a bunch of call outs steve ritchie of course yeah the calls in the game there's like cute one-liners um so just i think it works really well for the whole theme together and it it helps you telling it wants to tell you what to shoot for so i think it's an easy to play game that is a very enjoyable to shoot with a john bork layout it shoots really nice scoring is balanced and there's fun toys what more do you want in this world oh and also it has a difficult but not impossible to achieve wizard mode that's actually very fun to play you know south park like that's just like grindy boring you get to the wizard mode it's just more the same like this is like sharkies i feel like a new-ish player could walk up and start to learn the game and understand what you're trying to do and then work their way to an achievable wizard mode which is a good thrill for for players like somebody walking up to a modern stern game a new player isn't going to see that wizard mode for like years i think yeah yeah 100 way too long to get to wizard modes in modern games i feel like pretty strong defense i would say that's probably the most well-rounded one we've maybe seen shoot on uh dying this hill well sharky speaks for itself like you bring a great fucking game to die in this hill it's gonna shine you know Well, unfortunately, that is not the consensus take, which is why you're here. Like I said. You've been on the internet again? I told you to stay off the internet. We're talking to people on the internet. Idiots. Yeah. So we're going to read these bad reviews to you. I think maybe Alex and I will alternate these. We'll just get your kind of reactions to them, okay? The first one from knucklehead at shithead.com.
    13:27
    The first one is Rachel Strong says. Sorry, I'm sassy. no i understand you got your sacred cow and sharky suit out and we're talking about slaughtering it right now so you're a little bit you're a little bit concerned all right rachel hit me with your worst so rachel says an okay game which is fun to play in arcade and a timeless theme but as a former owner there are elements that pushed it out of my collection it has an ugly back box a non-classic feel yet it was not terribly forward leaning enough to be a top tier modern era pen kind of an uncomfortable mix of classic elements and new elements which long term seem to be an annoying clash rather than either a fun throwback or a great contemporary unit i think that's interesting i now that i'm thinking about it but i lean on the other side of that where i enjoy the mix of modern and throwback i think that's like one of the pluses of the games like it reminds me of eight ball deluxe with modern theme i would like modern elements to it i like see i would like to see more of that i'd like to see more stuff like this where we maybe do like modern games modern take on an old layout and stuff so it's funny to see someone be exactly the opposite like it sounds like to me she's like i like modern pins and i like throwback pins she's like but this is like an uncanny valley to me of like in between and she doesn't like it as i said like i i like the the modern field to a classic like i have a beatles gold and i i really enjoy that that's a fun fucking game a game that's a very fun yeah and it's like i know it's probably sacrilege to say to you guys i'd rather play beatles than a sea witch i'm sorry don't don't hang up i'm gonna surprise you right now mitch i like beatles better than sea witch yeah it's nice i'm able to actually loop the upper loop yes the no shit like the loop is so much fun george gomez fixed that design which i think had potential but it was clunky and i wish i love the classic throwback art and i do like it but that upper loop is whack on sea witch is bad as much as i love classic solid states i that's the one where i'm like beatles actually did this and did it well getting back to getting back to converting you guys to borg's work here on shargey's though nitro mikey does not think he did it better he says dismal play and almost no redeeming qualities other than the back glass art not a good start for the new stern you ever play videos before which kind of dates the review Yeah, there's a transition period for Stern, but if you look underneath this game, they threw the whole kitchen sink under there. Like, the mechs, it's eight drop targets that are individually activated and have memory there. It's an impressive mech, and, like, it's a pretty stocked game. They put a lot of shit in there. Yeah. He says dismal play, though. Dismal, almost no redeeming qualities other than the back glass art. So I guess shout out to John Yowsey and his back glass there.
    16:19
    And Jeanette looks killer in this game. Yeah. There's a big gray alien. He's one of the characters you play pool against. I like that. Yeah, I like that. Yes, and it's a ripoff of the American Dad alien. Yeah. It's just like a... So the next guy we got, we got DjangoJeff71 says, Truly one of the worst games I have ever played. It is the only game that I think I played at the Expo and just walked away from. Stern has done a great job in recent years, but this one is flat out ugly i don't believe you eddie i think you're still a loser wow to him dude it's just um go play transformers i guess whoa shots fired i'm curious what do you see about transformers that's that was a big transformers and that's but it's probably not a beloved game um i don't know i don't know how to respond to i guess it's i can see how it's not for everybody It doesn't have like your traditional like stardom mode here. Go for this lit shots like you kind of have to figure it out a little bit more. That's an interesting point. I think it's immediately a fun one for my time. It's been a little while since I played it, but I thought it wasn't a media fun one to shoot. My complaint was the posts on the copy I played was a friendly copy and had those posts. And I realized once I realized what the post did, I could just play forever. Yeah. And so like if I were to leave a review, those are hard to relate. No, it's Sharky's. You have to relate them. See, now Alex is talking about playing Golden Cue, which is the same layout. And they just worked all the time. They were unlimited. So that's like the Europe setup.
    17:58
    That's a huge difference. I got to go play this game again. Yeah, and Shark is you're given at the start of your game, you're given the two outlane saves and the middle save. But once you use them, you can use all three. Behind the drop targets are stand-up targets that spell payout. And you have to complete those to get your... It's fun to go for. Yeah, that's cool. Because it's fun to shoot the drops, and then you're getting them – the targets behind them. Yeah, I like that era. This is the era of Sterns that have those big, fat, white drop targets on them, right? Yeah. I love those things. They actually, like, work. And they drop, like, softly. It's nice. Yeah, for some reason, they just feel good. Better than the Scolari brothers in Ghostbusters, right? Right? He's better than the Scolari brothers. Yeah, exactly. Like, I – knock on wood, I never had problems with those drops. Like they always like the ball can like graze them and they will go down Oh man You so lucky When you need them you like oh yeah okay hoop john though back to the pin side reviews says i owned this for just over a month it incredible how much of a difference there is between an early stern like sharkies and a good stern like lord of the rings these machines are three years apart but a universe apart when it comes to gameplay sharkies flippers and drop targets look and feel cheap right after we're done complimenting them finishes to date i haven't found anything that really draws me into this game your results may vary be a damn fool yeah i insulting the hardware to compare directly after i hadn't read ahead but i'm like insulting the hardware directly after we're like i love these drop targets and he's like drop targets suck and you're like what are you i love them dude i'm personally offended hoop john like i i'm not taking that i don't think the flippers because What did he say, the flippers feel cheap? The flippers are essentially the same mech. They've changed them a little bit, but not... Did they even change them before Lord of the Rings, though? Because Lord of the Rings people bitch about those flippers, too. Yeah, okay, so what... The thing is, until the flippers can crack walnuts like a good old data east, people will bitch. These are the same mechs. The problem is that people just weren't maintaining the mechs. This is like back when people were playing this and they were a bad operator in a dirty bar. They never got rebuilt. so they're kind of spongy and weird like if you rebuild them they they feel great they feel strong snappy you can make all the shots they're reliable dude and i will i will never disparage those drop targets i won't stand for it maybe they're ugly maybe that's it maybe they're kind of like chunky and ugly but they're definitely very functional they're endearing in appearance or the drop target to love yeah they're just plus size drop targets all right so i like this one this is a short one crab spirit says never got into the game made me just want to play pool instead no bar no pinball machines no bowling alleys just pool nothing else i guess that's good it's executing on its theme yeah it's thematic boom yeah i don't know i feel like that's a side of a good trick tonight i want to go fly a spaceship yeah it's like every time i play godzilla i usually end up being like i kind of want to go watch godzilla movie yeah watching a movie takes about as long as a decent game of godzilla true but like speaking of like like wanting to go play pool like i loved having the sharky shootout at flat tops as a pool hall because like there are physical pool balls in there the cue is in there it's like i felt it was the pool theme perfected until we got to can i divert a little bit and talk about eight ball beyond yeah sure are you familiar with this homebrew yeah sean irby is a seattle tournament player that's i think my favorite part of this hobby is just like the incredibly smart people that are so talented like just get shit done like just blow your mind in their free time like this guy i follow him on instagram and i just So my jaw is on the floor watching that project progress and the interesting rules he's doing and those special mechs he's building from scratch. It's incredible. Yeah. He did a fantastic job. I want to play that so badly. He played a few games on it. It was in its whitewood phase. It was before he had done the play field art. That was last year at the... It looks so professional now. Dude, it looks like a production-ready game. That thing's awesome. Honestly, it looks better than some production games from some companies. and what i played it played like a profession like it played like a you know a complete manufactured game it was great i was very impressed with that thing i'd love to see that go to production it looks so interesting i don't know sean personally but we follow each other on instagram i know he's been into wedge he listens to the podcast so yeah he'll probably bring your game down to portland sean you know he drags it to different shows he was just in tpf with it took it to expo last year and he put it on another great location in seattle called add a ball i think it's he keeps it on location at a ball so you can like i bet the add a ball yeah it's awesome and you can go play it at add a ball that makes me want to go up to seattle next weekend i'll meet you there yeah i forgot huh i was gonna say if i'm not mistaken i think he did the eight ball deluxe but flipped over against like the drop targets on the left side am i yeah the stand-ups are on the left yep they're like little like yeah so it's like similar to like bad girls yes yeah yeah that thing's really cool like no he took he took some shots from all the eight ball games like from champ from the original eight ball and for deluxe and uh and then added his own flair and lots of cool mechs and johnny crapt did the art who did the art for stern sure park and does a lot of pinball themed art and he's a rad artist who i also follow and yeah man it's it's a very cool project and it's very exciting i mean i wouldn't be surprised if in a few years he's working at a pinball company i mean this is kind of how it goes right like you do something like that on your own that's your resume like people are like oh shit like this guy gets it this guy could like actually manage the entire project start to finish yep did a really good job with it going back to kind of uh this being like the perfect theme i think that was one of the things i i just love seeing like cohesive theme picks for locations so i think it's great that you went and sought out pool games to put into a pool hall i just love that kind of stuff and i'm like sharkies is yeah yeah sharkies is good at that because alex is always talking about getting a nascar and he wants to put in a nascar bar like he wants to become an operator and like find a nascar bar to put his nascar in that would be the dream if i could get like eight nascars in a row but i don't hey i got i got a new account based on that Narragansett Brewery wants a Jaws pinball machine. Oh, shit. Because of the tie-in with Narragansett Beer. Yeah. So I got that call, and it's like, sure, I'll bring you a Jaws. They've got this beautiful taproom down in Providence. That's awesome, and that's the kind of thing that you're like, I can bring a Narragansett pinball to your Narragansett bar. Yeah, that's awesome. That's so cool. But, yeah, I do like seeing that kind of stuff, and that's what I was going to say is that Sharky's is a very pool game. It's not like Laser Q or something. It's not one where it's like, ah, it's kind of tangential. Alan, do you want to read our last review here before we wrap this up? No, we got a couple more reviews, dude. There's a second page. You think that's all the hate for this game? Oh, my God. Oh. We got a few to go through. I'll read this big one here. Bring it on. All right. So, I Suck at Pinball says, which is a good username.
    25:23
    This is me. I Suck at Pinball says, hit the pops more than anything else on the field. The audio was quiet. Might have been the machine. Probably was. I mean, DMD animations were almost non-existent. Just a few pool balls rolling around. The third flipper takes skill to hit anything. I don't see how that's a downside, but okay. A magic eight ball sucks to suck, dude. A magic eight ball toy is cute, but not my thing. Stampede multiball, question mark. It's a billiards-themed game. Trick shot multiball sounds better. The other multiball is just named multiball. so creativity is lacking in this game all around like what about having ceramic pinballs that look like mini cue balls that would be great is if you're just taking his money and now all you want is his pride maybe somebody already does this mod an acoustic as a plunger would have been neat so this guy's like giving them mod advice it has that it has it has a cue stick running along the shooter lane but it's not the plunger everything real talk this guy kind of sounds like a dipshit can we be honest yeah sorry continue buttons for ball saves are distracting until you learn it okay uh ball saves are great until you realize that you're just popping the ball up because your reflexes are too slow and you're a wreck on a railroad track you're a horse that finished last okay just save for the end let me finish this i'm getting fired up yeah fired up art seems like they tried to do a sexy translate but then thought women might play it so they unsexied up the women and added an alien oh my god i'm not saying it has to be sexy but it's really riding the line between sexy and politically correct look i'm not naked or anything play few colored bland machine color clashes with itself and practically anywhere you put it the game teaches you to rely on ball saves, I think it will lower your skills if you play it too long. The drop targets make it feel like an old, old, old EM game before they came up with widgets to make those more fun. You always drink like this so early in the morning? Rated versus other Sterns, I'd rate it about 5 out of 10. Against other pinball companies, I rate it 3 out of 10. I lie.
    27:40
    When I'm drunk, I lie. Go ahead, Mitch. Floor's yours. Alright, so the thing I had an outburst with when he was talking about the outlane posts, and it's sending the ball up in the air, there's actually a very nice piece of software and animation. If the ball pops up off the right post save and jumps into the shooter lane it a special airball bonus and it has a flying little 8 with wings on the animation Super cute Yeah it like a really nice touch And that right after he said that there no animations in the game it has a great tilt warning animation like when you bump it like it shows the whole it's an animation of the whole pool table bumping and the balls flying everywhere it's like i don't know and when and then he's also talking about stampede question mark stampede is like the hidden multi-ball would like tex one of the characters is a cowboy when you start multi-ball while battling techs, you get this stampede, which is worth double. So you knucklehead, you're getting... It's like he doesn't want... He's like, I'm playing a game, and I had to actually play the game, so I don't like playing this game. Is that accurate?
    28:51
    He's like, it takes skill to do these things. What the fuck do you want? Take a walk if you don't want to do anything with skill. I just like that he compares the drop targets to an, in quotes, old, old, old EM. Because it's before they came up with widgets? like just this the reviews all over the place he seems to know exactly what he's talking about that that was like that was the worst i was like make it feel like an old old old em game before they came up with just to make those more fun i was like fuck you dude like fuck that out of here i was like i love ems man full of widgets yeah oh my god widget the pitbull m rossman 5 says meh kind of a bore in my opinion it's odd that every single call out's a compliment Art isn't great. Maybe pick it up if you find it a really good price, but it'll probably just get repetitive. A real high-class con man. He can charm anybody and anything.
    29:46
    Is every single call-out a compliment, Mitch? It's more encouraging. There are... No, no, there's a little... The bad guys can be a little bit antagonistic, but for the most part, it's a friendly parlor. Okay, that's good. It's a friendly pool parlor. Yeah. We do lean towards preferring insoles. Genitly will sass you a little bit.
    30:08
    That's good. This guy's looking for, like, the S&M treatment, like the Black Knight treatment. Yeah, I was going to say, you just got to go play some Black Knight or Rick and Morty or something. One of the ones that really... Funhouse. Yeah. Funhouse. Rudy's more sarcastic, though. Read the next one, Alex. People really nitpick here, huh? They really... Yes. They really do. And they'll go after anything. If their first game on it was shitty, they usually won't like it, and then they just make it up. Jeep Mustang, though. Very cool username, also. Jeep Mustang says, Well, looking at the game, I thought I'd really like it. Purchased one for a good price before playing it, and it only lasted in my collection a couple months. Felt really cheap and kind of clunky. The whole machine confused me because the ideas all seemed good, but when adding it all together, it did not make a fun game. Play it again. Learn something. Huh? Hmm. I think that might be user error. because there is a cohesion to the game it's like you're playing through the characters you're playing eight ball nine balls yeah just because you're an idiot doesn't mean you can go on the internet and share your your opinions right are idiots allowed to go on the internet i got news for you mitch idiots are all over the internet oh shit don't tell me they're everywhere damn it are they on pin side don't tell me they're on they've been portrayed to pin side too I'm sorry to tell you, Mitch. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. This is heartbreaking. Yeah. Sorry, G-Bustang didn't like Sharky Shootout. Maybe he should figure out what he wants to do. I think he's mostly disappointed because he thought he'd really like it. But it all seemed fun, but didn't come together to make a fun game. Those are my favorite reviews, and people are like, I really wanted to like this one, but it's no good. And you're like, why is it? Well, you know, that preface doesn't add any more value to your review. No, I, yeah, they always do that. Last review of the night. Medieval Gopher says, I like this table. They've taken a previously boring and bland game and added some ramps and toys to make it worth playing. A good idea from Stern here. Minnesota fans got more character in one finger than you got in your old skinny body. This is actually a good review that I included because it upset me so much when I saw it. I had to include it. That is fantastic. So Eight Ball Deluxe is a real stinker. i yeah this guy's like all the luck sucks sharky shootout rules yeah i'm a bad girls because especially because this is clearly like i said at the opening it's it's an homage slash ripoff right like we'll say it's an homage clearly based on a very classic game the layout's very similar with modern updates you know eight ball deluxe they reran three times they sold 13,000 of them. The original 8-Ball game that 8-Ball Deluxe was the sequel for, that was the first game to sell over 20,000 units. George Christian designed both of those games. Alex and I are big George Christian fans. Like, we love those games. So hearing it like, they'd taken a previously boring and bland game and added some rams of toys to make it worth playing. I'm like, fuck this. Like, it's just, like, it's so crazy to me. It'd be like someone being like, hey, I really like the new timothy chalamet willie wonka movie it's just modern and they put some cool stuff in it make it worth watching so you don't have to watch that old gene wilder shit like and i'm just like that will just infuriate me so thanks for coming on the show again mitch uh we appreciate you coming on to defend again this is so much fun you made me want to go play some sharkies so now i gotta go out to next level play sharkies yep because i don't think i'm gonna find any others on location anytime soon. Yeah, it's just cool to find a rare game like that. Yeah. Oh, I have in my notes here. When was the last time there was only 200 made? I have in my notes here, it says they sold 800 of these. That's what I have. Oh, excuse me. It's still a benefit. It still seems pretty rare. Yeah. 100 is a very low production run. Curious how many are on location. Treasure it. That's what I'm saying. It's a treasure.
    34:12
    Spent on Sharky's Shootout. A game so nice, they made it twice. Golden Cue, Sharky's. Yeah, how many people, how many did they make of JJP's Pirates of the Caribbean? I don't know what the production number is. That's one of those games where they, collectors pay like what, 30, 40k for it? Yeah, like 20, 30 grand. But they made less of these, so maybe people should be valuing these Sharky's Shootouts at super high prices. I'm just gonna say it might be a better game.
    34:41
    Yeah, if you want to defend Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, I think I'd rather play Sharky's than a Pirates. I've played both and I'd much rather play Sharkies Oh I've only had limited time on Pirates I thought it was fun It's fun, it's just no Sharky shootout Amen brother I don't particularly like it but collectors seem to like it We didn't need to go to that tangent Yeah Throw a little Jersey Jack shade at the end of the episode for no reason That's for another segment Hills to avoid All right, Mitch. Well, we appreciate you joining us again defending Sharkies. Dude, thank you so much for having me on. This was a blast, guys. I love it. Yeah. Thanks for all you do, man. Well, you know, we love talking to other operators and people that are passionate about pinball. I'll end this episode like I end every other episode. If you ever get a chance, you're in a museum, you're in a big city, you're out visiting in Portland, Next Level has one of these, along with 300 other machines or whatever they have that you can play. If you see it on a show, make sure to put some time on Sharky's Shootout. Now that you listened to the episode, you know what to do. You gave a great overview of that game. I just played it yesterday, and it was like, oh, yeah, I'm jacked up to play it again because you just gassed it up. So I'm like, now I need to play it again. Yeah, I think there's an old video on YouTube of me giving a tutorial of all the fun features of it. We got to find that. The show notes. Oh, yeah. We got to find that and add that to the show notes. We'll have to dig it up. Nice. All right. For everyone else, go out and play some pinball, even if it's not Sharky Shootout. Maybe play that old piece of shit, 8-Ball Deluxe, if you can't find a Sharky Shootout.
    36:28
    Kick that thing around for a little while. But until next time, good luck. Don't suck. Street Sharks They bite, they fight The Street Sharks They're gonna kill some serious men To win the Street Sharks Trust them
    37:09
    They say the day the street shots They've got the bad guys on the run They want the street shots Street shots Drive them