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Episode - 29 Recording 1/25/2019 stranger things,the new pinball media

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 20m·analyzed·Jan 26, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Stranger Things pinball generates mixed early reviews amid concerns about Stern quality control and incomplete code at premium prices.

Summary

The Spinner Is Lit Podcast episode 29 features a roundtable discussion of the newly released Stranger Things pinball machine by Stern. Hosts and guests share mixed early impressions: while praising the Brian Eddy layout design and innovative projection features, they criticize the translite artwork as low-quality, report widespread ball lock mechanism failures, and express concern that Stern is releasing incomplete games at $6,000+ price points. The discussion escalates into broader industry critique about build quality, operator expectations, and the gap between casual location players and core enthusiasts.

Key Claims

  • The Stranger Things Pro ball lock mechanism is malfunctioning consistently across multiple machines, getting stuck behind the Demogorgon toy

    high confidence · Multiple speakers (Dan, Ryan, Spencer) report this issue from their location play experience; confirmed on live Twitch stream during episode

  • Stranger Things Pro retails for $6,000-$6,100

    high confidence · Spencer states 'the price on a pro now is 6K' and 'over 6K. What's it, 6,100, right?'

  • The Stranger Things translite/backglass artwork is low-quality and looks like cheap merchandise artwork

    high confidence · Dan: 'The Translite is awful. It looks like a bad photocopy.' Eric: 'The artwork is pretty bad.' Ryan: 'it just feels like they went real cheap on this one'

  • Stern is releasing games incomplete with minimal code to ship faster and reduce bill of materials

    medium confidence · Spencer: 'because of what Stern is doing to get games out faster, get games out maybe not cheaper but lower their bill of materials, you have a very basic... [failing] feature'

  • The game's playfield layout is similar to Attack from Mars, following Brian Eddy's typical design pattern

    high confidence · Dan: 'The playfield layout is very reminiscent of Attack on Mars, so it's good. It's definitely a box standard Brian Eddy.' Alex agrees: 'Obviously, it's a Brian Eddy game, so the layout's going to be similar to Attack of the Medieval'

  • Multiple players failed to achieve multiball on the machine due to lock mechanism failures

    high confidence · Dan: 'the lock mechanism always malfunctioned, and so I never got to play the actual multiball.' Spencer: 'None of us got multiball'

  • Stern games historically had test locations only in Chicago area; wider social media now prevents extended beta testing

    medium confidence · Spencer references Mike Vinacore discussing his Bally/Williams experience on 'Slapsafe': 'they would put them on test four, five, six months before they hit the streets. Right. To the operators. So I'll go through my quick review... they couldn't do that now because within 28 seconds, there would be pictures and video all over the internet'

Notable Quotes

  • “It's hard to have an opinion about it because of the fact that I didn't really even get a full game in.”

    Dan @ Early game review section — Sets tone for early experience being dominated by technical failures rather than gameplay assessment

  • “I would say that's probably one of the toughest shots in pinball along with the slam ramp and no good gophers in my opinion.”

    Alex @ Game difficulty discussion — Comments on Demogorgon shot difficulty relative to classic pinball challenges

  • “The ball would stick, it would go through five or six ball searches, and then it just shut your turn off and start the next turn.”

    Spencer @ Lock mechanism failure details — Specific technical failure mode that prevented gameplay progression

  • “When you're paying $6,000 for a game, there's some expectation of proper performance.”

    Spencer @ Price-to-quality discussion — Core argument that premium pricing requires premium quality

  • “Stern's bringing out brand new, brand new games that they're charging 6K for that are not complete.”

    Eric @ Build quality critique — Direct criticism of Stern's incomplete product strategy

  • “You gotta do better. We're asking nicely, but... you gotta have these things bulletproof.”

    Spencer @ Direct industry critique — Passionate call for quality improvements to coil stops and basic hardware

  • “This is what pinball 2000 tried to be... this is the perfect evolution and I can only see it getting better from here as they keep innovating.”

    Jamie @ Technology discussion — Positive framing of projection innovation as significant technological advancement

  • “You like pinball? I like pinball. Cool. We're friends.”

    Spencer @ Community inclusivity discussion — Expresses community philosophy of acceptance and shared passion across demographics

Entities

Stranger ThingsgameSpencer KlinginpersonDanpersonJamiepersonAlexpersonBrianpersonEric SelfordpersonRyanperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Stranger Things Pro machines experiencing consistent ball lock mechanism failures where balls get stuck behind Demogorgon toy, preventing multiball and game progression

    high · Multiple independent reports from location play (Dan, Ryan, Spencer, Eric) and confirmed on live Twitch stream during episode recording

  • ?

    product_concern: Stranger Things released with minimal/incomplete code; button presses don't function; limited game modes and depth

    high · Eric: 'it's unfortunate that the new games come with so little in the way of code.' Spencer: 'The button doesn't do anything yet'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Stranger Things Premium/LE features innovative projection-based playfield effects (Upside Down mode with flames, drop target interactions), representing significant technological evolution in pinball

    high · Jamie: 'The projection. I love the idea of the projection... This is what pinball 2000 tried to be... this is the perfect evolution'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Stranger Things experiencing poor initial reception due to technical failures and quality issues, despite interest in theme and Brian Eddy design

    high · Multiple negative assessments: 'didn't like it', 'not impressed', 'left down', with caveat that code updates and Premium/LE versions might change opinions

  • $

    market_signal: Stern pricing Pro models at $6,000-$6,100 with quality and completeness below customer expectations at that price tier

    high · Spencer: 'When you're paying $6,000 for a game, there's some expectation of proper performance... you can't take what works perhaps in the video game industry and apply it to pinball'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.242

0:00
Welcome to the Spinner is Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm your host Spencer Klingin. Tonight's episode, episode 29, Stranger Things, new pinball media. With us tonight are some members of the round table, some old, some new. We've got Dan and his lovely wife Jamie tonight. Greetings and salutations. Alex. What's up everybody? Brian. Hello. And Eric Selford. Greetings. And we're recording on the road tonight. We're at Eric's house and his mother-in-law pad above the garage, cool remodeled, very nice arcade slash bar. This is really sweet. So anyway, so yeah, we're recording tonight and what are we talking about tonight? All kinds of stuff. Well, let's start off with a review of Stranger Things. A bunch of us went and played it on location last Friday, a week ago. And so, Dan, I'm going to let you start. Stranger Things. It's a cool game. I didn't get to play it very much because it kept breaking. You want more? How did it break? What did you do to it? We're going to get into that. It's hard to have an opinion about it because of the fact that I didn't really even get a full game in. If I had to break it apart, I would just go ahead and start off by saying I didn't think it was a great looking game. I really couldn't hear the sound. The playfield layout is very reminiscent of Attack on Mars, so it's good. It's definitely a box standard Brian Eddy. Um, the full game that I got in was pretty cool. You hit the drop targets, it lowers the drawbridge and you're fighting the Demogorgon. I thought that was really cool, even though I could not hit the, uh, the Demogorgon to kill it. But it was a really cool, intense pitch battle. However, before I got to finish any one of my games, the lock mechanism always malfunctioned, and so I never got to play the actual multiball. Or I just sucked and I didn't manage to start the actual multiball. Which edition was it? It's the pro. The pro. Jamie, have you played it yet? I haven't had a chance to. I've been sick with a sinus infection, so yeah, I haven't really... The only thing that I've played in the last week was... I haven't played it yet. All of these are around a World Cup, because that's my baby. Yeah, so you guys have a nice World Cup. I do have my favorite. Alex, what's your first impressions of Stranger Things? It's pretty strange, but fun. Obviously, it's a Brian Eddy game, so the layout's going to be similar to Attack of the Medieval, with the Demogorgon bashing and all of that. I would have to say that's probably one of the toughest shots in pinball along with the slam ramp and no good gophers in my opinion. I like the game but I think I would probably play Jurassic over it. But I did enjoy playing it for the first time. I thought it had some pretty cool shots and I got to play it a lot more often than just Friday. So hoping to play it again soon. Yeah, because you hit me up like the next day and said hey you want to go or a couple days later. I was meeting up with Dave. Shout out to Big Dave, David Hornan, who plays in Lodi League. Right. And he was enjoying it too. Yeah. So, Alps and I were there the... We were there actually, and I was actually there the day it came out too. So, I've been kind of all over it as soon as it started to come out because I thought the layout looked pretty neat. Cool. Ryan? I can give two reviews. I can give a review for my son Atticus, who is four. And he said it was the worst game there. He did not like it at all.

  • The projection feature is innovative and represents significant evolution in pinball technology

    high confidence · Jamie: 'The stream itself, I don't think, is too amazing, but like the heart is changing... This is what pinball 2000 tried to be... this is the perfect evolution'

  • Stern is failing on basic hardware like coil stops and flippers in new machines

    medium confidence · Spencer: 'And the other thing that's failing on Stern, I hate to say it, is the flippers, but a very basic feature of the game that is failing within the first handful of games. And yeah, that's not to say anything about the issues that they're having with coil stops'

  • Casual location players may be deterred from pinball if machines don't work well, despite operators like Chris and Dallas quickly fixing issues

    medium confidence · Spencer: 'And if that game is set for a week, not only would it not make money for the op, but it's taking up space... people are just looking at it going, and they'll never play another pinball again'

  • “It just feels like they went real cheap on this one.”

    Ryan @ Artwork quality section — Summarizes perception of cost-cutting on backglass design despite premium pricing

  • “When I'm putting in a dollar, I'm putting in a significant amount of money and I expect proper entertainment.”

    Spencer @ Location player expectations discussion — Key insight into casual player psychology and value perception in arcade settings

    • Brian Eddy
    person
    Mike Vinacoreperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Chris and Dallasperson
    Greg Boneperson
    Zach Sharpperson
    David Hornanperson
    Atticusperson
    Sethperson
    Uncle Vito'svenue
    Orange Lounge Radioorganization
    Attack from Marsgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Final Fantasy XIVgame
  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern experiencing failures on basic hardware components (coil stops, flipper mechanisms) in new machines, suggesting cost-cutting or QC issues

    medium · Spencer: 'And the other thing that's failing on Stern, I hate to say it, is the flippers, but a very basic feature of the game that is failing within the first handful of games... And yeah, that's not to say anything about the issues that they're having with coil stops'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern appears to be prioritizing speed-to-market over completeness, releasing games with minimal code and basic features not fully tested

    medium · Spencer: 'because of what Stern is doing to get games out faster, get games out maybe not cheaper but lower their bill of materials, you have a very basic... [failing] feature'

  • ?

    community_signal: Social media enabling rapid criticism of products, leading to public disputes (Spencer apologizing for criticizing Greg Bone's Stranger Things Pro on sale post)

    high · Spencer publicly apologized for criticizing Stranger Things on Greg Bone's for-sale post, acknowledging he ripped on game/Stern rather than the seller

  • ?

    venue_signal: Quality operators like Chris and Dallas at The Retro responding quickly (within 12 hours) to machine failures with repairs, mitigating location experience impact

    high · Spencer: 'Chris and Dallas from the Retro... were down there within 12 hours fixing everything and getting it [working]... it's been running pretty good since'

  • ?

    code_update: Expectation among players that code updates will significantly improve Stranger Things experience with additional modes, features, and refinements

    high · Multiple speakers: Ryan 'when the code comes out... my mind may change', Spencer 'I look forward to seeing improved code'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Demogorgon shot reported as extremely difficult to hit, consistent across multiple players attempting shots during initial play sessions

    medium · Alex: 'That's probably one of the toughest shots in pinball', Spencer: 'It took me like 10 shots to kill the Demi Gorgon'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Casual location players view $1 play price as significant investment requiring quality experience to justify; broken machines directly impact future play willingness

    high · Spencer: 'A significant amount of money to most people... if they drop a dollar in that machine and they have a substandard experience, do you think that second dollar is coming? No.'

    • 3:51
    Before you say, well, he's only four years old, you know, his favorite game currently is Iron Maiden and Funhouse. So it's not like the kid has bad taste.
    3:59
    As far as it goes, I think the game is... I didn't like it. It was really hard to get into a game where the ball lock mechanism would break. It gets stuck behind the demo, like the Demogorgon.
    4:10
    It wasn't fun because it just, it broke. As far as the looks go, the Translite is awful. It looks like a bad photocopy of a real Translite. It is pretty cheesy. Yeah, I'm... it just feels like they went real cheap on this one. Again, maybe when the code comes out, like I find a game that works right, or I try a premium or an LE, and my mind may change. But right now, I'm just not impressed.
    4:35
    Eric? I was, I met up with Alex the day they put that thing in over at Uncle Vito's and it played okay, but just, it's unfortunate that the new games come with so little in the way of code. It makes playing them really more dependent on how good of a shooter it is. And my first impression was it wasn't that great of a shooter, but I really want to like the game. I really like the theme. I agree on the back glass. The artwork is pretty, it's pretty bad. I mean it's it seems pretty low quality considering the theme and the amount of the amount of fan base there is for that game you think they would want to go over the top on that thing but man it just it just feels that great I'm sorry it feels like a bummer because it's drawing from that 80s nostalgia and there's so much cool stuff they could have done using colors or schemes from the 80s with including the characters and it just they missed yeah the artwork just screams this is Netflix's Like standard artwork that you can use on Stranger Things merchandise, you know, please use that. Realty free. And for me, the other thing that I didn't like about it, and I mean, I'm sure I'm alone here, but I'm just like, I know it's iconic from the show, but I do not need to see a preteen girl with a nosebleed on the back glass. It's like, come on. Or if it's a Trudeau game. Right. Oh. Hmm. I'm not even sure what that means. I really want to... There we go. I was laying on the rim, Sean. Sorry. I really want to go take a look at it though, just from an art perspective. One of the first things I do whenever I see a new table is like, because I'm a graphic designer. The first thing I do is look at how do they brand it? How is the artwork on it? How does it tie in together? Do you see any obvious flaws or anything like that? And so for me, from all the promo work I saw and some of the stuff I watched people playing it online, it did look like a well-presented machine. But again, your mileage may vary. I might have a different opinion seeing it in person. But overall, I wasn't unhappy with the design and I really do like that whole sort of, you know, theater screen that you have in the background that lowers down for the I really like the ball up mechanism and I'm really disappointed but not entirely surprised to find that it's having issues, at least for the one you guys played. They're all having issues. And to be fair, that game was a demo at a show. Yes. They did not get that brand new in the box. But still, not good with Stern having that issue. But on top of that, isn't the whole point of having these demo units out also partly like beta testing? They get real-life play on them, then they go back, take that into wherever lab or whatever they do their work, and then try to fix it and make it better by seeing how people are actually playing it. Did they have cameras up in these places too? You know, it's not that kind of demo. It was more like it was at a show. But I mean, in other places, there'll be people monitoring it, right? Yeah. You'll have people working on it. They're going to monitor how it's going to work. First O bulky
    8:11
    Full School 죠 All of these are pinball. Mike Vinacourt just talked about that. He was on Slapsafe. Slapsafe Pinball? Yeah. And I was listening to the interview the other day in the truck, and he was talking about that very thing. When he worked at Bally Williams, there wasn't a winner there. Okay? So the only people on the test locations that would see the games or even know about the games would be the hardcore people in the Chicagoland area. So they would always go and play, because he was talking about one of the games he bought that he still has. I want to tell you it was, oh, God, it wasn't because he traded. That was a great story, too. But I'm kind of diverging here. It's really relevant to what we're going to talk about next. Yeah, but they would put them on test because they couldn't do that now because within 28 seconds, there would be pictures and video all over the internet, and it would blow their wad because it would be sick, Because they would have games on test four, five, six months before they hit the streets. Right. To the operators. So I'll go through my quick review of Stranger Things. Now having that news that it was a game and a show or something, okay, that kind of changes things. I was really excited to play it. Now I just started watching Stranger Things about two months ago when I heard the game was coming out. I started binge watching because I would come home and the boys would be watching it and I'd catch a clip or two. But then I started sitting down and watching it with them and I went back and viewed the at divanti keyes radio subtitle
    9:42
    man nasop Drank D So we all met and some of the best part of us meeting and all meeting at the pizza place was, you know, Seth wanted to come and he's usually kind of a homebody. Mickey was not feeling good because every, our house sounds like a TV ward right now. Everybody's getting over the crowd, man. So it really does. So, you know, Brian brought his boys out and there was a whole gang of us out on location playing. Kendra made it. Adam. Adam and his nephew Mad Max came out. It was a good turnout, just like Eric, you had said on the last episode at the end of the year, hey, let's make a pact in the new year, let's do more location play. So it was really exciting, we had a great group, and then, like you, Dan, I remember I walked up to the game, you're like, hey, bud, you're finishing up your game, it's like, hey, hitting the Demogorgon is going to be a little bit difficult, man. I'm like, okay. So I got my first game in, me and you and Seth, and it did okay. I don't think I locked up or lost any balls. I did. You know you did on that one game, but then so I was having a pretty good time. Yes Brian, Eddie, like okay like the left ramp I like the way it shoots up before the lock, but you know it just it feels good. It's similar to Attack Mars, but there's some differences. Now I noticed something, correct me if I'm wrong, because it was a really dark game and the place we're at it's really dark, which is kind of cool, but a lot of stuff I couldn't see. Plus this is radio or internet radio and you can't tell I'm really short. I got to stand on my tippy toes to see the top of the game, okay? But if you shoot that left orbit, there must be a diver because sometimes it'll come down the right ramp in turn. Yeah, that was really neat. That is really neat and I wanted to bring that up. That's a satisfying shot. That is a really satisfying shot. Or then you can shoot the right ramp and bring it down the right ramp. Like the premium version on Deadpool. Yeah, exactly. But it's true though. I thought, oh, I thought, yeah. Totally. Well, I love Deadpool but we won't get into that. Well, there wasn't a dig on it. Yeah, yeah. No, that was a dig on it. That was a really cool feature and nobody else has really mentioned that. I thought, oh, okay, so you can get the right ramp return two ways. Okay, that's cool. So I was having a good time. I don't think I got multiball. None of us got multiball. None of us got multiball, but I did kill the... It took me like 10 shots to kill the Demi Gorgon, and I thought, okay, maybe I just suck. But the game seemed level and it was set up good. Everything was working good. And after that, it really went downhill fast. Because the game wasn't working correctly, and I trust Atticus, and Atticus we trust. If he says something, I will hold him to it, because that kid loves Iron Maiden and Funhouse, and he's okay by me. You know who must have liked Stranger Things though? Was Seth, because I'm pretty sure Seth figured out a way to roll us every time we played. Yeah. He did. Yeah. He was wrecking us. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he was playing good. He loves the show. He looks kind of like one of the Stranger Things. He does. He's got that look, right? He's got that 80s nerd kid look. Oh, yeah. You know, he's going to end up being really rich because he's really smart. But anyway, so it really went downhill. Now, I'm going to throw this out here. I went on social media because I'm retarded. And we're not supposed to say that, are we? Okay. I'm special. Okay, and I ripped on Stranger Things pretty bad because I was really, I was let down, man, because, you know, the game, well, we'll get into, okay, real quick. What happened was is, first the ball just kept locking up, up behind the Demi Gorgon on all of us. So the ball would stick, it would go through five or six ball searches, and then it would just shut your turn off and start the next turn. Kandra's eating so finally she comes over to get on her first game her second ball she plays her second ball that I go up I'm going to go ahead and own it here because I'm a terrible human. I really am. I feel terrible about this. You vandalized Uncle Beto. No, I didn't. I wouldn't do that. Okay, so Greg Bone put up his pro for sale because I think he wants to get a premium or an LE. So there's a bunch of other people ranking on it. I don't know what I was thinking. It was late at night. I should have just let it go. But I went on there and I ripped on that game. And he called me out on it. He was right to do so. I removed those posts and I did apologize. And I'm going to apologize again to Greg Bone, who was a good dude. You monster. Yeah, no, it was not a cool thing to do. And I was really wrong to do it. Yeah, I just, like, I ranked on Stern, not him. Okay. You talking shit on the internet. I know. Now, you probably could have chosen a better forum for that than somebody's for sale podcast. Yes. And Greg Bone is, you know, generally a fairly standout, decent guy. Yes. You know. So I apologize to you, Greg Bone, if you hear this. Yeah. We're dozens of fans, no doubt. Yeah, well, some- Mass podcast standing. Right. Yeah, there we go. So- Right guys, pinballs? Yeah. So anyway, so, but you know, thinking about it more, the ops of Pinball Brothers, I think So, thinking about it more, the ops, who are the ops down there? Chris and Dallas from the Retro. Okay, Chris and Dallas are righteous dudes. They were down there within 12 hours fixing everything and getting it- Chris was. Okay, so Chris was. Dallas was out of town. Okay, well you're both righteous dudes. Thank you, Alex. So anyway, so they got it fixed really quick and it's been running pretty good since. The code is really, really- Premature. Yeah. The button doesn't do anything yet. I look forward to seeing improved code. Hopefully we'll have a lot more scenes and stuff from the game. Jamie, you brought up a wonderful point because you are able to look at it through a clear lens objectively being a graphics illustrator, a graphics designer. I was just taking a moment to look over the LE playfield. So I've got some thoughts on it already. The playfield I think is really beautiful. I like the projection. I love the idea of the projection. Yeah, you saw the video of the projector, the stream, Me Too, and the drop targets and everything, and people are kind of ranking on that. It's early, too. That's boss applesauce. It is, it is. That is awesome. The stream itself, I don't think, is too amazing, but like the heart is changing. That looks, with the flames. It's stuff like that that is the innovation that the console needs to keep it with this forward momentum. And so we've had the talk on my podcast and I'll talk about myself later. Yeah. Orange Lounge Radio, video game, I'll tell people about it later. But at any rate, I do Classic Pinball of the Month on my show. And we actually had a discussion about how people are like, oh, pinball is dying, whatever. But no, it's not. And it's within the last, what, decade or so that we've really had this. And as long as there's this innovation coming in, like, for example, Dialed In has its telephone on the screen and it incorporates into the gameplay. And then you have some of those more interactive elements like, well, just even with the screen itself on like, where's your pause in this Jersey Jack tables, how they play a little bit more into the action on the table. But now you have this full immersion. This is what pinball 2000 tried to be, I think. Right. Yeah. And so this is the perfect evolution and I can only see it getting better from here as they keep innovating. Cause that's what, this is the biggest thing that I think with, with any technology is that you have to find one And that's the only thing that is unexpected and to, I'm going to throw an Apple quote out here, you have to surprise and delight your audience. I love that. I'm going to go real retro with you. One of my all time favorite games, which I no longer own, but own one for several years and will own again someday, Whirlwind. Because you have the spinning disc. The air conditioner. The air conditioner. You have the spinning disc, but then you had the fan come on. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Larry K. Sheats Jr., Some, you know, some repairs and things.
    18:55
    We're not repair well, you know adjustments, you know, let's be fair Right. Yeah Brand new. Yeah, it's probably the newest machine that we've had access to in a long time And yeah, it was it was a pity that we didn't get The experience that we were hoping for but I mean that's that's pinball, right? And a year down the road, this will not be the same game that it was today. Right. How many tables have been like that? Didn't you even have that talk a few months ago about Ghostbusters? Ghostbusters, right. And it took years for Ghostbusters to get the update that everybody that or that some people Walking Dead was universally hated. Walking Dead. And now it's the beloved one. Metallica. Kiss. That game was awful. What they're doing with some of the classic tables, the mods to those, and they're moving life into it, but they're also updating rule sets to keep the games exciting. Well, but I mean, that's kind of aside from the point that it's like Stern's bringing out brand new, brand new games that they're charging 6K for that are not complete. You know what though This same thing is going on in the video game industry because how often do we have DLC comes out that fixes the game But how many games From what I hear the video game community is even more brutal than pinball people yeah but they're brutal in a different way right and we don't want to start that thread like on pin side girl I'll just talk about DRC or whatever that thing is yeah digitalized DRM the rights management yeah the whole thing with it though is The thing is that when people are passionate about something and they really like it, they're going to get bent about it. Yeah. The trolling will happen. Yeah. Right, but new pinball enthusiasts are another breed. And again, you've got to really consider that, like, the cheapest pinball machines these days are probably a thousand plus. When you get into the realm of new in box, you're talking about $6,000. And when you're paying $6,000 for a game, there's some expectation. There's some expectation of proper performance. And that was kind of my point is that you can't take what works perhaps in the video game industry and apply it to pinball because you do have a higher price point on it. You can't just say, oh, we'll release this patch, great, the game's fixed. Now it won't, you know, soft lock you or something. Whereas, you know, I want this lock to work. Why is it not working? Why is it doing the thing? Well, there's two different problems there. You know, the first problem is that somehow that game got released with an easy fail mechanism. And it would be fine if it was an easy fail mechanism that you're like, oh, that's incredibly complex and it does something cool that you've never seen before. It is an up-post. It is a feature that has been on zillions of games. And in a lot of games, that up-post, like a monopoly, like you drill that up-post 50 times a game and it performs fine. I've never had a problem with it. Years and years and years. But on this new game, because of what Stern is doing to get games out faster, get games out maybe not cheaper but lower their bill of materials, you have a very basic... And the other thing that's failing on Stern, I hate to say it, is the flippers, but a very basic feature of the game that is failing within the first handful of games. And yeah, that's not to say anything about the issues that they're having with coil stops. Jeff Explode. I'm glad you brought that up because that was going into our next thing about the build quality. That's what I was doing. It was called a Segway. It was a Segway. It was genius. It was beautiful. And we're not talking over each other. We're improving. We're good at this. We are good at this. We are podcasting professionals. Yeah, damn right. Yes. Wait, that means we get paid. We are podcasting amateurs. I've been doing this this long and we're not making what? Hey, you made what? 47 cents last week. I'm going to put that into perspective. Jamie has been podcasting before podcasting was a thing. We did internet radio back on this thing called Live 365. And we actually stay live for our recordings now, but we've just taken the live experience and just said, hey, pop that out on recording. It's like, we'll do it live. We do that as well because Spencer is too lazy to edit. The only reason that we have- I'm editing tonight. He is editing tonight. Well, the other reason, and by the way, our gift to you is a gift from Orange Lounge Radio, which is my podcast. Read out that orangeloungeradio.com. No, it's actually VOG Network. And that gift was a beautiful gift. Read out that VOG Network.com. The voice of gamers. I'll get it out of the way. No, please. Orange Lounge Radio is a podcast about video games, video game lifestyle, and where every gamer has a voice. We broadcast live at 6 o'clock PM on Twitch TV slash VOG Network, V like Victor, O like We're a three-hour trainwreck where we talk about video games old and new and I do a little pinball thing once a month. I love it. That's awesome. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that. We have the distinction of being a very LGBT plus positive podcast as well as being open to all the voices of the gamer community so that everyone does get a voice. Awesome. I love that. So it's basically anybody, everybody. We are officially the longest running video game podcast on the internet ever. That's awesome. This is incredible. We could submit for a Guinness World Record. Wow. We actually talked about it. I always like to tell people I call it the sandbox. The sandbox philosophy. The sandbox effect. When you're five, you're in a sandbox at the park. And another kid comes in and they're playing in the sandbox. And you're like, oh, you like candy? I like candy. We're friends. That's pinball. That's video games. And that's what I love about it. We don't care. It got brought up on Pinside. And I posted something to the effect of, you know, we have about 30 people that come to our league regularly. Of that, like I counted into my head, nine are women. Okay, we have Hispanic and Asian. We even have a French person. And I said, yeah, and I said, I said, you know what? Nobody cares. And I put in caps, no one. You know what it is? It's like, oh, you like pinball? I like pinball. Cool. We're friends. I love it. No drama. This is how it should be. Me? No, not you. Sorry, it's been a long day at work. Nick, thank you. I thought Nick was Greek. No, he's French. Al Ingram- All below, John PackerJosh США, folksеди.in. Friedman, Tom Corbin, Andy Kudrow, David Adams, Matt Mahal and Gordon I'm not going to say Stein, I don't know. But anyway, but Nick, okay, he has the most beautiful, he's a great dude. Anyway, so he's French. But I emphasize that point of like, it's acceptance because, oh, we like the same things. Oh, cool. And we're having fun. So, okay, so Bill Quad, yeah, so I went nuts on the internet. Oh, what was I thinking? But here's the thing, like, I sat and had dinner with Mike Vinacore and Tanyo Klyce, thank you, at the dinner last year at the Golden State Pinball Festival, and we had a wonderful time. We talked, I mean, these guys are just down to earth good dudes, and I know they're passionate, and I know they love what they do. So I don't want to rank on them. That wouldn't be cool because they put their heart and soul into every game they make. So, you know, Brian Eddy coming back and, you know, everybody goes on about Attack for Mars and Medieval Madness. Yes, because they're great games. But then again, so is Shadow and that's a departure from any, either, any of those games. I will say this. I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's the bean counters, but, you know, they always say we want to grow pinball. We want to grow pinball and they are growing pinball. But guys, somebody, the casual player that doesn't go on the internet, look at pinball, If someone that doesn't go to shows, doesn't watch Twitch streams, doesn't listen to a podcast like this and it's probably better than you but that they will be usually overwhelmed
    27:39
    at the end of the day their channel will not be paying them. This is how... Stop right there real quick. They're going to put in a dollar. Yeah. Which is not an insignificant amount of money to most people. Yeah. Right. That's a whole taco. That is a whole taco. I'm telling you, man. And we were talking about this real quick, coming home from league, me and Henry, where it was just like, 50 cents is what a pinball is supposed to cost. Now, we know that's not realistic, because pinball machines are $6,000. So we understand that a dollar is reasonable, but somewhere... Exactly. And I'm going to give you a little P-brain, like the difference between seven and five cents and a dollar is more than a quarter. It's the perception that when I'm putting in a dollar, I'm putting in a significant amount of money and I expect proper entertainment. And to the person who especially doesn't understand that it's like, hey man, these machines are $6,000. If they drop a dollar in that machine and they have a substandard experience, do you think that second dollar is coming? No, no, please continue. Just that was a great like I'm just like a buck is a lot of money on location. Yes. Yes. And I'm glad you chimed in because you you emphasize that point even more. And you know, they get everybody in the industry. And I've been listening to so many podcasts lately, you know, because I've been out on the road a lot. So you know, they had Zach Sharp on one of the shows last week. And he was talking about that he was growing pinball. And I know these guys are passionate. I know they put their heart and soul into it. And you know, and God bless them. And thank you guys. All of you who work in the pinball industry for what you do. But guys, that's how your product, that's how your license is being represented out there. You guys need to step up your game, plain and simple. And the price on a pro now is 6K and you're putting that out over 6K. Over 6K. What's it, 6,100, right? Yeah. Okay. And that's the quality, that's how your product and you're representing that license. You've got to step it up. You've got to do better. The coil stops, those little parts. I know, look, dude, stop, tell, tell Gary, tell the bean counters to jam it in their butt. You've got to have these things bulletproof. And thank God for good ops, because if that game is set for a week, not only would it not make money for the op, but it's taking up space and it shut off. And then people are just looking at it going, and they'll never play another pinball again. Or maybe they will. I don't know. But my whole point is, is You know, you gotta do better. We're asking nicely, but, you know, because we're not gonna put money, look, I don't, you know, I'm gonna go back and put money into it, but I'm insane. But, you know, I wanna go put money into it with my boys in our group, and I want it at least working well so I can have an enjoyable experience. This also does work back into the branding aspect of it as well, because your first, like, I'm gonna throw out another example as far as video game goes. Final Fantasy XIV, MMO. When it first came out, it was garbage. It pushed people away from the entire Final Fantasy franchise for a lot of people. But they went back, completely revamped it, put it out as this thing called a Realm Reborn. Suddenly it is the most popular MMO and it's beating out World of Warcraft. Because they played their branding right. They said, we made a mistake. And that's what a lot of these companies, when they're putting out a product that's going to have all these failures on it, they need to also admit, hey, we did this wrong. Here's how we're going to make it right. And we're not going to penalize the player for it. Which Stern will never, ever do. But that's what needs to happen. They will never cop to being wrong. That builds confidence in the company and its product. And you, all great points. Brian, you got anything to add to this? I'm watching the live Twitch stream here of them playing the Stranger Things. I thought it was a premium or an LE, I can't tell. It's an LE, but I think they said it was a premium, but it's an LE that they're playing. But I did really enjoy the fact that the same exact problem we have with the ball getting stuck around the Demogorgon. Within 10 minutes of the stream starting, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Well, I mean, to go to the other extreme too, it's like, okay, so you're a route player, you know, punches a dollar into a game. You're a pinball layman, the person who does not know their way around pinball. Look, we're all seasoned pinball players, and our first impressions of this game are negative because of what happened when we played it on location. What happens if we're unboxing one and we're setting it up? You know, it's our game. We've paid the money, you know, we've paid the $6,000, we've brought it home, we're setting it up. And within 100 plays, we're having these failures. Like, what does that do to the confidence, like Jamie was speaking of, in Stern? What does that do with your confidence in the product? And like how much, you know, I know, and this is gonna come off really arrogant, but there are a lot of dudes out there who have more money than pinball says. And like, they are extremely upset that like they spent this money on a game and it wasn't dead solid perfect out of the package. Everything didn't work exactly right. And it's like, hey, bro, that's pinball. They're complicated machines. They're gonna need some adjustment. They're gonna need some fixing. It's a mechanical device. Right, but these are basic parts and they're not failing in one out of every hundred games. They're failing regularly. You know, like everybody who touches this game experiences this problem. Jurassic Park has had huge issues with coil stops, not to mention the playfields jumping off the game and running away. You know, there's just gigantic quality issues. To me, like, I'm looking for my first new in box game. I've always been like, you know, I am really happy buying my new games. I really am. And I have some expensive ones. I paid more than the new one box for some of these games because they're rare, high end titles. That's great. But like, I want to open a box someday. And when I open that box, I want to have an experience that will not be selling by, oh, my brand new life of my life is broken. You know, the node board failed, the playfield's cracking, the playfield's cracking, oh my god, like that's terrible. Or just something stupid happened, like the coil stops failed in the 100-point. That Stranger Things that we played on our local, at our local pizza place, the first night it was tilting out. Yeah. To the point where you'd start a game and you'd just play and you didn't touch it, and it would tilt through. You're done. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah. And that's just... How are you supposed to live with that? So it comes down to setup, right? Like, did the operator go in? Did they set up the tilt? It wasn't, it was not a thorough setup. No, we played it, and it played fine, and then all of a sudden it just started tilting out. But I watched him set it up, too. He did not check the tilt bar, assuming it's lucky luck. He just made sure the dollar accepted, and that was it. But I agree with what Dan's saying. If you're going to make that outlay of a significant amount of your money, and you pull the thing out of the box, and you have a poor experience, It's not ideal. I mean, you're gonna be pissed. I mean, you're gonna be livid. It's not like you just lost a dollar at an arcade. You just spent, you know, you could have bought a decent used car, but instead you got this pinball machine and it's messed up. Right. And the worst thing is, the worst thing of all is when it really fails, like a node work or something fails, and it's sitting there. It's down. And you're looking at it. And you want to play it. You want to play it so bad! And you can't, it's just like, and, and, you know, to be honest, man, I can kind of see Stern's point of view. They've got dudes hooked through the bag. Oh, yeah. Like, they're coming back. They're, they're, you know, accepting, they're accepting the failures as, as life in the big city, you know, but like, just for what you're paying for these games now, it's like, the quality just needs to be there. I have to cut in and just say watching the live stream on Deadflips and seeing Brian Eddy get a straight down the middle when he's trying to go for the when he's trying to go for the... Dan McGorgon is just the story of my life. And seeing the look on his face is extremely satisfying to me. Yes. I want to rewind that and watch that again. Just the look of despair. That is genius design. Like these machines aren't designed for us to kick their ass. They're designed to wreck us. Please do, yeah. Pinball machines are a money making device. They've always been designed with high risk shots to lose your ball. They're made to take in your money and I've always been very, just like you guys don't get it when people complain about that. Like, oh this has a cheap shot, I missed a shot, it breaks down the middle. That's what it's supposed to do. Right. It's a pinball. It's a game of skill and it's designed to take your money. Big risk, big reward. Exactly. And you play, you know, I got to get the ball to the basketball hoop and the hoop's not the right size or the ball's over the plate. That's what they're supposed to do. Don't be upset by it. It's difficult. Play better. You just got to work. Yeah. Why do you think Steve Ritchie says, give me your money and play better? Yeah. Exactly. So have we gone through Stranger Things and all that? We covered that pretty thoroughly. I mean, does anybody have any more thoughts on the quality and price this year? I mean, I know everybody in the pinball hobby. And all the all the podcasts have like beat this to death but this is I think the first time that a lot of a lot of us other than you know the Jurassic Park issue that one of our locals has had has really caught like this quality thing right in the face. Yeah. Like you know we all touched the game and we all felt it and it's just a real real thing that you know our first experience with this game was so bad because with Jurassic at the very least you know we were playing that game and we were convinced of its quality And then playfield issues popped up. Stranger Things might be getting cut off the knees because they can't make them work. Or they can't keep working. And there are bypasses. They can remove the post, they can set the game for virtual locks, but do you want 80% of the experience or do you want 100% of the experience? Right. If I was spending $6,000 and I was walking home with one of these games, I would really hope that, You know, at the very least, get your game from a good distributor who's going to have your back and, you know, be patient and your problems will hopefully be addressed. You know, be, you know, do it right. I'll tell you right now, if I had money to drop on a new unboxed game, it would be an attack from Mars Roommate. That would be my first choice. Yeah, I just because I love that game so much but also because I'm you know I haven't heard Chicago Gaming having any issues. Oh, they've had issues. There was a big flipper power issue with Attack from Mars remakes specifically. Okay. For whatever reason the program somewhere between somewhere between Medieval Madness remake and Attack from Mars remake, they're like we did some of the flipper programming and it was different but they addressed it. I haven't heard of We have a lot of big physical problems, I guess, one of the games. Medieval Madness did have problems with the slingshot over the mountain, people were still living there at the top of the mountain. Yeah, Medieval Madness had some issues early on, but I mean, just a lot of what happens with any game is just hands. It's hand assembled by, you know, skill, but, you know, not exactly, you know, the top end of, you know, labor. Right. And, you know, because they have to get the game out there, they have to make some money. I'm going to go with the money, but Chicago gave me like, yeah, if I was going to be a My second choice would be a Deadpool pro, so. Yeah, if I was going to be one. I haven't heard of any puns about Deadpool. Yeah, me too, neither. No, man. You know, there's nothing to be said. Love Deadpool. Deadpool sucks. But not me. Hey! So speaking of, hey! So speaking of not Deadpool, but Playfields and games, we're up, well up next is Brian with his repair log. Star Trek, on Data East, 25th anniversary of Star Trek. Yeah, it came out great. Back story for everyone who's known us, they know us of course. And I'll be posting the pictures on Facebook. Yeah, so by tomorrow the photos will be on our Facebook page. I need to get to the actual reel before, the one I posted online was not the first before picture. Basically long story short is I been working through games for a local collector ones you want to fix either shopped out boarded whatever name it And on this particular game Star Trek you supposed to be at a simple shop job you know the sound was working with a deal Tore it down and found out that the right screw had a clippy on it, okay, cool, but the wood, like the first layer of plywood had delaminated away from it. And after looking like an Izzy's game or something like that, it's a common wear spot because of the way the ball kicks out. I took off the protector and ended up having to replace, you know, fix the hole. And it's really my first time I've done it, but the whole way was minimal. And where the delamination happened, it was so thin that my normal wood epoxy repaired it, it was, it would have been too thick. So I used JBL for the first time. And I used that and got the sides built up. And then for the very part of the delamination happened, it was a mixture of JBL and car spot plate. And I was able to get that on there, get it nice and smooth, and it came out great. I'm really happy with it. It's by far the best one I've done so far. Well, you repainted over everything. It looks beautiful. Yeah. So we'll show the before and after, or like before, during, and after. Yeah, the paint, I got real lucky. The wood ended up being a relatively easy match, and wood for me is a difficult one to match because I usually go off the exposed wood that's on the closest piece next to it. Daniel Pellett, CEO, Concert N Trust Edition Opticons,
    41:56
    T I painted that on and it dried flat like it always does and it was a little lighter but with the colors I use usually once I do a verithane spot clear on it because I'm not going to clear coat the entire playfield for this. It darkens it up a little bit and it glosses it and it came out looking great. I cut some mylar around it to fit on the outside but the ball kicks out so we're not going to have that wear happening there again. Slot the protective back on it and it came out really nice. Yeah, just from the photos, the work looks really good. Yeah, it's, I wasn't expecting to have to do it. I was kind of, I knew about the delamination point. I just figured out it's got a clip. You've ever had it before. Fixed that. It didn't. I'm not even touching the other one because it's, it's fine as far as I can tell. It's, it's going to be done hopefully within a week or so. I got it, ordered the bulbs and it's just reassembling. Cool. And then that game goes back to Henry. I have Dan lined up for World Cup soccer. I got a ramp that Henry wants to flame polish. I have a Joust in line from Todd. Joust? Pinball? Yeah. Okay. Wow, that's been in line for a while. It has. It's just a matter of Todd getting it over to the house. How about an update on free Riverboat gameplay? Oh yeah, the free games. I don't know that fucking Riverboat. Why this is all going on with the Star Trek, you know, because it takes, you gotta, it takes a while to do a whole repair. You know, you put the stuff on, you gotta let it dry completely, you sand it, you do another layer, et cetera, et cetera. It's not just a one day process thing. I started ripping into the riverboat gambler and taking that all apart. I forgot that it is a System 11, which means that there's Loctite on every stinking post you screw in that thing. I've dealt with it before. Pulse Snapper. High Speed had it. Furshaker had it. Basically every System 11 I've done has had it. These guys went overboard and it looks like they literally... Mine has a WPC. But it still has Loctite. Oh yeah. But yeah, so yeah, the WPC. These ones have been overboard and every single screw and post was dipped all the threads. Not just a little bit, like the screws all the way up to the end of the screw. I'm really surprised that you used lock cut on such small sized bass. Is this from the factory or is this... Okay, yeah, it was a factory thing. Normally for a game, it would be like a keeper, like when I did my earth shaker, I got frustrated and I screwed this and I grabbed my dremel and I chopped everything off and just ordered new stuff. Because it's quicker and a lot longer. I'm a professional pinball player. But this isn't a game I intend on keeping too long. Like, I'll play it and then I'll trade, sell it, whatever. So I went the long route and, you know, took time instead of money to fix it up. I got that all done. Adam Pressler came and helped me out. I had to drill out the lock screw on one of the diverters because it was in there. It would not move. I tried heating it. I tried soaking it in a PD Blaster for a few days. That thing wouldn't move. It was in there. When we drilled it out, got that fixed. It's down in the woods right now. And just cleaning up the Novus, whatever, cleaning up the previous owner. Literally shot like half a bottle. It's everywhere. Only half a bottle? Not nearly enough! Yeah, it is everywhere. And this game is dirty. I don't know if it's been chopped out in God knows how long. Can we just spray the Novus on there and then leave it there? Make sure it didn't look like it. Wow. It basically looked like it was from the park. I was thinking the same thing. The muddy shot! Yeah, um, it's so bad that, you know, they're during like round eight of the mile and it's not coming out. Like, it's gonna match the race on the mile, which I've never had to do before. It's gonna be nice, once I got the big main ramp out, you know, there's not much to that game, it's coming along, it's slowly, it's trending nicely. Um, maybe a month or so I'll be ready, you know, you'll be playing them, uh, I haven't touched any metal meltdown. That's going to be a major, major project that I'm looking forward and not looking forward to at the same time. It should rock. Oh, it's going to be awesome. It should rock. Metal meltdown. Yeah, we haven't had a meltdown. It's going to be fun. It's just the more I read about things, the more research I do, it's just I realize how it's a completely different work set and mindset than what I'm used to doing. You know, I've read about, you gotta, when you do the remote batteries, you have to leave the other one in there, and then tie the remote battery, then clip out the old one, that way you don't have to do the reset sequence with that stupid controller. Thank God I have one, because usually they don't come with the game, you don't lose them. Yeah. But, it's, it's difficult, you know. And Dan's been working on his... Free Black Rose Lens! I mean, it doesn't work, but it is alive. It kinda works. It's wide enough. It'll boot up. Well, it'll boot. It'll coin up. Uh, so, so far, Brian, uh, we immediately pulled the Power Driver Board. We did, I mean, we turned it on, we saw it turn on. We said, this Power Driver Board is shot, the connectors were burned to a crisp. Uh, Brian took the board, did some rebuilding on it. Somehow we found time in the middle of all of his other game projects. And I just sort of looked at it for a week. And then Brian came by and we installed all new flipper mechanisms in it. And then I sort of looked at it for three more weeks. And then just this morning I installed the board, I replaced the connectors, I wrapped up the flipper install, not completely out of the business flippers, powered it up, you know, went past the settings restore because there's no batteries in it, and I got a ground row short. So now I got to track down the ground row short. But we're moving on Project Free Rock Rose. So very exciting news in the land of the freebie games. We might have three working freebie games before too long. Well, everyone in the whole town is for a rewind project. But you know what? We might have two working freebie games. You guys are making great progress on those, so you know. You know what? Considering that, again, they were gifted from a local pinball guy, and he had basically Alan Wannman, Interesting We can't, they don't work, you can't play them, we can't play them, ain't no fun. I, I would like to say that the Fleabag Black Rose flippers are pretty awesome. Uh, one of the flippers that I have parts from Williams, Data East, and Sega. It was pretty impressive. It was pretty neat. Um, it had some really interesting custom coil stops. Um, they were, like, bolted in. Yeah, I saved them because I, I wanted to take them apart and see exactly what it did. Because obviously they worked. We're gonna send them to Stern. Yeah, and be like, Hey guys, great idea. But it was just interesting, as you take it apart, you know, like one of the flippers, it's got the Williams coil base, it's got a Data East flipper coil in there, and then it's got a Sega flipper ball, and it's just... Yeah, it had a real weird bushing, I mean, it was strange. Wow. And here's one of the weirdest things, too. Not a re-import. Oh, wow. Like, you hear what we're saying and you think automatically, oh yeah, well this game came back from Europe, they couldn't get parts, or it was in South America or something like that. No, this is a domestic game. Like just whoever had this game before whoever had it before us did some very very interesting repair work on it. Did you ever notice, because I don't know if I ever showed you this or brought it up, on the other Black Rose, the one you got for me. Oh, the Spencer Black Rose? Yeah, did you notice there's a mechanical counter built into the bottom of that thing? How could I miss it? So, I think we did talk about it once before. It works! And it works! It works! I want to take it out, but it's really entwined into the wiring harness of the game, and I know that that's going to be a little fun. That was the weirdest thing when I saw that. I was like, what the hell? And it doesn't seem to screw with anything, so right now I'm just leaving it all alone. But yeah, I would start a game and I'd pay this big ol' cluck, and I'm just like, what the crap is that? Yeah. And yeah, there's this old school counter, you know, and it actually, it records when you press start. Start. Is that leftover from the EM period or something? It looks like it. I would assume it is. My guess was in that game was out on route. Whoever had that particular route, I bet put them into all of his games. So you can compare that physical count to the money that came in. Yeah. So in those games you can erase, oh, you know, say that person who had the game, you know, the location had a key. He could take as much money out of there as he wanted and reset to show, hey, man, you only had like five plays. Right. So it's only like a couple of games. Yeah. So you can take that money out of there and reset it to show, hey, man, you only had like five plays. Right. So it's only like a couple of games. Yeah. He could take as much money out of there as he wanted and reset to show, hey man, you only had like five plays. Right. So there's only like a couple of bucks in there. Yeah, my EM downstairs has a counter. Yeah, most EMs I've seen do. It's like an EM style counter. Yeah. My EM does not have one, but it had one one time. Yeah, it could be something like that where, you know, you had it in shifty locations. Yeah. And he needed to prove what was going on, so why not? I'm assuming it's just, like you said, a second to start, so it probably just pulses it when the power goes through, and it's not a bad idea. You gotta keep people honest by force. Free Black Rose, by the way, did donate many parts to the Keeper Black Rose. It donated the Lockdown Bar, it downloaded the apron, and I need to talk to you, donated, downloaded, downloaded. Oh, you need to talk to me? And yeah, because I need to figure out how to get the ramp out. Uh-huh. Because it's got a nicer ramp. Which ramp? The scored looking one. Oh, okay. I'll show you how to get it out. I mean, it doesn't have that awesome custom repair on it. Yeah. That Eric did when it broke at Pinagogo, like four years ago. That Eric the Bro did. But yeah, it's just, you know, I figure I'll swap that out. Yeah, you know what? You just got to pull the playfield forward. Yeah. And then there's like two bolts and then it slides right out. It's not that I'll come over it's like 20 minutes. My lady is already looking really good. So yeah that thing that could be nice. The interesting thing about Freeblock Rose was it had some cabinet touch-ups and from 10 feet the cabinet looks amazing. But from six inches, from six inches yeah a little not so much but yeah from 10 feet. It's awesome. For a touch-up. Let's get it done and maybe we'll make it. I'll have Brian here brush the shit out of it someday. My point is that, you know, for a game like Black Rose, which, let's face it, is not an A-list game or anything like that... It is the supreme, most desired, lady pirate themed, valley, green, monkey movie game... The guy touched it up, it looks great from six feet, you know? Yeah, it looks really good. Yeah, no one's gonna have their nose up against it and go, you know, oh my gosh, I'm going to have my nose up against it, this looks like crap. That reminds me of something from The Stranger Things 3rd where people were like, The screen looks like crap when the power is turned off. Who's looking at the game with the power off? Yeah. Who cares? My TV looks beautiful. Yeah. It's gorgeous. People have been saying that about, well, the premium, they'll look terrible when the power's turned off. It's like, everybody will look at the game when the power's turned off and go, oh, the power's off. Oh, but it looks good when it's turned on. It's retarded. Let's just remember a lot of pinball fans are out of control. It's retarded. I don't care. Yeah. So anyway, I have an autistic son. I can get away with it. Even he says it. I have an autistic son. Anyway. You have an autistic son? Yeah, yeah, Malcolm. He's so autistic. True story. And then we're going to get on to the next topic. Malcolm, by the way, is a gangster. I love him. Malcolm is just, he's a righteous dude. Okay, Malcolm is 25 now. Is he? He's 25. Yeah, no, oh, wait. Yeah, he's 25. When he was about 10, he was doing, you know, You know, it's a little STEM-y stuff that autistics do with his fingers or whatever. And we're in the line at the grocery store, and of course Rusty goes, oh, our sons are autistic. Candy God, you can't make this up. The little young lady behind the counter goes, oh, I love art too. Oh dear God, make it stop. I just wanted to pat her on the head, give her a cookie, and go, there, there, honey, go lie down. So anyway, yeah, true story, man. And my wife and I are looking, and you guys all know Rusty, We just want to look to each other going, oh God. Save us. Anyway, Jamie, you had something you'd like to say. I'm autistic. Oh, are you really? You're on the spectrum. I did not notice, and I usually catch that pretty quick, because I've been around, you know. Lots of medication and therapy. Okay, all right. I wouldn't have noticed. No, I'm usually really good at catching on the spectrum. Your spine, you're forgiven. I know. Anyway, but that's okay. So are we going to talk about the podcastocalypse? Yeah! Yeah, we're going to go to that next. And, uh... I don't know if it's what you think it is. No, it's... I think it could be a good thing. Um, okay, so, um... Special One Lit Pinball Podcast, Head to Head Pinball Podcast, uh, the This Week in Pinball Podcast, not the website, just the podcast, Have all announced that they're gonna quit doing these podcasts.
    55:27
    They are all leaving the podcasting spectrum. Yeah, but they're also announced that in conjunction with some other people involved,
    55:38
    are gonna start, they're starting a network, a new multimedia network called the Pinball Network. Pretty simple. I guess they're gonna talk about pinball. So there's all these doing streaming and like oh god what's I can't think of that Dennis Kriesel from the Eclectic Gamers podcast Jamie you're familiar with that one right? I'm not really. They do mostly video games but they was talking about pinball too. Dennis Kriesel really good dude he's also often on this weekend pinball podcast. I think he's the official co-host. Yeah, yeah. And Zach is the host. Right. I think that he's the mastermind. He could. Like if you're familiar with what Zach Meny does, he's a distributor now. Right. But he ran, was it Straight Down the Middle? I think so, but he's doing Flip N Out streaming. With Greg Bone, right? I think so, yeah. And so, yeah, he had a podcast and then he became the host of this week's Pinball Podcast. Right. On-air-team on-air-team, broad-p Optical S immortal roots in the tv Guyern Kripzer4. he did pinball cribs which i liked it you've seen it but love it or hate it you know it was it was a thing it was pinball cribs uh and now he has the uh the flipping out streams which are some of the more impressive streams like they get huge hosts they have a set it's like monday night football but it's pinball uh so i think that this is probably mostly his creation yeah i can't back that up with anyone Well, it feels a lot like it's got from the mind of Zach Meny in it. Can somebody, anybody tell me who the pinball content provider, the website, I can't remember the name of the website now. Nobody can because, well, I guess he's involved with it too. I can't remember the name. Pinball Supernova? Thank you. That was it. Pinball Supernova. Yeah. And so he was going to shut his down at the same time because he just wasn't getting the hits or whatever. It's like, I feel you, brother, but you know, we keep going. But apparently they're going to start, I guess they're going to do streaming, and I guess they're going to do podcasting, and they got some other stuff up their sleeve too, that we don't know about. Now there's been a lot of people kind of ripping on Zach lately, because he's a distributor, and because he's a Stern distributor, he can't say anything negative about Stern on his podcast. Which I would say is probably true, because if few of you remember, if any of you remember, I certainly do, a few years ago when Nate Shivers was still doing his show on the regular, He had made a couple of comments about a Stern game, don't remember which one now, but the next week he apologized because I guess they ripped on him really bad. Oh, you can't say that, it's terrible. And we all know if you say anything negative about Stern on like Facebook or anything else, dude, they boot you hard. They banned you from their Facebook page. So and that's cool, but I know Zach is a good dude. I know several people who bought games from him who had issues and he's been really good So, don't give him grief, don't give these guys grief. They're doing something positive. And give them a chance to see what they got. I'm excited because we don't know what we're going to get yet, man. It's like a big surprise. We're going to open a box. It's going to be like Christmas except pinball. And, yeah, there's still like 30 other great pinball podcasts and Spencer's Podcast out there. I know. What surprises me is that people would dissolve their own podcasts for the sake of their own I know that people would dissolve their own podcast for the sake of another network. When my podcast and a few others decided to come in on the network, we kept our shows intact. And it was the fact that we had name recognition behind our shows, which I mean, you do something for a few years, you get some, you know, you get a reputation. Right. And it was that and a few of the other people that we were bringing in that really got our network, the Voice of Geeks network, to be in. And I think as we didn't dissolve our podcast, we just made ourselves a big podcasting weird ass dysfunctional family. You know how I feel about it? If like, if you want, if you really listen to these podcasts, and a lot of them I've fallen off on, but I don't know, I know Spencer listens to everything all the time. A lot of these podcasts, you know, they were getting right towards that two and a half, three year old mark. Yeah. The passion, I mean, it's not that they weren't doing a good job. They were technically probably better than ever. But maybe the passion was running out. Like, that's what it really felt like with Head to Head. Head to Head's the one that I listen to pretty regularly. And we talk about that a lot. Yeah, it was never the same after Ryan C. left. But Marty continued on. He brought in Joe. Him and Joe were doing a great job. But, you know, he was taking a break. He was taking a six-month sabbatical, and it just ended up becoming a permanent sabbatical And he involved in the Pinball Network probably in a capacity maybe he the Australian correspondent but I think that these guys maybe they were just ready to move on to the next thing the one that surprises me is special when like a special when lit those guys were still fairly new to the scene those guys seem really ambitious they were getting a lot of big interviews I mean they they located right in the heart of the pinball Did you settle in the compressor lab to try america's components with the best consumer safety Theater? John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, I don't know man. You can probably get a lot of Stranger Things pros for a good young kid these days. Is that blonde and blue eyed? You're right. Nice. I didn't know. Heck, I got a $10,000 offer on Alex two weeks ago. He's not even my kid. Yeah. But I also think that if you think about it, and I mean this is going to sound a little elitist, but it's like... I did it for $10,000. $10,000 bucks man. Wow. I'm rich. I'm buying an LE. I'm an LE. I can't believe it. I know the human body is worth at least 50 bucks in minerals. But a lot of the pinball podcasters are guys who it seems like their level of engagement in the hobby is about six years old. Like it really seems like that's the magic number. They've all been in the hobby for six years and you know, they got in the three year mark, they're probably at the height of their fandom and you know, maybe it's just, I mean Zach obviously turned it into a business, but like maybe, you know, a little bit of the shine is off the apple. They're coming to the 7 Year Itch. You got it. Yeah. Well, you know, March will be three years that I've been doing this show. Feels so much longer. Wow. I know. Like infinity. And beyond. Speaking of longer, though, how much longer until load up? Uh... Golden State Pinball Festival. 111 days until the Golden State Pinball Festival. Hooray! The premier pinball show in Lodi, California. On the West Coast as far as I know. You think we're bigger than California Extreme? As far as your pinball experience? Oh yeah. You know what, there's also those shows in Banning. Yeah, but you know what the deal with California Extreme is? You can play Tapper and Timber. And Journey. Did, um, he might still have it, I've talked to him forever. The guy's at California Extreme by the way. Tron guy. Oh yeah. Tron Guy. Mark Burschen, TJ. Not Mark Burschen, not TJ. He lives in Sacramento. No, I'm talking about the Cats guys. Yeah, Pat. Jeff Rogers? What is his name? Yeah, he's Tron Guy on pinsock. Bruce Boxliner. No, no, no, no. Yes. He used to come to league once in a while. Dylan. Dylan, thank you. Dylan. I haven't seen him for a while. Oh, Dylan Tron Guy? Yeah. He's back in league. He's in Folsom. Oh, okay, okay. The Thursday thing I think was... Okay, he used to have a... Yeah, because he used to have a Timber. Yeah, he used to have a Timber.
    63:53
    A fur pinball. The premieres February 10th. So be there. So be there, be square. Looking forward to it. I want to see what they're going to do. And I want to add one more thing. They put a news release out saying, hey, if you are producing content, whether it be video or audio, or are interested in doing so, drop us a line. Let us know what you got. So they're looking for new and other people. So it's not just, you know, oh, an old boys club and we're going to do this. We're inviting, openly inviting other people to jump in who maybe have been doing it for a while or maybe never done it before. So, which leads me to... Wait, wait, wait. So here's the question. Okay. Now I know we ain't joining up with that because we admire our independence. Yeah. But are they going to like Kaneda? Yeah, that's been brought up a lot. I don't think he would. I don't think... He's gonna be posted on Facebook. He's like, hey, what about me? What about the number one pinball podcast in the world? When I looked up the pinball network, the first thing that it redirected me to was SoundCloud and... Kaneda? Oh, really? Oh, wow. I wonder if Kaneda's on board. You know what? I don't know. I can't... I don't know, man, because he's... You know, I've been on his show on an episode sometime before I started my podcast. That's what kind of put me over the edge. Exactly. You know what? I actually like Kaneda online. I can make it through about 20 minutes of his podcast before I'm like, hey, you talked about this the previous 15 episodes. Yeah. But, you know, he's such a great figure in pinball media and what we do. It's just like, you gotta know what he's, you know, you gotta know. It's like Kanye. I don't listen to his music, but like, come on, man. What's that wacko gonna do next? I don't know. I'd pay real money if he would shut up. I view Kaneda as the Howard Stern of pinball podcasts. People that loved Howard Stern back in the day would listen to him for like 20, 30 minutes. People that hated him would listen to him twice as long, okay? Because they're like, what's he gonna say next? What's he gonna do I listen to every episode, most I get all the way through and I enjoy. Once in a while, if he's, like you said, if he's brought something up for the 45th time last month, I'll just, I'll turn it off. But rarely- But he's just clearly wrong, like, oh, Heart of the Caribbean, JJ, he sucks so bad. It's like, dude, what the fuck? Dude, if you haven't played a good one, um, yeah. It's like a calm Kanye West. I wouldn't see them accepting Kaneda in, because Kaneda is too much of a me, me, me, it's all me. He's a narcissist. And if you're trying to get a collective of people together to share one idea and make it as a group effort, that narcissistic personality is just not going to fit. Unless he proves to be the Robert Downey Jr. of the Avengers. No, that could be. Right. Well, I don't know what he wants to be. Jamie's like the clearest head here tonight. Yeah, see if he, you know... Bravo. He's on heroin a few times and then we can call him that. And maybe we just won it after we're done listening. There we go. Yeah, no, you guys make good points. So, are we ready for... Dan, you had something about reviews? Yeah, there's reviews. I can pull them up. Okay, so when I was asking some questions about the podcast before I came on, because, you know, I wanted to know... Oh, crap, I didn't want to play it. I wanted to know what I was getting into. I've been on a few podcasts that were not my own and I was like, okay, I'm interested, let me see what's going on. And so I looked up reviews. Do you want me to read the reviews? Yes, yes. Oh, you want me to read the reviews? Okay. Alright, these are some reviews on iTunes of the Spinners Lit Pinball Podcast. I missed the pinball podcast of yesterday. This is by Nobstone. This podcast is yet another example of how not to do a podcast. Audio is not mixed properly. Dogs and other annoying noises in the background. Okay, you're gonna pick on Bud who's now dead. My dog is dead. Because of you. We put him down. We didn't put him down. He actually died at home with people he loved. And when I go to edit this at the very beginning, I'm going to have a tribute to Bud. But no, I'm kidding. But no, Bud really did pass away. So yeah, dogs and other annoying noises in the background. People talking over each other. Guilty. And we've been really good about that tonight. And we're getting better. Nothing to add to the pinball hobby. I disagree with that statement, sir. But thank you for your honest opinion. As others in the pinball community have already noted, please stop podcasting and leave this to the pros. Sir, we've been very honest, we are not professionals. But we have funds to deal with it. Don't listen or listen. We have a charger phone so you will listen to every word that we say. We haven't charged you anything for this hour of quote unquote entertainment. You know what? I have to say my experience on this episode has been incredibly positive. Everyone's been great and everyone's contributed something. I think this has been an entirely enjoyable experience. Thank you. It hasn't felt too far off from an episode of my own podcast. Okay. Try listening to it.
    70:12
    Now, I have to say that Mr. Smush, Rob's cat, has become a bit of a joke because you can hear him this to me every day never 강 şark why there around on this jv please stop interrupting speaking always a great going say massacre hosting We're working on that. You know, we sat down and we had a meeting about what we like and what we want to change. So new this year, 2020, we're going to be making some positive changes. Hopefully you guys will enjoy them. And if you have, hey, even a critique, please email us at thespinnerslit at gmail.com. Oh, and a quick shout out to our sponsor, Chico's Bell Bonds. Let freedom ring. By the way, I told Spencer if he talked over me again, I was going to whoop his ass. Mattel off his ass. You a donkey too? Just Unbearable by Big Chun J. I wrote that one. Dogs barking, babies crying, there are no babies sir. Babies crying? I know. LOL, I'm sorry guys. That was me. Oh, I'm just busting balls. I'm sure they're nice people, but I'm out on this one. Well, you know what, maybe give us another chance sometime, or if not, God bless you for listening, man. You know he's listening. You know he is. You know he's listening. And again, you pick it on Bud, and Bud's dead. Well, that's the thing. The dogs died. We sold the babies off. So, you know, those dogs are gone. I would have never even looked for those because I don't... I have an Apple phone. I'm an Apple fanboy as far as the phones go. I guess I'm a fan. That's why my product's not over there. But I don't... I don't use iTunes at all. I don't use any of the i stuff. I mean, I do whatever I can that's free. If I have to pay for it, I'm not doing it. I feel. Folks, dozens and dozens of the Spinners Live podcast listeners, if you would like your review read live on the air, live recorded on the air, if you'd like us to read your words on the internet, please submit a review. And if you have a good time, please submit a good review. Yeah, and reach out to us, man. Email us. I'm not getting a lot of emails. But you know what? We run into somebody at a show or a gathering, a tournament, any kind of, you know, public, anywhere out where we're playing pinball or whatever, people come up and I always get positive comments, positive feedback. So again, if there's something you'd like to see or say, please stop doing that. Yeah, email us, man. TheSpinnerIsLit at gmail.com. Let's do shout outs and thank yous. Eric, since you were kind enough to host tonight, you want to start off? Hi-yo! Hey! I want to give a shout out to the people that submitted reviews. And I just wanted to say, hey, thanks for the honest critique. And if you're ever in Lodi at the show, it's coming up in May, come on out and play some pinball with us because we're all fans. Even if we don't agree on what we're talking about for games or what we're doing on the podcast, doesn't matter. We're all in the pinball thing together. Come on out and play some pin. Even if we suck at broadcasting. Even if. Oh man, yeah, you know, to be honest, once again, big thank you to Spencer for putting this all together. Thank you. It is a great way to get together every month. A big shout out, I don't know the operator's name, Alex knows it, of Uncle Vito's for putting a brand new Stranger Things- Chris and Dallas. Chris and Dallas for putting a brand new Stranger Things out there. They are right on top of the repair, so if you're in the Sacramento area and you want Check out Stranger Things, Uncle Vito's Pizzeria, it's fantastic pizza, amazing french fries. Those hot wing fries are wow. Yeah, mind blowing. Told you. And a great line of pins. Stranger Things, Jurassic Park, Deadpool, and Guardians of the Galaxy. Was there one more? That's it. And those ones. And that's a hell of a lineup to see in one place. So big shout out to them as well. And a big shout out to my lovely wife, who decided to come and experience the wonder of Pinball Podcast. Thank you for coming. Thank you for the lovely gift of the mixing board. I'm going to have fun learning how to do that and breaking stuff. It served Orange Lounge very well. We finally replaced ours with the USB version because we moved on to a Mac Mini. It still is in perfect condition and I hope that you can get a lot of these stuff. Thank you for getting it out of my house. There you go. Uh, yeah, uh, Uncle Vito's Pizza, that's at 1800 15th Street, Suite E in Sacramento, California. Um, basically right across the space. What's the cost of that? Yup. That's by Ace of Spades? Yeah, right across the street. Right across the street. Not the one on 16th. Yeah. Do not go to that one. No, they only have one game. Wait, I've heard that it's right across the street from the Ace of Spades. Yeah, right across the street from the Ace of Spades. The 16th Street one has Iron Maiden, right? No, it does not. I thought it did. No. Oh, it has no pinball. No pinball. 16th Street, no pinball. 15th Street, pinball. Pinball. Good pizza, great fries. The garlic fries were good, those hot wing fries were the bomb. I want the Thai fries. I haven't had those. I haven't had them either. We'll have to go back. We'll go back, we'll play Stranger Things because it's working again. Huzzah. It just doesn't have the rules. Say anything like the normal Thai fries are not really French fries. You're a Thai fry. What you got, Al? Shoutouts to everyone here. Shoutout to Jamie for coming. Thank you. Shout out to Jamie for coming here. Jamie, thank you Jamie. Shout out to Eric for hosting. Letting us come over to our house. We're just gonna go a little over an hour tonight. Good. I'm never leaving. I live here. It's been a great day.
    76:11
    Shout out to his Metallica looking like a cop siren every time it's in a track. I'm always scared. I see lights outside. That glass is so clean though. Yeah, I know right? It's so pristine. Brian? Brian K. Thanks to Eric for hosting. Thanks to the people who critique the podcast. You know, life sometimes is like a podcast. And you know, sometimes, like, life podcasts get a little dirty. And sometimes you gotta go into that podcast and you gotta clean it. And you gotta go through and fix it and get rid of the stuff that's ruined. And when that doesn't work, sometimes you go out through the window and you gotta say, Hey! This podcast is crappy as hell and I'm not gonna listen to it any longer! Yeah! And then come back next week to see if we've improved. And we have Stanley Sadowsky. You get the drink from the Firehose! Oh, there's something so very wrong with us. That was beautiful. If I may? Yes, please. I will be talking about my experience tomorrow live on Orange Lounge Radio. We're on Challenge Radio. We, again, broadcast live at twitch.tv slash VOG Network, like Voice of Geeks Network. Nice. 6 o'clock p.m. Pacific time. We go for about a three-hour train wreck. And I will be talking about my experience, giving you guys a big plug there as well. Awesome. I've already done a couple of plugs on my Twitter and my Instagram. I've got a lot of OLR followers on there. And I'll definitely, definitely talk to y'all. You're talking to y'all. Thank you. No, shame not. It's not a shameless plug. It's a great plug. And thank you for that. And just expect a lot of hate mail for people actually listening to our show. She's not ashamed. Mark, this is fake at warnetalkradio.com. Let me know everything you think. Awesome. Okay, guys. I think that's everything for tonight. Shout out. Oh, I got shout out. You know, I'm just kind of a- Shout out to our missing presence of Kendra. Yeah, shout out to- And the lovely Rusty Marianne. Yeah, Rusty just, she's still fighting off the crud. Not the same, but not Rusty. I know. And then, yeah, shout out to Kendra and everybody. You know what, man, I've just, I had to work today, so I'm just like in a fog. You work with a lot of Kendras. I do, I do. So no, well, I want to shout out to all the local operators, all the operators everywhere. Joe, Coin Op, Game Room, Dallas and Chris, Over at Retro, Steve Morell, and all the other local offices. Those guys, all of them, keep their games in fantastic condition, work really hard to make sure we have nice games on location to play in Sacramento and in the Bay Area, some of them. Um, and, uh, mine's just, uh, go out, support location pinball. Support pinball shows, support the streamers and the podcasters. I mean, if it's not with financial support, man, send a nice note, send an email. Send cookies. Give them an honest review. I love those reviews. I mean, because they were, I agree with everything on all of them, you know? It was like they were ripped from my very soul. Pretty much. Well, look... Any type of feedback, even if someone's being just a complete utter shit to you, you can find something constructive in it and use it to improve yourself, if it's not just for building your own resistance to the garbage on the internet. Right. You also can get, like, I'd say the one that was the long one, except for the little excerpt at the bottom of it, I actually thought was outlined and very succinctly spoken. Oh, absolutely. So that's the kind of feedback I think a podcast needs to grow and do better. I mean, I like to tell people this, that there is no growth without challenge. I even got feedback and I was on the fucking show. So pretty much, he's always on the show. Well I get feedback and you never listen. So go out, support pinball. If you love pinball, if you like pinball, support it. Support it on location, support the people that bring it to you, support the different media. Um, and, uh, you know, get involved in any way you like, you know, volunteer shows or whatever. Um, cause you're gonna be part of something real special. Anyway, that's, uh, episode 29. You guys know the words, say them with me. Play pinball. Keep America Strong!