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The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 12

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 36m·analyzed·Jun 24, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Injury discussion leads to debate on classic pinball remakes vs originals and CGC quality concerns.

Summary

Scott Rundell and Neil McRae discuss pinball-related injuries, with Neil describing a severe arm injury (AC joint dislocation and tendinitis) sustained while playing Judge Dredd. The conversation pivots to classic game remakes by CGC, comparing original vs. remake versions of games like Monster Bash, Medieval Madness, and Attack from Mars, with detailed technical discussion of CGC's emulation-based architecture. Neil shares concerns about declining build quality in recent CGC Pulp Fiction shipments, citing playfield defects and component failures despite CGC's historically strong reputation.

Key Claims

  • Neil McRae sustained an AC joint dislocation and tendinitis while playing Judge Dredd, requiring him to stand sleeping for recovery

    high confidence · Neil describing his personal injury experience in detail during the podcast

  • CGC remake games use PinMame emulation running original ROM code through a Beagle board and USB I.O. interface

    high confidence · Scott and Neil discussing technical architecture of CGC remakes (Attack from Mars)

  • Attack from Mars remake competition mode has a code bug where mystery always awards 50 million instead of variable rewards

    high confidence · Scott explaining the AFM competition mode issue, mentioning conversation with Lyman about requesting a code update from CGC

  • Medieval Madness flipper position affects playfield difficulty—flippers should be drooped down, not raised up like some machines have

    high confidence · Scott and Neil discussing flipper height and its impact on orbit shot difficulty, with reference to Brian Eddy consultation

  • CGC Pulp Fiction SEs have quality issues including chipped playfield edges around the briefcase multiball hole

    high confidence · Neil describing discovery of chipped clear while cleaning Pulp Fiction before event; multiple forum reports of similar defects

  • Ghostbusters Premium cost 7,250 GBP when Scott purchased it; later Stern games have increased in price by approximately 4,000 GBP

    high confidence · Scott discussing historical Stern pricing and recent price increases

  • Monster Bash original games typically sold for 10,000+ GBP; Neil acquired a German machine for 6,500 euros in 2016

    high confidence · Neil describing Monster Bash acquisition and market pricing context

  • Medieval Madness remake cost 6,500 GBP new; Neil previously sought originals for similar or higher prices

    medium confidence · Neil comparing remake pricing to original market values

Notable Quotes

  • “All for the love of the silver ball. Yeah, all – and do you know what the funny part is? It wasn't even a bloody good game.”

    Neil McRae @ early in injury discussion — Illustrates the irony of sustaining serious injury from a machine many consider mediocre quality

  • “My hand was going blue and i couldn't feel my fingers and i was just screaming... I literally fell asleep standing up.”

    Neil McRae @ injury account — Emphasizes severity of nerve compression injury and desperation of pain management

  • “I don't have a lot of time to play so when I want to play I don't want to be fixing... you want it to be working, absolutely”

    Neil McRae @ remake discussion — Core motivation for preferring remakes over originals—reliability and playability without constant maintenance

  • “I would not change it for any T in China.”

    Neil McRae @ Monster Bash remake section — Strong endorsement of Monster Bash remake quality despite owning original

  • “They run a hacked version of PinMame... They use a Beagle board. It's effectively like a Raspberry Pi. Right. But an industrialized Raspberry Pi.”

    Scott Rundell @ technical discussion — Explains CGC's technical architecture to audience unfamiliar with the implementation

  • “If some person buys this, I pity the fool. He wants 18... He says the fact that some shops got it listed for 25 means it's a bargain.”

    Scott Rundell @ Medieval Madness secondary market discussion — Commentary on inflated pricing of original Medieval Madness on secondary market

  • “I love him because like me he's a perfectionist and I like to try and aim for perfection I hate him because he's a perfectionist it means that you have to wait for games right”

    Neil McRae @ Doug Dubo/CGC section — Captures the trade-off in CGC's philosophy—quality over speed—and its impact on product delivery

  • “When the playfield goes, that's it. I'm fucking out, right? I am out.”

Entities

Scott RundellpersonNeil McRaepersonJudge DreddgameMonster BashgameMedieval MadnessgameAttack from Marsgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: CGC Pulp Fiction SE shipments showing multiple build quality failures: chipped playfield edges around briefcase hole, failed opto boards, mylar defects, silvering flaking

    high · Neil's direct observation and multiple forum reports on Pinside; contrasts with historically excellent CGC reputation

  • ?

    code_update: Attack from Mars remake competition mode bug not addressed: mystery mode always awards 50M instead of variable rewards. Code update requested but pending.

    high · Scott discussing AFM remake issue; conversation with Lyman about code update request to CGC

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: CGC Pulp Fiction forum sentiment has shifted negative compared to typical positive CGC reception, indicating erosion of brand trust among owners

    high · Neil directly observing Pinside forum being 'not the happy place that most CGC forums are'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Shift in collector preference from original machines to remakes driven by reliability and maintenance burden, despite originality arguments

    medium · Neil's experience with Monster Bash original requiring constant switch/motor replacement vs bulletproof remake; decision to buy remake despite owning original

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Medieval Madness flipper height affects gameplay difficulty; original design specifies drooped flippers (lower position) to facilitate orbit shots, but some machines have raised flippers

    high · Scott and Neil discussion of flipper positioning impact; consultation with Brian Eddy confirming drooped design intent

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.290

0:00
Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another phenomenal, unbelievable, world-changing, inspirational episode of the Great British Pinball Podcast. We're on episode, we don't freaking remember.
0:34
As always, I am joined by... Scott Rundle. That was a lot of adjectives there, Neil. It was. And I have to say, my brain was struggling with them.
0:46
I kind of said, let's hit the start button. Normally, I kind of have something to say in my head, and I didn't, which is very unusual for me before anyone else says it.
0:55
Scott, tell me about the seatbelt that you're wearing. My nice new fashion accessory, you mean. Yeah.
1:03
I think, long story short, and anyone probably can be a test of this if they've ever picked up a pinball machine themselves, if your arm starts to hurt, it's probably a good idea to put it down. Yes, it is. Yeah, I've done a stupid thing, really. I've basically...
1:21
Well, I've done two things. I've effectively popped my AC, I think they call it, which is a bone that's along the top side of your shoulder. And that's dislocated out of its socket. And that's pinching down as a result on my nerve endings in my shoulder. And then I have tendinitis, which is calcification of the muscle, which I didn't even know was a thing. But, yeah, apparently I have basically the equivalent of a bone, a loose fragment in the – between my rotator cuff and I forget the area they talked about, but I've got the x-ray. Basically, long and sure of it is I've messed my arm up, and I've been in the most agony I've ever been in in my entire life this weekend. All for the love of the silver ball. Yeah, all – and do you know what the funny part is? It wasn't even a bloody good game. a lot of people would be like what game was it Guns N' Roses was it Star Trek that's a really heavy one no I chose Judge Dredd I'm a sucker for white bodies and it'll be Dreddage forever it's definitely going to have a story behind it isn't it really you have to write on the bottom of it on the bottom of the cabinet this caused me an arm injury this caused me an arm and a leg hopefully not a leg as well i think the worst feeling i had from it was when the nerve endings were being trapped my hand was going blue and i couldn't feel my fingers and i was just screaming i think i at one point i felt it got too bad i had to stand up and sleep i couldn't rest i couldn't find a position in my in my body you know if anyone's ever done their arm in they'll know what I'm talking about but basically when you pull muscles in your arm because everything's connected especially all the nerve endings pulling across from my chest from my back, my shoulder, to my neck to all the way to my fingers and what I was finding is any little movement was basically like this is agony, this is ultra agony this is you're going to kill yourself kind of agony and I just couldn't find a position other than resting my arm straight down like it was just loose. It was the only thing I could find that was comfortable so it meant I had to stand up and I literally fell asleep standing up. It was the only thing I was so tired at one point. I'd gone from two days with no sleep. So I just decided it was better just to stand up, rest my head against the wall. My wife stood next to me for about 40 minutes so I could have some sleep. That was the amount of agony I was in. I mean, I, some of you all know this. I think I've mentioned this before, but the first night of lockdown, I bought a, I bought a basketball kind of hoop thing in the garden for my grandkids. And as I was demolishing the cardboard box that came in, the cardboard box decided it wanted to be a ski. And I literally skated down my entire driveway.

CGC build quality on all four remakes (Monster Bash, Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Cactus Canyon) has been excellent with no reliability issues

high confidence · Scott praising consistency of CGC remake build quality and play reliability

  • Pulp Fiction CGC Pinside forum is not the happy place it typically is, with multiple quality complaints from owners

    high confidence · Neil observing negative sentiment on CGC Pulp Fiction forum discussions compared to usual positive CGC reception

    • Neil McRae @ Pulp Fiction quality issues discussion — Articulates the breaking point for game reliability—playfield defects are unacceptable despite other fixes being possible

  • “Pulp Fiction absolutely worth the wait anyone who's got one in order I honestly think you'll love this game”

    Neil McRae @ Pulp Fiction summary — Despite quality concerns, still recommends the game for those on preorder

  • “I guarantee you, anyone who's got an original still barely has any original parts left in it anyway. Like, the originality is gone.”

    Scott Rundell @ original vs remake discussion — Undermines 'authenticity' arguments for originals—age and maintenance has replaced most components anyway

    • CGC (Chicago Gaming Company)
    company
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Cactus Canyongame
    Ghostbustersgame
    Star Trekgame
    No Feargame
    Monster Bash originalgame
    Black Knightgame
    Doug Duboperson
    Mark Ritchieperson
    Josh Sharpperson
    James from Majestic Pinballperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Chief Cafevenue
    Pinsideorganization
  • $

    market_signal: Original Medieval Madness commanding inflated prices (seller asking 18,000 GBP with comparisons to 25,000 GBP retail); disproportionate to game quality and condition

    high · Scott discussing Medieval Madness secondary market listing; community reaction to FOMO-driven pricing

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: CGC experiencing measurable decline in manufacturing quality on Pulp Fiction line compared to previous remakes; playfield defects suggest process or material issue

    high · Multiple separate playfield damage reports; contrast with Neil's Cactus Canyon and Ghostbusters replacement experience showing fast resolution

  • ?

    technology_signal: CGC remakes use PinMame emulation via Beagle board (industrialized Raspberry Pi) with USB I.O. interface running original game ROM code

    high · Scott technical explanation of CGC architecture and implementation details

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball community awareness of injury risks from heavy machine handling and aggressive play; personal anecdotes (Jack Danger, Kevlar, Neil, Scott) creating informal injury documentation

    high · Extended discussion of pinjuries; references to Jack Danger hand injury and Kevlar arm injury; safety warnings in context of 150kg machines

  • ?

    operational_signal: Moving pinball machines presents serious injury risk; improper handling technique, sudden weight shifts, and narrow doorways are common hazard vectors

    high · Scott's shoulder injury from improper lifting technique during machine delivery; multiple anecdotes about handling hazards and wrong assistance

  • ?

    business_signal: CGC and Stern demonstrating good customer service on playfield replacements despite initial defects; fast turnaround (under 13 days US-UK for Cactus Canyon)

    high · Neil's experience with CGC Cactus Canyon display replacement and Stern Ghostbusters playfield replacement; Spooky TNA playfield replacement

    • 4:22
    And when I stopped, I fell back on my backside, but my elbow took most of it. And I ended up, like, at the time I thought, it's okay it's not bad but then I ended up in hospital and I'd fractured my elbow and it was not pleasant for a few days in fact for a few weeks it still isn't actually it hasn't healed properly um I can't straighten my arm um luckily it's my left arm um because um so that's the weird thing when I was talking to like the doctors and the nurses they're like are you left-handed or right-handed I said I'm left-handed they said I'll be fine then so the problem is like most left-handed people, I actually don't use my left hand other than writing. Mouse, cuddling, throwing, even lifting it's my dominant arm. I've always used my right arm, just how it's been. So not having my right arm has been the worst feeling ever. I'd rather have lost the left, but there we go. And also, I couldn't play pinball for quite a while. You know, it was... So I imagine you're probably if you're playing, you're probably playing one-handed with the yeah the funny story about that because i mean so bored i because you know like you're a great fan of fortnite so you'll get this right i play apex legends a lot so my mates were like going oh yeah we're gonna hit we're gonna go to masters this season and i was like it was at diamonds who were pretty much close to it and i was like yeah i'll help you get my i'll help you masters i've done it time before and then when i broke news to them i broke my arm they were like i dare you and not happy yeah they were like oh we're gonna get masters now you've ruined it all and i was just like i can't do anything i tried even using a joypad and i just even pulling my thumb around her it's really weird it is brutal and yeah and um actually there's a thing on youtube um what's it what's it called it's it's it's like gamputation gamputated or this guy who's a gamer and he had his arm amputated and he's been trying to figure out how to play video games one-handed it's this kid it's actually uh quite i have seen a lot of people that do manage to pull it off they can build like yeah he's got actually it's called it's called champutee that's what it's called and i don't know how i came across this but um he's got like three videos on it and and to give i mean his first video he hit 2.7 million viewers um and then his last he's done a couple more. The first one was quite I actually found it really shocking because as a gamer as a pinball player you kind of you take your hands and arms for granted, right? It's just a real... And seeing this guy, my heart's out to him because clearly he's been through a lot. I think he must be 16, 17 maybe.
    7:22
    And I tell you, he's handling it better than I would handle it, that's for sure. But I remember, actually, Pinberg, Jack Danger, he got his hand stuck in a folding chair. God. And he did his hand in badly. And, of course, for him, like, you know, he's like, I play pinball to earn money, you know. Yeah. It freaked him out, actually. I remember talking to him the next day. Because I saw him. I was like, where do you go? He was like, oh, I have to stay in a hotel. did my hand in and I was worried about it. But I think he was alright in the end, thankfully. But yeah, I mean, Luke, my pingery story, I haven't had a horrible kind of pingery in the way that you've done. I know a great fan of the show, Kevlar, he did his arming, lifting games around.
    8:17
    I once went to get a Star Trek Next Gen. Yeah, it's heavy. it's heavy but also if you're wheeling I had a cheap sack truck and I'm trying to wheel it across this grass and there's this like 60 year old guy trying to help me who's actually not helping at all is he just one of those people that's like hovering his hands around it and can't help you he's just in the way basically and I ended up pushing it across the grass and I got it into the car and I felt a twinge and then when I saw what happened to Kevlar, I thought, you know what? Martin's here for a reason.
    8:58
    Yeah, you know what? I spoke to Martin today because I was hoping he was supposed to collect a game of mine, Roadshow. But apparently the person who was buying the game off me got their wires crossed. Martin said he might be able to come today, but he didn't. So I ended up calling him up. And I talked to him about how he does it, but he just... As you say, he's been doing it a lot, and he knows how to lift, and he knows... how to use the right leverage to make sure you're not overexerting yourself. I mean, me, I did the opposite. I was like inside this house that was probably an old 70s build. It had a French window that was way too narrow, and it's a wide-body game.
    9:38
    The guy was funny. He was very helpful, but I didn't want to damage the guy's house. It was actually his dad's house. So he was like going like, look, if you damage the house, I don't care. It's not my house. And I was like, well, you might say that. I might think that, but your dad might not think that. So I was like, I don't really want to damage it. So he puts the weight down suddenly, and I didn't realize he was going to do it. So suddenly I'm trying to lift this pin over the threshold because it's a raised step to get the machine over the patio door. And he just suddenly drops it. And then all the weight shifted to me. And that's when my right arm just went, I'm going to show you a new trick. and literally my arm just felt, you know, you see that shivering? Like I could feel the whole thing, just the whole arm just go smattering. I was like, this is going to hurt later. And it did.
    10:30
    Well, Luke, you know, Luke, people be careful. Yeah, definitely. Because these machines, you know, they're 150 kilos. I think we forget, especially when, you know, when we're moving them. And this is one of the things, it's the thing I hate about pinball the most moving games and you know we do the uki open we move 60 games um and it's fucking horrible um you know you just you just it is so dangerous yeah um and i you know i get a lot that was the part that was raised against me it was imagine he's at a higher level and i'm at the lower end so it was tilting towards me so you know it's like any weight that's shifted suddenly towards you and you're holding it it's yeah i mean you if you dropped to me you know you could have taken your leg out or something. It's just not. If I'd have dropped out, I'd have hurt myself more, I think. I hadn't a real choice. So, yeah, look, folks, be careful out there. It's not worth it.
    11:28
    Especially for a judge instead. I was going to say, stop buying bloody heavy, cheap games. It's not worth it, is probably the answer, I would say. Oh, Jesus, man. If you'd said, it's like a medieval madness remake. Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, it's a really rare, stern, classic you know but the judge dread um you know the only thing that could have been worse is if you'd said it was roadshow at least with my house and anybody who's ever been to my house will know it's a quite a level experience to get if you've got a flatbed trolley even a satry it's very yeah yeah your house is easy yeah somehow because you've been to i've been to a few where some of them have got like you've you mentioned like grass fronts it's i think the worst ones are the ones with the pebble oh yeah the thing just digs in actually the other game i went and got because my wife liked it no fear um this guy said it was a thousand quid on ebay and i did i buy it now i didn't even look at it i just bought it now we went up to get it this is when i was still doing the runs um we went up to get it and i said the thing i said look is it on the ground floor because if it's not on the floor, I don't want it. I'm not lifting pins downstairs. Life's too short, right?
    12:45
    So I get there. Yeah, it's underground floor, but unfortunately the way he got it in, it doesn't fit the way out because he had a new kitchen put in. So we had to lift the damn thing above the kitchen worktops. It's a brand new kitchen.
    13:02
    actually, no fear. It's probably not as bad as Judge Dredd from a weight point you had to have no fear to lift it over his table and that again i was like what i was i remember carrying it thinking neil what the fuck are you doing um well my wife likes it um and actually you know what it threw me for ages i don't know why i thought in my head that was a stern release but it's 95 isn't it it's an old game it's a williams it's uh it's actually apart Apart from it being a pretty simple game, it's actually a lot of fun. I like it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just plays... If you put good players on it, it just plays for 100 years. It reminds me of Black Knight because it's got a talking head. It's very similar to Black Knight. Even the kind of shots... It's a typical Richie fan layout, and it fluked well. But I think in an era of kind of early branded games, I don't think you did a terrible job on it when you look back. I honestly thought it was like a naughty Stern game because it just looked more modern than most but yeah you stick a colour DMD in it and actually the colour DMD translation for it is pretty good so maybe that's in the lock up along with a bunch of other glorious games which brings me on to the next topic that we're going to talk about which is it real or is it a fake and And we'll wheel in a bit of community discussion. But there's basically a bozo on Facebook trying to flog medieval madness. A real one.
    14:43
    A real one. And he wants ridiculous cash for it. I mean, literally, if some person buys this, I pity the fool. Because what is it? He wants 16 grand or something. No, it's 18. And he says the fact that some shops got it listed for 25 means it's a bargain. I love these sort of moments of wind up opportunity so I posted I would sell my remake probably not Neil I posted I would sell my remake for a thousand pounds cheaper and he said that's not even real it's a copy it's like buying a fake Rolex or some bullshit like that and I'm like yeah okay mate and it reminded me of my Monster Bash moment we went to Chief Cafe big shout out to those guys down in West London great coffee, great pinball and some cool Japanese games give them a visit but the there a monster bash in there and my wife loved this game and it was very rare where my wife would get excited about pinball frankly but this game I tracked one down in Germany for 6,500 euros. And it looked in pretty good condition. There's a couple of little issues with it, but I thought, at that time, Monster Bashes were going for 10 grand. Were they? Yeah, this would be, what, 90, not 90, what are you on about? This would be 2016.
    16:18
    It was like my third game or something. Anyway, I bought this. It was kind of bizarre because I just went on the website, bought it. I didn't really do any due diligence on is this a real website or not it's not going to be a giant scam no exactly and then it went quiet and I thought oh you fucking tit you've been scammed anyway like a day later I get a phone call oh it's at the depot you know we're going to deliver it on Monday I was like are you open now he's like yeah I'm coming to get it so I got a van went down picked it up brought it back and the game it was lovely I had an issue with Dracula Motor and actually the pain of that is they sell replacements but they're not quite the same, they don't run at the same speeds because of voltage or something I fiddled with it for ages and actually I ended up buying a crap, a kind of burned out NBA fast break because it's got the same mech in it and I took the motor out of it, put it in your monster bash which fixed it but the thing about it was every time I'm playing it and then something, I go over a switch and it doesn't work it doesn't register, right and basically, the age of these games, the switches have you know, they've all gone limp and I must have swapped, I think by the time I got rid of it, I must have swapped just about every switch in it, and it still wasn't triggers broom, basically, right it still wasn't 100% and then the remake came out and I said, I'm having one, and everyone's like why, you've got an original, and I was like, let me tell you and this I don't have a lot of time to play so when I want to play I don't want to be fixing you want it to be working, absolutely I got Monster Bash remake CGC did an epic job with the GI and the widescreen and the toppers, hilarious and you know it's got this nice kind of thing on the bar, they did a great job and it's bulletproof, it just works I've not had a single issue with it. Well, as in a home use only area, and I imagine it does get some operator use for kind of like when you do tournaments, but I just suspect it will last forever now. It's maybe got 1,500 plays on it, but compared to the original, I would not change it for any T in China. And it's the same with, I've got an Attack for Mars remake, I've got Medieval Madness remake. I mean, I've heard some people say, like, out of all the remakes, the least desirable of the remakes is the Attack from Mars. I'm not sure why. That's just all I've heard is that apparently they didn't nail the remake as good as the original. There's something there that isn't the same. But the other two, Monster Bash and, well it's free now isn't it? Because you've got Cactus Canyon as well. Yeah, there's four.
    19:11
    Yeah, there's four. But look, Attack from Mars, they got two things wrong with it. The first was there was a bit of an issue with the colours on the play field.
    19:23
    Which doesn't... I don't think it has it. That's just an aesthetic, but is there a mechanical issue there? No, the other issue is... So the way that CGC games work is they run a hacked version of PinMame and they kind of emulate the game. They emulate the game with a normal ROM on PinMame and they've built this interface from PinMame to a physical thing where... No, I didn't know either. Which is a USB device. So they use a Beagle board. It's effectively like a Raspberry Pi. Right. But an industrialized Raspberry Pi. They then plug into this USB thing, which is this I.O. board, and they emulate the game. So you're running the original code. The problem is they picked the very first version of code that came out on AFM.
    20:12
    And at least – so for most people, it will be fine. For us competition players, when you turn competition mode on, It only ever gets, if you hit mystery, you get 50 million all the time. There's no other, you know, start mode or do this. It's just all 50 million, 50 million, 50 million. And actually, I kind of, I was talking to Lyman about it when he moved to CGC, and I said, mate, try and get them to do a code update. And he replied, he said, yeah, it's, you know, a few other folks have mentioned this on the list, but, you know, unfortunately, that would be me. But, you know, so anyway, but I don't think it's, I think at least a lot of people say, oh, it plays wildly different. I think it plays the same, same with Moments of Ice, same with Medieval Madness. But what people don't forget is when you're playing that original Medieval Madness that's 20 years old, it doesn't play like a new Medieval Madness. It plays like a 20-year-old Medieval Madness. well you know 90% of my collection is all Bally and Williams of that era and they're like classic cars you can play them and they'll be absolutely fine and then out of the blue something will die and it'll just be like for God's sake I just want to play the goddamn game and you look Medieval Madness I think was like the fifth pin I bought or the fourth I always wanted to attack for Mars and I want I'm trying to find a nice one I don't have to spend my entire life fixing yeah and then well good examples the eddy boards right yeah i was forever like oh god the bloody eddy boards gone again the sensors misaligned and it's either triggering way too much or not at all and you'd have to lift the playfield and fiddle with it for ages and i switched those all out to auto eddy boards which again is it's not cheap you're about 100 pound a board you know i mean this is the thing i don't like going back to the whole original and fake thing It's like, I guarantee you, anyone who's got an original still barely has any original parts left in it anyway. Like, the originality is gone. It's probably had the MPU blown out because some batteries in it. The cabinet or the power supply. Yeah.
    22:30
    The original parts that's left over, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Matt's got a medieval madness he had in the club for a while. and I always find that he had the flippers raised which basically he was like no that's the problem I mailed Brian Eddy he said Brian are the flippers supposed to be up or down and he was like they're supposed to be down and I was like yes you mean like so that they're further up so everyone thinks that they're supposed to be in line with the in lanes right but they're not they're supposed to be drooped and actually the reason that they're drooped is it makes hitting the orbit shots a lot easier.
    23:10
    So in Matt's game, because they were higher, I just found it really hard to play it compared to mine. And actually, conversely, he finds mine hard to play compared to his, which makes sense in a way. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, look, people were paying like eight, nine grand for a Medieval Madness that was, you know, typically they weren't in great shape, especially the wizard hole, the bit off the ramp. You know, they were ropey as hell, the catapult. And they were paying loads of dosh for them. And I was like, I want this game. I really like this game. but I'm not having that and then I heard about the remakes and I was like wow this is interesting and I just got really lucky there was a guy so they literally been delivered about four months out before I got into pinball and there was one guy on the forum who you know he had it he played it a few times like look I've got this and this was a game I think it cost six and a half grand new wow that's cheap yeah well but at the time six and a half grand for a pin for me was like the most I'd spend was like two or three grand What was the going rate for a Stern back then? So Ghostbusters Was 6200 I think Prices have jumped haven't they? It's freaking mental So I bought a Ghostbusters Premium After Medieval I can't remember if it was after or before I paid I think it was 72.50 For the Premium Ghostbusters Wow Considering it's gone up 4 grand it's a bit of a scandal But actually Silver Paolo's got my Ghostbusters he's the now owner of it do you know what, I love the artwork I love the theme integration, I just feel like, the game's a turd it's shocking, it's not a turd in my book I think I could tolerate it but I'd have to I don't know, I'd have to cheat with it because I'd have to make the slippers longer or something to compensate for that it is one of the few games I have sold yeah I remember you saying that, you know that gives you, I've sold the only other two games I've sold actually there's even two, it's one game which is Spider-Man and I sold that I'm surprised by that, most people like that game no I love it but I've got Star Trek ah yeah, well yeah you choose one or the other, yeah I'm with you on that it's like in a world of limited space, yeah, they're just too close together, I love it and actually I had a really nice home use only one that was mint when I got it beautiful. So, you know, CGC, the build quality and part of the story on all four of those games has been out of this world. I've got all the remakes and they're like, they just play so nicely. I never have to dick with them. One, they've got this big board. What if the big board goes bang? I'm like, you know, the odds are that... It is a design flaw. I'll give them that, but from what I understand, they have multiple LEDs covering the same area so it can suffer an LED failure and still carry on working? I think the danger is if CGC disappears, but irrespective of what board it is, if they disappear, it suddenly becomes harder to get. But I look at the industry and the industry's done a great job of recovering from the parts. Making reproduction parts. What was one on Optanium is now Optanium. and you know even the Monster Bash scoop they were hard to come by but because of the remake you can get them now so I really think CGC did a brilliant job which leads me to a slightly sadder CGC story I'm afraid to say so many of you will have heard from the last episode that I imported the glorious game that is Pulp Fiction and it really is an absolutely freaking amazing game.
    27:29
    It's tough, it's hard, but it is a real risk-reward fun. I just want to play it over and over and over again. And I've been playing it a lot. So this game, I bought it. I didn't buy it brand new. It was nearly new, which is how I was able to get it. It kind of... I shipped over from the US, blah blah blah. You can see all my unboxing videos on my YouTube channel if you're really bored or can't sleep because you've busted your arm, they will put you to sleep. But I say the build quality on the Pulp Fiction SEs that are getting shipped is not great. It is definitely a step back. I'm very disappointed about it because I'm a big fan of CGC. People say, oh, you're playing a CGC game? You'll have no problems. I bet before I got this game and someone said, ah Neil, bet your house on how reliable it was, I would have bet my house because they've been superb. The track record. You do get issues. I know you had an issue with your cactus. Yeah, I had an issue with the cactus, right? The display was weird. It was like, whenever you flip the flippers, the display would go blank. You know when you see on your mono, it would say HDMI, like it's searching for a signal. Mine was doing that. To be fair to them, they replaced the part so fast. It was replaced in like under 13 days I want to say and that's from the US you have to bear in mind that's very quick and again I did have one issue with my AFM they sent a new part out job done right so I'm playing Pulp Fiction when I first got it and I think this is on my YouTube channel and actually Josh Sharp pops on and he's like chatting away and he's like what's going on with your drop target and I'm like well and I hadn't noticed it but the drop target that, well I didn't notice the impact, the drop target where you hit to start a mode wasn't working right. And he's basically said, he pings on chat, he says, look I spoke to Mark Ritchie and he says the drop target's probably too close to the edge of the playfield, just move it back. So I did that and it made it, it improved it, it definitely improved it, but it wasn't 100%. And actually James from Majestic Pinball said, he came around and said I'm going to put a stiffer spring on it that fixed it 100%, no problem, right?
    29:57
    But also and again, fair play to CGC Josh emailed me and said look, Doug Dubo will call you and take you through what you need to do to fix this Doug Dubo owns the freaking company I've met him a couple of times I love him and I hate him, I love him because like me he's a perfectionist and I like to try and aim for perfection I hate him because he's a perfectionist it means that you have to wait for games right this is the downside of it but you know the so I think that's always been the argument though with CGC isn't it it's done when it's done and it'll be worth the wait yeah and this is the thing so Pulp Fiction absolutely worth the wait anyone who's got one in order I honestly think you'll love this game there'll be one or two that might think it's too hard and there's ways you can make it easier so don't panic about that but I'm kind of cleaning it because I was taking it to an event actually a shout out to Telecom TV they have an annual event, Telecom's event and I go to it and we do a pinball charity event and actually Matt Vince helps get the games there London Pinball, if you want to hire a pinball talk to Matt, he'll help you out if you go to so we get the games down there so I thought we'll take Pulp Fiction down because it will go down well with the sort of people that are there and as I'm cleaning it I notice that where it fires the ball up for the briefcase multi-ball, all the clear is kind of chipped around the edge of the hole I'm like oh my god and i go on the forum and there's there's a load of people moaning about this there's one other guy who's got an ugly bit at the top of his game where the ball launches and it's not for some reason his ball isn't landed on the mylar where you know where the launch area is they put mylar down it's just missing it and it's mangled up the bit behind there's a couple of other horror shots. There's a guy who's got a leg where the silver's flaked off, and there's a bunch of people complaining because the opto boards have been failing. Actually, I haven't had that problem. Actually, I haven't had any mechanical issues. I think the biggest issue for me would be the playfield. Yeah, that is... Look, I can take, you know, a board going bang or a but when the playfield goes, that's it. I'm fucking out, right? I am out. And I've had this shit with Stern, I've had it with JGP, I've had it with Spooky, right? And Spooky and Stern, they saw me right. So I got a new Ghostbusters, we mentioned Ghostbusters, I got a new Ghostbusters playfield populated. They sent in a big box. My Avengers was warped. They sent me a big new box.
    32:55
    Fairplay and Spooky, they sent me a new playfield. I had to pay for a couple of things because they had no way of getting my playfield back. So I said, that's fine, I'm cool with that. They sent me a new playfield for TNA. Actually, I haven't put it in the game yet because I kind of thought I'd hang on to it. And TNA is like a real... TNA probably gets a battering, I imagine, as well. Yeah, I mean, it's actually Diane's because of the club being closed. But yeah, it gets played heavily and eventually I'll swap the populated playfield in. but I'm looking at the CGC forum on Pinside and it is not the happy place that most CGC forums are so you know Luke here's the thing I've kind of encouraged everyone to raise tickets and raise issues with CGC I raised the playfield issue what they're trying to do is see if they can come up with a cliffy that sits in it to avoid the damage that makes sense and I think they'll follow through they're typically good at following through what i really hope though is so this is an se i've still got like the white have you ever seen the white water cliffy like the one that protects the area where it drops down yeah it probably needs something like that right large cover i'm sure they will figure something out but i want them to figure it out before the le's start getting made um because even though i was going to ask you that so the le's haven't started production yet Well, yeah, they're still shipping SEs, but the pace of SE shipments has definitely gone up because a few people have got their games. Well, they were told a date and it's come forward. And I mean, you know, they're pissed off because, well, shit, I've got the money, but then, oh, great, I get my game, right? So, yeah, it's kind of a two-edged sword. Yeah.
    34:41
    I think we've all been there. It's a two-edged sword. But what comes out of it is, like, you know, and actually I kind of, again, I just kind of debate with Josh, like, I think the LE should be first. We've paid the most and we should get them first. And he's like, no, no, no, Neil, you don't want it first because you want to be the one to take stuff out. Yeah, absolutely. And he's spot on. It's hard to argue with him.
    35:06
    So, look, CGC, they've taken a step down the quality ladder, no question about it. are they still the best 100 right they're still definitely the best but hey cgc step up right um because back to where you maintained before yeah it's weird because cactus canyon i'm thinking on that the ball flies bloody everywhere you know you hit the bart's head and what stuff mine's is spot on perfect i've got an le i love it i love the game at the top it's freaking cool but I have to say it is a noticeable step down Do you think they've changed the fabrication process during the clear coat and stuff like that for the playfield? Hold on one second, I've got a guest, come on in There he is We're doing a podcast Let me grab a chair and you can join us for a minute So everyone waiting in the background Matt Vince has just showed up Hello Matt You all right, mate? How you doing? Not too bad. Can I have a puke?
    36:12
    Well, I did want to grab a puke. Go in. The kitchen door should be open, mate. Did you ring the doorbell? No, I tried to ring your phone. So Matt's going to be joining, basically, to do some... Actually, I'll be back in a sec. Yes, sure. So while we wait, he may do some editing afterwards. If he doesn't, then you get to hear my solo voice for a little bit. But Matt Vince is joining today because it's quite a special day, actually, for the venue for Pinball Republic. They will be doing signatures. And as part of the requirement, they need a co-signature from directors. So that means that they need basically, for instance, in this case, Matt and Neil to sign that document. So I think Neil decided to do it live today on the podcast. Unfortunately, it hasn't really transpired that way because Matt's arrived a little bit during mid-recording rather than at the beginning. So apologies for that. But while he's gone off and he's just sorting out Matt to get him acclimatized to the podcast, I will keep talking here and run us through one of the other subjects we wanted to cover off. So we've obviously just spoke about CGC here and the dropping quality that they've had recently. I think on the whole of it, right, as he's mentioned before, CGC have done a very good job. The quality is there. People do still like the games. I think one thing I wanted to just top back on that we didn't talk about and may as well do now is I did notice recently there was a Cactus Canyon original that showed up on eBay. It actually fetched very similar money to what I would imagine a used remake would have hit. And I think the part that interested me the most about that, and anybody who knows about Cactus Canyon, is that an original game doesn't have finished code. Cactus Canyon, for CGC, they did go through the effort of creating effectively missing elements. Even the match score wasn't present in the original game, which is why a lot of games had what they called the Cactus Continued added on, which was a mod that you had to have a PC added into the machine, so very much going against, I suppose, originality in that respect.
    38:23
    But it was needed in my book because the game was unfinished. Now, you know, each to their own. Anybody who likes the original, that's fine. I understand why you like original. But to understand why you'd pay as much for an original as a remake when it's not equal, I think in situations where you've got medieval madness and the game is effectively the same game, and in some cases, argument-wise, as I addressed earlier, Attack from Mars, where the code is obviously unfinished. It's okay, I'm still talking. I'm covering for you. My wife's contract's somewhere. They're getting the contract. So yeah, with Attack from Mars, the code is obviously, as we know, running on an earlier edition of the code, and as for tournament play, that's affected. So I get the argument that an original in that case is a better case to go for over a remake. But on the whole, I'm very much in the camp to go over a remake, especially for Cactus Canyon. You get the topper. at least you should get the one that contains the topper in my book because it's integrated into the game code so you get the actual video mode being used in the topper to me it's just that much better and it isn't that much more so anybody out there looking for a cactus canyon and you're not that fussed between one or the other absolutely go for the remake cgc did a very good job. I only sold mine because if I'm honest with you, the game in my book is just too shallow.
    39:51
    Obviously there will be the lineman sheets code and when that does finally surface, I'm sure the game will be better. I just think for me, I wasn't in a position where I was going to wait for it to come out and I'm glad I didn't because it's been a year since I had that game. At least I think it has been a year.
    40:09
    And obviously the code hasn't surfaced, so it is what it is. So going back on what we discussed a little bit earlier, because I won't tread on too much of the new topics, to go back on the Judge Dredd that I had purchased.
    40:27
    It was worth buying just to go back. It wasn't so like, oh, you know, I've bought it and it's terrible. The guy who sold me it had actually in his house for 18 years or his dad had in his house for 18 years. I think like for me I've noticed that seems to be a recurring thing for people who aren't on the forum and they sell on places like eBay they're very much isolated from that community, they don't understand it's even there and they sometimes carry these games for decades before they part ways with them this one definitely felt like it had been kept too long I would say without care and attention when my arm is finally in a position where it's not giving me complete agony. I'll get back to actually doing it up and fixing it.
    41:16
    It's like everything though for me. It has to look new. So I will be going against the original code for those out there listening. Sorry to say. It will have a new decal. It will go with effectively I suspect I'll probably even go for the effort of replacing the playfield in this one. I did have Judge Dredd before and I wouldn't say it's a terrible game. Neil would argue otherwise and probably called me an absolute imbecile for trying to spend money on this to get it restored to a level where it looks new i think for me um i like the theme for those of you that don't know what judge dread is but judge dread's very much like a game i say like you know if you know the comics um it's very much like a futuristic sci-fi gore fest you know it's all about an individual that is the judge jury and executioner lives in a mega city um with populances that are you know in the billions and crime is rife and i feel like that kind of like world like it's almost like i wouldn't call it post-apocalyptic but it's kind of like dystopian it's probably the word to use i like that um it doesn't really get dark enough in the game but obviously you know for the pinball machine because they've got to give it for like a general audience kind of score but it's still got some fairly graphic pieces anyone who's ever played it will know what i'm talking about when i refer to the sniper tower mode when that's quite humorous and still gory at the same time um personally i would love to see like uh any manufacturer go through any kind of like dystopian kind of license it'd be interesting to see a warhammer pinball machine um for those of you know i'm sure there's people that know what Warhammer is, but again, it's based around the universe where there's nothing but war.
    43:07
    And it's all about guns and violence and demons and all this kind of stuff. And I feel like, you know, given games have done like, I would say, dark themes in the past, or have had heavy metal kind of backgrounds and stuff, definitely would be interesting to see something like that. At least for me, I feel like there's probably some games that do want to do a dark license, you know, like Spooky. They do of games like Texas Chainsaw Massacre that obviously I would say completely goes against the let's not make it an 18 license and put gore in front of the playfield. It goes pretty much against I suppose what Stern was saying where they said like the licensor wasn't happy to put guns on the playfield because people who haven't played the game or aren't into the game can see violence and they don't want to portray that they just want to say well here's weapons his are baseball bats and pencils and nunchucks and whatever happens to be in john wick's repertoire but um i feel like it's a misstep not to put like violence in games where it's necessary if the license demands it it should show it so i'm hopeful that anybody gets like those kind of licenses where they've got like um how can i put an r-rated background that that you know it's the how can I put it, the manufacturer making it isn't afraid to put those on the playfield.
    44:32
    It'll be interesting to see what Spooky come up with next. I hope that it'll be something like The Thing. For me, at least, that's one of my all-time favourite films. And I'd love to see some sort of survival horror. I think Walking Dead's pretty good from Stern. They did a few integrations on that pretty well, even though the game itself is fairly brutal. and I didn't last long in my house but again, anybody who's played the Horde mode at the end of it, so the Wizard mode it's just amazing, that is done so well, if you ever want a game to build up your pulse and get you on edge, that game does it in that Wizard mode, I just think Geometry, it lets itself down a little bit, because the game feels like it's cheating you, I don't like games personally that do that, I'd rather have a game that just shoots easier. I don't know about anyone else, but I personally prefer games like Theatre of Magic because they give you the illusion that you play better than you do.
    45:32
    And I'd love to see somebody either remake Theatre of Magic or make a sequel to Theatre of Magic. We'll be touching on it later, and I imagine all these words might be edited out. We'll see if Neil feels like he needs to cut it out or not. But for me at least, the main benefit of having someone like Dutch Pinball's spin-off business going through it, they are going to be re-attempting licenses that won't be potentially ever see the live day before. So we'll hopefully see what happens from that.
    46:06
    Sorry, Scott. Well done for filling in, mate. It's alright. You can choose to edit it out later if you want.
    46:12
    Hold on. How do I fit my hand? Let me zoom out. For those of you watching in colour... In colour. You make you sound like Todd Tucky now. Hold on.
    46:26
    There we go. There you go. Guys, and this, we've just signed it, is the contract. Very nice. For the new club. We have autographed it.
    46:38
    Did you read through every page, Matt? No. I thought it was all good. What he's really done is burned away your house.
    46:46
    Actually, that is the one thing we definitely haven't done, because that was one of the things that they were like, we want a guarantee. We'll give you a guarantee. Here's a fiver.
    46:56
    No, actually the first landlord. Oh, they wanted a guarantor. Yeah, which is, I'll be honest with you, mate, for, so this is the issue with, what am I saying?
    47:12
    Renting, doing a lease, right? You have this scenario where legally, if you enter into a lease you get a bunch of rights but all landlords today make you sign those rights away because it requires them you know if they want to move you out a commercial lease they're required to release you a new place they're required to find you a new venue they want you to sign out of that but then we want to guarantee I'm like well why would I you're not doing anything for me anyway the place that we're working with actually it's part of Crowding Council So you are part of Westfields who run the malls in Croydon for the council, I think. Some weird set up like that. I've said they've been pretty good.
    48:00
    You know, and we've got, for the space that we've got, and if you go to our Facebook page, Pimple Republic Facebook page, I put a picture of it. We got a pretty good deal You know we like better but sadly we never going to get that It as good as we going to get Yeah exactly So anyway Matt here Are you able to divulge any details, how many games you might be able to fit in the new venue versus the old? Yeah, so I think we can fit more in. I think the question, and we're going to figure this out as we go along. So we'll start with probably what we had, about 60. but in the old club if you wanted to sit down after a game there was nowhere to sit I certainly want to get the balance between games and comfort a bit better than what we had because again if you're just visiting to flip a few games it's fine but if you're in a tournament if you're in a match play tournament you can be waiting 20 minutes for the next round. And in the old place, or even 10 minutes, you know, if Craig gets up and plays Godzilla, you could be waiting 50 minutes for the ball, and there's nowhere to hit. So, you know, that's the – so, you know, we'll figure that out. But I think if we pushed it, I could see us getting 100 games in there. Yeah, the big difference is that before we had a couple of areas, a couple of different rooms, a lounge and a separate space. now it's one big unit there is a little bit of room out the back where we can have a workshop for repairs and things but predominantly what people will see will be one big shop basically from initial character. Yeah I mean it's square so for pinball it kind of fits a little bit I mean there's a bunch of junk in it that they're going to have to sort out now. Is the floor all level and everything like that? Yeah the floor is level there's one bit of the floor that isn't quite level. It's a bit of, as you come out, but again, it's not likely where we would put any games anywhere. But I'd say it's, is it as perfect as we would like it? Probably not. Is it better than the old place? 100%. Yeah. We've got air conditioning, we've got doors that open right. I mean, the thing is, it's a retail unit and a shopping centre, so we're part of a community and the shopping centre, which means you can't just suddenly get a drill out and start drilling the front of the shop. There's processes that the shopping centre has. Is there sufficient room to get the games in and out? Have they got like a bay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, there's some... There's a couple of bits where it's tight and that's actually some of the changes we want to do before we open, especially to get games into the workshop area. Plus we might need a few more plug sockets Yeah we've got to put We've got to put more There's a bunch of Actually the power into the location is fine There's a bunch of stuff on the walls That we need to pull off Make that good, there's a bunch of stuff In the back There's a whole lot of junk that we want them to get rid of They're going to take care of that But yeah I mean look Hopefully within four to six weeks we're open Good But yeah there's a lot of work to do and actually we'll need everyone's help to kind of get that work done and so keep an eye out on our Facebook page. I might be able to lend you a hand but I won't be able to lend you two. Yeah, no, lefty, so... Yeah, I was just filling Matt. You don't know Matt. Yeah, I mean, we covered it at the beginning but I won't go over it too long but I did actually manage to do myself some harm. Unfortunately, I managed to damage my arm. That is funny. It is funny, yeah. It's just getting old, Matt. You can see yourself. This is Matt the mover. Yeah you watch yourself mate The pin might bite back So Luke yeah We were actually just talking about Pulp Fiction and our frustration At least my frustration With the build quality compared to Old CGC games Yeah it's not It's still in the garage I told them we had this event And it's sitting in the garage I haven't had a chance to get it out yet And in fact I'm probably not going to even bother because it's going to Swavesy so which is what two weeks time? It is coming up fast. Yeah Swavesy Pinball Festival Do you mean the cabinet?
    52:38
    No I mean there's a play field a couple of play field issues folks have got issues with the one of the boards the trough board just hasn't been as good as what I've been used to yeah I must admit my Monster Bash remake from the day I've had it is not a single issue that's super mine their games have been bulletproof but there's definitely it feels to me like there's a definite step back on Pulp Fiction it's still good but it should be better and I'm just trying to find Swavesey Pinball Weekend it is the 28th so it's two weeks away, the 28th to the 30th of June if you search for Swavesey Pinball event, it's on a Google site and there's some pictures of last year it was a good gig last year, first time I went actually Do you like the idea of pinball in a country pub?
    53:51
    Yeah it is I mean you know there's a couple of days of just people drinking and playing and then there's a tournament on the Sunday which is actually quite a light touch tournament it's a lot of fun basically it's a fundraiser it's a charity event Mark Swart has always organised it and helped raise money for various charities over the years I mean I'm not trying to think but imagine how much he's raised in total so last year it was 1700 for or UK PIPs, which is the primary immunodeficiency patient support. So people who've got issues with their immune system. I think one of the guys in the pub's daughter or something had it. I seem to remember. That sounds familiar. They pick a different charity every year. That's good. But, yeah, no, it's cool. So we'll be heading up there with – actually, the lineup they've got is, at the moment, Fishtails Roadshow. Oh, my God. Black Hole, 007 Jurassic Park Pulp Fiction, Space Team Twilight Zone, Circus Voltaire Transporter Marble Queen and TBC care of Matt I always wait to see what everyone else takes and then I just take something else so yeah look at it I would actually do alright with that kind of line up there's most of my games there yeah I'm slightly nervous about the competition, though.
    55:21
    I might have to take an EM, I think. No, God. No, not GG. You love that game. I do like it, but just not in a competition. I mean, just want to flip a coin. Trouble is, I might have to play it.
    55:34
    Yeah, so look, the thing we're going to talk about next, Matt, I don't know if you've seen the Alice in Wonderland video. Yes. I haven't seen the video. I've heard it's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, isn't it? So they don't get done by Disney for copyright. Ah, okay, that's interesting. Well, actually, Dave Stumbler, who's the other guy that's in that podcast? I forget his name. I'd be lying if I knew the name. Yeah. I can't lie. It's Dave Stumbler and his mate. Yeah, exactly. Actually, let me try and find it. It's called In Before the Lock. Actually, I've met this guy in Texas. Brian, what was it? No, hold on.
    56:15
    Wait a minute, wait a minute. Is that? this is not the right, that is not, there's another I've got one thing that's impressive there, production values are very good, it's doing a good job of presenting it looks very nice I just wish I had time to do stuff like that is the problem there's another podcast called In Before The Lock, but it's not about pinball it's yeah, so the other Q&A with Melvin Williams from DPX which is the new Dutch pinball exclusives and it's Rob from the Electric Playground and Dave from Stumbler Mods and they talk to him so I basically watched I didn't watch the whole thing, I watched the first hour of it because I wanted to get a sense, so for those of you that aren't aware, the genesis of this game came from John Popadook who's done Theater Magic World Cup Soccer Circus Voltaire a couple of other games Totem, basically games that I would probably carry out in a box apart from Theater Magic World Cup Soccer is alright and CV is alright they're usually pretty games I think the one thing I like about his games are his use of magnets he's very clever with it I mean, like, you look at, for instance, Circus Voltaire with the Bull Lock. That's very clever for me. I know most people don't like that game, but I love it personally. I think lots of people like Circus Voltaire, yeah. I mean, the ball just comes back to the flipper all the time. I mean, all of his games, I would say, are easy. Yeah, Theatre of Magic's a very generous game. Yeah, so, I mean, you're making that game tough.
    58:09
    Yeah, true. As in the World Championship. and actually congrats to Jason Zoller for winning that actually whilst I remember anyway so John Babadoo set up this company called Zidware is that right Zidware or something like that and he basically took loads of money off people for the promise of a number of games one of the games was Magic Girl and one of the games was this Alice I'm just going to call it Alice and of course you know, John Bobadoo, great at designing pinballs, doesn't have a freaking clue about running a business basically pockets all the money or at least spends all the money on trying to make the games come to life I think he built a magical prototype, I seem to remember there being one I think he built a game with a unnecessarily elaborate cabinet yeah It looked like he spent all his time trying to redesign it. That no one cares about. Yeah. And that's probably where all the money went. Sounds a bit like Galactic Tank Force with the tank cabinet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, they haven't gone. So anyway, he basically then disappears. People take him a core, and it's a bit of an ugly story. The whole thing you can find on Pinside. And then basically American Pinball, as it was. No, Deep Root. No, no, American Pinball first. Houdini.
    59:40
    So American Pinball get the rights to Houdini, which is the kind of follow-up to Theater Magical, although it's nowhere near as good. And I don't know where, if Houdini is, how much of John Papaduke is in Houdini, because I know they had someone else work on it and kind of finish it off. But he gives them that as part of that. They have to build 10 magic girls or something like that, which they built, but they didn't work because the game wasn't finished. They were basically a box of lights, and then Jim and a bunch of guys from Holland have made Magic Girl work, but it's a terrible game. I played it at... Actually, I had one at Pinfest. I don't know if you played it. Yeah, I played it at Pinfest. Yeah, it was not a great game. Looks lovely, and the art's beautiful, and then probably disappeared again, and actually hasn't resurfaced. Oh, sorry. actually did resurface at Deep Root where they built Raza. Of course, yeah. They built Raza, which I managed to play one or two games of it when it was on location. It was terrible as well. Again, he spent all the time rebuilding the cabinet and made it... Well, he focused on that weird interactive lock bar that no one really wanted. Pin bar that no one would give a shit about. Anyway, they went out of business. I don't know if Pappadook's been seen since.
    61:06
    But now, so a couple of his games are starting to appear. And actually, if you watch, I won't go into it, but if you watch the In Before the Lock, they go through kind of some of the genealogy of this game. Anyway, DPX have bought it. They're going to build it.
    61:24
    I personally kind of feel that, you know, there's a load of people that lost money. And for me, I kind of feel that maybe just spin all that shit and do something new. I'm not going to lie, I was interested in getting Alice I think what put me off a little bit is the price tag What did they announce the price for it? Yeah, they did, so they said it would be around $15,000 They're trying to get it below that, and they said if they will they're aiming to get it $13,000, but they said it will probably land somewhere between $15,000 and $16,000 obviously it's limited units so they said 250 that's a small number yeah so it's a small number and I think it's enough to turn around and say to a collector it will cost this much but we won't do any more and it goes back to what I was saying to you before I think Elvira was a good example of why you should not make better editions of a game when you're pissing off your collectors, especially with the Red Kids edition. That to me is the better edition of any of them. And it's like, I feel like if you're going to command a good amount of money for a game you cannot annoy your collectors like that.
    62:46
    Elvira was a it wasn't like a cornerstone so it was already more expensive. You can't buy a pro you get premium LE and they had an SLE which had a corner of Elvira's couch or something which sounds very suspect but yeah but look you know and I had some unique colours and then but they didn't just do it once they brought out what was it the 20th the 40th edition which I thought looked horrible I mean they had this weird colourings on it I just thought nah why would you buy that if you've got the LE and I think most LE owners were thinking that looks shit I can live with it I think that was yeah you're right and then okay we've got that one wrong we'll do another one and I saw the Blood Red edition at Stern's factory it looked absolutely staggeringly good I have to say because my Elvira which is in the corner there is a premium because so actually me and Tony Craigie what's Tony's surname from Medway Maloy me and Tony Maloy were at Expo and we were playing Elvira non-stop and we both loved it. I actually managed to pick the lock so I could turn the volume up and hear it.
    64:10
    Tony said, are you going to get one? I said, I'd love to get one. But if I turn up with a game with a woman on it with a big pair of knockers, excuse the vernacular, my wife will shoot me. But then, my wife and I go to the making of Elvira and what sort of What's her name? I forget her name.
    64:32
    Cassandra, yeah. She's there, and Cassandra tells her story, which super impresses my wife. And my wife says, we need to get one of these games. I'm like, are you joking me? This was six months later at Christmas. But all the LEs were gone. They were all gone. You're joking me. Anyway, Phil had a premium, so I got the premium. It's a great game. I love it. Lyman Sheets did a top job on the code. It is a good game. But I think, going back to Alice, that as long as they keep that quantity down and they stick to it and they don't release another version later on then they'll be okay but as soon as they start doing another edition yeah so they you know i think um and look if they if they you know if they you know they've clearly got over their worst of of big lebowski and that whole mess um well they're promising to i don't know which expo they were referring to but they said it would be at the next Expo, whether that's an American one I imagine it is. No, that'll be Chicago. So in October Chicago Expo is like the main pinball, main event for the pinball industry but a lot of regular pinball bozos like myself turn up so I'm going this year. Actually I'm doing another talk about the club shutting and reopening that'll be on stream and some pictures of Sarah's kitchen. Yeah. Actually, that was a great idea. Do you want to move your mic just a little bit closer for Matt?
    66:02
    No, no, it's all right. So, look, the – yeah, so I'll be at Expo. Look, I mean, the game, you know, if it follows the artwork that, you know, they previously showed, it'll be a beautiful game. I just hope that there's enough game in the game for it to justify its existence because a lot of these kind of collector-type games – well have you seen the shot underneath so that was in the thumbnail yeah so there's what it is why this is what i know so far so it's a two flipper two magnet flipper game so if you want to call it you know it's a bit like twilight zone it's using two magnets in the upper playfield as flippers um there's a staged magnet underneath on the playfield itself you can see a magnet there so it's definitely got a Papajou kind of like magnet trademark going on there it appears to have a subway the only thing that concerned me and again it goes back to what you touched on a little bit earlier with the PCBs weirdly the entire playfield is covered head to toe in a bunch of PCBs with cutouts for where the mechs will go but it's kind of like if there's an empty space it's being consumed by a PCB so it's a bit weird again if you're doing a lot of coloured LEDs in this game you can imagine Alice in Wonderland it's going to be a colour it'll be like JGP where they've got Godfather with multi-colour puke all over it it'll be like that they did talk about their light show being equivalent to Elton John so we'll see what that means but the other thing he mentioned, he said it will be a stop and go game. It won't be a flow monster. So I think that's because it's probably going to have modes in it. And you're probably going to be watching a bit on the screen to explain what's going on. And you probably could skip it with the buns. But he was very much like, it needs to tell a story. So again, I'm not that bothered. I know there's a lot of people out there who will go, I prefer a flow over a story. But I'm in probably a different camp to that. I like games that... So that probably means he's changing the design because Puppadoop games tend to be flow games. True. I was into Martin and Jonathan's podcast the other day. They mentioned that the guy that bought all the IPs from DeepRoot, apparently he's supposed to have redesigned or done some work to the design. Oh, okay. Yeah, he was talking about this. So basically there's a part where he starts saying he was given all the zip disks, which for those who don't know what the hell that is, but back in the noughties when we had MP3 players and stuff like that, you had these drives that basically was sat between a CD and a floppy disk. So about 120 megs, wasn't a huge amount of data. And there was really just basically large density disks that you could then pop in and out at will. And he said that he had to source a Macintosh of that era because he didn't really know any other way of doing it. You could have done it through emulation, but he just decided it was better to go on eBay, find a Macintosh of that era with the zip drive native to it. And then he basically accessed everything. He had Magic Girl. he had Raza, he had obviously Alice and a bunch of other stuff he said and he was saying that even Raza he was like already making changes to the ramps and he does plan to release Raza, he does plan to release Magic Girl so he's going to re-attempt releases of those games and that will be formed part of this DPX I mean two things if John Pappadook is getting a penny then I wouldn't touch any of these games so this is the weird part he addressed that he said so he said basically at the moment john papadu he's reached out to him and said would you like to be credited that's what he said just would you like to be credited and apparently he's had no response so he's left an empty space to say you know initial design or whatever you want to call it by john papadu but that's the extent of why i understand is what he's getting from all of this whether he got paid in the background for the source material? I don't know.
    70:14
    You'd expect he got paid by Deep Root. He got paid by either Deep Root or he got paid by Turner. No, Turner bought I'm pretty sure Turner bought the stuff in bankruptcy. So I can't say he got any of that money. I think he probably got some money from American Pinball when he was there. I mean, American Pinball took him on and got so much flack for taking him on, they basically got rid of him.
    70:40
    Which actually, probably in hindsight, I'm probably regretting to some extent because, you know, Deep Root managed to keep him on board, even though they never delivered anything that no one's surprised about. But, yeah, no, interesting.
    70:57
    We'll see how it goes. I mean, you know, a pinball without limited numbers is interesting. And, you know, it goes back to the thing. And actually, you know. Well, limited means limited, right? Yeah, I mean, I really. said that, I was in the first part of the show that I saw, it kind of really resonates with me because I'm genuinely hacked off that there's been 20 Elvira versions, they've done a Jurassic Park, what was the other game they did?
    71:29
    You may as well bring it up actually, the Vault Edition now of Iron Maiden. Is it really a Vault Edition?
    71:37
    That's the thing I was going to ask you. is it a remake or is it a vault edition? Oh, you mean Metallica? Oh, sorry, Metallica, my bad. No, I heard Iron Maiden, apparently some Australian distributor Well, that's what I saw, yeah. Well, Iron Maiden? But the wording was remake rather than vault. That's what I saw, yeah, remake. So, I could see Stern making more Iron Maidens. I'm fine with that, that's cool, right? Why would you remake? No, no, they're just fantastic. Yeah, no, but just, oh, what you mean make a new Iron Maiden pin? Well, I don't know. Maybe they'll fit it with an LCD screen and update the animations. What's Iron Maiden? Oh, it was LCD. No, Iron Maiden was LCD.
    72:19
    Maybe it be Spike 3 and whatever differences there are from that Well that so Ah yes Spike 3 I heard the entire main Let do Metallica first The rumours I heard on Metallica is it a completely New game, it's LCD And it's Spike 3, that's the rumours I've heard But then I had a rumour that said It's not a new game But they are updating it with LCD It's called Guardians of the Galaxy Well yeah although it doesn't have quite the same code, it's very similar shot wise it's similar, I couldn't agree more but there's elements that are different to it from a code point of view I've got to say Metallica LE is a great game I'll be honest with you there's some noughties games from Stern where I'm just like God, Game of Thrones as an example the DMD animation is terrible that definitely would do better with an LCD screen because they've just taken video assets and shoved it into a DMD. It just looks terrible. I think where they've hand-drawn DMD animations, I prefer it. Like, Ghostbusters looks great. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, shame about the game. But, no, I think, you know, can I see people buying a brand new... So suppose Rumor One's true and it's a completely new game. Can I see people buying it? If it's a good game, yes. and if you're a Metallica fan you'd probably buy it would I buy it? it would have to be a really good game because I can't stand the music I made it a little bit but for me it's just another if the game shoots well and it's fun to play then I would buy it but if I'm a real pinball Metallica fan and I've spent loads of money on the LE and I've got a topper and blah blah blah and then they bring this out, I'm like, well, this pissed me off, man. Much in the same way that the Jurassic Park 40th or 50th edition.
    74:24
    I just think, why the hell are you guys doing this? And then the rumour is they're making Godzilla, is it 70th? If that's true, I'm done buying LEs.
    74:36
    Well, I would be. It's so popular. It's like Adam's Gold, isn't it? It'll be that sort of kind of vibe. it just kind of feels they could do a special release right that doesn't take away the value of the original LE I doubt that they will I don't know how you balance that well so John Gomez said apparently it was on that arcade that it would be black and white like early Godzilla's I don't know about that but the thing is So George and Seth said that any new special editions will have premium style hardware, whatever that means, right? But then, you know, this leads me on to the next glorious Stern moment, which is the Jaws accessories. Where they're giving away the plunger with the barrel on it that was on the LE. So, you know, kiss goodbye to that. They brought a topper out. Same with the side armour, wasn't it? Because it looks like just the painted side armour. Yeah, the side armour has just not got paint on it. But again, I'm less worried about that. But they brought out this topper, a thousand quid.
    75:58
    And of course I've bought one, because I'm an idiot. Of course you have. You're part of the problem, Neil. I know I am part of the problem. But it gives me, like, I've got, this is the thing, I've got Venom with no topper. And it's driving me nuts. And Venom was out months before Jaws was, but... I think I wouldn't have a problem with the topper being priced the way it is if it was of quality like the Black Knight topper. Yeah. But no offence, put in a lenticure whatever they call it. Is it lenticure? Yeah. It's just basically like that cheap cardboard sticker that has basically two effects when you move your head. So instead of the gate moving in head, you've got to move your head to make interactions. I do like that it's got the original and then the vandalised. That is quite cool. It's not a thousand pounds gold, right? It's a 50p bit of material that they've just stuck on the topper and added some lights. I guarantee you the production value for that topper was probably less than $100. Easily, but this is the thing, right? I've got the Foo Fighters topper. It looks great, but it's effectively exactly the same topper as the Black Knight mechanically, except Black Knight I paid $400 for. That was $2,000, right? And unfortunately, Neil, you still bought it. I know, but when I saw it I was like, I've got to have that. I love toppers, I'm a sucker for toppers. The best topper for me was probably Black Knight and then second is probably Cactus Canyon because of the way it's interacted with the game. Cactus Canyon, the way, so it's kind of funny because I had a tournament here and someone's playing at Cactus Canyon and they hadn't realised that it started the game up above and they're like, what's going on? I was like, look up and then it's so well done that's how, do you know when it's a thousand pounds for that, I'd be like yeah absolutely, but a thousand pounds for a few LEDs that you could buy from AliExpress for a tenner I just, you know it kind of unfortunately there's you and a thousand other people buying those things if I could, you know if I did a, it could be worse, you know when people are paying like five grand for the Batman topper. Crazy. That's just bananas to me. But Lou? Same goes for the Ghostbusters topper, doesn't it? It commands crazy money. I know. And even, I mean, they brought out more Black Knight toppers. Even though everyone had paid $400 for them, they charged a grand for them. I'm like, this is a joke, basically. In comparison to that Jaws one, though, it's much better. Oh, yeah. 100%. And even, I mean, the Mandalorian topper, I got one of them and it's got an LCD screen. It's just quite cool. It was two grand, but again, there's no way. I mean, they're making 60%, 70% markup on that easily.
    78:47
    I just think, you know, I kind of you know, they wonder why people aren't buying games when the game prices have gone up. You know, John Wick has sold, you know, they've sold less John Wick than Liberal Democrats are going to get votes at the election. So, you know, it is Can you blame them though? No, I can't blame them. If I was them, I would do it. Exactly. They're selling.
    79:15
    100%. What I would like to see from Stern is them integrating the topper as part of the LE package. It should be. That was the thing with Stranger Things and the UV kit. The fact that it wasn't in the LE is just to this day I mean, I didn't really because it was only a couple of hundred quid I thought. a big deal. But the more I think about it and the more I kind of realise where we are with what they're doing, I just think, nah, they're taking the piss, basically. Anyway, I'm hopeful. I think Seth gets the limited edition. He's the new CEO of Stern.
    79:53
    I've spoke to him about this a couple of times. We'll see when the Godzilla 70th gets released. If it gets released and it looks better than the LE, I will be sending a big FU telegram to Stern Power. I will be out of buying LEs. I have not, since the Guns N' Roses debacle, I have not bought a Jersey Jack game, even though I would really like to buy Elton John because it looks and it plays pretty nice. It's the best game, hands down. No question about it. I forget what else was on their agenda, Scott.
    80:32
    We've covered off Alice, we've covered off the remake or potential re-ranking? The other thing Matt will probably want to run and hide was we were chuckling about the glorious community topic on the forum.
    80:48
    Okay, he's going to cover that. It's going to make you so uncomfortable now, Matt. I'm just going to... No, it's the last. It's a bit quiet.
    80:57
    Oh, that's still going, is it? No, they stopped it. It's kind of funny because it's like... What amuses me is, you know, people say, oh, well, we should let Neil and Colin back on. And everyone's like, no, don't let Neil back on. That fucking makes my day. It's like, yeah, OK.
    81:14
    To this day, it amazes me that people don't realise that you're permanently banned. I know, that's it. The guy's permanently banned.
    81:21
    Fair play. They banned me the third time, the final time I got banned. Actually, the first time, I dispute that there should have been a ban. I still dispute it. I think it's taking the piss. I was trying to be funny. And okay, some people... You could argue Carl was trying to be funny, but that didn't land too well either. Yeah, I know.
    81:46
    Take a view on that, right? And I get the view that this is the thing with this kind of... People are arguing about woke and all that shit, right? Colin deserves to be banned. He deserves to be banned, no question about it. Six months? I disagree with six months, but you can't say what he said. I agree. I think everyone gets that. I think it's the it's like he's been hung for stealing some candy. It's actually that's not a great comparison. I think it's more like he's been hung for I tell you what it feels like. It feels like he's been put in one of those like, you remember they used to put people in front of like a town hall and then they'd be clamped in and then they'd throw tomatoes out. Yeah, that's it. feels like. But look, the last two times I deserved to be banned because one, I told Wayne he was a dick and two, I basically was using another account, which are both bannable offences. I take the punishment. I'm quite happy with that. Speaking of Wayne, can I just say get well soon, buddy. Hope it's all going alright. Indeed, he's had a heart attack, I think, or something. Equally as bad as what I heard.
    83:02
    And yeah, so I just think I don't know, I just look at a forum and it's kind of, you know, I kind of think there's nothing missing here and all these WhatsApp groups. I think it's fair to say that the community is divided. How come I'm not on any? I'm on one or two, no, two WhatsApp groups and they're organising sort of committees. Are you not part of the secret pinball group? I'm not part of the Illuminati. I'm just watching I tell you what, that makes me happy because I'm at least in two of these groups so I don't know why but no, I mean look I've got loads of games to sell, they should be talking to me yeah exactly, so I just feel that you know, pinball forums as a whole, well actually forums as a whole were really affected by Facebook I used to race model cars we had all our own forums and Facebook appeared and everyone just went to Facebook right and I mean I wasn't a fan of that because I think as a way of running a group Facebook's terrible we run a couple and we run a club one I think most people use Discord these days yeah so Discord you know IFPA have got Discord I mean you're a man and Radie's got a great Discord and actually from a game actually I've got a couple of Discord channels that are work related now which is bizarre because I've got people pinging me about pinball and then people pinging me about internet stuff. It's just bizarre. But yeah, I mean, it's, you know, communities are evolving, but I do, you know, I feel for Colin and he's probably not that we've mentioned it, but... He's going to become the new COVID. Yeah, I know. He will. Yeah, but... It's definitely a milestone to talk about. I think the thing that surprised me the most on it... He pisses me off. Is he not going to InfoSense? No, he's not going. No. I think if you only have to look at the... it was last brought up and it was weird though because it was Jag555 also known as John who just simply said it's really quiet on the forum, why is that? and then everybody brought up Cole again and it felt like the emotions ran as high as they did the day he was banned that was the part I think that surprised me and there's a lot of things people are talking about walk and this here's what people should be judged on if anything it's the contact it's the it's the content of their character not whether they you know they're black white pink fat thin what it's like what is your character and and if people are you know and i don't believe colin is got a negative character um and and if you judge people on that then who cares you know it doesn't it doesn't nothing else comes into it And that's what the world has gone mad on because people get upset.
    85:58
    There could be things that are scientifically true that upset people. Well, that's tough luck. And people are more worried about being upset than they are the fact that this is a scientific truth.
    86:11
    We've had some people on the forum say, oh, you know, if you haven't gone to university, you're an uneducated boomer. It's just like... and the amount of and it was you can buy the t-shirts at i've got no education.com it was just a bit like how can you say something so callous and just go well i can't get any insult by it nothing it's just like there's nothing callous about it it was purely a lack of self-awareness the ego self-awareness um and and ultimately you know that's what you judge people on, hey, you've got no self-awareness. That's part of your character trait. You know, that's what you, you know, and yeah, okay, she's, you know, something, I mean, I thought it was hilarious when I saw it. For two reasons. A lot of people were in disbelief. It was just between the paragraphs of essays, it was there. I found that offensive because it was wrong. What it should have said was, it shouldn't have said that, you know, it was boomers. What was it? It should have said boomers. I think it was uneducated boomer. I'm sure it was. And most people in the forum are Gen Xers, so that's what I didn't get. I was like, holy shit, you've tried to insult people. You've tried to say something, you've insulted them, but you haven't actually insulted them properly. If you're going to insult people, get it right at least. Anyway, it made me chuckle, and a lot of other people chuckle. And like I say, I will have that t-shirt at Pinfest if you want to buy one.
    87:40
    So you're moving on from a exhibition? I'm going to have a t-shirt that has Pinball Forum Troll and on one side I'll have deleted member 2168 or whatever the number is and in the next day's t-shirt I'm actually going to say I am an educated Gen Xer There's another sentence isn't there that you need on the shirt What's that? There was another one I bust a gut at the UKCS and got 20 whoppers for it. No? Wasn't that one? You got referred to as something somewhere. It was mean, but it was quite funny. Ah, okay.
    88:20
    I don't mind. I'll need to search for it. It makes me chuckle. I've called Neil a horrible person. Look, this is the face of someone worried. If you're not watching on YouTube, I'm putting a face have a big smile on it. Anyway.
    88:40
    Anyway, yeah. Don't take things so freaking seriously is my advice. Well, can I just say, Colin, if you are watching, we love you. Nobody knew poorly.
    88:53
    Everyone has made a small mistake in their life. Yes, it deserved punishment, whatever that was. I think it was too harsh, personally. A whipping. It deserved a punishment. It shouldn't be the private conversation in my book. It's not appropriate.
    89:07
    I don't even believe the people that have given you the punishments either, to be fair. They're doing what they deem to be the right thing.
    89:15
    Yeah. You know, what was said was out of order, but I believe context is very important. Yeah. And I think, actually, you can say something much more hurtful without using particular words that would get you in trouble. Absolutely. Jaffa.
    89:31
    I asked about that on the forum. That's what I want to get. I want to get t-shirts with Jaffa and an orange. Neil, I'm sorry I had to look up what the hell that meant. But I can see why people would find it offensive. I'm not going to lie. Really? Yeah, I think they would. It's funny. My mate had been married for a couple of months. We hadn't heard that his wife was pregnant, so everyone started calling him Jaffa. It's just what we... You people are just uneducated boomers. What can I say? I don't care. I struggle with what's offensive about it. I think the problem is it's a cultural thing, right? It's not a cultural thing I'm looking for here. It's more like, you know, like if you ever watched old programs, if you ever watched Ricky Gervais, for God's sake, he says stuff that's insulting all the time. The point of the matter is a lot of things are taken as jest or in joke, and you shouldn't. Jokes are inherently offensive unless they're knock-knock jokes. It's whether you choose to take offense. True. And that is the whole, for me, that is the whole walk thing, which is, you know, something's funny, but my feelings are more hurt, so I'm going to play on my feelings of being hurt. Luke, don't get me wrong. We don't want to go out and deliberately – Yeah, we don't want to make people feel miserable, but at the same time, we're not intending to either. But, you know, if you can't laugh at yourself, fucking get a life, man, right? I just – I kind of struggle with that. And actually, there's a great Jimmy Carr thing where, you know, he talks about exactly this. and you know where he says something and he says I don't find that funny and then he says something else and well that's funny and he says no you get it because there are certain things that people find funny and certain things that aren't for me and this is a Frankie Boyle you know he talked about you know some of his comedy was just you know some people would just like walk out but it was funny but they would be walking out laughing it was funny they were offended by it they're like no this isn't for me but if it's funny it's funny and you know that is if the world stops laughing at things that are funny the world is a place I'm building a spacecraft and leaving because life's too short not to enjoy life You remember like old 90s classic Simpsons and then Homer Simpson I think he's watching a comedy act with this guy this black comedian on the stage and he goes white people drive like this no no so black people drive like this and white people drive like this and he was just going, it's so true, it's funny. But that's the thing. Stereotypes can be funny. People can have fun with stereotypes. It's just you don't take it too offensive. If you get offended by stereotypes, you've got to avoid nearly every Bailey Williams 90s game.
    92:11
    That's the irony. Some people on there talking about racial stereotypes being bad, but those people also are a fan of Roadshow. And last time I checked, Roadshow has the most racial element in it. It's got a taxi driver going, get out of my taxi cab. and it's like, it's an Indian taxi driver. Yeah.
    92:31
    There's a lot of outdated stuff. I mean, Attack from Mars does loads of very inaccurate, what's the word, accents and stuff like that. It's all jest. Yeah, I mean, this is it. And I think that's the thing here is what is the context? And I understand a pinball forum where, frankly, there's no life or deaths in a situation ever going to be on a pinball forum. Let's just chill out and take a time. Anyway, look, we've gotten on for way longer than we should have done.
    92:58
    For those of you who don't know, I chopped a bit out of this, which was Scott's monologue. You probably better do, anyway. I'll listen to it, and if it's rubbish, I'll chop it out. If not, I'll make you a special Scott on his own edition. No one's going to listen to that.
    93:14
    So a couple other things. First of all, UK Pinfest. It's the... What week is it? Hold on. Let's just get the dates.
    93:23
    You keep in the first... It's not on the bank holiday because they moved it for the clashing in the bench. Before the bank holiday, which is the 16th, 17th, 18th of August. Come along. We're bringing a lot of games from the club. You need to announce your games, Matt.
    93:44
    I do the same thing every year. I look at the list. I know you do. I've got what's not already there. You'd always get someone saying, oh, it's a shame this isn't there. and then you think, alright, I'll take the midi or whatever it might be so UK Pinfest we mentioned the club, hopefully we'll be opening, well, you know, in the next I'd be amazed if we're not open by August, but if we definitely we need to be open by August or there will be no more club because we'll have run out of money, but and then we've got UK Open which I kind of announced last week we're 27th to 29th of September unfortunately we're in the same venue but it is definitely the last time it's going to be in that venue because they are bloodsuckers and I think that's probably it in terms of events to talk about right now if you want to come and play Pulp Fiction we're going to have it at Swavesay I'm also taking it to UK Pinfest and you'll be able to play it there as well or hopefully CGC start shipping them I think Kirk's got some events at Tilt and there's some events also at the Pinball office Ah yeah so I mean look at ifbarpinball.com you'll see if there's any tournaments or stuff on but yeah feel free to jump in and with that Scott final words Don't lift stuff that is over your weight class Ha ha ha Yeah or phone Martin use someone else's arms or me or Matt crazy is that you want to enjoy wheeling football machines around Matt your final words give us a wave Scott two hands you're not going to trick me with the other hand look thanks everyone for tuning in if we offended you on this that was not our intent we would have been much more specific and saying that we were trying to offend you so please don't take offence and we'll see you on the next one which will probably be after Swavesey sometime towards the middle of July and then we'll probably do a special just ahead of Pinfest you're going to Pinfest Scott?
    96:05
    Yeah I should be Matt you're going to Pinfest obviously I'll be there so we'll see you there and remember folks enjoy playing pinball. Pinball, despite the fact I'm choking now, is not the end of the world if the forum isn't making you happy. Have a nice day from all of us.
    96:29
    Take care. Bye-bye.